Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 7087

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Serzone and rage...again

Posted by Phil on June 5, 1999, at 20:45:21

Since starting Serzone a few months ago, my life is slowly coming back...sort of. My problem now is the same as Ruth's, hostility! I also take Ritalin and Klonopin and have been getting out more and am anxious to see friends again.
But I have a hair-trigger temper and get really pissed-off! I am laid back by nature.
I am taking 2mg Klon. a day. Should I up that to 3mg?
Or should I just begin the taper on Serzone and get ready to get fat, lazy and apathetic on another SSRI?
I feel I have been a trooper with AD's but I am getting really f**king tired of this. Thanks, Phil

 

Re: Serzone and rage...again

Posted by anne on June 5, 1999, at 23:00:23

In reply to Serzone and rage...again, posted by Phil on June 5, 1999, at 20:45:21

More Klonopin is probably not the answer. I don't know how long you've been on Klonopin but anger was one of the side-effects I had early on with Klonopin. I've heard that nursing homes sometimes have problems with patients on benzos getting mean.

I had this idea when I started taking Klonopin that it would be pleasant and make me mellow. In reality it made me feel dead and increased depression the longer I took it.

Take care . . .

 

Re: Serzone and rage...again

Posted by ruth on June 7, 1999, at 7:31:39

In reply to Serzone and rage...again, posted by Phil on June 5, 1999, at 20:45:21

Phil,

can totally relate, unfortuately. Had a terrible
weekend. Lots of crying, lots of feelings like I
wanted to pummel people with my fists. (I too am
normally pretty down to earth and laid back).
Criminy. I feel like I should at least give this
drug two weeks, but don't know if I can stand it.
Maybe I just don't know how to deal with my emotions
anymore after 4 years on emotion numbing prozac.
I don't know. I'm f@@@ing tired of it too--I"ve
been trying to find the right AD for 9 months now
and I'm totally worn out, frustrated, depressed and
angry that I have a disease that's so catch 22.
Can't live on the drugs, can't live off. I know
I have to come to peace with this and accept it,
but right now I seem stuck in a most unfruitful state
of mind of "why me?". I know I'll probably get
back on some apathy producing ssri and I won't feel
mad anymore, in fact, I wont' feel much of anything.
And that thought pisses me off too. But what am
I gonna do? Walk around feeling like my life is
worthless 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
arughghghg!!
(by the way, one of the things I did like about
serzone, despite all the other really horrible
stuff, was that I didn't feel social trepidation)

 

Re:Serzone and rage....again Med change??

Posted by Jr. on June 7, 1999, at 10:30:25

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...again, posted by ruth on June 7, 1999, at 7:31:39

> Phil,
>
> can totally relate, unfortuately. Had a terrible
> weekend. Lots of crying, lots of feelings like I
> wanted to pummel people with my fists. (I too am
> normally pretty down to earth and laid back).
> Criminy. I feel like I should at least give this
> drug two weeks, but don't know if I can stand it.
> Maybe I just don't know how to deal with my emotions
> anymore after 4 years on emotion numbing prozac.
> I don't know. I'm f@@@ing tired of it too--I"ve
> been trying to find the right AD for 9 months now
> and I'm totally worn out, frustrated, depressed and
> angry that I have a disease that's so catch 22.
> Can't live on the drugs, can't live off. I know
> I have to come to peace with this and accept it,
> but right now I seem stuck in a most unfruitful state
> of mind of "why me?". I know I'll probably get
> back on some apathy producing ssri and I won't feel
> mad anymore, in fact, I wont' feel much of anything.
> And that thought pisses me off too. But what am
> I gonna do? Walk around feeling like my life is
> worthless 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
> arughghghg!!
> (by the way, one of the things I did like about
> serzone, despite all the other really horrible
> stuff, was that I didn't feel social trepidation)

Phil,
Sounds like maybe you should call your doc and just
be a little frank that maybe the Serzone isn't the right
medication for you.
It may take quite awhile to find the right medication or
combinations of medications depending on your diagnosis.
You may need to try a mood stabilizer something mild to help
while working on finding a medication that is right for you.
And there is always your input. You know what medications you
have tried and what the side effects were. That should help
your doc in making some choices medication wise.
If not maybe time to move on to a different doctor to get
the help you need. We've all been through this and it does
take time but that is one good thing you can come here and
talk and seek some advice from people going through the
same things. Good Luck.

