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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnL on June 29, 1999, at 4:11:50
Has anyone tried this combination? There was a small study, put forth in a presentation by NYU, where Pindolol was paired up with either an SSRI, Buspar, or a TCA. Of the three groups, the TCA+Pindolol group was the worst, Pindolol + SSRI impressive, but Pindolol + Buspar the best and quickest. Greatest improvements were in core depressive symptoms of depressed mood and work/interest.
My family doc agree to a trial of this with me, especially considering my sensitivites and atypical responses to many other standard antidepressant approaches. If not as promising as it looks on paper, then Pindolol+Serzone also had a 90% success rate in another study with considerable improvement in the first week. I'm just curious, anyone else tried Pindolol+Buspar? Or how about Pindolol with another AD? Thanks. JohnL.
Posted by JohnB on June 29, 1999, at 14:43:04
In reply to Buspar + Pindolol?, posted by JohnL on June 29, 1999, at 4:11:50
JohnL:
No, I've never tried this combination nor have I been on either med individually. Pindolol is an interesting drug to study. I just read a study in Neuropharmacology (Vol 38, Iss 6 1999) indicating that pindolol seems to "increase(s) dialysate [extracellular] concentrations of dopamine and noradrenaline, but not serotonin, in frontal cortex of freely-moving rats." Pindolol is a partial agonist at 5HT-1A receptors, agonist and antagonist properties at 5HT-1A autoreceptors, a partial agonist at B-Adrenergic receptors and an antagonist at 5HT-1B receptors, a profile of action, the study suggests, that might influence the dopaminergic and adrenergic pathways. This appears to be a far more complicated profile than its indicated use for high blood pressure would suggest.
By the way, where can I read about the NYU info. you mentioned? Thanks for the great information.JohnB
Posted by JohnL on June 30, 1999, at 3:40:58
In reply to Buspar + Pindolol?, posted by JohnL on June 29, 1999, at 4:11:50
> Has anyone tried this combination? There was a small study, put forth in a presentation by NYU, where Pindolol was paired up with either an SSRI, Buspar, or a TCA. Of the three groups, the TCA+Pindolol group was the worst, Pindolol + SSRI impressive, but Pindolol + Buspar the best and quickest. Greatest improvements were in core depressive symptoms of depressed mood and work/interest.
>
> My family doc agree to a trial of this with me, especially considering my sensitivites and atypical responses to many other standard antidepressant approaches. If not as promising as it looks on paper, then Pindolol+Serzone also had a 90% success rate in another study with considerable improvement in the first week. I'm just curious, anyone else tried Pindolol+Buspar? Or how about Pindolol with another AD? Thanks. JohnL.JohnB, I was searching for augmentation strategies for treatment of depression when I came across this site at NYU. Check it out. http://www.med.nyu.edu.Psych/aug/index.htm
Posted by Elizabeth on July 2, 1999, at 4:30:07
In reply to Re: Buspar + Pindolol?, posted by JohnL on June 30, 1999, at 3:40:58
>http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/aug/index.htm
This is a great site! Thanks for posting it.
Posted by JohnL on July 2, 1999, at 15:13:41
In reply to Re: Buspar + Pindolol?, posted by Elizabeth on July 2, 1999, at 4:30:07
> >http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/aug/index.htm
>
> This is a great site! Thanks for posting it.Pindolol accidentally opened up a whole new world to me. I tried Buspar+Pindolol for 3 days trying to duplicate the research study at the site. I couldn't take it. Either alone is fine, but together, wow, like being hit by a train. BUT I discovered the Pindolol does indeed work FAST, but more important, it dampens the severe tinnitus caused by Buspar. I have been prevented from giving a good trial to St Johnswort, Wellbutrin, Buspar, MAOIs, and anything else that isn't a pure serotonin drug because of the severe tinnitus they cause. Loud, like a jet plane. The Pindolol almost eliminates it! Suddenly I have a whole new world of options. An antidepressant booster and tinnitus treatment simultaneously! Hey, this isn't just a new chapter, this is a whole new book!
