Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 13880

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Re: hospitalization

Posted by Noa on October 25, 1999, at 21:57:06

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by el on October 25, 1999, at 19:17:24

Nowadays, I see two basic reasons for hospitalization: safety and major medication overhauls/observations.
Safety: the hospital will keep you from hurtin yourself (or others, for that matter) if needed.

Meds: Sometimes someone needs such a sudden/drastic change in meds that doing it in the hospital makes the best sense because they need to be watched while the transtitions happen. Or, observations/testing of some sort is needed for psychiatric or combination of psychiatric/medical problems, until a stable med/other treatment regime can be in place.

Why do you think you need to be in the hospital? Would a day treatment center/partial hospitalization program be helpful?

When I went to the hospital about 15 years ago, it was at the beggining of managed care, before they were pushing people out after 24 hours. Still, the treatment in hospital was minimal. It was a place to keep me from acting on my suicidal feelings. I basically admitted myself because I was afraid I might actually carry out my plans. It was not a fun experience. It was a blow to my dignity, the way patients were treated--nothing like cuckkoos nest or anything, but still, major barrier between the staff and us lowly patient. They took away our shoes, and gave us goofy slippers that had, of all the %$^#&^ things, HAPPY FACES on the toe end of the shoe, looking up at us!!! OK, some hospitals might actually have some better care, but I agree with the previous poster who talked about the wish to be taken care of (I had that too, since I wasn't able to take care of myself) and was very disillusioned by the reality that you don't have your wish fulfilled in the hospital.. I guess myu other wish was to get away from myself and that certainly doesn't happen (Wherever you go, there you are, damn it). For me, though being disillusioned by the hospital experience helped me to see that I had to do something to start getting better. No one else was going to provide the "Magic" to make me better. Of course, a decade later, I was WHALLOPPED again with more depression, and harder to treat this time.

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by jamie on October 26, 1999, at 3:15:43

In reply to hospitalization, posted by allison on October 25, 1999, at 18:34:55

> Maybe this is a stupid question. I'm fairly new to this board and have not seen much about it (I suppose I should check the archive -- back to stupid and Wellbutrin, I guess.)
>
> I've never been hospitalized. I've sometimes wondered if I should be. I think my pdoc has sometimes thought the same thing, and has at certain times (unless I'm paranoid) suggested it without saying it outright. But he hasn't insisted. Not yet.
>
> I guess I'm wondering when does one know one needs to go there? Or does one ever know? And what happens?

Suicidal thoughts. Dangerous behavior. Out of control schizophrenia. Out of control mania. Basically anything so severe it may cause loss of life or drastic consequences. A hospital stay is designed to regain stability so as to continue with outpatient treatment safely.

 

Re: hospitalization-off subject...Noa

Posted by Phil on October 26, 1999, at 7:03:57

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by Noa on October 25, 1999, at 21:57:06

> Noa,

Happy face slippers???!!!! Wonder what genius thought of that? Does a sales rep sell those to the hospital? Oh, by the way, I have these happy face slippers for your depressed people.
Should have slippers with embroidered razor blades-we do have a sense of humor, you know!

Phil

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by allison on October 26, 1999, at 10:27:15

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by Noa on October 25, 1999, at 21:57:06

> Why do you think you need to be in the hospital? Would a day treatment center/partial hospitalization program be helpful?

Thanks, Noa.

A little over a year ago, my husband left for another woman and my mother died unexpectedly within a two week period. I already was being treated for major depression, so of course, this made things even harder. I plunged myself into work, because as I told my pdoc, it was all I had left. I have no other family except for my dad, and he and I don't often see eye to eye.

I ran away for holidays like Christmas, but found, as you say, that I could not escape from myself. My pdoc added drugs, then spring came and the grief subsided some. Things weren't great, but were a little better. I went on a good vacation in August with a friend, but the effects didn't last long after I got back.

Now it's getting dark again -- outside, inside. Bracing for another long winter and on edge about the holidays, figuring I'll just stay home this year. My aunt has invited my dad and me for Christmas, but they haven't been getting along lately and I don't want to be a part of that situation so far away that I couldn't leave (I live in NY, they live in Wash. State). I also just sold my mother's house, which has been in my family for five generations (since 1897). The closing is next month. I feel really badly about losing that, although there really wasn't a choice. My divorce is about to be final. My husband of 13 years will be married again within a few weeks. Work is chaotic and is eating me up.

