Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 10326

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 50. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

As 40 comes into view, I am stuck here struggling to get control of my depressive illness, and have very strong feelings about the impact this illness has had, is having, and may have in the future, on my life.

Will I be able to have kids (if it's not already too late)? Do I WANT to have kids if I might pass on my biological predisposition to depression? If pregnancy is out because of my dependence on medication, will I be able to adopt? Or, will I be ruled out as an adoptive parent because of my depression?

As for marriage: It is hard not to feel completely defective and unsuitable with this illness.

Are any of you struggling with these thoughts?

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Thumper Girl on August 19, 1999, at 6:26:50

In reply to Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

Oh yeah - 40. Been there. Am there actually. I understand the worry about passing this "disorder" on to some sad child. I chose many years ago not to have kids for several reasons - that is one of the major ones. Other reasons - my severaly depressed mom didn't have much in the way of "maternal instinct" or even interest. I think that shaped my lack of desire for children. In addition, worries about what the stress of raising kids would do to my depression just plain scared me.

Do I wonder if I made the right decision? Definately. But, for me, this is the one I stick to. However - I don't have that buring desire for children. If you do - that's completely different. Maybe the mom's here could help you understand the balance of stress vs. the joy of loving a child? (I'm not the best one the ask!)

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Roo on August 19, 1999, at 8:07:46

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Thumper Girl on August 19, 1999, at 6:26:50

Yeah, Yardena, I struggle with the same issues...
I was raised by two depressed parents...my father
attempted suicide when my oldest sister was just a
baby...My mother wasn't exactly depressed, just
pretty stressed out all the time...
My parents did a good job with all of us, and we had
love and support, basically. But there just wasn't
a real sense of joy and vibrancy to the family.
It was like they could cover the basics and that's
about it...
now I find myself not knowing how to experience joy
and excitement/enthusiasm...and not knowing how
to react in it with others...
I think about that a lot when I think of raising
kids...I don't want to be like that...I want there
to be laughter in the house, I want to be able to
be excited for my kids and be enthusiastic about
their little successes, and playful.
And I'm not sure if I can be those things or not.
So yes, in answer to your question--you are definately
not alone in those fears.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by gail on August 19, 1999, at 8:13:54

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Thumper Girl on August 19, 1999, at 6:26:50

> I have passed 40 three years ago. My story is I feel I have been mildly depressed all my life but always too busy to accept. I would get angry and could stay in the black mood for hours and hours. Lots of childhood issues. I had 4 children by the time I was 30. My x was verbally abusive and on several occasions physically. I remarried 5 years later to the finest man in the world. We bought a small textile mill in NC and worked 60+ hrs a weeks. All the work helps you mask your deep feelings. We have 2 daughters together and with the birth of the last I stayed home. All of a sudden I had a lot of time on my hands to think and it wasn't good. I would obsess about the dumbest things and just go into the black moods. All the while I'm trying to function as a parent to 6 children. My husband sat me down and said it was time to go and talk to someone. I have been on Celexa for 3 months and my god the world is wonderful. I feel healed. I am a better mother than I'd thought - truth is my kids will all tell you I'm the best- but now I like myself. I feel like i'm awake and loving life. My children range in age from 22 to 1 1/2. 1 college grad 1 college junior 1 in high school 1 in grammer and 2 at home. I feel Celexa has given me the opportunity to be a better Mom and I love being in my 40's and loving life. I only wish I had gotten help sooner. Having kids is a wonderful lifetime choice. But I understand not a choice for all. Well I've babbled on forever but thats my story. I love Celexa and I love enjoying my family and life. God bless.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Elizabeth on August 19, 1999, at 15:46:27

In reply to Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

> As 40 comes into view, I am stuck here struggling to get control of my depressive illness, and have very strong feelings about the impact this illness has had, is having, and may have in the future, on my life.
>
> Will I be able to have kids (if it's not already too late)? Do I WANT to have kids if I might pass on my biological predisposition to depression? If pregnancy is out because of my dependence on medication, will I be able to adopt? Or, will I be ruled out as an adoptive parent because of my depression?

Hi there. My mom, who also has a history of depression, had a child (my little sister) at age 40. I will say it was tough (I later found out that it took 2 years and 1 miscarriage), but she managed and I think has done a fine job (my sister is now 16). My family has basically been very functional. I will say that I got the depression (much worse than my mom's, in fact), but my sister didn't. So it's not set in stone that your children will be depressed.

