Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 14280

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by JohnL on October 31, 1999, at 3:23:13

I don't think I believe in astrology. Not sure. But sometimes I think there might be something to it. That's because my father, a retired surgeon, used to tell me emergency rooms were the most hectic on full-moon nights. And that a reliable jump in psychiatric admissions happened on or near a full-moon.

As the moon's gravity moves entire oceans in the form of tides, I wonder if it has biological implications on the body as well.

Anyone with astrology theory to comment?

Also - just for grins - it might be interesting to see a random sample of what astrology sign we all belong to. I would suspect there is no trend, that mental illness falls randomly in all the astrological signs. But I guess there is the remote possibility of some relation. Just curious. Me, I'm a Libra. How bout you?

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by saint james on October 31, 1999, at 6:35:46

In reply to Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by JohnL on October 31, 1999, at 3:23:13

I do beleive that when you are born effects presonality and development. Open the book to Taurus and it describes me to a tee.

j

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by Junco Partner on October 31, 1999, at 8:02:08

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by saint james on October 31, 1999, at 6:35:46


You might be interested in these views of astrology & full moons:

http://skepdic.com/astrolgy.html

http://skepdic.com/fullmoon.html
(if you scroll down on this one, there's a link to a study of full moons & emergency room admissions, too.)

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by Shock the Monkey! on October 31, 1999, at 11:04:58

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by Junco Partner on October 31, 1999, at 8:02:08

Come on, guys! It's true, earth-life would be very
different without the gravitational effect the moon,etc.
And maybe because of this and differences in sunlight
during conception, birth, whatever people are affected in
some way (a REAL stretch). But astrology?

I think "20/20" aired a show about this spielcus. Although I don't
remember the details, some psycho-researcher and John Stossel
gave groups of persons tests on their personalities which he said
would be analyzed using astrological methods (huh?) and the results
returned to them. During the discussion following, all marveled at
the accuracy of the analysis of "their" personality. But hahah,
each person got the identical analysis, which was actually of Ted Bundy.

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. to JohnL.

Posted by Carol on October 31, 1999, at 11:26:40

In reply to Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by JohnL on October 31, 1999, at 3:23:13

>Me, I'm a Libra. How bout you?
>

JohnL--I'm a Pisces and very much like the descriptions (when they say, "lives in a dream world", they ain't half kiddin!)
But my brother, who has a character disorder(untreated,because the major sympton is thinking it is everyone else who has a problem!) is a Libra too. Connections? Might need a much larger sample base to really ascertain.

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by Judy on October 31, 1999, at 11:33:13

In reply to Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by JohnL on October 31, 1999, at 3:23:13

>
> Anyone with astrology theory to comment?
>
Really interesting topic! Nobody can sway my belief that astrology, or at least the moon, affects the tides within us (What's our physical makeup - about 90% fluid?). Just drive in traffic during a full moon! Or ask my friend, a maternity RN - their rule of thumb is "three days before & three days after" as for full moon labor room traffic.

I'm a Cancerian (also known as a Moon Child). I can tell you on any given day of the month what phase the moon is in - it affects me that much!

So, John, no pattern emerging yet. Maybe you need to fine tune a bit more - certain mental illnesses affect certain astrological signs more? (Maybe an element thing? Fire, Earth, Air, Water?) You're a Libra (Air) - your Dx? James is a Taurus (Earth) - I believe he's ADD + ? (My daughter's a Taurus as well - she's OCD). I'm a Cancer (Water) - diagnosed as [quoting here] "Dysthymic at best/Major Depressive the rest of the time"

Whaddya think?

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. (To Judy).

Posted by Carol on October 31, 1999, at 11:47:41

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by Judy on October 31, 1999, at 11:33:13

>
> So, John, no pattern emerging yet. Maybe you need to fine tune a bit more - certain mental illnesses affect certain astrological signs more? (Maybe an element thing? Fire, Earth, Air, Water?) You're a Libra (Air) - your Dx? James is a Taurus (Earth) - I believe he's ADD + ? (My daughter's a Taurus as well - she's OCD). I'm a Cancer (Water) - diagnosed as [quoting here] "Dysthymic at best/Major Depressive the rest of the time"
>
> Whaddya think?


Judy--interesting, I have the same diagnosis as you and am also a water sign(Pisces), maybe the start of a pattern?
Carol


 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry.

Posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 15:30:16

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. (To Judy)., posted by Carol on October 31, 1999, at 11:47:41

My personal favorite guide is You Were Born On A Rotten Day. Amazon.com ranks this book at 375,663 ... pretty good for something that's been out of print for at least a decade.

I have always found Rob Brezny's Real Astrology to be far more enlightening than any other column, particularly since he's a fellow moonchild.

But when push comes to shove, I do have to put astrology right down there with the Myers-Briggs inventory in terms of its applicability ... when you cast your net broadly, you tend to pull in a lot of fish.

