Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 14088

Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by DOUG on October 28, 1999, at 10:15:21

I am currently taking Serzone, and have been for almost a month, for social phobia. I am up to 300 mg per day. I tried Paxil then Luvox then Celexa but discontinued all because of unwanted sexual side effects (anorgasmia). So far the Serzone has caused me no sexual side effects.
I would like comments from any one with experience with Serzone on the fact that I seem to have some difficulty concentrating and seem to be fidgety (rubbing my leg with my foot, squeezing my hands, etc.). I would normally attribute this to the Serzone, but my steady girlfriend of a year and I broke up at the same time I began Serzone. So I'm not sure if the symptoms are from the Serzone or the normal symptoms from the breakup ( I don't have much of a personal history of breakups to compare this to ).

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Dee on October 28, 1999, at 10:59:27

In reply to SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by DOUG on October 28, 1999, at 10:15:21

I experienced that agitation when I started Serzone, and now again as I am going up from 300 to 450mg. It took me about six weeks to feel the therapeutic effect, and at that time some (but not all) of the anxiety, fidgety and edgey feelings disappeared. I know that I can attribute some of these eperiences to Serzone, but we are *always* affected by everything that affects us, and our lifes just turn out to be the combination of all things.
Id would be a bit too easy if our feelings were simply defined by a disorder or a medication. But trapping up serzone definitely brings some of the kind of trouble you described, and surely some of it is because of your situation. Hang on there for a few more weeks, if your experience is anything like mine, the worst should be over about now.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Craig on October 28, 1999, at 18:26:06

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Dee on October 28, 1999, at 10:59:27

It is good to see a thread started about Serzone. I started taking it two weeks ago and for the past few days, I haven't been able to get out of this semi-stupor. I haven't gotten fidgety, but I keep going into zones, as if I'm on Valium. I can't concentrate, but not because my mind is racing, rather it seems like everythings washed out. Coffee doesn't seem to return any zing or alertness.

Is this the low blood pressure side effect, Or is this how Serzone works, by wiping the slate clean. I feel like grandma on her anti-psychotics.
Any thoughts? I'm getting kind of discouraged and not getting a lot done at work.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Dee on October 29, 1999, at 1:12:41

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Craig on October 28, 1999, at 18:26:06

These are all initial side effects. For me they passed after 406 weeks. The worst, and that was bad, was around 2nd-3rd week, when I upped to 300mg/day.
I am experiencing the whole thing again now that I am going up from 300 to 450 mg, but it really doesn't bother me any more. Because I recognize the mood and know that it will pass in a week or two.

On your second week only thing you feel is the side effects, the good stuff will kick up within a month or so. If it works for you, it'll be worth it.

There were a couple of very good threads about Serzone around August, I think. Worth taking a look.

It was extremely important for me to know that some of the things that I was feeling were temporary side effects that others had experienced, and that they would pass soon. When I got the fits of rage and started crying in the subway on my way home I thought I was losing it for real. Keep us posted about how you feel & you'll learn that all of us have been through the same things in Serzone.

Good luck
Dee

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by jamie on October 29, 1999, at 3:58:38

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Dee on October 29, 1999, at 1:12:41

> These are all initial side effects. For me they passed after 406 weeks.

Four hundred and six weeks? That's a long time don't you think? (just kidding, funny typo tho) 406 weeks! Yeah right! :0)

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by NOa on October 29, 1999, at 14:51:53

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by jamie on October 29, 1999, at 3:58:38

I had extreme emotional agitation plus loss of balance/fogginess in the first few weeks, but they wore off. Good luck.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Craig on October 29, 1999, at 19:18:18

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by NOa on October 29, 1999, at 14:51:53

Thanks, all!

I thought I had some of the good effects in the first week and a half, but that was more likely a placebo effect (ie, the feeling of having a safety net lifts desparation). Not long after, the zone-outs began.

tommorrow I move up to 200mg from 150mg. Luckily my friends are mostly away so I won't embarrass myself if I go on a tare.

