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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saint james on November 3, 1999, at 1:25:33
I generally avoid ? about MAOI's because I have never taken them, so I have not read about them. However I understand there are some that don't have the "cheeze reaction". perhaps they are called reversable MAOI's ? Anyone know about them, are they used in the states ?
james
Posted by JohnL on November 3, 1999, at 3:17:29
In reply to MAOI's, posted by saint james on November 3, 1999, at 1:25:33
> I generally avoid ? about MAOI's because I have never taken them, so I have not read about them. However I understand there are some that don't have the "cheeze reaction". perhaps they are called reversable MAOI's ? Anyone know about them, are they used in the states ?
>
> jamesHi James. You probably already know this, but Selegiline at 15mg or less (+ -) is void of the cheeze reaction. The reversible MAOI is Moclobemide. There is another similar one too. The name escapes me. Both are in other countries. Not USA. Moclobemide seems to be the most popular reversible MAOI. No cheeze reaction.
Moclobemide primary inhibits MAOs of serotonin and NE, with about 30% inhibition of dopamine MAO.
It is not available in USA. But if a person can make the initial visit to a Canadian doctor, it can be prescribed and purchased in Canada and brought back to USA. After that initial visit, the doc can also fill out special paperwork that allows the prescription to be filled by mailorder and legally sent across the border. The Canadian doc has to be involved with special Customs paperwork. This wouldn't help you much, because I know you live way far away from Canada. Don't know if it's available in Mexico. I would think it is, but not sure.
The easiest way for someone to get Moclobemide is to order from an overseas mailorder pharmacy. I know of a couple companies that sell it.
Posted by saint james on November 3, 1999, at 5:11:55
In reply to Re: MAOI's, posted by JohnL on November 3, 1999, at 3:17:29
> > I generally avoid ? about MAOI's because I have never taken them, so I have not read about them. However I understand there are some that don't have the "cheeze reaction". perhaps they are called reversable MAOI's ? Anyone know about them, are they used in the states ?
> >
> > james
>
> Hi James. You probably already know this, but Selegiline at 15mg or less (+ -)James here...
Nope, I did not ! i have read very little on MAOI's since james=cheeze and many aged products.
Moclobemide sounds intresting. It is probably sold in mexico, I could do some checking (In live in New Mexico) I have bought meds in Mexico when my #@$% HMO Rx card did not work even though i was paid up and I had a major sinus infection, but that i
Posted by Elizabeth on November 3, 1999, at 12:47:12
In reply to Re: MAOI's, posted by JohnL on November 3, 1999, at 3:17:29
> Hi James. You probably already know this, but Selegiline at 15mg or less (+ -) is void of the cheeze reaction. The reversible MAOI is Moclobemide. There is another similar one too. The name escapes me. Both are in other countries. Not USA. Moclobemide seems to be the most popular reversible MAOI. No cheeze reaction.
Two others that are available in some places (though less widely) are toloxatone and brofaromine. What I have heard about moclobemide mostly suggests that it's very hit-or-miss and that it just doesn't work as well as the irreversible, nonselective MAOIs, in general. This is why I haven't bothered trying it (too much hassle for something that might not even be worth it).
Reversibility just means that the MAO can be "recaptured" -- it's not effectively destroyed by moclobemide. When a molecule of phenelzine, say, hits MAO, they interact in such a way as to turn the MAO into something completely different that will no longer function as an enzyme.
> Moclobemide primary inhibits MAOs of serotonin and NE, with about 30% inhibition of dopamine MAO.
The more common names for these two are MAO-A and MAO-B. Tyramine is an MAO-B substrate; because moclobemide only has a modest affinity for MAO-B, it's easily displaced by tyramine.
> Don't know if it's available in Mexico.
It might be, under the brand name Aurorix.
Posted by JohnL on November 3, 1999, at 15:25:01
In reply to MAOI's, posted by saint james on November 3, 1999, at 1:25:33
Just a follow up on Elizabeth's post. She's right that Moclobemide has a questionable hit or miss reputation. I've read literature from both sides of the fence. And I've looked at all the clinical studies. A general conclusion seems to be that the poor results were in the low-average dose range. The good results were in the max range and even a bit higher. It seems to be a drug that needs the dose maxed out to be real good. But with its very tolerable side effect profile maxing the dose isn't such a big deal like it would be with many other meds.