Bob

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by M on October 31, 1999, at 15:53:43

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by Judy on October 31, 1999, at 11:33:13


The moon's gravity doesn't affect the ocean because the ocean is made of water, it affects the ocean because the ocean is so HUGE!

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by Judy on October 31, 1999, at 16:22:47

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by M on October 31, 1999, at 15:53:43

>
> The moon's gravity doesn't affect the ocean because the ocean is made of water, it affects the ocean because the ocean is so HUGE!

Thanks, M - I'll try to remember that.

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry--Bob

Posted by Noa on October 31, 1999, at 16:56:17

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry., posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 15:30:16


> But when push comes to shove, I do have to put astrology right down there with the Myers-Briggs inventory in terms of its applicability ... when you cast your net broadly, you tend to pull in a lot of fish.

OK, Bob, now you are really spooking me. I though I was the only vehemently anti-Myers/Briggs person around. Guess it really is the baby brain bin again. Years ago, a consultant came to a day care center I was working at, following a major upheaval that split the staff into angry factions. As part of the "healing" process, we did a seminar on working with all types of people, etc. Of course, we were given the Myers-Briggs. Well, I was the only one who actually read the preface of the material we were given, the part that describes how this tool was normed (I believe it was about a handful of white, male university professors). And I seemed to be the only one who had difficulty with the forced dichotomies, and the fact that a variation in score of a few points would tip you into the opposite characteristic, even if you were almost exactly in the middle. The other people were thrilled with the descriptions, felt they described them to a T. I read a few of them and could see how suggestive they were, how one could possibly identify with several different types.
Sincerely,
PFJSNIE......

 

Myers-Briggs, Disraeli, and the Moon

Posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 20:02:17

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry--Bob, posted by Noa on October 31, 1999, at 16:56:17

> ... The other people were thrilled with the descriptions, felt they described them to a T.

Hmmm ... mine fit me to an INFP.

Myers-Briggs is another great exemplar of "lies, damned lies, and statistics." (My apologies to all the MB fans out there)

As for the moon and the ocean, let's set the record straight. The moon's pull on the ocean has nothing to do with its size. If that were the case, given that our atmosphere has a far greater volume, we would be sucking fumes at "low tide." The moon's gravitational pull on something on the Earth has everything to do with that something's mass (just dealing with classical Newtonian gravitation, folks). Since most rocky material is more dense (mass per unit volume) than water, the moon has a bigger pull on that stuff. Being rocky, tho, it ain't going to deform the way a fluid will.

So, in the end, it's the nature and behavior of fluids that allows the moon's gravity to create noticable tides.

And now for something completely different, we return you to our regularly scheduled thread: Astrology and Psychology.


While I may not feel that astrology has any empirical merit, I can't deny that for a lot of people it is a very important belief system. In psychology, sometimes belief systems are more important than empirical reality, particularly if understanding the behavior of the believers is your goal.

Bob

 

Re: Myers-Briggs, Disraeli, and the Moon

Posted by Noa on November 1, 1999, at 6:58:53

In reply to Myers-Briggs, Disraeli, and the Moon, posted by Bob on October 31, 1999, at 20:02:17

Defiintely off the subject, but Bob, have you ever thought about going on jeapordy? You have a very ecelectic fund of knoweldge.

 

"I'd like Psychiatry and Astrology for $100"

Posted by Bob on November 1, 1999, at 7:53:32

In reply to Re: Myers-Briggs, Disraeli, and the Moon, posted by Noa on November 1, 1999, at 6:58:53

> Defiintely off the subject, but Bob, have you ever thought about going on jeapordy? You have a very ecelectic fund of knoweldge.

Yeah ... maybe one of these days.

You know, something just hit me ... does anyone know of any studies that have actually used any psychological tests and analyzed the results by the subject's sign? birth chart? Anyone have access to PsychINFO on-line who could check?

Just curious...
Bob

 

Psychiatry and Astrology (Along Bob's lines...)

Posted by Carol on November 1, 1999, at 10:42:53

In reply to "I'd like Psychiatry and Astrology for $100", posted by Bob on November 1, 1999, at 7:53:32


> You know, something just hit me ... does anyone know of any studies that have actually used any psychological tests and analyzed the results by the subject's sign? birth chart? Anyone have access to PsychINFO on-line who could check?
>
> Just curious...
> Bob


What about past lives? Anybody think(like me, sometimes, when I'm fixating on "why me?") that this depression thing is payback for some really horrendous Karma?
Carol

 

Re: Psychiatry and Astrology off the subject

Posted by Noa on November 1, 1999, at 12:28:57

In reply to Psychiatry and Astrology (Along Bob's lines...), posted by Carol on November 1, 1999, at 10:42:53

Hey, Bob, did you happen to see today's Cathy comic strip?

