Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 13541

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by Tom on October 20, 1999, at 22:58:14

I'm curious about one thing. I've been visiting this site for more than a year, writing from time to time, and haven't encountered anyone who is suffering from depression, not taking meds, and has no intention of taking any. The reason I ask is that I'm one of those people. Don't get me wrong. I've taken alot of medication. All with no success. I've also had alot of adverse reactions which have left me completely gun shy about medicine. So I'm moving forward with everlasting, unmedicated hope. I go to psychotherapy (delayed grief reaction-left me seriously depressed for last 2 1/2 years) with the hopes that my depressive grief will lift on its own one day. If I had to choose the chicken vs. egg theory about depression (i.e. biological vs. pure psychological) I would have to "choose" psychological. I know what caused my depression. It didn't pop up out of the blue. An adverse life event caused my depression. And medicine hasn't helped at all. I know people preach about keeping the faith, you'll find something
that works, but I sincerely don't believe this. I hope to heal through the course of time. I will never use the word "cure" for my condition...nor am I ready to use it in other people's cases.

I do take SAMe, the only thing that I can tolerate. It helps with my symptoms. But I have hope for a more holistic intervention (finding myself again and holding on to that "self" forever).

So...am I alone in my views? Can anyone see empathy in this situation? Or am I just being terribly naive?

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by dj on October 20, 1999, at 23:19:31

In reply to Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Tom on October 20, 1999, at 22:58:14

Tom,
I'd prefer NOT to ever do AD's or any meds & if you reviewed my various posts you would see that I've tried various alternative approachs, including SAMe. Unfortunately this time around the meds are the only thing that have helped, though I strongly resisted going there, took my time & sampeld some along the way and quickly discarded them.

I'm not one, like many here, who seems to believe that they will be on ADs the rest of their lives. However for the time being it's the best alternative for me.

As for the idea of psychology vs biology I beleive it is a combo of both, that there is a genetic predisposition to depression that varies in all and that it can be triggeed by negative events and our re-actions to them.

Botton line is whatever works is the way to go & yes someways are more effective & hence more desirable and that varies by person and choice.Frankly I would like to put the drug companies out of business but for now I am contributing to their bottom liine..

> An adverse life event caused my depression. And medicine hasn't helped at all. I know people preach about keeping the faith, you'll find something that works, but I sincerely don't believe this.

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by JohnL on October 21, 1999, at 3:25:42

In reply to Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Tom on October 20, 1999, at 22:58:14

Hi Tom. I think we can all relate. I've never known anyone who wanted to take drugs. But for me I really have no choice. I'm far from being recovered. But whenever I've tried weening down the depression returns in a quick nasty way. If I ever forget how bad it is, all I need to do is drop my dosage for a few days for a reminder.

Docs in the know are skeptical when someone says they tried everything and nothing works. They say nearly 100% of depressions can be cured and that the primary cause of failure is too low a dose and too little time. For example, pdocs who have learned know that some people need between 100mg - 200mg Prozac. And three months is needed, not the usually touted 6 weeks. But for you and me, the problem with that is finding a drug we can tolerate at such high doses.

What dose of SAMe are you on? You can go up to 1600mg a day ya know. Also, some of the European clinical studies on St Johnswort involved doses of 1800mg and 2700mg. That's two and three times higher than we take here in USA. Needless to say, those studies had the best results.

For someone insisting on a psychological approach, you might want to find a therapist trained in Choice Theory. The author (a psychiatrist) of a book by that title claims in his entire career he has cured all his patients without drugs. But it only works with a therapist trained in Choice Theory. Might want to check out that book

I chose not to take drugs until I absolutely had to. I don't like it. But the alternative is much worse.

