Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 13589

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ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference...

Posted by Janice on October 21, 1999, at 14:08:48

I find it very difficult to tell the difference between these two disorders. They both seem to make me miserable. Can anyone help me distinguish between the two disorders by their symptoms; not the external symptoms we read about in the books but more the internal symptoms that we, as individuals, experience.

I'm just copying this list I quickly wrote last night on the differences I've noticed so far.

Qualities I attribute to my ADD
*self-torturous thoughts (similar to anxiety)
*I always feel stuffed full (I think people who suffer from depression feel empty)
*unable to relax
*extremely poor time management skills. never feel like I've gotten anything done.
*oblivious to gossip
*don't/can't do small talk
*never at peace
*EXCITABLE (emotionally)
*serious troubles with boring things.
*rely on external structures for structure - internal chaos.
*intensity
*desire to always make fun of everything
*thoroughly and completely enjoy acting silly.
*experience times when I can't control myself, & then feel shame.
*and a very obvious one probably, troubles spelling.

Symptoms I attribute to Depression

*flu like symptoms (fever, aches and pains)
*not being able to get out of bed
*comes with anxiety and OCD type thoughts (i.e., I cannot be late for anything, not even 2 seconds)


Okay, please contribute to my list (semi-spontaneous, very unscientific). Here are some questions? Is motivation related to depression and ADD. What about goals, do both groups of people have troubles with goals? Are these two disorders (I know they are often found in the same individuals) biologically similar? Are the symptoms I wrote under ADD also symtoms of depression. Can depressed people relax? Thanks again everyone. still thinking about why i feel so ugly, Janice. I half wondering if I could be a bit depressed...could explain why I am on this board.

 

Re: ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference...

Posted by Noa on October 21, 1999, at 18:30:13

In reply to ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference..., posted by Janice on October 21, 1999, at 14:08:48

I am trying to figure this out. As I wrote above, my psychopharmocologist said in my most recent appointment that he thinks I have ADHD. He was vague as to why, and not real committed to the idea, maybe just musing. Anyway, I have been thinking about it a lot since. I think I have concluded that I don't have ADHD but that many of the symptoms of my depression and anxiety overlap with those of ADHD. Both really do interfere with how we regulate our attention, mood, effort, alertness, etc. For me, I think it is the mood disorder family and not the attention disorder family. If one has both, the overlap is larger, and it can be hard to know where the boundaries are.

 

Re: ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference...

Posted by dj on October 21, 1999, at 23:32:52

In reply to Re: ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference..., posted by Noa on October 21, 1999, at 18:30:13

I agree with Noat that many of the symptoms of depression and anxiety overlap as they may do for ADHD. A great site called Wings of Madness
(http://www.wingofmadness.com/feel.htm)
has the following list that various folks have contributed to about their experience of depression and it is bang on!! So here it is:

What Does Depression Feel Like?

"It was not really alarming at first, since the change was subtle, but I did notice that my surroundings took on a different tone at certain times: the shadows of nightfall seemed more somber, my mornings were less buoyant, walks in the woods became less zestful, and there was a moment during my working hours in the late afternoon when a kind of panic and anxiety overtook me..." - William Styron, Darkness Visible

Sometimes the Depression Self-Screening Test is just too clinical, and the symptoms don't really "click" with you. Some of the criteria are general, and if you're suffering from depression, specifics are easier to understand. I know that I might not have diagnosed myself with depression just on the basis of those symptoms. I had no change in appetite, and no sleep problems (waking up was what was difficult). Below are some un-clinical symptoms.

How It May Feel...

•Things just seem "off" or "wrong."
•You don't feel hopeful or happy about anything in your life.
•You're crying a lot, either at nothing, or something that normally would be insignificant. •You feel like you're moving (and thinking) in slow motion.
•Getting up in the morning requires a lot of effort.
•Carrying on a normal conversation is a struggle. You can't seem to express yourself. •Smiling feels stiff and awkward. It's like your smiling muscles are frozen.
•It seems like there's a glass wall between you and the rest of the world.
•You're forgetful, and it's very difficult to concentrate on anything.
•You're anxious and worried a lot.
•You have recurring thoughts of death and/or suicidal impulses.
•You have a feeling of impending doom - you think something bad is going to happen, although you may not be sure what.
•In your perception of the world around you, it's always cloudy. Even on sunny days, it seems cloudy and gray.
•You feel as though you're drowning or suffocating.
•You're agitated, jumpy and and anxious much of the time.
•Your senses seem dulled; food tastes bland and uninteresting, music doesn't seem to affect you, you don't bother smelling flowers anymore.
•Incessantly and uncontrollably into your mind comes the memory of every failure, every bad or uncomfortable experience, interview or date, like a torrent of negativity.

How It May Affect Your Life...