Only 404 more weeks to go unill the benefits start!! I'll buckle down (the holidays should be interesting)

And I'll check back on the August threads for more on Serzone...

I'm waiting for Prozac-like feelings to kick in; is that reasonable?

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Lynn on October 29, 1999, at 20:12:05

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Craig on October 29, 1999, at 19:18:18

Doug: I took 300 mg Serzone/day for almost 3 years. I felt VERY tired and spaced out at first, and had a hard time concentrating, but this passed after about 2 or 3 months at 300 mg. I loved Serzone because it had absolutely no sexual side effects. I eventually switched meds because the nature of my depression became more atypical (i.e. more lethargic and sluggish, as opposed to agitated and anxious, which it had been when I started the Serzone), and I needed something more stimulating. But I loved it, and I hope you find it works for you! Good luck!

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by JohnL on October 30, 1999, at 3:18:10

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Lynn on October 29, 1999, at 20:12:05

I once spent an hour talking to a Canadian GP about antidepressants. This guy knew his stuff. Very impressed. He put 2 of my 3 historical pdocs to absolute shame. Anyway, he has an approach with Serzone that has given him an outstanding track record with it. He starts patients at 25mg. Obviously way lower than usual. Then every 5 days increase another 25mg. It takes a lot longer to get up into therapeutic range, but for some reason the end results are much better. And side effects much smoother on the climb up. Probably too conservative an approach for someone in severe suicidal depression. But for many he says it has produced pleasing results. In a nutshell, increase dose by no more than 25mg at a time.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Noa on October 30, 1999, at 8:09:53

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by JohnL on October 30, 1999, at 3:18:10

My doc had me do this kind of gradual increase. It still caused some of the agitation. But, like I said earlier, it went away.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Cindy on November 3, 1999, at 21:24:39

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Noa on October 30, 1999, at 8:09:53

> My doc had me do this kind of gradual increase. It still caused some of the agitation. But, like I said earlier, it went away.
Have been taking Serzone for the past month (second time I tried it, with a trial of Zoloft in between...Zoloft was terrible...I could get excited but not get anywhere!
Both times I started Serzone, I felt the dizziness, fatigue, disorientation, etc. people have described along with an irritation and rage. The rage is not going away, however! For a couple days this week, I felt like killing myself then started directing my anger outwards (having been a totally passive doormat most of the time until now). People are looking at me like I'm a mad dog. Hope the rage lifts soon! Does anybody have any suggestions for combining an OCD SSRI with Serzone? The Serzone definitely makes life easier to cope but I still have visual side effects and the OCD obsessions and compulsions are much worse since I stopped the Luvox I was also taking (sexual side effects again). Two days ago, I got a pill splitter and started on a homeopathic dose of Luvox (only 9 mg instead of l50 mg/day), to see if the gradual approach recommended by people on this list will help. Hope my psychiatrist doesn't get angry when I let him know that in two weeks, but I decided that was better than thinking really awful thoughts (e.g., imagining driving my car off a cliff or into traffic, worrying about harming living things, etc.).
Perhaps I should decrease the Serzone...what dose do most people find allows them to feel less depressed without feeling the rage? Thanks!--Cindy

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by JohnL on November 4, 1999, at 3:05:42

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Cindy on November 3, 1999, at 21:24:39