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by Noa on October 21, 1999, at 5:31:56

In reply to Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by JohnL on October 21, 1999, at 3:25:42

Hey, Tom, I would prefer no meds, too. But I would be dead. If therapy-only works for you, go for it. I think you know how much your depression impairs your life, and it sounds like it is manageable. It also sounds like you are in a good therapy situation, because you have hope. As for a particular type of therapy, there is research that shows that when therapy works, the particular kind of therapy is not as important as certain universally effective characteristics of the treatment situation: good rapport between therapist and patient, sense of hope, etc. I can't remember all the specifics, but it was clear that the specific method was less important.The only question I have is this new research about how leaving depression untreated actually changes the brain to dispose you to more depression. I think that has happened with me, because for a long time I chose to tough it out without meds. But who knows. I think one thing I am certain of is that for most people with depression, whether they are on meds or not, therapy is important because it helps you be more conscious of your life and can help you feel more in control of your those aspects of your life that you can have some control over, and more realistic about those you can't control. Good luck, Tom, and thanks for writing. Don't feel outnumbered because of the med/non-med thing. We are all struggling one way or another.

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by S. Suggs on October 21, 1999, at 6:44:19

In reply to Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Noa on October 21, 1999, at 5:31:56

Hello Tom, I understand where you are comming from. I suffered for years without realizing what my problem was (Dysthymia / ADD-H / taking lithium, Celexa, Welbutrin - The lithium has made the greatest impact). AD's have made a huge impact in my life, however, I have had my experiences (many) with side effects. It seems that yours are greater in number. All I know is that once (approx. 2 years ago) I tried to quit everything - BAD DECISION! Whether it is biological or psychological is a great question and cannot be answered unless one tries both sides to see what works best. Not trying to overstate the obvious, if someone is depressed, there is a biological factor involved. Will therapy or meds or combo be best? It is a tough question which you will recieve a mixed response. Is there anything you have not tried? I once told my doc that I was ready to "throw in the towel" and he talked me out of it. God bless him! On the other hand, it was a psychiatrist who encouraged me to drop my meds and as mentioned above, with bad results. I am not trying to confuse or make matters worse, but if you decide to not take any extra meds, and do not have a positive outcome with therapy, I would reconsider the possibility of a new med. Who knows, it may be what you are looking for. It took me about 12 tries to find something that helps. You did not mention your type of depression or what you have taken. That info (if you feel you would like to share it) might help the forum come up with some suggestions. Blessings,

S. Suggs

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by Adam on October 21, 1999, at 17:59:07

In reply to Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Tom on October 20, 1999, at 22:58:14

I did that for a while. I would like to think there is hope that depression can be cured without
medications, and believe quite strongly that for some a therapy-only approach is quite efficatious.
Therapy alone has helped me when it was the right kind (for me, CBT), but I have experienced, for
the first time recently, more rapid and profound change in mood in a shorter period of time on
medication than I even hoped for, and this has, to an extent, changed my views on meds.

I still do therapy because I still think I picked up a lot of bad behaviours and beliefs in child-
hood that I don't want to be merely more content to live with. But the drug has been, really, a
big accelerator of the process. And, deep down, I'm just plain happier.

Since depression probably has multiple origins and is not itself a disease but a rather untidy
blanket term for a wide spectrum of disorders, it is clear some modalities of treatment will work
better for some than others. I think, unfortunately, that, given what is available for treatment
presently, for some to eschew meds., even where there are serious adverse side-effects, would be
imprudent, and perhaps deadly. For those with different disorders, drugs may be ancillary, or even
dispensible.

The decision should not be made by personal preference, perhaps. I make this controversial
statement because I think one's perception of drugs and their potential for benefit can be quite
different before and after they take effect, if they do. I guess unless the side effects are truly
unbearable, I would advise anyone to a) find a good doctor (not easy), and b) do what he/she tells
you to do. I consider myself to be better informed about ADs than the average person. When I
was hospitalized earlier this year, it was suggested to me that I try Parnate (first time, unfor-
tunately) and I resisted. Being very unhappy, the potential adversity of MAOIs and, frankly, the
unwillingness to sacrifice the freedom to eat and drink as I choose, led me down another path,
one that ultimately got me nowhere. I tried a compromise solution when I found out it was avail-
able, transdermal selegiline, and have had the benefit of a near-painless experience with an MAOI.
But this will be temporary; in a few months I will be taking selegiline or Parnate orally, and
will have to deal with certain restrictions as a result. I am happy to do this because I am a
happier person. It's worth it. I didn't believe it was before, and suffered for a few extra months
(more than I realized) as a result.