So in general, the response of Moclobemide seems to be hit or miss primarily depending on the size dose.
Posted by Adam on November 3, 1999, at 18:15:20
In reply to Re: MAOI's, posted by Elizabeth on November 3, 1999, at 12:47:12
I have heard that brofaromine also seems to be a bit less robust than the irreversible and nonselective inhibitors of MAO. Check out this reference:
Neuropsychopharmacology 1999 Mar;20(3):226-47
Meta-analysis of the reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type A moclobemide and
brofaromine for the treatment of depression.Lotufo-Neto F, Trivedi M, Thase ME
Instituto de Psiquiatria da Faculdade de Medicina da Universidade de Sao Paulo, Brazil.
I wonder if there is any work being done on an irreversible inhibitor of MAO-A. Since MAO-B metabolism of tyramine is sufficient to protect against the
pressor effect of tyramine (of any severity), what's so great about reversibility? Is it not possible to design a molecule such that it covalently binds
MAO-A but has little or no affinity for MAO-B? Maybe not. I've just wondered if moc.'s lackluster performance for some patients is due to the fact that
it is "reversible" in its binding to MAO-A, or to its lesser effect on MAO-B (and thus dopamine and methylelthylamine).Also, can tyramine not displace moc. from MAO-A at all? Just curious.
> > Hi James. You probably already know this, but Selegiline at 15mg or less (+ -) is void of the cheeze reaction. The reversible MAOI is Moclobemide. There is another similar one too. The name escapes me. Both are in other countries. Not USA. Moclobemide seems to be the most popular reversible MAOI. No cheeze reaction.
>
> Two others that are available in some places (though less widely) are toloxatone and brofaromine. What I have heard about moclobemide mostly suggests that it's very hit-or-miss and that it just doesn't work as well as the irreversible, nonselective MAOIs, in general. This is why I haven't bothered trying it (too much hassle for something that might not even be worth it).
>
> Reversibility just means that the MAO can be "recaptured" -- it's not effectively destroyed by moclobemide. When a molecule of phenelzine, say, hits MAO, they interact in such a way as to turn the MAO into something completely different that will no longer function as an enzyme.
>
> > Moclobemide primary inhibits MAOs of serotonin and NE, with about 30% inhibition of dopamine MAO.
>
> The more common names for these two are MAO-A and MAO-B. Tyramine is an MAO-B substrate; because moclobemide only has a modest affinity for MAO-B, it's easily displaced by tyramine.
>
> > Don't know if it's available in Mexico.
>
> It might be, under the brand name Aurorix.
Posted by Adam on November 3, 1999, at 18:25:08
In reply to Re: MAOI's, posted by Adam on November 3, 1999, at 18:15:20
Oops. Sorry, I think it's phenylethylamine, not methylethylamine. That stuff in chocolate, whatever it is. (Don't know how I got methyl- screwed up with phenyl-...)
Um, Dr. Bob? Could we have a correction feature? My memory ain't so good these days...
> I have heard that brofaromine also seems to be a bit less robust than the irreversible and nonselective inhibitors of MAO. Check out this reference:
>
> Neuropsychopharmacology 1999 Mar;20(3):226-47
>
> Meta-analysis of the reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type A moclobemide and
> brofaromine for the treatment of depression.
>
> Lotufo-Neto F, Trivedi M, Thase ME
>
> Instituto de Psiquiatria da Faculdade de Medicina da Universidade de Sao Paulo, Brazil.
>
> I wonder if there is any work being done on an irreversible inhibitor of MAO-A. Since MAO-B metabolism of tyramine is sufficient to protect against the
> pressor effect of tyramine (of any severity), what's so great about reversibility? Is it not possible to design a molecule such that it covalently binds
> MAO-A but has little or no affinity for MAO-B? Maybe not. I've just wondered if moc.'s lackluster performance for some patients is due to the fact that
> it is "reversible" in its binding to MAO-A, or to its lesser effect on MAO-B (and thus dopamine and methylelthylamine).