 

Re: Serzone and rage...again-Ruth

Posted by Phil on June 7, 1999, at 13:26:45

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...again, posted by ruth on June 7, 1999, at 7:31:39

> Phil,
>
> can totally relate, unfortuately. Had a terrible
> weekend. Lots of crying, lots of feelings like I
> wanted to pummel people with my fists. (I too am
> normally pretty down to earth and laid back).
> Criminy. I feel like I should at least give this
> drug two weeks, but don't know if I can stand it.
> Maybe I just don't know how to deal with my emotions
> anymore after 4 years on emotion numbing prozac.
> I don't know. I'm f@@@ing tired of it too--I"ve
> been trying to find the right AD for 9 months now
> and I'm totally worn out, frustrated, depressed and
> angry that I have a disease that's so catch 22.
> Can't live on the drugs, can't live off. I know
> I have to come to peace with this and accept it,
> but right now I seem stuck in a most unfruitful state
> of mind of "why me?". I know I'll probably get
> back on some apathy producing ssri and I won't feel
> mad anymore, in fact, I wont' feel much of anything.
> And that thought pisses me off too. But what am
> I gonna do? Walk around feeling like my life is
> worthless 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
> arughghghg!!
> (by the way, one of the things I did like about
> serzone, despite all the other really horrible
> stuff, was that I didn't feel social trepidation)

>>Ruth,

Thanks for your reply. I have an appt. w/ my psychopharmacologist in two hours. I really have liked Serzone til I found out everyone at work was getting scared shitless of me!:0
My store had a very good month sales wise-assholes always seem to do better in business. Just my opinion.
What input I get from my doc I will immediately share with you. Some of the AD's I have been on for the last 14 years are:amitryptaline, doxepin,
tranxene, vivactil, zanax, prozac, zoloft, paxil,
luvox, effexor, wellbutrin, ritalin, klonopin and a few others I've probably forgotten. If the doc has no rabbit to pull out of the hat, I'm getting on SJW and signing up for yoga about 6 nights a week! Although I believe I will need meds and at this point don't have much faith in SJW for me.
This past year, with all the so-called advances in this area of medicine, has been hell for me.
William Styron 's book mentioned that he just did six months in the hospital to cure his depression. Wish common people had that option.
Good luck, Ruth...I will be in touch.

Phil

 

Re: Serzone and rage...again-phil

Posted by ruth on June 7, 1999, at 14:41:32

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...again-Ruth, posted by Phil on June 7, 1999, at 13:26:45

>
>Phil,

I cracked up when I read that you had a pharmo
appointment in 2 hours! I have an appt. with
a doctor in less than an hour! (i'm not laughing
that you're feeling so miserable--just the absurdity
of having your brain chemistry jerked around--the
craziness of it just strikes me, b/c I'm feeling
so similarly).
You've certainly tried alot of stuff. I thought
about it today--how alot of us in this newsgroup
have struggled with how hard it is to change medicines
and trying to find the right one. I wonder if it's
more difficult than it used to be because there
are so many different options now, and also the
newer drugs seem to have shorter half lives which
makes the withdrawals so much more intense. (?)
Please do share whatever you find out today.
I'm going to ask my hmo to refer me to a psychiatrist
b/c so far all this experimentation has been with
a regular practicioner--a different one each time.
I really feel like I need some specialized attention
on this issue. I'll let you know how it goes with
the doc. today too. I still feel unsure if I
shouldn't give serzone more time (it's only been
a week), and sometimes I take it and feel better,
sometimes I take it and swear I feel worse. I'm
really confused. I thought today that maybe I
should try taking it at the exact same time of
the day, that maybe b/c of the short half life causes
me to go through little mini-withdrawals between
doses? I know I'm grasping at straws. The bottom
line is I aint no psychiatrist and I need one to help
me answer my questions...
Look forward to hearing from you--Ruth


>

 

Re: Serzone and rage...Ruth

Posted by Phil on June 7, 1999, at 16:38:39

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...again-phil, posted by ruth on June 7, 1999, at 14:41:32

> >
> >Phil,
>
> I cracked up when I read that you had a pharmo
> appointment in 2 hours! I have an appt. with
> a doctor in less than an hour! (i'm not laughing
> that you're feeling so miserable--just the absurdity
> of having your brain chemistry jerked around--the
> craziness of it just strikes me, b/c I'm feeling
> so similarly).
> You've certainly tried alot of stuff. I thought
> about it today--how alot of us in this newsgroup
> have struggled with how hard it is to change medicines
> and trying to find the right one. I wonder if it's
> more difficult than it used to be because there
> are so many different options now, and also the
> newer drugs seem to have shorter half lives which
> makes the withdrawals so much more intense. (?)
> Please do share whatever you find out today.
> I'm going to ask my hmo to refer me to a psychiatrist
> b/c so far all this experimentation has been with
> a regular practicioner--a different one each time.
> I really feel like I need some specialized attention
> on this issue. I'll let you know how it goes with
> the doc. today too. I still feel unsure if I
> shouldn't give serzone more time (it's only been
> a week), and sometimes I take it and feel better,
> sometimes I take it and swear I feel worse. I'm
> really confused. I thought today that maybe I
> should try taking it at the exact same time of
> the day, that maybe b/c of the short half life causes
> me to go through little mini-withdrawals between
> doses? I know I'm grasping at straws. The bottom
> line is I aint no psychiatrist and I need one to help
> me answer my questions...
> Look forward to hearing from you--Ruth
>
>
> >Ruth,