In short, things are closing in. I think of suicide all of the time. I wish and pray myself dead at night, just to be buried next to my mom. I am getting insecure again, thinking that I cannot handle my job and that pretty soon, somebody's going to come into my office and fire me. I worry constantly about things I've said or done (or not done or not said). Last Monday I got up and got dressed for work, but became so overwhelmed that I called in sick and went back to bed. I've never done that before. I think about just quitting my job and going home to bed, but that scares me. I write in my journal all of the time, hoping to expunge some of the bad feelings, but it isn't working.

I have some friends, but they all are married and have lives of their own. They were very supportive initially, but now they're back to their own lives and problems.

I guess I thought maybe hospitalization might be some respite, but I see now that it's not an answer because there really is no escape from life and especially self.

I count the days until my next weekly appointment with my doctor, who gets on me for not taking time off, but the thought of spending time off alone doesn't feel good, and in the end, I know I'll just be back in the same situation.

I don't know what partial hospitalization or a day program would be like. I don't know anything about them.

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by Brandon on October 26, 1999, at 11:32:08

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by allison on October 26, 1999, at 10:27:15

>
> I guess I thought maybe hospitalization > I don't know what partial hospitalization or a day program would be like. I don't know anything about them.

Hi Allison,

Many of us here have felt this way before and the only reason we are still here is because we toughed it out (not to make light of your situation), where I live there are several psychiatric hospitals that have outpatient care programs. They have peer counselors and programs that help, but the most important (in my opinion) is that you are with people who care and others that are in similar situations. The worst thing you can do in depression is isolate yourself...thats when your thought procesess start to trick you. I do live in a university town so I'm not sure if you have many psych hospitals where you live but I think it would definitely help.

Hope this helps...Brandon

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by allison on October 26, 1999, at 12:10:24

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by Brandon on October 26, 1999, at 11:32:08

Thanks for writing, Brandon.

I know I'm in a hole. I've been here before and have toughed it out, as you say. I'm just awfully tired.

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by dove on October 26, 1999, at 12:53:59

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by allison on October 26, 1999, at 12:10:24

I think it is time for you to seek immediate help. This time of the year is the beginning of the big 'down' as I like to call it. Holidays completely destroy me, even without any expectations from family or relatives, without any negative or stress-inducing factors, it is still the hardest time of the whole year, every year for me. I can read your tiredness all over your post. You seem to be sick of fighting? I have a tendancy to view death as an enshrouding warm sleep. NO! Don't fall into that deception okay.

When you are too tired to fight then it is time to seek outside help. You cannot close yourself off to the outside world because everything gets all distorted and suddenly you're all alone with no one to catch you. You know if you're close to the end with no options presenting themselves to you. That is the time to go for help. If you need someone there to guide you or carry you because you're too tired then please seek help, even if you're scared of being hospitalized, it is still better than losing all hope.

Please let us know how we can help,
dove

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by Adam on October 26, 1999, at 16:24:35

In reply to hospitalization, posted by allison on October 25, 1999, at 18:34:55

Hospitalization:

You might want to check out my posts in the "Selegiline for Depression" thread, just for the long story,
if you're interested. I sound a bit, I don't know, arrogant in some parts, but it's my story.

Anyway, hospitalization can be of benefit IF, I think, you get yourself into a good place. I have been
to only one inpatient psych unit, and then only once, in what is probably one of the top ten hospitals in
the whole world. And even THEN there was much to be desired. But also much to benefit from.

One is a feeling of safety.
Two, they may try ECT. I'm not advocating ECT, but if they use it, you're better off doing it inpatient
first time around, I think.
Three, you can potentially get hooked up with some good people and
some good referrals. It is, basically, a good way to network.

I can't really think of any other major advantages to the hospital. It isn't a magical place where your
cares will be erased. You won't come out as improved as, say, somebody who got a broken leg set.