My greatest hope is that, as drug treatments become more refined and efficatious (perhaps somebody
will spend the money to develop less noxious MAOIs in the future if transdermal delivery is an option),
the diagnostic process will become more sophisticated. Right now we have the rather backwards logic
of modern psychiatric nosology, where the most sound diagnosis is based on what worked best to treat
the illness. Hardly optimal, the implication being that psychopharmacology is at best still an artform.
Hopefully someday we will have robust tests, based on genomic, biochemical, and physiological principles
that will take the guesswork out of deciding whether or not a medication is indicated.

> I'm curious about one thing. I've been visiting this site for more than a year, writing from time to time, and haven't encountered anyone who is suffering from depression, not taking meds, and has no intention of taking any. The reason I ask is that I'm one of those people. Don't get me wrong. I've taken alot of medication. All with no success. I've also had alot of adverse reactions which have left me completely gun shy about medicine. So I'm moving forward with everlasting, unmedicated hope. I go to psychotherapy (delayed grief reaction-left me seriously depressed for last 2 1/2 years) with the hopes that my depressive grief will lift on its own one day. If I had to choose the chicken vs. egg theory about depression (i.e. biological vs. pure psychological) I would have to "choose" psychological. I know what caused my depression. It didn't pop up out of the blue. An adverse life event caused my depression. And medicine hasn't helped at all. I know people preach about keeping the faith, you'll find something
> that works, but I sincerely don't believe this. I hope to heal through the course of time. I will never use the word "cure" for my condition...nor am I ready to use it in other people's cases.
>
> I do take SAMe, the only thing that I can tolerate. It helps with my symptoms. But I have hope for a more holistic intervention (finding myself again and holding on to that "self" forever).
>
> So...am I alone in my views? Can anyone see empathy in this situation? Or am I just being terribly naive?

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by saint james on October 21, 1999, at 20:40:05

In reply to Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by JohnL on October 21, 1999, at 3:25:42

.
>
> Docs in the know are skeptical when someone says they tried everything and nothing works. They say nearly 100% of depressions can be cured and that the primary cause of failure is too low a dose and too little time. For example, pdocs who have learned know that some people need between 100mg - 200mg Prozac. And three months is needed, not the usually touted 6 weeks. But for you and me, the problem with that is finding a drug we can tolerate at such high doses.


James here.....

I agree. No one has tried everything. With multi drug treatment the possibilities are exponential.
The correct dose is very important...my docs tell me what the max dose is and what dose to start on
and leave it to me to find the right dose. If I think it would benifit to go above the max, I get a phone consult b4 going higher.

>
> What dose of SAMe are you on? You can go up to 1600mg a day ya know. Also, some of the European clinical studies on St Johnswort involved doses of 1800mg and 2700mg. That's two and three times higher than we take here in USA. Needless to say, those studies had the best results.
>

James here....

Just don't take the 2 together.

j

 

Adam

Posted by Janice on October 21, 1999, at 22:17:27

In reply to Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Adam on October 21, 1999, at 17:59:07

Hi Adam,

I read and enjoyed your post about driving yourself to the hospital and your stay there. At one point in my history (for a 3 month period) my brain was also trying to convince me that I was homosexual. I am, like you, a thoroughly heterosexual person.

anyway, I'm curious as to what you said in the above post, "Since depression probably has multiple origins and is not itself a disease but a rather untidy blanket term for a wide spectrum of disorders." Could you explain further? Is the research you do in the sciences. thanks, Janice.