•Your place is a mess; laundry and dishes are piled up, mail is unopened, etc. (Assuming you usually stay on top of these things).
•You've been making excuses to friends why you can't get together with them, or you're telling them you're "just too tired."
•You've really let yourself go - you're wearing clothes that make you look dumpy, you've stopped exercising, you're not shaving unless it's absolutely necessary.
•You're wearing mostly dark colors.
•You're putting off things that need to be done: your car registration, taking that book back to the library, buying a birthday present for someone.
•You can't remember the last time you laughed a real laugh.
•You don't feel like you can handle your job anymore, even though nothing has changed so far as increased workload or responsibility. •You've been to the doctor a lot recently, for things like headaches, stomach aches, fatigue, but the doctor can't find anything wrong. Or you have convinced yourself you have a life-threatening illness - AIDS or cancer or a tumor.
•You wake up in the middle of the night, and can't go back to sleep. During the day you sleep a lot to escape from your life.
•It takes you a whole weekend to do chores that used to only occupy a morning.
•Since you've lost interest in things you used to enjoy doing, you try a lot of different activities in the hopes that you can find something to occupy your time.
•You have no ability to imagine or conceive of your life even a few days ahead - no plans, no hopes. You can't even be sure you'll still be here.
•You wear the same clothes a few days in a row - choosing new ones is too much effort.
•You lose things, you lose track of things and can't always remember what day it is.
•You've pretty much stopped eating, or caring what you eat and whether it tastes good.
•On the flip side, you may be eating all the time because you're bored and hope that food will somehow satisfy the vacant feeling you have.
•You've lost interest in sex or even physical affection. Hugging someone doesn't feel any different from leaning against a wall.
•You're reading escapist books (fantasy, sci-fi, romance, mystery) with little effort, but anything more demanding mentally (the classics, reading for school) is too much effort.
•You're avoiding talking to anyone to whom you have an obligation (your boss, friends who you're ignoring).
•You're watching TV constantly - lying on the couch or on/in your bed flicking the remote seems to be the most effort you can deal with.
•You hope you don't run into anyone you know while you're out. Not only is maintaining a normal conversation difficult, but you are sure they'll notice something is wrong with you.

 

Re: ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference...

Posted by saint james on October 22, 1999, at 3:40:05

In reply to ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference..., posted by Janice on October 21, 1999, at 14:08:48

Seems like you have a handle on what is what. Remember that depression will make many ADD traits worse.

Qualities I attribute to my ADD
*self-torturous thoughts (similar to anxiety)

I would call this depression

*I always feel stuffed full (I think people who suffer from depression feel empty)

Huh ?

*unable to relax
*extremely poor time management skills. never feel like I've gotten anything done.
*oblivious to gossip
*don't/can't do small talk
*never at peace
*EXCITABLE (emotionally)
*serious troubles with boring things.
*rely on external structures for structure - internal chaos.

 

thanks you guys, it's tough...

Posted by Janice on October 22, 1999, at 20:00:05

In reply to Re: ADD and Depression, how to tell the difference..., posted by dj on October 21, 1999, at 23:32:52

thanks for that great list dj! It clarified alot for me. Who'd think this 34 year veteran of mental illnesses would need to be refreshed as to what depression is. Mostly I have ADHD, and my manic depression is secondary to this and seasonal, and quite controllable (I'm praying to God it stays this way). My dad had nerves of steel, just like superman! I got my maternal grandmother's nervous system...she spent 10 years in the 'nuthouse'. Well time's have changed (I've only been in the hospital for 1 month), and times'should only keep getting better (I'm far too optimistic to be depressed).

You really like that vagus nerve stimulator, yes?

life's pretty good. I'm at my brothers and am looking for a job.

If you do buy a timer, make sure you get a digital one. I forgot mine in Hawaii and just bought another one yesterday at a kitchen store. Everything I hate to do, I time. I mean, who couldn't handle 12 minutes of housework a day? I'm actually cutting it down to 10 minutes a day; I just don't need the extra 2 minutes anymore - Yipee!

How's your friend with ADD and his own business. The majority of people (that I know) who has ADD seem to do best being self-employed. What has his employment history been like?

I hope you're doing the very best that you can be doing, Janice.

 

Re: thanks you guys, it's tough...

Posted by dj on October 23, 1999, at 16:14:53

In reply to thanks you guys, it's tough..., posted by Janice on October 22, 1999, at 20:00:05

So life in Calgary is good. Hope it continues for you. So, so here..

V. nerve concept it interesting, yes...fresh perspective..

My friend with ADD has run his own biz for proably 15 or 20 years but is now off on stress leave after some cardiac probs. The biz, though often on the edge has helped him live a nice lifestye overall. Previously he worked in the cable industry (the genesis for his co.) and paid for his college studies by driving a taxi.

He tells me that classic ADDs are entrepreneurs though he didn't consider himself in the former category until a few years ago when learning about his fosters son's fetal alcohol sysdrome (FAS) & seeing some similarity...

Gotta go..

 

Re: thanks you guys, it's tough...