Posted by Elizabeth on July 3, 1999, at 0:49:47
In reply to Re: Pindolol, antidepressant and anti-tinnitus., posted by JohnL on July 2, 1999, at 15:13:41
> Pindolol accidentally opened up a whole new world to me. I tried Buspar+Pindolol for 3 days trying to duplicate the research study at the site. I couldn't take it. Either alone is fine, but together, wow, like being hit by a train.
I don't get it - what happened?
>BUT I discovered the Pindolol does indeed work FAST, but more important, it dampens the severe tinnitus caused by Buspar. I have been prevented from giving a good trial to St Johnswort, Wellbutrin, Buspar, MAOIs, and anything else that isn't a pure serotonin drug because of the severe tinnitus they cause. Loud, like a jet plane. The Pindolol almost eliminates it! Suddenly I have a whole new world of options. An antidepressant booster and tinnitus treatment simultaneously! Hey, this isn't just a new chapter, this is a whole new book!
Wow! This is fantastic to hear. I wonder what causes it. Anyone happen to know?
Posted by JohnL on July 3, 1999, at 5:37:34
In reply to Re: Pindolol, antidepressant and anti-tinnitus., posted by Elizabeth on July 3, 1999, at 0:49:47
Elizabeth. First, thanks for all your posts. Great to always read your posts.Buspar+Pindolol what happened? I don't get it either. Extreme confusion, stupor, weakness. Such small doses too. 5mg-15mg Buspar, 2.5-7.5mg Pindolol. I have to work and function while getting on a medicine, and this wasn't working out. A real bad continuous hangover might have felt better. It works for others, but not me.
Theories on Pindolol and anti-tinnitus? All I know is that anything with noradrenaline action increases tinnitus for me. Pindolol blocks it. So without knowing exactly why, I think it would be accurate to conclude there is a definite flaw in my noradrenergic system, surely contributing to tinnitus and possibly to depression.
I am worried my initial relief will either not continue to improve more or will disappear. My greatest fear is going to bed after a rare good day (3 or 4 a year) and waking up to find it was stolen like a thief in the night. We all know what that's like! Maybe a very mild hypomanic reaction, maybe the drug is actually working but will fail soon. Not sure. I'm skeptical, because I've been fooled and disappointed way too often. But, we'll see. Nice to hear from you. JohnL.
Posted by Deb on July 3, 1999, at 9:53:43
In reply to Re: Response to Elizabeth, posted by JohnL on July 3, 1999, at 5:37:34
Could it be true? Is there really a drug, or combo of drugs out there that relieves tinnitus? I had a very large brain tumor partially removed in 1983, and had to have the whole left inner ear removed and sewn shut. Ever since then, I have a loud dishwasher-type noise in that deaf ear. I am currently taking Prozac for depression and Xanax for panic attacks. But if there's something out there that will let me hear blessed silence for the first time in 16 years, I'll try it. I was told right after my surgery that this kind of tinnitus is one of the major factors in suicides for post-op patients of my type. I laughed it off at the time, but believe me, I'm not laughing now! Any helpful information welcome.
Posted by JohnL on July 3, 1999, at 16:08:51
In reply to Re: Response to Elizabeth/Tinnitus? Help!, posted by Deb on July 3, 1999, at 9:53:43
> Could it be true? Is there really a drug, or combo of drugs out there that relieves tinnitus? I had a very large brain tumor partially removed in 1983, and had to have the whole left inner ear removed and sewn shut. Ever since then, I have a loud dishwasher-type noise in that deaf ear. I am currently taking Prozac for depression and Xanax for panic attacks. But if there's something out there that will let me hear blessed silence for the first time in 16 years, I'll try it. I was told right after my surgery that this kind of tinnitus is one of the major factors in suicides for post-op patients of my type. I laughed it off at the time, but believe me, I'm not laughing now! Any helpful information welcome.