I'd ask a lawyer about whether you can be discriminated against by adoption agencies. Sadly, it's possible.

> As for marriage: It is hard not to feel completely defective and unsuitable with this illness.

Get treatment first. Don't worry about your age; the good ones get taken early, but then they realize what a mistake they've made and get divorced. (Personally I think a lot of people get married and have kids too early, in terms of how long they've been dating each other as well as in terms of what phase of life they're in.)

> Are any of you struggling with these thoughts?

Well, I'm 23, but I do worry a lot about the future. Things feel very uncertain. Feeling genuinely "recovered," getting A's in my classes, and having gotten into what seems (so far) to be a very successful relationship have helped restore my self-confidence. So I guess I'd say, treat the depression first, then try to deal with all that other stuff.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by SJ on August 19, 1999, at 21:42:51

In reply to Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

I turned 40 a few months ago, and it was extremely traumatic--mostly in the year preceding my actual 40th birthday. I felt like a total loser. Horrible mother, wife, employee, neighbor, etc, etc. There's an invisible line that separates one's youth (under 40) from one's middle and old age, I think. For me, it felt like I hadn't reached my goals (well...I didn't even have any), and that the deadline to be a successful person had passed. Anything unresolved at this point was going to be with me FOREVER. If it was going to be good, or even just a little better, wouldn't it have happened by now??

I felt that way for several years, but now I've sort of mellowed-out about it.

Motherhood. I have two children (7 and 10), and while I love them dearly, I always feel like I'm a second-rate mom. My husband, thankfully, fills in the blanks. It is very clear to me that my daughter has picked up my depressive tendencies, and I worry about what the future holds for her. She's very intelligent, beautiful, artistic, athletic. An excellent student at school. Lots of friends. She's also extremely emotional, dramatic, obsessive, and given to mood swings that don't seem typical for a 10 year old. I don't know how to describe it, but I do see myself in her (not good). My son, on the other hand, seems the picture of "normalcy".

My Father was an alcoholic, and, I believe, depressed (or something...I suspect alcoholism is self-medication for depression or some other mental disorder). So, yes, I do think depressive illness is woven throughout successive generations.

I can't imagine life without my kids, but I do feel guilty that I may have passed on something like this to my child. It just crept up on me--I didn't feel depressed and anxious when they were born.

So, for you, Yardena, keep in mind that you won't always feel depressed. You'll be well, and the rest just follows naturally....I do wish you the best. Happy Birthday!

Shirley

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Janice on August 19, 1999, at 22:57:32

In reply to Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

Hi yardena, I have read some of your other posts and you seem like a determined and very intelligent woman. I'm 31 and at this point in my life don't plan on having children mainly because I don't want to risk passing on my disorders, and secondarily because I don't know what kind of a mother I'd be. Not only did I inherit these illnesses, but I've also learnt alot of my depressive, impulsive, perfectionist, etc characteristics off of my family members, which, like yours, is laden with disorders, manic depression, alcoholism, ADD, etc.

Most of mental illnesss would be fine if they didn't all seem to come with that Beast, depression. and that Beast, it takes over our lives. we all let ourselves get so far into our illnesses before we get help. I can relate to your thoughts yardena. For about five years now, my only real goal was to get rid of the beast. I'm almost there, and I'm ever so slowly living in a different world than the one I shared with the beast. kill the beast, fight the war on all fronts yardena. Janice

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by yardena on August 20, 1999, at 7:55:07

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Janice on August 19, 1999, at 22:57:32

Janice,

Until recently I had a similar wish about my depression. I hadn't conceptualized it as a beast I needed to kill, but I did keep repeating a pattern that included wishing that "this will be my last depressive episode", as if after this one, I hope I am done with depression forever. It is kind of the flip side of the coin from the depressive belief, when I am in the deepest, most hopleless mood, that I will never NOT be depressed. Recently, I realized that investing too much in the wish to be rid of the depression once and for all is adding to the problem. I have decided to try to accept the apparent reality that this illness is a fact of life for me. Sometimes it is active, sometimes not. Hopefully I can get it under control enough so that most of my life will be spent in remission. Letting go of the need to become a "person without depression" feels like an important step for me. It lets me off the hook a bit, so that I am beginning to be able to STOP BLAMING MYSELF FOR BEING DEPRESSED, which has been one of the most debilitating aspects of this illness. So, to modify your metaphor a bit, I would say that my goal is not to kill the beast (although I would love for it to disappear), but to accept that it is a presence in my life and try to TAME it. What do you think?