 

Re: Depression can be treated

Posted by Noa on October 22, 1999, at 1:22:12

In reply to Adam, posted by Janice on October 21, 1999, at 22:17:27

I agree that there are usually other things to try, but I also know that the complications from meds make it extremely difficult for some. Meds come with desired and undesired effects. I believe I should have been on meds a long time ago, and perhaps my depression wouldn't have gotten so bad if I had, but I also think that if someone feels their depression is manageable without meds, ie it doesn't impact their life that much, and they want to work on it through therapy, that is possible the route to take. I am encouraged by recent news of new and different ways of treating depression that are being researcned. That gives me hope, because as I have made my way through different meds, I have gotten more and more discouraged. I am one of those people that someone described earlier in this thread that was on a suboptimal dose for a long time. It addressed the depressed to a degree, but not sufficiently. And the depression just kept getting worse. I think if one is to go the meds route, they should make sure to be on a fully therapeutic dose for them, because I think it is worse to be partially medicated over a long period of time. I think it makes the meds less and less effective. This is based on my own experience, not any research knowledge.

 

Re: Adam

Posted by Adam on October 22, 1999, at 12:08:06

In reply to Adam, posted by Janice on October 21, 1999, at 22:17:27

Hi, Janice,

I do work in the sciences, but I'm actually doing gene therapy research on cardiovascular diseases.
Whatever I say about depression or drugs or anything else is based on what I have gathered through
my own reading and experiences, which makes me no more an expert than anyone who posts here.

But, you think of the term "depression" and then think of all the subtypes of depression, it's a bit
like saying to somebody with hepatitis B that they've got an infection. Gosh there's melancholia,
dysthymia, cyclothymia, seasonal affective disorder, hysteriod dysphoria, typical, atypical, psychotic,
bipolar, and on and on. I think some diagnoses are pretty cut and dry (bipolar, which has its
depressive phases), and some are fairly subtle. I've been called melancholic by one doctor and
prescribed desipramine, and I've been called dysthymic by another and prescribed SSRIs. One of my
favorites was a guy who, when I described some of my OCD-related symptoms suggested I might be
psychotic (this is not depression, of course, but you see what I mean).

For what I've got, whatever it is, I think the best diagnosis I have ever had was the simplest: major
depression. What do you do with such a diagnosis? The answer is try a bunch of stuff until you find
what works. As it turns out, the doctor's first choice was probably the best: an MAOI plus CBT. I
did the last part but not the first initially. Now I'm doing what he told me to do, and I'm benefitting.
I'm not cured, but I'm doing better than I have in a long time.

Some day, maybe, someone like me will walk into a hospital, and a number or routine tests will be taken.
I'll get blood tests to check out all my hormones, etc. (never done before I checked myself into the
hospital this year), maybe they'll take a sample of CSF, and perhaps do an MRI or SPECT or some other
advanced imaging to look at my brain structure. Maybe initial clues based on these tests and some psy-
chological diagnostics will lead the team to look at some specific genes (either the products of those
genes or the sequences themselves) to see if I might be a good responder. The process won't be so sub-
jective. Some day. Imagine the time that could be saved, and the unhappyness that could be prevented.


> Hi Adam,
>
> I read and enjoyed your post about driving yourself to the hospital and your stay there. At one point in my history (for a 3 month period) my brain was also trying to convince me that I was homosexual. I am, like you, a thoroughly heterosexual person.
>
> anyway, I'm curious as to what you said in the above post, "Since depression probably has multiple origins and is not itself a disease but a rather untidy blanket term for a wide spectrum of disorders." Could you explain further? Is the research you do in the sciences. thanks, Janice.

 

Re: Adam

Posted by Elizabeth on October 27, 1999, at 21:37:17

In reply to Re: Adam, posted by Adam on October 22, 1999, at 12:08:06

> But, you think of the term "depression" and then think of all the subtypes of depression, it's a bit
> like saying to somebody with hepatitis B that they've got an infection. Gosh there's melancholia,
> dysthymia, cyclothymia, seasonal affective disorder, hysteriod dysphoria, typical, atypical, psychotic,
> bipolar, and on and on.

And many of these overlap...e.g., hysteroid dysphoria is a subtype of atypical depression, or bipolar depression may have melancholic features. It's not a one-dimensional thing either, and it's a continuum, not a bunch of entirely separate disorders.

My mother has reversed vegetative signs (overeating, cravings for sweets, and hypersomnia when depressed), while I have typical vegetative signs (early morning insomnia, appetite loss), and I know of at least one other case of this sort of thing (only in the other direction: mother with melancholia and daughter with atypical depression), so it does seem they are related.