Hi Deb. I don't think there is a cure for tinnitus, but there are several drugs which can lessen it drastically. Hypotensives (like Pindolol) are on a list of drugs to try. My tinnitus sounds like a jet plane taxiing down the runway. With Pindolol it sounds much quieter, very far away. A higher dose might work better, haven't tried, I don't know. This drug is a new one for me.
I researched a bit. These are used: hypotensives, antibiotics, vasodilators, fluoride, thyroxine. I don't know about any of them. The most reliable though is intravenous lignocaine, and that works even better when potentiated with a TCA antidepressant. Intravenous lignocaine though is more often used as a trial on tinnitus, because if it works, it is a good predictor that a mood stabilizer will do the same. Pretty neat huh? There is hope! I saw titles of research reports (no abstracts to read though!) that said Valproic Acid for Tinnitus.
Anyway, want to become an expert? Follow these steps:
- go to www.mentalhealth.com
- on the left side, choose HELP
- after it takes you there, again on the left choose SITE MAP
- after it takes you there, go to the right side and choose RESEARCH directly under DISORDERS
- after it takes you there, on the left choose a disorder, any, doesn't matter
- then, on the left click on ALL TOPICS, then at the bottom push SELECT
- Now you are where you want to be. BOOKMARK the page to get there easier next time.
- Finally, erase the name of the disorder you chose which is displayed in the box at the top of the page. Type in whatever you want to research. Try TINNITUS VALPROATE, or TINNITUS TREATMENT, or the names of the above mentioned drugs, or whatever.Hey, hope this helps! You'll probably know a whole lot more than your doctor. And if you are battling depression or bipolar, it looks like there is a connection with tinnitus and some of the same drugs might work. Check it out and best wishes for some sweet silence. JohnL.
- If anywhere along the way you get lost, just poke around looking for RESEARCH. It's a confusing site, but it's there somewhere.
Posted by Deb on July 3, 1999, at 16:49:12
In reply to Re: Drugs for Tinnitus, posted by JohnL on July 3, 1999, at 16:08:51
I am taking down all the names of the drugs you mentioned, and am going to that mental health site to start my own research. Thay way, I will be well-armed with info of my own when I next see my neuro doc. It's really true; we have to help ourselves as much as possible. The medical community just can't or won't keep up with all the advances in their areas. I feel hopeful for the first time in a long time. Thanks a million, Deb.
Posted by JohnL on July 4, 1999, at 9:08:43
In reply to Re: Drugs for Tinnitus/Thank you John!, posted by Deb on July 3, 1999, at 16:49:12
> I am taking down all the names of the drugs you mentioned, and am going to that mental health site to start my own research. Thay way, I will be well-armed with info of my own when I next see my neuro doc. It's really true; we have to help ourselves as much as possible. The medical community just can't or won't keep up with all the advances in their areas. I feel hopeful for the first time in a long time. Thanks a million, Deb.
Hi again Deb. I tried a simple word search of tinnitus just for grins and was astounded at what's available. The 1st two pages of an infoseek search had organizations that specialize in tinnitus and give info on all kinds of treatment, from drugs to devices similar to hearing aids to specialized counseling. A very recent report I noticed claims a definite link between the auditory part of the brain and the emotional part, supporting the theory that tinnitus and emotional disorders are related.Somewhere on the web at a place similar to Dr Bob's (maybe Ivan Goldberg? other? can't remember) a psychiatric hospital gave Meclizine for tinnitus and that usually took care of it. I could never find it again, and forgot the name of the drug, until I saw it listed on one of the infoseek search sites. I think it's over-the-counter. Anyway, there sure are a lot more options than I ever knew.
Each day I am amazed at how Pindolol reduces my tinnitus so drastically within an hour after dosing. Hope it keeps working. I hope you can find the treatment that works for you very soon. JohnL.
Posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 17:47:11
In reply to Re: Deb...More., posted by JohnL on July 4, 1999, at 9:08:43
> > I am taking down all the names of the drugs you mentioned, and am going to that mental health site to start my own research. Thay way, I will be well-armed with info of my own when I next see my neuro doc. It's really true; we have to help ourselves as much as possible. The medical community just can't or won't keep up with all the advances in their areas. I feel hopeful for the first time in a long time. Thanks a million, Deb.