But I'll say it again: it gave me access to names of good people. I went to the best hospital I could
get into with my insurance, got some references, and ditched the therapists and doctors I had been working
with before. The doc I was working with before I got into the hospital litarally called me while I was
in the hospital to tell me he didn't think we should be working together any more (f-ing weasel). My therapist,
told me she did CBT when I agreed to start working with her. She never even completed a certification course
in CBT, and never made it the focus of our work. To get help before I went through the huge list of names
in the back of my HMO Provider list, found some names that looked nice or were convenient or I don't know
what and just went to these people hoping for the best. Just because somebody has an MD or a PhD does not
mean that they are intelligent, caring, up to date, competant, or anything else. You know how the joke goes:
What do you call the top med. student in his class: Doctor. What do you call the bottom med. student in
his class: Doctor! There aren't many ways to research a potential doctor or therapist, and if you're in
bad emotional shape, with only so many visits alotted for a year, you don't have time to screw around. You
need good help, and you need it fast.

So if you are considering hospitalization, I would say this: research the hospital. Find the best one you
can that will take your insurance, go there, and get some good referrals for people who can follow you afterward.
It is so worth it.

-Adam

> Maybe this is a stupid question. I'm fairly new to this board and have not seen much about it (I suppose I should check the archive -- back to stupid and Wellbutrin, I guess.)
>
> I've never been hospitalized. I've sometimes wondered if I should be. I think my pdoc has sometimes thought the same thing, and has at certain times (unless I'm paranoid) suggested it without saying it outright. But he hasn't insisted. Not yet.
>
> I guess I'm wondering when does one know one needs to go there? Or does one ever know? And what happens?

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by Bob on October 26, 1999, at 16:35:34

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by Adam on October 26, 1999, at 16:24:35

Allison,

Your story sounds so familiar...my best friend, who is also a double-l Allison ;^), went thru just about the same stuff that you've been thru.

You said you're in NY. Anywhere near NYC? I'm in Manhattan, and if you're around here I can help you do some of that hospital research Adam suggested (I know people who know people, that sort of thing). Even if you're upstate somewhere (how does NYC get the other 99% geographically of NY to call itself that?), I could probably get you some good information. Send me email if you want to chat about this.

Like Dove said, we're heading into the bleak season. Better to grab the Beast by the horns than let it get to you first.

Be well,
Bob

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by niko on October 26, 1999, at 20:28:23

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by el on October 25, 1999, at 19:17:24

>i must admit that i have to agree to a voluntary check-in before
you get petitioned by your family. that is what happened to me....they
had it with my mood swings, suicide attempts, etc...even though i am under
psychiatric care, there are those moments when you have just about had
enough....i also had a house fire about this time and was off work
due to major recurrent depression, anxiety, and OCD...when i wouldnt
come out of the hotel room that i was staying in cuz the house was being
fixed, my mother and grandmother had me "committed"....yes the wonderful
family did it to me......although it was for my own good, i believe
that i could have been alot more successful if i had taken the advice of
the psych and considered inpatient.....i had a way of deceiving him into
thinking i was ok...when i was actually at my worst...so if you are even thinking
about going into inpatient care, you might just want to go and see what they
have to offer....if you do it voluntarily, you can always leave when you
want...that wasnt the case for me....take care of yourself....

niko

 

Re: hospitalization--((((((ALLISON)))))

Posted by Noa on October 26, 1999, at 21:40:23

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by niko on October 26, 1999, at 20:28:23

Allison, you are thinking a lot about suicide, that is a good reason to look into hospitalization. You and your therapist can get a consult at the hospital, ie see what they say about whether hospitalization might help you at this point. "Toughing it out" is not a good approach for you right now. You are clearly in crisis, with a TON of major stressors.
Partial hospitalization/day treatment means you don't stay in the hospital but you go every day (some people go 2 or 3 days a week either right from the start, or gradually) for intensive treatment--individual, group, job counseling, resource help,etc. It provides structure if you are having difficulty coping with life. I think it would be wise for you to see what a hospital might offer. I worry that your preoccupation with death and joining your mother is a major sign of risk. In any case--ONCE A WEEK THERAPY IS NOT ENOUGH RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE IN CRISIS. What you are talking about is what hospitalization is for. Not that it will be such a great experience (depends on the hospital) but it is to stabilize you so you can be well enough for outpatient treatment. Keep us posted.