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion.

Posted by Sean on November 1, 1999, at 15:47:16

In reply to Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by JohnL on October 31, 1999, at 3:23:13

> I don't think I believe in astrology. Not sure. But sometimes I think there might be something to it. That's because my father, a retired surgeon, used to tell me emergency rooms were the most hectic on full-moon nights. And that a reliable jump in psychiatric admissions happened on or near a full-moon.
>
> As the moon's gravity moves entire oceans in the form of tides, I wonder if it has biological implications on the body as well.
>
> Anyone with astrology theory to comment?
>
> Also - just for grins - it might be interesting to see a random sample of what astrology sign we all belong to. I would suspect there is no trend, that mental illness falls randomly in all the astrological signs. But I guess there is the remote possibility of some relation. Just curious. Me, I'm a Libra. How bout you?

Sean (an Aries) here.

Well, Astrology is not to be taken seriously in my
opinion. The time of year may very well have an
inpact on personality and affective disorder
rates, but my bet would be with hormonal cycles
in the mother which are mediated by sunlight,
diet, temperature, etc... which vary in annual
cycles.

To me Astrology is the ultimate in Anthrocentric
thinking. Like pre-Copernican thought, which
showed the *earth* as the center of the universe,
astrology has the gall to put the *individual* at
the center of the universe. One of the major
themes over the last 1000 years of human thought
and culture has been in precisely the opposite
direction however. As in, we are not only not
the center of the universe, but a fairly common
type of system in a non-descript galaxy among
billions of galaxies...

I don't mean to offend anybody, but if I believe
in astrology, what next? Satanic possession?
Crystal power? I mean, by what process could I
bifurcate wheat from chaff in the infinite sea
of subjective belief systems. I can't.

And what happens to astrology a million years from
now when all the stars have shifted position due
to the fact that everything is in motion. The
anthropormorphic shapes we see in the sky now will
not be there in the future. What if an enormous
asteroid takes knocks one of the planets out of
stable orbit?

Also, unlike most people who believe in astrology,
I actually know the constellations and can point
them out on a clear night. Once you look at these
objects with a telescope and become intimate with
the night sky, you feel very moved by the beauty
of the moons of Jupiter, rings of Saturn, the
Swan Nebulae, M31, etc... and these objects become
part of the real world and not the object of a
wishful projection.

No, I can't back Astrology kids. Sorry.

But that's very Aries of me isn't it. Ha ha ha !!!

 

There is a whole book on this subject

Posted by LD on November 2, 1999, at 7:58:13

In reply to Astrology and Psychiatry. Theoretical Discussion., posted by JohnL on October 31, 1999, at 3:23:13

There has been a whole book written on this subject titles "Signs of Mental Illness: An Astrological and Psychiatric Breakthrough" by Dr. Mitchell E. Gibson. I just bought it the other day so have not had the time to read it yet. It is all the planetary forces that can have an effect on you, not just your sun sign. He basically discusses how from looking at charts of the depressed and the not depressed, that the depressed people have certain things in common, more conjuncts and squares of planets. It is too hard to explain it all here, and its really not the place to go into an astrological tutorial.

But for anyone who may be interested in further reading on the subject, it seems very interesting. I for one, believe in it, and do astrology as a hobby. How can we not believe that the position of planets have an effect on us the moment we a brought into this world? Being energy ourselves, and the universe being so full of magnetic feilds, and other energy forces, how can their pull not have an effect on *our* energy? Anyway, JMHO.

BTW- Aquarius sun, Scorpio moon, Gemini Rising.

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Pattern?

Posted by katie on November 2, 1999, at 14:14:50

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. (To Judy)., posted by Carol on October 31, 1999, at 11:47:41

> >
> > So, John, no pattern emerging yet. Maybe you need to fine tune a bit more - certain mental illnesses affect certain astrological signs more? (Maybe an element thing? Fire, Earth, Air, Water?) You're a Libra (Air) - your Dx? James is a Taurus (Earth) - I believe he's ADD + ? (My daughter's a Taurus as well - she's OCD). I'm a Cancer (Water) - diagnosed as [quoting here] "Dysthymic at best/Major Depressive the rest of the time"
> >
> > Whaddya think?
>
>
> Judy--interesting, I have the same diagnosis as you and am also a water sign(Pisces), maybe the start of a pattern?
> Carol


************I think not. I'm an aries w/ sagitarius rising. Go figure.

 

Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Pattern?

Posted by Bob on November 4, 1999, at 9:16:31

In reply to Re: Astrology and Psychiatry. Pattern?, posted by katie on November 2, 1999, at 14:14:50

I'm a moonchild, and I hear that's supposed to me I'm a bit overprotective of my friends and loved ones ... but I don't think it really shows ....

;^)
Bob


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