Hi Cindy. Boy I can sure relate. I got worse and worse when I was on Serzone. Pdoc had told me to work up to 500mg. I did. I got much worse. When trying to schedule an appointment she was on vacation. Then when she got back she was all booked up and I couldn't get in for 6 weeks. I said the heck with it. I started tapering down on my own. By the time I saw her I already had a two week washout behind me. Completely off. Feeling "normal depressed", not Serzone depressed. She blew up. Yelled at me. Pointing the finger. Scolding. I was shocked. I walked out of that office for the last time. Have a new pdoc now who doesn't mind me tinkering on my own. He'll give me a prescrip for anything I want and tell me to "play with it". He says I know a lot about these drugs and I know what to do. Nice to have that kind of trust. And he's right. I know the diffference between an inadequate trial and a good one. I know the difference between therapeutic doses and not. I know the importance of customizing doses as small as needed at first to become tolerant of side effects. Etc etc. I'm just trying to say that I understand your tinkering with the mix. It goes against the grain of "talk to your doctor first" or "do what the doctor says". But we know ourselves better than they do. And if we know what we're doing, tinkering allows experimentation to deal with response and side effects that would be impossible if following direction exactly. So while I don't condone self-tinkering, I must admit a lot of us probably do it. You aren't the only one. Sounds like you're being cautious about it. That's the important thing.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Noa on November 4, 1999, at 3:50:23

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by JohnL on November 4, 1999, at 3:05:42

While I think you made a good choice in finding a doctor that doesn't overreact like the previous one, I would caution against independent tinkering. I think the trust needs to go both ways, and the pdoc is an expert to consult. If the doc is that hard to get a hold of, that is definitely a problem. Why not call the doc to ask if he/she agrees with you about supplementing your serzone, rather than going ahead and then just hoping he/she won't be angry. BTW, it took a WHILE for the agitation I felt on serzone to go away, so hang in there. If it doesn't go away by 2 months, I personally would question its appropriateness for you. If you are still having suicidal feelings, call the doc, get an earlier appointment.

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Craig on November 6, 1999, at 11:32:00

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Noa on November 4, 1999, at 3:50:23

Sounds like John had the doc from Hell! My first pdoc ever told me if I stopped taking Prozac I'd be be a suicidal alcoholic by 40. He'd also get very defensive when I asked about other courses of action...

Cindy, how quick did you get up to that Serzone dosage? My doctor took me up very gradually. Brief spates of irritability, spaciness, and altered states of sleeping, only lasted a few days. Some Doctors start patients out at 200 mg per day, which is what I'm on after three weeks.

Arguably, the Serzone seems less effective on obsessive thoughts (killing oneself, supervising your own actions)than do the SSRIs. Perhaps there is an adjunct along those lines for you.

I do get sorta groggy for several hours after my morning dose of Serzone. I start feeling useful in the afternoon and don't get tired until very late. Seeing as I have to take it with food, I can't take the AM dose much earlier. Will this pass or should I start looking to add something for energy?

Also, How similar is Serzone to Trazadone? I knew someone who was taking Traz. as an anti-psychotic. He stopped taking it because it killed his dreams and creative impulse. I'm a writer and need my creative impulses. Can I expect this emptiness from Serzone?

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Cindy on November 6, 1999, at 12:16:22

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Craig on November 6, 1999, at 11:32:00

> Sounds like John had the doc from Hell! My first pdoc ever told me if I stopped taking Prozac I'd be be a suicidal alcoholic by 40. He'd also get very defensive when I asked about other courses of action...
>
> Cindy, how quick did you get up to that Serzone dosage? My doctor took me up very gradually. Brief spates of irritability, spaciness, and altered states of sleeping, only lasted a few days. Some Doctors start patients out at 200 mg per day, which is what I'm on after three weeks.
>
> Arguably, the Serzone seems less effective on obsessive thoughts (killing oneself, supervising your own actions)than do the SSRIs. Perhaps there is an adjunct along those lines for you.
>
> I do get sorta groggy for several hours after my morning dose of Serzone. I start feeling useful in the afternoon and don't get tired until very late. Seeing as I have to take it with food, I can't take the AM dose much earlier. Will this pass or should I start looking to add something for energy?
>
> Also, How similar is Serzone to Trazadone? I knew someone who was taking Traz. as an anti-psychotic. He stopped taking it because it killed his dreams and creative impulse. I'm a writer and need my creative impulses. Can I expect this emptiness from Serzone?
Hope this message isn't duplicated (the first one I was writing disappeared!).
Craig, I went up to the dose of Serzone I was taking in three weeks (week l: 150 mg/night, week 2: 225 mg/night and 75 mg/AM, week 3: 300 mg/night and 150 mg/AM). Am now taking Serzone 410 mg/day and Luvox 27 mg/day (got a pill splitter), and feel much better (fewer obsessive suicidal thoughts, less drowsy, a lot less total rage and fewer visual side effects from the Serzone such as seeing trails and flashing lights). Have never tried Desyrel, but understand that it has the potential to cause priapism whereas Serzone apparently doesn't, in males, which makes it sound a lot safer.--Cindy