 

Re: hospitalization--((((((ALLISON)))))

Posted by JohnL on October 27, 1999, at 3:30:22

In reply to Re: hospitalization--((((((ALLISON))))), posted by Noa on October 26, 1999, at 21:40:23

I must agree that suicidal thoughts warrants a hospital stay. With that in mind, I'm guilty. I have often been on the borderline of suicidal and somehow toughed it out. That really isn't wise though, because in too many cases the suicide is actually attempted. It's hard for us to see in those dark times that it won't last forever. Even if we never sought treatment, it would eventually resolve on its own, at least temporarily. That happened with my grandmother after a 7 year bout. She just got better for no reason. So it doesn't last forever, but we are at great risk while at the bottom of that dark pit.

The first thing that popped into my head concerning this thread is that the current doctor is not taking this seriously and is not being aggressive or innovative like he/she should at this stage. In this same situation, I personally would try another doctor. If for no other reason, just to get that industry-standard second opinion. Hopefully for a bunch of other reasons too though.

I have always felt many docs are in it for the money. But some are in it because they are in love with it. You can tell the difference by their performance and their passion for what they do. This current doc seems to have neither performance nor passion. Compassion seems to be lacking as well.

I think a hospital stay should be at the top of the list. Also at the top of the list, with or without a hospital stay, should be a new doctor. A good doctor can accomplish wonders in a monthly visit where a not-so-good doc seems stuck in the mud even with frequent weekly visits. Quantity does not equal quality.

 

Re: hospitalization--thank you

Posted by allison on October 27, 1999, at 15:23:07

In reply to Re: hospitalization--((((((ALLISON))))), posted by JohnL on October 27, 1999, at 3:30:22

El, Jamie, Brandon, Phil, Dove, Adam, Bob, Niko, Noa and JohnL,

Thank you all very, Very, VERY much for writing. Your insights and suggestions have helped a lot and I'm feeling a little better about things today.

In general, I like my doctor. I think he is compassionate, but maybe I don't know what to look for, as he's my first (I saw an alcoholism counselor for a couple of years when my mother's alcoholism was raging and wreaking havoc). He is a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at the university here, which also has a teaching hospital and its own psychiatry department. (Bob, I'm in Rochester, about 6.5 hours away from you.) He's in a practice with three or four other psychiatrists who also are professors at the university. My doctor was recommended to me by someone at the university who works in the psychiatry department and had seen him herself. I started seeing him in January of 98.

He said just a couple of months ago that we haven't been able to do a lot of work in the last year because of all of the other things going on and the grief surrounding them. We have started work in earnest, but these stresses keep surfacing, I guess because the situations are not yet settled. Whenever I come in and life is bothering me, we talk about that first -- sometimes exclusively, which then sometimes makes me impatient because I want to be fixed.

I guess I am reluctant to get another doctor, mostly because I've invested almost two years in this one and I was extremely reluctant even to do THAT (I didn't want to have to explain everything again, as I had to the counselor, but knew I had to do something as my husband had just stopped me from jumping off a jetty into icy Lake Ontario.)

Maybe it's just my paranoia surfacing, but I also am afraid to go into a hospital for fear of what might happen at work. Real or imagined, I have a fear of losing my job because, as I've said, it's the only stable thing I have (although it hasn't been too stable at work, lately, either). I've never been admitted to a hospital for anything ever. My boss is understanding, as are my coworkers, but I am afraid of possible stigma. I suppose I could just take vacation time and not tell anyone.

Not that it matters, but my dad would never understand. I mentioned once I was seeing a psychiatrist, and he didn't understand why I was even doing THAT (I'm such a level-headed girl, you know.) No worries of ever being committed by family...

I see my doctor again tomorrow afternoon, and I will tell him everything that's been running in my head and I will ask about hospitalization.

And I will keep you posted. Thank you all again, very much.

 

Sounds like a steady course

Posted by Bob on October 27, 1999, at 15:49:20

In reply to Re: hospitalization--thank you, posted by allison on October 27, 1999, at 15:23:07

Allison,

I'm glad you're at least in a university town, as long as you're there in the outback. ;^)

I know exactly what you mean about switching doctors. If you trust him and feel you work well with him, then don't leave.

As for work, check out your possibilities for disability leave. Your boss and your co-workers know, and it sounds like they are supportive, so why feel you have to tiptoe around them? Say that you need some time off, with all those events you've had to deal with, and I imagine (if you've got vacation time built up that you can use instead of disability) that they'll say "It's about time!" more than "What a nut!". Above all, make sure you know what protections you have under the Americans with Disabilities Act ... so that in case something DOES happen at work, you know what protections you have. The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (www.nami.org) have a great factsheet on the ADA ... and I have it posted on my own website as a PDF (http://idt.net/~raboyle/babble/nami2.pdf). Take a look at it -- it's got some good advice.