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Roo on August 20, 1999, at 10:15:49

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 20, 1999, at 7:55:07


Wow Yardena--I can totally relate to that. Half
of my problem too, is not only the depression, but
beating myself up for having it. So not only do
I feel bad when I'm depressed, but then I judge
myself harshly for feeling bad. I don't know if
you've heard of "Sark", and I'm not a total
fan of hers, but some of the things she says are
right on--one thing she says is that we need to
learn to cradle our dark, sad places. That's really
hard for me--I want to beat it up, say it's "bad",
"wrong" "a pain in the ass". But I'm trying to
be gentle and accepting of myself, like I would be
to a good friend, and I"m getting much better at it
as I practice.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Colleen on August 20, 1999, at 10:42:02

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Elizabeth on August 19, 1999, at 15:46:27

>I understand what you are going through. I went through that and at 39 decided I wanted a baby really bad. I was able to get a good OB/Gyn and she worked with my pdoc to help me get pregnant and carry me through the full 9 months.
Well my story is it took me only one month to get pregnant. I eas completely off of my meds for I wanted to make sure nothing could harm the baby. I felt great. Your hormones change when you are pregnant and for me it lifted my spirits and I had only a few mild times with psycosis. I said to my self I wish I had done this earlier. In fact I felt the best ever when I was pregnant. After the baby was born I stayed off meds for 7 months to breast feed her. After about 5 months it started to get rough and I should have gotten back on meds but I was so determined to breast feed because I really enjoyed it.
I to thought about passing on the genes of my illness to a child, but I realized that since I'm educated on the subject and that medical science is moving forward, that I can help my child if needed.
I truly enjoy my 3 year old. Parenting is not easy and I have a lot of help from my wonderful husband. You have moments that the child will do something and you will laugh and hug the child and you fell really good. My daughter is a bit to early to understand about my illness but she knows I see a doctor every 3 weeks and take medications. To sum it up - I was in the store last week picking up a cake and the baker had done it wrong. This coused me to break down and cry hestericaly in the store. My daughter came up to me and siad "Mommy don't cry the cake will taste good. You need a hug and kiss to be all better" She then proceded to comfort me. Then she said "I love you Mommy" and that amde my day. Well I've type enough. Good luck on you desicion and let us know how you are doing.

 

Re: "cradling the dark , sad places"

Posted by yardena on August 20, 1999, at 16:56:41

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Roo on August 20, 1999, at 10:15:49

Never heard of "Sark", but I agree. I thing part of how I developed my life with depression is that nobody cradled my "dark, sad places" when I was a child. I learned to conceal them and feel that they were fault in my character, that any discomfort I felt was of my own doing and made me worthy of blame.

If I do go on to be a parent, I know that one thing I hope to give my child is (at least most of the time) the patience to accept those dark, sad feelings, and to provide comfort in place of blame. The blame I received came from parents who had no other skills for dealing with the dark, sad, and angry feelings of their children. I may not be able to stop the genetic cycle, but I can alter the psychological/emotional one.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by yardena on August 20, 1999, at 16:59:37

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Colleen on August 20, 1999, at 10:42:02

Thanks. I don't know if I could go that long without meds, the fact that you survived the entire period of pregnancy and lactation off medication makes me more hopeful.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Dee on August 20, 1999, at 23:48:04

In reply to Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

> As 40 comes into view, I am stuck here struggling to get control of my depressive illness, and have very strong feelings about the impact this illness has had, is having, and may have in the future, on my life.
>
> Will I be able to have kids (if it's not already too late)? Do I WANT to have kids if I might pass on my biological predisposition to depression? If pregnancy is out because of my dependence on medication, will I be able to adopt? Or, will I be ruled out as an adoptive parent because of my depression?
>
> As for marriage: It is hard not to feel completely defective and unsuitable with this illness.
>
> Are any of you struggling with these thoughts?