> I think some diagnoses are pretty cut and dry (bipolar, which has its
> depressive phases), and some are fairly subtle. I've been called melancholic by one doctor and
> prescribed desipramine, and I've been called dysthymic by another and prescribed SSRIs. One of my
> favorites was a guy who, when I described some of my OCD-related symptoms suggested I might be
> psychotic (this is not depression, of course, but you see what I mean).

Well, there's always psychotic depression!

Anyway, it remains to be seen just how meaningful these various subtypes are. The ones that predict treatment response, as far as I know, are atypical depression, melancholia, psychotic features, seasonal pattern, and bipolar vs. unipolar.

> For what I've got, whatever it is, I think the best diagnosis I have ever had was the simplest: major
> depression. What do you do with such a diagnosis? The answer is try a bunch of stuff until you find
> what works. As it turns out, the doctor's first choice was probably the best: an MAOI plus CBT.

You actually find CBT helpful? How so? (Specifics.)

> Some day, maybe, someone like me will walk into a hospital, and a number or routine tests will be taken.
> I'll get blood tests to check out all my hormones, etc. (never done before I checked myself into the
> hospital this year), maybe they'll take a sample of CSF,

*ouch*

> and perhaps do an MRI or SPECT or some other
> advanced imaging to look at my brain structure.

Hopefully not SPECT...they tend not to like to run tests on people that involve injecting radioactive material, unless they have to!

> Maybe initial clues based on these tests and some psy-
> chological diagnostics will lead the team to look at some specific genes (either the products of those
> genes or the sequences themselves) to see if I might be a good responder. The process won't be so sub-
> jective. Some day. Imagine the time that could be saved, and the unhappyness that could be prevented.

You're an optimist, Adam. I mean that in a good way.

 

Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?

Posted by Sofia on October 27, 1999, at 23:29:08

In reply to Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Tom on October 20, 1999, at 22:58:14


> I do take SAMe, the only thing that I can tolerate. It helps with my symptoms. But I have hope for a more holistic intervention (finding myself again and holding on to that "self" forever).
>

What is SAMe? I took myself off medication a couple of months ago. I echo your thoughts and hopes of finding the real me and holding on....I don't believe I could do that with the meds. I am a born-again Christian, so I truly believe that God can and will heal me. I also believe that in His time I will one day understand why I had to go through all of this. I stay close to God with constant prayer (just talking to Him throughout the day). I have seen much improvement when I read the Bible and focus on His healing power, rather than my puny efforts at "numbing the pain" or running away from my problems. I could never have gotten through "the valley of the shadow of death" without God's help. I wish I could say that I have put my depression behind me...I have been stable for a couple of months now...but I know that adversity is part of life, and I have no control over that...so, the best I can do is trust God no matter what. I don't believe a "cure" exists aside from God. We are all made in His image: physical, mental/emotional, and spiritual. We all need Him to put us back together, after all He made us. Peace to you.


 

Re: Sofia

Posted by jamie on October 28, 1999, at 2:30:40

In reply to Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by Sofia on October 27, 1999, at 23:29:08

Sofia, I too feel as you. But I differ in that I believe God put doctors and medicine inventors here for a reason. He doesn't want us to suffer. It's part of our nature, but He doesn't want it any more than we do. He has provided the tools to heal. And like everything else, all we have to do is choose.

I do believe some doctors and some medicines are of the devil. But I also believe some doctors and some medicines are of God. How to tell? By "the fruits of their labors". Right?

Famous biblical people had mental illnesses. I believe there is a purpose and a silver lining. But there is also healing. I really don't believe He wants us to ignore the healing possibilities He has put in front of us.