Be strong,
Bob

 

Re: hospitalization--thank you

Posted by Adam on October 27, 1999, at 17:52:52

In reply to Re: hospitalization--thank you, posted by allison on October 27, 1999, at 15:23:07

Hey, Allison,

I'm a little confused about a couple things, I guess...

What sort if work is it that your doctor is talking about exactly? Is he your
psychotherapist also? What style of therapy is he using? Do you find it helpful?
Do you or he have any particular goals (besides the vague "not depressed?")?

It was my therapist who suggested I try the hospital a week or two before I went in.
I often asked her what it was exactly that I would get out of that, and she never
really ansered my question except to say I could get "stabilized" there. I suppose
she was right. But it was awfully vague. I went finally not because I was feeling
suicidal (that was de rigeur), but because I was coming apart at the seams. I never
knew what to expect because nobody told me, I just had to go because I was at the
end of my rope.

If it isn't a drug change or a doctor change you are planning to get out of a hospital
stay, what is it your doctor or you would have in mind? Safety? That's a valid
enough reason. But are you thinking of actually hurting yourself, or are you just
daydreaming about it? There is a difference between real intent and ideation.

Ask about ECT. Does your doctor recommend it? For the short term, that could be very
helpful, and makes the transition to a new medication (if that is what you're looking
for) a bit easier. I found the memory loss (both retrigrade and antiretrigrade) very
disturbing, but like I said, I was in extremis. There probably wasn't any choice. Do
you have any?

I just think that unless you really don't think you can go on, you should try and
gather some specifics about what might happen once your there so you can make an in-
formed decision.

PS - One unforseen benefit of being in the hospital: After 2+ weeks I couldn't wait to
get the hell out. Definite motivator to grab the bull by the horns, so to speak.

> El, Jamie, Brandon, Phil, Dove, Adam, Bob, Niko, Noa and JohnL,
>
> Thank you all very, Very, VERY much for writing. Your insights and suggestions have helped a lot and I'm feeling a little better about things today.
>
> In general, I like my doctor. I think he is compassionate, but maybe I don't know what to look for, as he's my first (I saw an alcoholism counselor for a couple of years when my mother's alcoholism was raging and wreaking havoc). He is a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at the university here, which also has a teaching hospital and its own psychiatry department. (Bob, I'm in Rochester, about 6.5 hours away from you.) He's in a practice with three or four other psychiatrists who also are professors at the university. My doctor was recommended to me by someone at the university who works in the psychiatry department and had seen him herself. I started seeing him in January of 98.
>
> He said just a couple of months ago that we haven't been able to do a lot of work in the last year because of all of the other things going on and the grief surrounding them. We have started work in earnest, but these stresses keep surfacing, I guess because the situations are not yet settled. Whenever I come in and life is bothering me, we talk about that first -- sometimes exclusively, which then sometimes makes me impatient because I want to be fixed.
>
> I guess I am reluctant to get another doctor, mostly because I've invested almost two years in this one and I was extremely reluctant even to do THAT (I didn't want to have to explain everything again, as I had to the counselor, but knew I had to do something as my husband had just stopped me from jumping off a jetty into icy Lake Ontario.)
>
> Maybe it's just my paranoia surfacing, but I also am afraid to go into a hospital for fear of what might happen at work. Real or imagined, I have a fear of losing my job because, as I've said, it's the only stable thing I have (although it hasn't been too stable at work, lately, either). I've never been admitted to a hospital for anything ever. My boss is understanding, as are my coworkers, but I am afraid of possible stigma. I suppose I could just take vacation time and not tell anyone.
>
> Not that it matters, but my dad would never understand. I mentioned once I was seeing a psychiatrist, and he didn't understand why I was even doing THAT (I'm such a level-headed girl, you know.) No worries of ever being committed by family...
>
> I see my doctor again tomorrow afternoon, and I will tell him everything that's been running in my head and I will ask about hospitalization.
>
> And I will keep you posted. Thank you all again, very much.

 

Re: hospitalization -- Adam

Posted by allison on October 27, 1999, at 22:13:34

In reply to Re: hospitalization--thank you, posted by Adam on October 27, 1999, at 17:52:52

Adam,
Good question(s). I will try to clarify.