My doc suggested, because of the really short half-life of Serzone, to take my nightly dose as usual but during the day take 50mg am, 50mg noon,
50mg about 4pm. If this doesn't help, next week I'll probably start (Zolimp) I mean, ahem...Zoloft. I took Zoloft several years ago but I don't think I gave it a very good go.
I wish I could get frequent flyer miles for every script I get, no, I don't have plastic.
Shit,
Phil

 

Re: Serzone and rage...Ruth

Posted by JohnL on June 7, 1999, at 19:14:02

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...Ruth, posted by Phil on June 7, 1999, at 16:38:39

> > >
> > >Phil,
> >
> > I cracked up when I read that you had a pharmo
> > appointment in 2 hours! I have an appt. with
> > a doctor in less than an hour! (i'm not laughing
> > that you're feeling so miserable--just the absurdity
> > of having your brain chemistry jerked around--the
> > craziness of it just strikes me, b/c I'm feeling
> > so similarly).
> > You've certainly tried alot of stuff. I thought
> > about it today--how alot of us in this newsgroup
> > have struggled with how hard it is to change medicines
> > and trying to find the right one. I wonder if it's
> > more difficult than it used to be because there
> > are so many different options now, and also the
> > newer drugs seem to have shorter half lives which
> > makes the withdrawals so much more intense. (?)
> > Please do share whatever you find out today.
> > I'm going to ask my hmo to refer me to a psychiatrist
> > b/c so far all this experimentation has been with
> > a regular practicioner--a different one each time.
> > I really feel like I need some specialized attention
> > on this issue. I'll let you know how it goes with
> > the doc. today too. I still feel unsure if I
> > shouldn't give serzone more time (it's only been
> > a week), and sometimes I take it and feel better,
> > sometimes I take it and swear I feel worse. I'm
> > really confused. I thought today that maybe I
> > should try taking it at the exact same time of
> > the day, that maybe b/c of the short half life causes
> > me to go through little mini-withdrawals between
> > doses? I know I'm grasping at straws. The bottom
> > line is I aint no psychiatrist and I need one to help
> > me answer my questions...
> > Look forward to hearing from you--Ruth
> >

I remember reading somewhere that serzone has a very sensitive and narrow therapeutic window, which varies from person to person. I remember seeing a chart that showed how serzone was therapeutic up to a point, but beyond that point it was counter-therapeutic. I've been so many places on the net studying I can't remember where I saw it. And it doesn't seem to be widely known. The trick with serzone is to move up slowly and stay at each increased dose for 2 or 3 weeks before moving up again. If you start feeling better, don't be in a hurry to move up more, you might actually ruin it. Fine-tune that narrow window of opportunity. Having said that, I didn't know this until after I too had a lousy time with serzone, probably because I moved up too fast in dose. I swear I got more depressed with each dosage increase. It wasn't my imagination, and it wasn't my depression, it was definitely the drug. It's hard to find anyone happy with serzone. Have to admit though, I had good sleep and great sex on it, and I miss that. Days were terrible though. Despair, lethargy, apathy. I took notes on my feelings on serzone, and it scares me now to review them and see how far gone I was. But like I said, I think I approached this finicky drug all wrong. And I suspect most everyone else is too. By the way, "Zolimp"...good one! Take care, hang in there, seems we all learn together. JohnL.

 

Re: Serzone and rage...phil

Posted by ruth on June 8, 1999, at 7:23:53

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...Ruth, posted by Phil on June 7, 1999, at 16:38:39

> > >
>Phil,

Thanks for making me laugh (Zolimp) :-D!
I hope the new way of dosing helps some. I
definately notice a difference in mood from
when I take 50 mg's at a time rather than 100
at a time (I like taking the smaller doses better).

Keep me updated :-)

As for me, I went to the doc. and he is indeed
going to refer me to a psychiatrist. Until then
I'm going to try and give the serzone a chance.
Another poster said maybe it was withdrawal from
the other med and that could be true.