Posted by Craig on October 23, 1999, at 20:59:37

In reply to Re: thanks you guys, it's tough..., posted by dj on October 23, 1999, at 16:14:53

I like DJ's list of attributes. Sometimes when starting an antidepressant, I wonder If I was really depressed in the first place (b/c most are pretty effective for me, that is). Looking at your list, I can check off nearly all of them off, and glad I am getting treatment.

Lately, I've been thinking my inability to concentrate and follow conversations may be ADD rather than depression/anxiety. I immediately block out what is being said and start to obsess about how I will properly respond. I am a writer, but hate writing because of the concentration and organization it requires. I often stop mid-sentence and stare off into space, unable to finish.

sound like ADD? I didn't have problems with schoolwork until college, but my step mom always insisted I was hyperactive. Is there a good test for an adult? I know amphetamines (coffee, cocaine)seem to bring my thoughts together. A clue perhaps??

 

Re: thanks you guys, it tough...CRAIG...

Posted by janice on October 24, 1999, at 10:49:16

In reply to Re: thanks you guys, it's tough..., posted by Craig on October 23, 1999, at 20:59:37


Hi Craig,

Sounds like you're sure about the depression, especially with the great response you get from the ADs. I believe it's relatively common for people with ADD to have a caffeine addiction - I do! As for concentrating, I know, with my ADD, that if something interests me (and I'm very lucky to have so many interests) than I can concentrate intensely; and have been this far, like you, very successful in most of my endevours (excuse spelling - another symptom of ADD). If something doesn't really interest me, this is when the concentration difficulties with ADD show themselves. Small talk would be a good example of losing concentration, I don't/can't do it. (I'm thinking inside, 'why is this person making so much useless noise?)

What I've noticed about depression and concentration is that it doesn't matter what my interest level is, I just can't seem to concentrate. I hope I've helped Craig. There are probably some great sites on ADHD. And I'm sure there are varying degrees of the disorder. Writing's a great profession! Janice.

Just read that bit about cocaine. Very good clue, cocaine made me feel organized, calm and extroverted.

 

Re: thanks you guys, it tough...CRAIG...

Posted by Craig on October 24, 1999, at 12:35:47

In reply to Re: thanks you guys, it tough...CRAIG..., posted by janice on October 24, 1999, at 10:49:16

Thanks, Janice...

Following your advice, I guess the next step is to figure out what I really like. The depression makes me hate everything I do, while stimulants and ADs does the opposite. Both states are likely artificial to some point. Anyway, I'll be sure to discuss this with my doctor :0)

 

craig,

Posted by janice on October 24, 1999, at 13:23:47

In reply to Re: thanks you guys, it tough...CRAIG..., posted by Craig on October 24, 1999, at 12:35:47

Hi Craig,

Don't forget that ADs can put someone into a hypomanic phase, if they are bipolar. And that is a nice place to be but unfortuneately doesn't last. Good luck, Janice

 

Re: ADHD

Posted by Noa on October 24, 1999, at 17:14:33

In reply to craig,, posted by janice on October 24, 1999, at 13:23:47

A couple of thoughts.

Response to stimulant medication is not necessarily an indication of diagnosis.

Some of what you describe, Craig, might be anxiety symptoms (thinking about your own response instead of listening to the person speaking). There is a lot of overlap between anxiety and ADD. Not that it matters that much. A lot of times, the same meds are used.

 

Re: the Beast...

Posted by dj on October 24, 1999, at 22:57:49

In reply to Re: ADHD, posted by Noa on October 24, 1999, at 17:14:33

There's a lot of overlap between anxiety and depression too, & where in the brain wiring does schizophrenia generate from -- another mystery for scientists to explore..

Following is an excerpt from a review on the NY Times site of several books on depression. The following piece focuses specifically on the book, The Beast -- A Journey Through Depression & touches on the author's view of the nature of the Beast:

"For someone experiencing clinical depression, the problem is not forsakingthe self. It is knowing what the self is. Is it the depressed, passive
self? Is it the active self that thrives in clear air when depression lifts? If someone is helped by medication, is the depressed self real, the
medicated self false -- or is it the other way around? "Who was 'I'?," Tracy Thompson asks in "The Beast." Her conclusion is suitably not simple: "I cannot tease apart, even now, where personality ended and illness began; they were woven too tightly together." Finally she puts aside the unanswerable question of which self is real and trusts her own experience:"I was more 'myself' on Prozac than off it."

...When a wound follows trauma, we can at least discern a clear cause for pain. But the shadowy sources of depression interwine the biological and the emotional, the familial and the cultural. Ms. Thompson is faithful to this complexity, giving no simple myth of origins. There is the issue of genetics, an angry father, a depressed mother, a home where the "rule of
silence" stifled children's emotions, an automobile accident when she was
14 that left her with a facial scar, withdrawn and self-conscious. But there is no easy cause-and-effect reasoning: Ms. Thompson does not know where the Beast came from, or why he chose her"

http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?getdoc+site+site+100510

> Some of what you describe, Craig, might be anxiety symptoms (thinking about your own response instead of listening to the person speaking). There is a lot of overlap between anxiety and ADD.


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