> What sort if work is it that your doctor is talking about exactly? Is he your
> psychotherapist also? What style of therapy is he using? Do you find it helpful?
> Do you or he have any particular goals (besides the vague "not depressed?")?

First, yes, he's also my psychotherapist (one-stop shopping, I suppose you could call it, but it has made sense to me to be talking about therapy and drugs with the same person. He also gives me samples whenever he can get them to help keep costs down.) I have found our 40-45 minute weekly sessions helpful.

I think we are trying to get at the root of my anger, which when turned in can cause depression. I believe he's a follower of Jungian theory. We have talked quite a lot about architypes and which I fit into (we've also discussed Clarissa Pinkola Estes' book "Women Who Run With the Wolves" of which I have read about half. Her writing style drives me nuts, no pun intended.) We have discussed anima and animus, my femininity, how I have always been stronger than my husband, my strong sense of obligation, and we discuss my dreams whenever I can remember them enough to get them to paper.

When life gets to be too much, he listens, checks me over for suicidal ideation, asks me to define certain feelings such as "empty" to frustratingly minute detail, asks me about what I'm doing for myself (small things, nice things, like buying flowers, taking time to do things I like to do), checks to see if I'm cooking food for myself, asks whether I've been exercising (which helps), gets on me if I'm not doing those things.

He also makes suggestions on how to get through difficult circumstances such as memorial service details (I was being pressured to have a service right away, but he helped me see that I didn't have to do it right then, and I ended up waiting 4 months), who to invite when I buried my mother's ashes, unpacking and putting away the things from her house. Generally the idea is to try to have someone go with to help, but also it may involve making up a ritual of sorts that will bring more of a sense of closure. For instance I'm not divorced yet, but I unmarried myself on my last (13th) wedding anniversary by bringing down the best curse I could think of on my husband, spitting on my two rings and throwing each, one at a time, into a body of water that I live near.

We've talked about how the thought of suicide has been a comfort... knowing that it's there in case things get really bad...

He has been on me lately for not taking time off. Suggested I take a day off last week. He really wanted a week but knew I couldn't/wouldn't. Not long after my mother's death when I was pretty much at the end of my rope, he asked me whether I thought I needed to take a respite of sorts, but I insisted that I needed to keep working because it was the only thing of structure that hadn't been blown to bits. He backed off.

Last week, I was pretty frayed, but not as bad as this week. We talked about the sort of shrine I've absentmindedly created on my dresser with small items that were my mother's. The meanings of some of the items. We've talked about horses, maybe getting back into horseback riding.

If I'm having fears (such as losing my job), or when I blamed myself when the husband of a good friend came on to me while she was away, he combats/blasts away those thoughts with questions and reason.

I have thought a lot about suicide in the last year, but I always lamented that I couldn't do it until I was sure that my husband wouldn't get any of my estate and until I had a will drawn up. Well, I took care of those things in August. I've had a plan for some time. He is aware of this, and has seemed more serious lately. There's less holding me back now and he knows it, too. It's not so much the suicide as the coming apart at the seams (as you mention) that I'm feeling now and that is making me think that I'm not safe and I cannot trust myself. When coworkers ask me how I am (as one did today), I know I am in trouble.

when I asked about hospitalization, I was looking for an escape. A respite. But there is no escape from self. Hospitalization seemed maybe like a good idea, but it also scares me, as does ECT. I guess it's sort of one more step down into the depths. First it was admitting I needed to talk to someone. Then it was admitting that talking wasn't enough and I needed to take ADs. Then it was admitting that one AD wasn't enough and I had to take a second. I knew I needed these things before I talked to my doctor and before he had a chance to suggest them. Now hospitalization. Maybe ECT... I feel in a slow decline, and that is almost worse than the feeling of coming apart at the seams.

I apologize for rambling (I'm sure Weary, Weary too and Weary Three are sound asleep by now). I don't know if any of this makes sense.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and for your suggestions.

 

Re: -- allison

Posted by weary too on October 28, 1999, at 3:28:01

In reply to Re: hospitalization -- Adam, posted by allison on October 27, 1999, at 22:13:34

> I apologize for rambling (I'm sure Weary, Weary too and Weary Three are sound asleep by now). I don't know if any of this makes sense.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences and for your suggestions.