>
>
> Hi again Deb. I tried a simple word search of tinnitus just for grins and was astounded at what's available. The 1st two pages of an infoseek search had organizations that specialize in tinnitus and give info on all kinds of treatment, from drugs to devices similar to hearing aids to specialized counseling. A very recent report I noticed claims a definite link between the auditory part of the brain and the emotional part, supporting the theory that tinnitus and emotional disorders are related.
>
> Somewhere on the web at a place similar to Dr Bob's (maybe Ivan Goldberg? other? can't remember) a psychiatric hospital gave Meclizine for tinnitus and that usually took care of it. I could never find it again, and forgot the name of the drug, until I saw it listed on one of the infoseek search sites. I think it's over-the-counter. Anyway, there sure are a lot more options than I ever knew.
>
> Each day I am amazed at how Pindolol reduces my tinnitus so drastically within an hour after dosing. Hope it keeps working. I hope you can find the treatment that works for you very soon. JohnL.I've researched tinnitus before because my father's had it for umpteen years. When gingko biloba first started showing up on the scene, they talked a lot about its treatment of tinnitus. Dad *did* notice a difference, but he unfortunately hasn't been reliable about keeping up with it.
Don't know if your case requires a stronger medication, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck!
Posted by Deb on July 5, 1999, at 10:48:27
In reply to Re: Deb...The natural route, posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 17:47:11
> > > I am taking down all the names of the drugs you mentioned, and am going to that mental health site to start my own research. Thay way, I will be well-armed with info of my own when I next see my neuro doc. It's really true; we have to help ourselves as much as possible. The medical community just can't or won't keep up with all the advances in their areas. I feel hopeful for the first time in a long time. Thanks a million, Deb.
> >
> >
> > Hi again Deb. I tried a simple word search of tinnitus just for grins and was astounded at what's available. The 1st two pages of an infoseek search had organizations that specialize in tinnitus and give info on all kinds of treatment, from drugs to devices similar to hearing aids to specialized counseling. A very recent report I noticed claims a definite link between the auditory part of the brain and the emotional part, supporting the theory that tinnitus and emotional disorders are related.
> >
> > Somewhere on the web at a place similar to Dr Bob's (maybe Ivan Goldberg? other? can't remember) a psychiatric hospital gave Meclizine for tinnitus and that usually took care of it. I could never find it again, and forgot the name of the drug, until I saw it listed on one of the infoseek search sites. I think it's over-the-counter. Anyway, there sure are a lot more options than I ever knew.
> >
> > Each day I am amazed at how Pindolol reduces my tinnitus so drastically within an hour after dosing. Hope it keeps working. I hope you can find the treatment that works for you very soon. JohnL.
>
> I've researched tinnitus before because my father's had it for umpteen years. When gingko biloba first started showing up on the scene, they talked a lot about its treatment of tinnitus. Dad *did* notice a difference, but he unfortunately hasn't been reliable about keeping up with it.
>
> Don't know if your case requires a stronger medication, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck!Thanks Jan! I'm going to check with my pharmacist tomorrow to see if ginko biloba is contraindicated with any of my meds. Wouldn't that be wonderful; to have something I can pick up right out of the vitamin/supplements section that might help lessen this awful noise? John has been so nice doing all that research, you people never cease to amaze me with your kindness and readiness to help others. I have tried meclizine on occassion for balance problems (darn brain tumor acting up again!) but didn't notice a difference in my noise level. Anyway, thanks again for this lead, I'm definitely going to check it out. Best to you, Deb.
Posted by Rick on November 3, 1999, at 19:08:52
In reply to Re: Deb...The natural route, posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 17:47:11
Interesting to run across this thread in an Alta Vista search. It talks about Pindolol as a tinnitus-fighter, while my experience has been *quite* different. It also talks about the purportedly powerful AD effects of Buspar and Pindolol taken simultaneously -- depression relief on par with Luvox, but with very rapid onset of relief.