 

Re: Serzone and rage...johnL

Posted by ruth on June 8, 1999, at 7:31:24

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...Ruth, posted by JohnL on June 7, 1999, at 19:14:02

John,

thanks for your post, makes me feel a lot less
crazy. I really WANT the drug to work b/c of
the good sleep and sex, so I'll give it some time
I think you might be on to something with the
dosage stuff--the day I felt the absolute worst
was when I followed my doctor's instructions to
increase the dose after 3 days. I think I was
feeling ok, just taking 5o mg's in the morning
and 50 more at night. Then I took 100 mg's all
at once and felt freaked out! So I've gone back
down to that really low dose and I think I'll try
staying here for awhile. I think I tend to take
lower doses of these sorts of drugs (I did best on
10 mg's of Celexa).
Who knows, you definately made some great observations
I found really helpful. My emotions are definately
unpredictable, but some weird part of me gets off
on this b/c I've been so emotionally even keel on
prozac and it bothered me. I also, on this drug,
tend to ramble on! (Normally I'm a quiet woman of
few words, but now i'm blah, blah, blah, gab gab
gab, on and on)
What have you found works for you?

 

Re: Serzone and rage...Ruth

Posted by Phil on June 8, 1999, at 18:34:19

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...phil, posted by ruth on June 8, 1999, at 7:23:53

> > > >
> >Phil,
>
> Thanks for making me laugh (Zolimp) :-D!
> I hope the new way of dosing helps some. I
> definately notice a difference in mood from
> when I take 50 mg's at a time rather than 100
> at a time (I like taking the smaller doses better).
>
> Keep me updated :-)
>
> As for me, I went to the doc. and he is indeed
> going to refer me to a psychiatrist. Until then
> I'm going to try and give the serzone a chance.
> Another poster said maybe it was withdrawal from
> the other med and that could be true.

>> Best of luck, Ruth...
Phil

 

Re: Serzone and rage...again-phil

Posted by Meg on November 2, 1999, at 22:35:37

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...again-phil, posted by ruth on June 7, 1999, at 14:41:32

Hi-

I'm new to this and I suffer from depression w/anxiety. I just started on Serzone six days ago at a 50mg dosage. The first full day I felt better than I have in years. I laughed, I smiled, I felt great. The next day it was like I crashed. Then I started getting tension in my neck and irritable which caused a tension headache. This went on for three days. It seemed like I was having withdrawl symptoms but from what? It allows more seretonin and norepinephrine in your brain so that doesn't make sense. I have felt calmer overall, energetic but I have been having a problem concentrating and focusing at work the last two days. I didn't have any tension today at all which was good. I'm getting tested for ADD, not the hyperactive kind, the inattentive, easily distracted kind. May be this is exacerbating those symptoms. Hell, I don't know. I have been feeling like doing more things that I enjoy so that makes me happy. Give it some time. I've been yelling at my family for three days which I hope will pass. I'm keeping a journal and writting down how I feel each day to show to my doctor in two weeks and let her decide whether I should continue with this or switch. I tried prozac about 5 years ago for a month and it made me wacky so I stopped taking it and haven't taken anything since. Was a very bad experience and I guess I needed time to get over it before I could trust someone again to prescribe for me.

I wish all of you good mental health. Hang in there.

 

Re: Serzone and rage...again

Posted by Refractory on November 3, 1999, at 23:36:26

In reply to Serzone and rage...again, posted by Phil on June 5, 1999, at 20:45:21

> Since starting Serzone a few months ago, my life is slowly coming back...sort of. My problem now is the same as Ruth's, hostility! I also take Ritalin and Klonopin and have been getting out more and am anxious to see friends again.
> But I have a hair-trigger temper and get really pissed-off! I am laid back by nature.
> I am taking 2mg Klon. a day. Should I up that to 3mg?
> Or should I just begin the taper on Serzone and get ready to get fat, lazy and apathetic on another SSRI?
> I feel I have been a trooper with AD's but I am getting really f**king tired of this. Thanks, Phil

Why are you on Ritalin? Do you have ADD or some similar problem? If not I suggest you get off the Ritalin soon. Same story with Klonopin. Why do you need that stuff? If the Serzone is working effectively for you, creating a robust antidepressant effect, WHY do you need Klonopin and benzo type drugs? Drop both Ritalin and Klonopin and see what happens.

If the hostility goes away after you drop those two meds, you will know what the problem is. If the hostility does not go away however, your anger might be a type of hypomania...possibility of maybe type 2 bipolar disorder(hypomanic). Hopefully, this will not be the case.

 

Re: Serzone and rage-that was June

Posted by Phil on November 4, 1999, at 6:22:45

In reply to Re: Serzone and rage...again, posted by Refractory on November 3, 1999, at 23:36:26

> Refractory,
> Those posts were a few months back and I've changed meds a few times since then.
I see a psychopharmachologist and, with my homework on meds and his extensive knowledge, I trust him.
Serzone was causing the rage and was a totally useless AD for me. It had no side effects but most of the water I drink has no side effects either. Thanks for your input.

Phil


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