Weary too has a comment. I wish you would have put me to sleep......I have insomnia bad!! :0)

Do you think your pdoc is too busy teaching? Too academic? Too much theory? Seems that way. Enough talk already. Tell him to whip out the cannons? No more tip-toeing through the bushes? Talk is good. Just seems there isn't enough medical going on. Too academic. Tell him to back off the theory for a while and just work on drugs maybe? I hate to see him use you as a model case to discuss in class. Would be nice to see him try to heal you with a sense of urgency instead. He definitely has the knowledge. Maybe you should clarify your expectations. Enough talk already. Get some meds to work and all the talk stuff will come easy. It will make more sense. More impact. But not the other way around. Just my $.02...

 

Re: hospitalization -- Adam

Posted by Adam on October 28, 1999, at 18:20:20

In reply to Re: hospitalization -- Adam, posted by allison on October 27, 1999, at 22:13:34

It sounds like it might be a good choice for you right now. You are clearly severely depressed.
Besides, voluntary admission is infinitely better than involuntary admission, from what I understand.
You retain the right to make a number of choices.

Going to the hospital will not be a step down into the depths. It is just a different approach
to dealing with your depression. Unfortunately, it is not a strategy that society deals with well.
There is really no getting around this fact, which contributes to your feelings of fear. Just
remember that finding an effective treatment will make the ignorance of others easier to deal with.

I personally do not think your anger is at the root of your depression. I think it is the other
way around. But I'm no expert.

I can get better. Chances are good that it will. Now you must be brave and do what needs to be
done. I know how hard this will be, trust me. Go, and rest.

 

Re: hospitalization -- Adam

Posted by Noa on October 29, 1999, at 6:50:19

In reply to Re: hospitalization -- Adam, posted by Adam on October 28, 1999, at 18:20:20

I want to encourage you not to see going to the hospital as a sign of weakness. It is a way to take care of yourself.

The therapy sounds interesting, but you seem so depressed and so at risk of making a bad decision about your own fate, that I think doing all of that deep, symbolic exploration should be postponed until you are less at risk. Putting your affairs in order is a scary sign, because you said that the loose ends was a deterrent for you to act on your suicide plans. It is definitely time to go into the hospital, and to get a consultation from a "second opinion" (which you will get in the hospital, I think, but if not, should seek out on an outpatient basis). There may be a different med combo that would work better, or ECT, as you say. Or maybe you are eligible for a study of a new drug or magnetic stimulation, etc. YOu need to be stabilized in a safer place before returning to all of the intrapsychic exploration that goes on in the therapy.
BTW, it would be great if the hospital had internet connection, so you could keep us posted. There is clearly a lot of concern for you here.

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by Bob on October 29, 1999, at 12:39:20

In reply to Re: hospitalization -- Adam, posted by Noa on October 29, 1999, at 6:50:19

> I want to encourage you not to see going to the hospital as a sign of weakness. It is a way to take care of yourself.

And taking care of yourself is a sign of strength. So is facing your fears about it and overcoming them. So is facing your concerns about what your co-workers might think and putting your health before some imagined image (it seems like they have a solid sense of concern for you).

Taking a positive action requires both strength and courage -- so see this step for what it truly is, and not what our culture's ignorant stereotypes make it out to be.

Stay strong!
Bob

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by saint james on October 29, 1999, at 14:41:26

In reply to hospitalization, posted by allison on October 25, 1999, at 18:34:55

> Maybe this is a stupid question. I'm fairly new to this board and have not seen much about it (I suppose I should check the archive -- back to stupid and Wellbutrin, I guess.)
>


James here....

I agree with the tenor of what others have said. It is not clear to me...are you on any meds ? Which ? Hang in there kid, we are all pulling for you !

j

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by allison on October 29, 1999, at 18:05:47

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by saint james on October 29, 1999, at 14:41:26

> It is not clear to me...are you on any meds ? Which ?

Thank you, James.

Yes: Remeron 30mg at night, Wellbutrin 100 mg in the morning. I first tried Zoloft and then Effexor XR, but couldn't tolerate either. Remeron (45 mg) helped from March 98 till October 98, when lithuim had to be added. Got off the lithium (thank God) in spring (March or April, I think). Things got bad again in June/July and Wellbutrin was added. Eventually Remeron was cut last summer from 45mg to 30 mg, which is not so sedating/more tolerable.