Yardena,
Please don't think of yourself (or any of us for that matter) as carriers of depressive disorder. I've been visiting this site for about the week now, and I must say that I have never felt so much sincere caring, concern and sense of community as I do here. There are lots of wonderful people of very special disposition, who deal with their problems to the best of their ability – and seem to be doing a darn good job of it as far as I can tell.
If there is such a thing as depressive disorder gene that you may pass to your child, there are also all these other genes that make each of us a very special person. Take an honest look at yourself, your accomplishments, creativity, the love you are capable of giving... Don't you think that a child with these qualities deserves to be born.
For myself I can say that if my parent had shown nearly as much concern to my well being as you seem to give the child you are only thinking about, I don't think I'd have a depressive disorder. Anyway, an informed, caring parent who'd be able to recognize it in a child would be able to help the child not to fall into the cycle of shame, secrets, and yet deeper depression.

And we live in a world that has really taught us little more than to consider ourselves less than, and so we are used to look at the worst in ourselves and compare it to the best in others. That is a lie, and we should not subscribe to that lie anymore. Consider what is the best in you, and remember that if you choose to have a child, that child will have some of the qualities that make you unique... I know that worrying is our daily routine, but try not to think that you wouldn't be good enough to carry a child. You are.


Dee

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by yardena on August 21, 1999, at 6:54:15

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Dee on August 20, 1999, at 23:48:04

Wow.
Thank you for the support.

Being able to express my feelings on this forum, and receiving all of this incredible support has been so helpful as I struggle through this latest episode of gloom and doom. Hopelessness is one of the most devastating aspects of depression, and this particular episode hit me hard with severe despair and hopelessness. Getting through the other symptoms (lack of motivation, loss of interest, loss of enjoyment, negative self evaluation, shame, self loathing, disruptions in sleep, etc.) is only possible if I can hold on to some hope that it will not last forever. With this episode of depression, I felt such a profound loss of hope that things will ever change. I think some of that came accross in my posts about the future, although by the time I reached out to all of you, I had been able to pull out of the deepest despair a bit to consider the possibility that a change in meds might actually help.

I notice that what I needed to do when things became so bleak, was to kind of suspend the action by "handing over" some symbolic power to my therapist and psychopharmocologist. What I mean is that since my own thinking was clouded by a desparately gloomy outlook, I made the decision to suspend my thinking for a while and rely on my therapist's apparent belief that there IS hope for me. That allowed me to consider the idea that maybe, just maybe, another (there have been so many) medication change might help. This brought me to that place where I began to consider the future (rather than feeling there is no future for me), a future in which I need to continue to take a hefty concoction of medications, and still might have to struggle with occassional episodes of severe depression. Asking myself the question, "what will my future hold", I turned to all of you and that has really helped me.
Thanks for the support.

I love this forum. I haven't been frequenting it for very long, but I have found the participants to be intelligent, informed, and very supportive. Dr. Bob, thank you for making it available.

 

Re: "cradling the dark , sad places"

Posted by trey on August 21, 1999, at 7:51:46

In reply to Re: "cradling the dark , sad places", posted by yardena on August 20, 1999, at 16:56:41

> Yardena, that was beautiful. I told you that you were a lot stronger than you think, and this post confirms it. You know where your depressions come from. Cradle your own inner child, let it know that it is loved. Scroll back up to the "Epiphany" thread started by Racer and see what I wrote. I can't tell anyone what to believe, but I have experienced this so profoundly that I feel that I must share it. Take it for what it's worth. You're going to be a wonderful mother. Sending you lots of love.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by a fan on August 21, 1999, at 16:33:22

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Colleen on August 20, 1999, at 10:42:02

yardena have you ever thought about writing. I'd say you're gifted.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Stephan on August 22, 1999, at 8:40:28

In reply to Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 18, 1999, at 23:51:27

>
> Will I be able to have kids (if it's not already too late)? Do I WANT to have kids if I might pass on my biological predisposition to depression?

Barring any major natural or "man-made" disasters, by the time any future children reach adulthood there will almost certainly be many more highly effective avenues of treatment for depression. The average compentency level of physicians should also be much higher (I hope). Societal ignorance and stigma should be greatly reduced as well. So by all means, go forth and procreate!

 

Re: Life on Meds..to "a fan"

Posted by yardena on August 22, 1999, at 19:04:44

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by a fan on August 21, 1999, at 16:33:22

A fan,

Thanks. I've just scrolled back to read some of my posts, and am not sure why you were impressed, but I wanted to thank you. An unexpected compliment can certainly make one's day.