If you remain firm in resisting medicine, then consider taking a look at the natural healing God gave us. St. Johnswort. Use the Kira brand at drug stores or grocery stores. Its the brand used in clinic studies. Be aware our USA dose of 3 pills a day is pretty low. Many studies involved 9 pills a day. Just remember, it's just plant parts in a pill. I believe a gift from God. There is information of SAMe in other discussions here and in the archives. Or do a search on SAMe. Or go to Wal*Mart and read the package label. It's not a drug. It's a natural substance in our bodies. The pill form is just a way to get more of it. It can help you. God will lead you, and maybe that's why He lead you here. Yeah? I agree with you that God will put us back together. But I believe He does it THROUGH us helping each other (example, doctors/patients), not by some magical wand. We are to help each other. That is how God puts us back together. And He put healing plants here for us to use. That's how I see it.

 

Re: Adam

Posted by Adam on October 29, 1999, at 1:54:22

In reply to Re: Adam, posted by Elizabeth on October 27, 1999, at 21:37:17


>
> You actually find CBT helpful? How so? (Specifics.)

Yes, I do find it helpful, as I have mentioned in other posts.
I do not feel that it is "sophistry," at any rate, though it is
not perfect. As for specifics, well, we discuss a variety of issues
dealing mostly with relationships and negative feelings that I have
about myself and explore the evidence for and against my beliefs,
and come up with game plans to test some of those beliefs. In all
honesty, much of what comes out of my CBT experience is just common
sense. But I have found that when my depression has been especially
bad, I have had a difficult time staying grounded, and my
imagination can run wild. I mean, we deal with a number of issues,
and really it's all focused on a) combatting the distortions that
stem from a depressed mindset, and b) making sure I don't fall into
patterns of seclusion, etc. None of it is something one couldn't come
up with on their own, but I have found it helpful to work through some
issues with another person, especially a person trained in dealing
with the cognative and behavioral aspects of depression and anxiety
disorders, both of which I have.

> > Some day, maybe, someone like me will walk into a hospital, and a number or routine tests will be taken.
> > I'll get blood tests to check out all my hormones, etc. (never done before I checked myself into the
> > hospital this year), maybe they'll take a sample of CSF,
>
> *ouch*
>
Being depressed for 10 years straight. OUCH.
No, really, I'm just whipping around ideas amateurishly.
I just figure there might be some useful chemical clues
to be found in the CSF that you couldn't get from a blood
test. I know spinal taps aren't any fun. Maybe it would
be too invasive. I don't know.


> You're an optimist, Adam. I mean that in a good way.

Thanks!

 

Re: Sofia

Posted by Jeff on October 29, 1999, at 12:17:06

In reply to Re: Sofia, posted by jamie on October 28, 1999, at 2:30:40

Yes God made us, but he/she made us with a brain and creativity to use to help ourselves. Jeff

 

Re: Sofia

Posted by dj on October 29, 1999, at 22:13:29

In reply to Re: Sofia, posted by Jeff on October 29, 1999, at 12:17:06

Wherever we came from, they could have kept the depression, the Nazis and the rest of the crud...

>
> Yes God made us, but he/she made us with a brain and creativity to use to help ourselves. Jeff

 

100 mgs of Prozac?

Posted by Tom on October 29, 1999, at 23:10:21

In reply to Re: Anyone not taking meds...by choice?, posted by JohnL on October 21, 1999, at 3:25:42


>
They say nearly 100% of depressions can be cured and that the primary cause of failure is too low a dose and too little time. For example, pdocs who have learned know that some people need between 100mg - 200mg Prozac. And three months is needed, not the usually touted 6 weeks. But for you and me, the problem with that is finding a drug we can tolerate at such high doses.
>

100 mgs of Prozac???!! 5 mgs made my stomach ache with anxiety. 20 mgs caused me to lose 21 pounds in 2 weeks. It was a miracle I made it to work. When I got home I couldn't move from the couch. At the one month mark on Prozac I finally realized that this 1 month torture rack was not really me losing it ... You get the picture? When I told the Pdoc about what was happening to me , he said, "well, people tend to overeact to the stimulating effects of Prozac" , insinuating that my current state of mind (I think it would have been classified as drug induced psychosis)was of my own doing. I canned that doc. I can't really say anything positive about most of my other docs either, even though I still had hope for medical intervention after Prozac. ( I think most people would have gotten the hint, and took Nancy's advice and "Just said No").