I just DUMPED the Buspar+simultaneous Pindolol after 7 weeks, with one of the primary reasons being that my longtime mild-to-moderate tinnitus had turned into a 24/7 screeching racket! I guess we've got a MAJOR case of YMMV going on here!
I added Pindolol to my Klonopin regimen about three months ago, and my tinnitus remained its usual variable self. Then I added the Buspar -- a mere 7.5 mg morning and 7.5 mg at night, and the tinnitus became a lot louder and more persistent immediately. I kept expecting this side effect to subside, but "no go". I haven't read a lot about tinnitus, but my limited surfing kept turning up a
long-list of drugs which can cause tinnitus. Aspirin (which I started taking daily long before the Buspar) and Buspar were listed as among the top offenders. Several anti-hypertensives, including the very common beta blocker Lopressor/Toprol/Metoprolol, were on the list of possible tinnitus inducers.Now, my problem is Anxiety (esp. Social Phobia), not depression. I was doing great in that regard, but the Buspar+Pindolol side effects (tinnitus, dizziness,fatigue -- all much more bothersome at night) just wouldn't go away. And I wasn't sure the Buspar and/or Pindolol and/or purported beneficial interaction of the two meds were helping me. I theorized that the Pindolol (which DOES list tinnitus as a possible side effect in its official monograph) might be exacerbateing the Buspar tinnitus. Also, I thought the Pindolol might be causing my nightly, annoying weird dreams AND my dry, irritated eyes (both listed as possible side fx). So I dumped the Pindolol. Nope, no change in the racket. So about three days ago, I dumped the Buspar, too.
Well, the amplified 24/7 tinnitus stayed with me. And the last few days I noticed that the Klonopin didn't seem to be working *quite* as well as usual, so I popped half a 5 mg. Pindolol, and within 15 minutes I felt MUCH more relaxed. So, while I've never heard of Pindolol augmenting a Benzo, I'm beginning to think that the K+P was the key to how well I've been doing (i.e., 75-80% relief on K alone, 95% on K+P. And it certainly doesn't hurt that Pindolol's antihypertensive effects brought my BP and heart rate -- which moving back up to higher-than-desired levels -- back down. And I'm a *bit* more fatigued than when I was taking the K alone, but not nearly so much as when I was taking all three, and certainly not dizzy. Regardless, even though there's a lot of dispute about the benefits of Pindolol's unique mechanism's, I'm a fan. It's a cool med, alright.
Now a question: Does anyone know if drug-induced tinnitus is reversible?? I'm hoping that the worsened, relentless tinnitus is hanging around simply because it takes awhile to get all the Buspar out of my system (any thoughts on THIS aspect)? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Rick
Now, to my surprise, I sit here with screeching sounds in my head, check out Psycho-Babble for the first time in awhile, and read that Pindolol cancels out Tinnitus! Not for me, at least. But I sure do like it for other reasons. It is one cool med.
Posted by Rick on November 3, 1999, at 19:20:46
In reply to Hold the Boat!, posted by Rick on November 3, 1999, at 19:08:52
As usual when I post using WebTV (it hates text boxes), something gets screwed up. In this case, the last part of my post (after my signature) should be ignored.
BTW, I tried the Buspar+Pindolol combo for about seven weeks.> Interesting to run across this thread in an Alta
Vista search. It talks about Pindolol as a
tinnitus-fighter, while my experience has been
*quite* different. It also talks about the
purportedly powerful AD effects of Buspar and
Pindolol taken simultaneously -- depression relief
on par with Luvox, but with very rapid onset of
relief.
>
> I just DUMPED the Buspar+simultaneous Pindolol
after 7 weeks, with one of the primary reasons
being that my longtime mild-to-moderate tinnitus
had turned into a 24/7 screeching racket! I guess
we've got a MAJOR case of YMMV going on here!