Writing can be very therapeutic for me. I used to keep a journal on a regular basis, which helped me to sort things out, but haven't had the motivation to do so in a long time.

Writing to this forum has been extremely therapeutic for me. What this offers that a journal doesn't is the exchange with others who are struggling with similar challenges.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by yardena on August 22, 1999, at 19:07:17

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Stephan on August 22, 1999, at 8:40:28

Stephan,

We can only hope.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Lori on September 16, 1999, at 15:20:36

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Dee on August 20, 1999, at 23:48:04

Dee -

I agree with most of what you said in your response to Yardena, however I have a daughter who is now 23 and I have been aware of her depression since she is old enough to express it -- about eight or nine years of age. My daughter is a pretty, intelligent, caring individual, but does not see any of her wonderful qualities. I have been providing an avenue for her to express and air those dark, horrible feelings, but it has not helped. It has taken me a long time to realize that I cannot make this disease go away by providing love and support. She has been in therapy since the age of 14, and on medication since 17. Nothing has helped. She is an incredibly strong girl because every day is a struggle for her; I fear I will lose her before she turns thirty because of the inability to control this beast -- how much longer can someone fight to find a reason to be alive? Sorry to go on so long, but just wanted to let you know that more is needed than a caring, supportive parent. My daughter also does not want to have children. I totally understand how she feels because she is the one who has to live in this hell everyday. However, we do not have a history of depression in our family, nor in my husbands -- so maybe it won't be passed on to the following generation if my daughter does have children....hard decisions.

I have been reading the posts on this website for months because it has truly helped me understand what so many of you go through and how hard you fight. It also helps me realize that my daughter is not alone in her fight. I admire you all -- you are special -- all in your own ways -- but also because you have experienced so much pain in life and have survived. I don't think most people understand unless they have been there.

Thanks for tolerating my verbosity.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by dj on September 16, 1999, at 16:13:45

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Lori on September 16, 1999, at 15:20:36

I don't know if anyone else feels special. I just feel cursed with a screwed up mind and outlook, despite tons of love and support. Doesn't make a lot of sense, often...

However, others have found ways out and hopefully your daughter shall with your support and others. You and she might find Tracey Thompson's book: The Beast: A Journey Through Depression of interest.

>>> I admire you all -- you are special -- all in your own ways -- but also because you have experienced so much pain in life and have survived. I don't think most people understand unless they have been there.


 

Re: Life on Meds...The Beast

Posted by Susan Jane on September 16, 1999, at 16:33:51

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by yardena on August 20, 1999, at 7:55:07

Yardena,

> So, to modify your metaphor a bit, I would say that my goal is not to kill the beast (although I would love for it to disappear), but to accept that it is a presence in my life and try to TAME it. What do you think?

Thank you for bringing up the subtle shift that can take a much dreaded battle and making it into something else. I have a favorite story that I've read again and again in the last 9 months of living hell.

The story is about a young womyn who chooses to join a nunnery instead of getting married. She quickly finds herself performing the same tasks she would have if married. Upon complaining, her superior asks "And where do you think holiness lies?" Chagrined the young nun returned to her duties. As the years went by she found rhythm and serenity to her days. Eventually she was initiated into the higher ranks and had many mystical experiences. Nevertheless, one day she was talking to potential recruits when she was profoundly struck with how her life had turned out. Not able to speak another word she retired to her room. After some thought, she decided that she needed to follow her childhood dream of becoming a great holy person, packed her few belongings and walked into the mountains alone. Finding a suitable cave, she vowed to devote herself fully to her task. The days and seasons when by one after another as she allowed herself to be present and aware. One day she was returning from collecting firewood when she discovered her cave filled with fearsome demons. She was horrified to see them tossing around her belongings, yelling and screaming, and now making faces at her. Determined not be defeated she walked in among them trying to ignore them. But they yelled all the more loudly and began grabbing her cloths and swinging from them. After a moments thought, she said "You are such fearsome demons, and I am such a small insignificant person, surely there are others that merit your attention." With this some of the demons disappeared. But many still remained wailing and pulling at her robes. Again she thought for a few moments, stood up a little straighter and said "Leave me alone, I know many powerful holy people and I am under their protection. You had better leave now before you must face their wrath!" And some more of the demons disappeared. Yet, some still remained, cavorting and menacing her with their teeth. Beside herself, she nearly shouted "I, too, am a powerful holy person. I have studied for many years and am very skilled. Leave now or face my wrath!" And all the demons disappeared... but one. The biggest, ugliest, most horrible one of them all. The nun knew that she had nothing left to say. She knew that she couldn't defeat this demon. With courage and dignity she faced the demon and walked toward it. As she walked she felt her fear fall away, and her heart fill with compassion. Stepping into the mouth of the demon, it vanished in a rainbow cloud. And she knew in that instant that the freedom she had sought had been within her all along.