Thank God some people get relief from meds. I suspect just as many don't find relief from meds. Most people come out of depression on their own, without meds, IN MY OWN OPINION (we're all entitled to it, right?).

Anyway, 100 mgs of Prozac????!!! I think I might spontaneously combust if I ingested that...

Good luck to all.

Tom

 

Re: 100 mgs of Prozac?

Posted by saint james on October 29, 1999, at 23:56:41

In reply to 100 mgs of Prozac?, posted by Tom on October 29, 1999, at 23:10:21

>
> >
> They say nearly 100% of depressions can be cured and that the primary cause of failure is too low a dose and too little time. For example, pdocs who have learned know that some people need between 100mg - 200mg Prozac. And three months is needed, not the usually touted 6 weeks. But for you and me, the problem with that is finding a drug we can tolerate at such high doses.
> >
>
> 100 mgs of Prozac???!!

James here....

You have to look at context. People who are on this high a dose were partial resonders to lower doses and have few side effects, so a higher dose
made sence.

With Effexor i have gone up to 400 mgs but have found no real mood/ect benefit above 300 mgs. the sweating was a little problem at 400 mgs but I live in an adobe house that stays 74-76 constant all summer with no AC. 300 mgs made more sence from the cost/benifit/side effect view.

j

 

Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :)

Posted by JohnL on October 30, 1999, at 3:00:27

In reply to Re: 100 mgs of Prozac?, posted by saint james on October 29, 1999, at 23:56:41

You're gonna love this one. First, I agree. I couldn't take any huge amount of anything like 100mg Prozac. But some people can just fine like St James said. But anyway, try checking out a place called Depression Central. In it is "The Collected Writings of Dr Ivan Goldberg". Lots of good reading there. The 100mg I stated was rather conservative. Ha! Try 160mg to 200mg on for size. Ha! I'm not kidding. Makes me laugh it sounds so outrageous. But it's true. Man oh man.

 

Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :)

Posted by saint james on October 30, 1999, at 3:22:20

In reply to Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :), posted by JohnL on October 30, 1999, at 3:00:27

In it is "The Collected Writings of Dr Ivan Goldberg". Lots of good reading there. The 100mg I stated was rather conservative. Ha! Try 160mg to 200mg on for size. Ha! I'm not kidding. Makes me laugh it sounds so outrageous. But it's true. Man oh man.

James here....

Here is my favorite max drug story..... I know a lady with ADD who takes 100-120 mgs of Dex./day Man o man ! Anything under 90 mgs puts her to sleep. He he ! I have seen her on this much and she is normal, no one would guess she was on anything. Anything above 35 mgs and I would need a big hamster wheel to run on. I would have the house cleaned by 8 am and by 12 would have cleaned it 2 more times with a tooth brush !

I love Goldberg's site...I think he is the one who has a questionaire to test your doc to see if goes by the book or is willing to try combos and high doses.

j

 

Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :)

Posted by Noa on October 30, 1999, at 8:07:04

In reply to Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :), posted by saint james on October 30, 1999, at 3:22:20

I believe it is common to use higher doses of Prozac to treat trichotillomania and OCD.

 

Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :)

Posted by Diane on October 31, 1999, at 21:21:18

In reply to Re: 100 mgs of Prozac? How bout 200! :), posted by Noa on October 30, 1999, at 8:07:04

I've been to psychiatrists whose automatic response when a particular med was not working well was to up the med. If 400 mgs of serzone isn't working, how about 600? I've "maxed out" on several different meds. Usually, at higher doses, I feel worse, not better. Meds can be a literal life-saver (they were for me) but they can also have side effects and can lose effectiveness after a time. I try not to forget the many other things I can do for myself beyond meds - exercise, good sleep, a sugar-free, alcohol-free diet, good relationships, meditation. These things are effective. It's easy to ride the "just up the meds" bandwagon. There are depressed people who successfully recover from depression without meds. I know some. It takes a lot of work and lifestyle changes. And, of course, there are some people who cannot recover from depression without meds.


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