>
> Also, can tyramine not displace moc. from MAO-A at all? Just curious.
>
>
> > > Hi James. You probably already know this, but Selegiline at 15mg or less (+ -) is void of the cheeze reaction. The reversible MAOI is Moclobemide. There is another similar one too. The name escapes me. Both are in other countries. Not USA. Moclobemide seems to be the most popular reversible MAOI. No cheeze reaction.
> >
> > Two others that are available in some places (though less widely) are toloxatone and brofaromine. What I have heard about moclobemide mostly suggests that it's very hit-or-miss and that it just doesn't work as well as the irreversible, nonselective MAOIs, in general. This is why I haven't bothered trying it (too much hassle for something that might not even be worth it).
> >
> > Reversibility just means that the MAO can be "recaptured" -- it's not effectively destroyed by moclobemide. When a molecule of phenelzine, say, hits MAO, they interact in such a way as to turn the MAO into something completely different that will no longer function as an enzyme.
> >
> > > Moclobemide primary inhibits MAOs of serotonin and NE, with about 30% inhibition of dopamine MAO.
> >
> > The more common names for these two are MAO-A and MAO-B. Tyramine is an MAO-B substrate; because moclobemide only has a modest affinity for MAO-B, it's easily displaced by tyramine.
> >
> > > Don't know if it's available in Mexico.
> >
> > It might be, under the brand name Aurorix.
Posted by Adam on November 4, 1999, at 0:01:59
In reply to Re: MAOI's, posted by Adam on November 3, 1999, at 18:25:08
OK, so humour me...
The reason I caught my "methylethylamine" mistake (and then wracked my drug-addled brain for the right name) is that there's no such thing. That's a bad name for
propylamine. So I'm driving home and I think, well, propylamine could be 1- or 2-propyl amine. So then I think, pheylethylamine could really be 1- or 2- phenyl-
ethylamine (though I may be committing a nomenclature error here, too). Anyway, phenylethylamine ought to have two isomers where they phenyl and amino group are
either on the same carbon of the ethyl part or not. So I figure one is the love molecule and the other is, what, a hallucinogenic aphrodisiac or something?I'm sorry, wearies, but where else could I ask?
> Oops. Sorry, I think it's phenylethylamine, not methylethylamine. That stuff in chocolate, whatever it is. (Don't know how I got methyl- screwed up with phenyl-...)
>
> Um, Dr. Bob? Could we have a correction feature? My memory ain't so good these days...
>
Posted by Diane on November 4, 1999, at 14:12:07
In reply to Re: MAOI's (weary alert), posted by Adam on November 4, 1999, at 0:01:59
http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/chemistry/pc/moclobemide.html
"I suffered severe depression, and doctors refused to prescribe moclobemide to me at first, so I looked up the patent and
made me some. " by Psycho Chemist
Posted by MARKED on January 20, 2004, at 5:58:58
In reply to Re: MAOI's, posted by Adam on November 3, 1999, at 18:25:08
Yes, named Aurorix in other countries as well as Manerix. Roche pharmaceuticals makes it. Available very easily in Australia. Pity the U.S. won't approve it (but maybe soon I hear). I think Manerix is a generic brand of it.
> > > > Don't know if it's available in Mexico.
> > >
> > > It might be, under the brand name Aurorix.
>
>
Posted by MARKED on January 20, 2004, at 6:04:09
In reply to Re: make your own Moclobemide, posted by Diane on November 4, 1999, at 14:12:07
Would be good if we all could make our own legal drugs......I mean the government literally feeds it's society so much of it's own unhealthy versions of things, that it then taxes and regulates.
> http://rhodium.lycaeum.org/chemistry/pc/moclobemide.html
>
> "I suffered severe depression, and doctors refused to prescribe moclobemide to me at first, so I looked up the patent and
> made me some. " by Psycho Chemist
This is the end of the thread.
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