May that we all be able to make peace with ourselves and to live within each moment. There are other ways of living beside battling ourselves, besides suffering and stuggling.
SusanJane :)

 

Re: Life on Meds...The Beast

Posted by Yardena on September 16, 1999, at 17:40:56

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...The Beast, posted by Susan Jane on September 16, 1999, at 16:33:51

SusanJane, that story is beautiful. Thanks.

 

Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40

Posted by Noa on September 16, 1999, at 17:42:19

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...Approaching 40, posted by Lori on September 16, 1999, at 15:20:36

Encourage your daughter to visit psychobabble.

 

Re: Life on Meds...The Beast

Posted by Ruth on September 16, 1999, at 18:38:12

In reply to Re: Life on Meds...The Beast, posted by Susan Jane on September 16, 1999, at 16:33:51

Susan Jane- I think your image of taming the beast fits. I have spent a lot of energy fighting with the goal of thinking that my depression would be a discreet episode and never would impact my life again. As I have dealt with it over time I've come to accept that it is a presence in my life even between episodes. Somehow that allows me to use my energy to manage my life which is ultimately more productive. But it certainly is a hard presence to reckon with.
PS. I liked the story.

> Yardena,
>
> > So, to modify your metaphor a bit, I would say that my goal is not to kill the beast (although I would love for it to disappear), but to accept that it is a presence in my life and try to TAME it. What do you think?
>
> Thank you for bringing up the subtle shift that can take a much dreaded battle and making it into something else. I have a favorite story that I've read again and again in the last 9 months of living hell.
>
> The story is about a young womyn who chooses to join a nunnery instead of getting married. She quickly finds herself performing the same tasks she would have if married. Upon complaining, her superior asks "And where do you think holiness lies?" Chagrined the young nun returned to her duties. As the years went by she found rhythm and serenity to her days. Eventually she was initiated into the higher ranks and had many mystical experiences. Nevertheless, one day she was talking to potential recruits when she was profoundly struck with how her life had turned out. Not able to speak another word she retired to her room. After some thought, she decided that she needed to follow her childhood dream of becoming a great holy person, packed her few belongings and walked into the mountains alone. Finding a suitable cave, she vowed to devote herself fully to her task. The days and seasons when by one after another as she allowed herself to be present and aware. One day she was returning from collecting firewood when she discovered her cave filled with fearsome demons. She was horrified to see them tossing around her belongings, yelling and screaming, and now making faces at her. Determined not be defeated she walked in among them trying to ignore them. But they yelled all the more loudly and began grabbing her cloths and swinging from them. After a moments thought, she said "You are such fearsome demons, and I am such a small insignificant person, surely there are others that merit your attention." With this some of the demons disappeared. But many still remained wailing and pulling at her robes. Again she thought for a few moments, stood up a little straighter and said "Leave me alone, I know many powerful holy people and I am under their protection. You had better leave now before you must face their wrath!" And some more of the demons disappeared. Yet, some still remained, cavorting and menacing her with their teeth. Beside herself, she nearly shouted "I, too, am a powerful holy person. I have studied for many years and am very skilled. Leave now or face my wrath!" And all the demons disappeared... but one. The biggest, ugliest, most horrible one of them all. The nun knew that she had nothing left to say. She knew that she couldn't defeat this demon. With courage and dignity she faced the demon and walked toward it. As she walked she felt her fear fall away, and her heart fill with compassion. Stepping into the mouth of the demon, it vanished in a rainbow cloud. And she knew in that instant that the freedom she had sought had been within her all along.
>
> May that we all be able to make peace with ourselves and to live within each moment. There are other ways of living beside battling ourselves, besides suffering and stuggling.
> SusanJane :)


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