 

Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION

Posted by Cindy on November 6, 1999, at 12:19:29

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Craig on November 6, 1999, at 11:32:00

> Sounds like John had the doc from Hell! My first pdoc ever told me if I stopped taking Prozac I'd be be a suicidal alcoholic by 40. He'd also get very defensive when I asked about other courses of action...
>
> Cindy, how quick did you get up to that Serzone dosage? My doctor took me up very gradually. Brief spates of irritability, spaciness, and altered states of sleeping, only lasted a few days. Some Doctors start patients out at 200 mg per day, which is what I'm on after three weeks.
>
> Arguably, the Serzone seems less effective on obsessive thoughts (killing oneself, supervising your own actions)than do the SSRIs. Perhaps there is an adjunct along those lines for you.
>
> I do get sorta groggy for several hours after my morning dose of Serzone. I start feeling useful in the afternoon and don't get tired until very late. Seeing as I have to take it with food, I can't take the AM dose much earlier. Will this pass or should I start looking to add something for energy?
>
> Also, How similar is Serzone to Trazadone? I knew someone who was taking Traz. as an anti-psychotic. He stopped taking it because it killed his dreams and creative impulse. I'm a writer and need my creative impulses. Can I expect this emptiness from Serzone?
P.S. Craig, re: dreams and Serzone...I have always had very entertaining dreams (swordfighting with Cyrano de Bergerac, chasing drug smugglers, flying, etc., and Serzone hasn't put a dent in my dreaming or creativity at all. Starting in college, I have been able to have lucid dreams and do change the ending sometimes (e.g., if I am being killed by somebody or something or just don't like the ending...I tell myself, I don't like that, and just change what is happening).

 

LUCID DREAMING!!!

Posted by Craig on November 6, 1999, at 16:38:16

In reply to Re: SERZONE - CONCENTRATION / AGITATION, posted by Cindy on November 6, 1999, at 12:19:29

Cindy,

Oh, you've got to show me how to do that (lucid dreaming)!! Dreams have never been anything to me but a manifestation of anxiety...

 

Re: LUCID DREAMING!!!

Posted by Cindy on November 6, 1999, at 20:34:00

In reply to LUCID DREAMING!!!, posted by Craig on November 6, 1999, at 16:38:16

> Cindy,
>
> Oh, you've got to show me how to do that (lucid dreaming)!! Dreams have never been anything to me but a manifestation of anxiety...

Craig, the way I taught myself (while in college) was to keep a notebook by my bed. Every time I woke up, I wrote down everything I could remember. Soon I was remembering a lot of my dreams and trying to "analyze" them (because I was studying psychology). After a while, I would not only remember them when I woke up but would also become aware that I was dreaming, while I was dreaming, and would "metathink" about them while dreaming. Next, during a scary dream, I would "edit" the ending, right after I "died horribly" in the dream, e.g., after being shot I would wake up very briefly and go right back to sleep and change the ending. Now, during a scary dream, I pretty much just change the ending while it is happening and say, "I don't like that. I'd rather this would happen instead." You might want to research lucid dreaming on the Net (I've never done this but there must be stuff out there about it). Hope this helps!--Cindy


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.