>
> I added Pindolol to my Klonopin regimen about
three months ago, and my tinnitus remained its
usual variable self. Then I added the Buspar -- a
mere 7.5 mg morning and 7.5 mg at night, and the
tinnitus became a lot louder and more persistent
immediately. I kept expecting this side effect to
subside, but "no go". I haven't read a lot about
tinnitus, but my limited surfing kept turning up a
> long-list of drugs which can cause tinnitus.
Aspirin (which I started taking daily long before
the Buspar) and Buspar were listed as among the
top offenders. Several anti-hypertensives,
including the very common beta blocker
Lopressor/Toprol/Metoprolol, were on the list of
possible tinnitus inducers.
>
> Now, my problem is Anxiety (esp. Social Phobia),
not depression. I was doing great in that regard,
but the Buspar+Pindolol side effects (tinnitus,
dizziness,fatigue -- all much more bothersome at
night) just wouldn't go away. And I wasn't sure
the Buspar and/or Pindolol and/or purported
beneficial interaction of the two meds were
helping me. I theorized that the Pindolol (which
DOES list tinnitus as a possible side effect in
its official monograph) might be exacerbateing the
Buspar tinnitus. Also, I thought the Pindolol
might be causing my nightly, annoying weird dreams
AND my dry, irritated eyes (both listed as
possible side fx). So I dumped the Pindolol.
Nope, no change in the racket. So about three
days ago, I dumped the Buspar, too.
>
> Well, the amplified 24/7 tinnitus stayed with
me. And the last few days I noticed that the
Klonopin didn't seem to be working *quite* as well
as usual, so I popped half a 5 mg. Pindolol, and
within 15 minutes I felt MUCH more relaxed. So,
while I've never heard of Pindolol augmenting a
Benzo, I'm beginning to think that the K+P was the
key to how well I've been doing (i.e., 75-80%
relief on K alone, 95% on K+P. And it certainly
doesn't hurt that Pindolol's antihypertensive
effects brought my BP and heart rate -- which
moving back up to higher-than-desired levels --
back down. And I'm a *bit* more fatigued than
when I was taking the K alone, but not nearly so
much as when I was taking all three, and certainly
not dizzy. Regardless, even though there's a lot
of dispute about the benefits of Pindolol's unique
mechanism's, I'm a fan. It's a cool med, alright.
>
> Now a question: Does anyone know if
drug-induced tinnitus is reversible?? I'm hoping
that the worsened, relentless tinnitus is hanging
around simply because it takes awhile to get all
the Buspar out of my system (any thoughts on THIS
aspect)? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
>
> Rick
>
> Now, to my surprise, I sit here with screeching
sounds in my head, check out Psycho-Babble for the
first time in awhile, and read that Pindolol
cancels out Tinnitus! Not for me, at least. But
I sure do like it for other reasons. It is one
cool med.
Posted by Noa on November 3, 1999, at 20:27:58
In reply to Re: Hold the Boat!, posted by Rick on November 3, 1999, at 19:20:46
Everyone's different, but....
I had mild tinnitus from several SSRIs, but it went away when I discontinued the meds.
Posted by Rick on November 3, 1999, at 21:27:33
In reply to Re: med induced tinnitus, posted by Noa on November 3, 1999, at 20:27:58
Noa, what was the longest uninterrupted period of time you were on SSRI's?
> Everyone's different, but....
>
> I had mild tinnitus from several SSRIs, but it went away when I discontinued the meds.
Posted by jamie on November 4, 1999, at 2:45:21
In reply to Hold the Boat!, posted by Rick on November 3, 1999, at 19:08:52
I saw a list of drugs known to cause tinnitus. Buspar was listed as "frequent". I found Pindolol helped quiet things down, but it is too short acting to be much help. If the tinitus is drug related, it should eventually (2-3 weeks) quiet down on its own once the offending drug has been removed.
Posted by Noa on November 4, 1999, at 3:43:05
In reply to Re: Hold the Boat!, posted by jamie on November 4, 1999, at 2:45:21
Rick, I guess the longes uninterrupted period of time that I was on an SSRI was about two years.
This is the end of the thread.
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