I talked to my doctor a LOT yesterday. It was only 45 minutes, but it felt like two hours' worth. He saw the change, but he also helped me put some things in perspective, and I'm feeling tired but not so strung out as the previous few days. I think I'm OK, or OK enough to be here ... more stable and not afraid of myself. Wellbutrin dose will be increased. We agreed to leave the Remeron as is.

Thank you all so very much for helping me through the last few days!

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by Ruth on November 1, 1999, at 18:53:34

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by allison on October 29, 1999, at 18:05:47

I feel for you and am sorry that things are so overwhelming. I've been there as I'm sure have many of the others.

It's important that your doc really understand how worried you are about yourself. It sounds like it is a good relationship. What is most important is that you feel like you have a partner going through the struggle with you.

As for hospitalization, it is a hard alternative to contemplate. When I was hospitalized it really was just a matter of following my doctor's advice . At that point I was so out of commission that I wasn't in a position to decide for myself, even though it was a voluntary admission. I think it helped me because it temporarily took me out of the pressure of trying to manage my life on my own. The practical daily living issues were taken care of, there were others around who understood, though I was so out of it I'm not sure how much that mattered. I did have ECT and if you get to a point of considering that I would be glad to share my experience.

What I would like to say to you is that there are alternative paths. There are multiple meds that can be tried, ECT is out there as an option. hospitalization or partial hospitalization is a possibility. But what you need the strength (and the borrowed strength from your doc) to try the various possibilities until one works for you.

The last thing is that if safety becomes an issue you must go to the hospital.

Keep us posted.

> > It is not clear to me...are you on any meds ? Which ?
>
> Thank you, James.
>
> Yes: Remeron 30mg at night, Wellbutrin 100 mg in the morning. I first tried Zoloft and then Effexor XR, but couldn't tolerate either. Remeron (45 mg) helped from March 98 till October 98, when lithuim had to be added. Got off the lithium (thank God) in spring (March or April, I think). Things got bad again in June/July and Wellbutrin was added. Eventually Remeron was cut last summer from 45mg to 30 mg, which is not so sedating/more tolerable.
>
> I talked to my doctor a LOT yesterday. It was only 45 minutes, but it felt like two hours' worth. He saw the change, but he also helped me put some things in perspective, and I'm feeling tired but not so strung out as the previous few days. I think I'm OK, or OK enough to be here ... more stable and not afraid of myself. Wellbutrin dose will be increased. We agreed to leave the Remeron as is.
>
> Thank you all so very much for helping me through the last few days!

 

Re: hospitalization

Posted by Noa on November 1, 1999, at 19:06:19

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by Ruth on November 1, 1999, at 18:53:34

I agree with what Ruth said about the relief from some of the pressure that comes with a more intensive treatment modality, such as hospitalization. When I was really in the throes of the worst depression a couple of months ago, and was seriously suicidal, my therapist's "take charge" approach helped a lot. We made a contract that I would not harm myself, and if I felt I might, I would go into the hospital. It felt like handing over some responsibility for clear thinking, with, of course, the recognition that I WASN'T thinking clearly. It was like suspending my confused thinking and letting the therapist navigate for a while, until I could do it for myself. For me this meant seeing the pdoc immediately and getting an increase in meds. The contingency was that if that didn't work, there would be another med to try, or perhaps hospitalization if needed. The increased dose worked, albeit with some annoying "side" effects, but I started to feel better. Still struggling, but there is no comparison between the depressed feelings I have now and that awful, deep, dark hole I was in a couple of months ago when I really came to beleive that death was the only answer. So, don't rule out hospitalization--it could really help. Keep it as part of your crisis plan with your shrink.

 

Interesting thought O' the day

Posted by allison on November 2, 1999, at 20:34:07

In reply to Re: hospitalization, posted by Noa on November 1, 1999, at 19:06:19

In talking today with a coworker from another department, I learned that she has had depression for years.

Of course we compared notes, life stories of awful childhoods and abuse, and all of the other usual things one might expect, as well as our thoughts of suicide -- old and recent.

This might sound dumb, but I don't think I've ever met anyone in person who had suicidal thoughts, too, and told me. As we parted company, in addition to telling me to call her if/when those thoughts surface again, she left me with some words she keeps in her head (maybe you've heard them before, but I hadn't):

**Part of resisting is surviving.**


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