Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 10331

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Zoning out...solutions????

Posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 1:48:26

From Jan. to June I was participating in a high intensity IT (information technology) program after spending the past few years battling major anxiety/depression with and without meds and counselling and with a variety of workshops and other activities -- yoga, etc...

Thought I had a handle on it but the return to intense studies in a new area which I found dry as dirt along with a younger more capable group of students found me reverting to intense phsyical and mental angst and barely making it through the first two terms -- with a couple of breaks thrown in to go do some workshops to attempt to break my apathetic and paraytic trance.

Been off for a month and a half attempting to put humpty dumpty back together again while most of my colleagues pursue worktems and I pursue some sense of coherence, meaning, purpose, rational and vision...

Still debating my return in a moth and whether my probs. can partially be attributed to the studies which I detest or is that my anxious/depressive/avoidance/rationalization cycle at work. Both I believe.

However the real killer is when I actually do sit and attempt to read some of this techno-material and spend four hours trancing out over 4 pages of info. (from a huge text -- one of many) and absorbing little if any...My brief recent flitrations with ADs only seem to excerbate the attention gaps and fatigue as well as adding other distractive symptoms such as those face deforming, head swallowing yawwwwnnnnsssssss...

So what's a poor and getting poorer and more befuddled guy do do??? Any ideas on AD alternatives to SSRIs (most of which I've tried and rejected, as they have me) such as Manerix that others might recommend from having good experiences. Seems to have had worked well for Bones except it made his obssessive thoughts more intense and JL's body rejected it altogether. Anyone have any good experiences with this or others psychopharm. substances which left them more clear headed and focused.

Wierd thing about this zoning out while reading (which also happens sometimes when I've read too much about meds. here and elsewhere) is that generally it does not happen to me with other writing as long as it is generally well written which techie texts seem not to be as their language is so bizarre and foreign to this guy at least.

Anyway that's my rant for now. Can anyone relate? And any suggestions medicinal or not...???

 

Maybe...

Posted by Racer on August 19, 1999, at 4:43:07

In reply to Zoning out...solutions????, posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 1:48:26

IT can be a lousy subject, especially to read about. There are techs in this world who can communicate, but they are few and far between, so you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either the books have the information you need, in which case they're written by a techie who can't communicate to save his/her life; or they're written by a writer who may or may not truly understand the concepts, in which case the information usually isn't that helpful. Lovely, huh?

That's the story of my life, so I can relate. Either the information comes in in a form that does me no good, or it comes in in beautiful English that does me no good because it's WRONG! The joys of being a geek, huh?

Here are a couple of suggestions: Have you tried Effexor? It's helped clear my head a lot since I went on it. It wasn't very effective against my depression, but it was very good at relieving my anxiety, which helped my concentration and focus. Also, the clearheadedness started within the first week, though the rest of the effects took a while longer. I think of it as a wonder drug for that reason.

Now for the other suggestions. I draw diagrams of what I read in tech books, especially networking protocols. That helps me a lot. Also, outlining everything as I read it. Yeah, it's more work, and it's deadly, but at least at the end, I understand what I've read better. Another, even harder, suggestion is to find a study buddy. I studied for the Novell exams with a buddy, testing each other, and that was more valuable than anything else I did. Having to discuss the concepts cleared them in my mind, and the practice testing we did was great. You can also make flash cards for yourself, or draw a poster of the concepts or write your own study aids. Anything you do to put the concepts into your own words will help you. I finally understood a programming problem I had been having at 3AM one morning, when I suddenly woke up and realized that if it was a horse, this is what I'd do with it. Stupid, crazy, strange, but whatever works works, you know?

Good luck to you. IT can be so frustrating, but remember the joy of having something go right - and knowing YOU did it!

 

Re: Zoning out...solutions????

Posted by Bruce on August 19, 1999, at 6:43:31

In reply to Zoning out...solutions????, posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 1:48:26

> From Jan. to June I was participating in a high intensity IT (information technology) program after spending the past few years battling major anxiety/depression with and without meds and counselling and with a variety of workshops and other activities -- yoga, etc...
>
> Thought I had a handle on it but the return to intense studies in a new area which I found dry as dirt along with a younger more capable group of students found me reverting to intense phsyical and mental angst and barely making it through the first two terms -- with a couple of breaks thrown in to go do some workshops to attempt to break my apathetic and paraytic trance.
>
> Been off for a month and a half attempting to put humpty dumpty back together again while most of my colleagues pursue worktems and I pursue some sense of coherence, meaning, purpose, rational and vision...
>
> Still debating my return in a moth and whether my probs. can partially be attributed to the studies which I detest or is that my anxious/depressive/avoidance/rationalization cycle at work. Both I believe.
>
> However the real killer is when I actually do sit and attempt to read some of this techno-material and spend four hours trancing out over 4 pages of info. (from a huge text -- one of many) and absorbing little if any...My brief recent flitrations with ADs only seem to excerbate the attention gaps and fatigue as well as adding other distractive symptoms such as those face deforming, head swallowing yawwwwnnnnsssssss...
>
> So what's a poor and getting poorer and more befuddled guy do do??? Any ideas on AD alternatives to SSRIs (most of which I've tried and rejected, as they have me) such as Manerix that others might recommend from having good experiences. Seems to have had worked well for Bones except it made his obssessive thoughts more intense and JL's body rejected it altogether. Anyone have any good experiences with this or others psychopharm. substances which left them more clear headed and focused.
>
> Wierd thing about this zoning out while reading (which also happens sometimes when I've read too much about meds. here and elsewhere) is that generally it does not happen to me with other writing as long as it is generally well written which techie texts seem not to be as their language is so bizarre and foreign to this guy at least.
>
> Anyway that's my rant for now. Can anyone relate? And any suggestions medicinal or not...???


I made a career switch a few years ago to IT. I found Gingko Biloba to be extremely helpful in assisting concentration while studying. It oxygenates the brain by improving circulation, etc. Take 2 or 3 divided doses a day, enough so that your face begins to flush.

Also, if the information is dull (and it sure can be), it could be you are not in the right sub-branch of IT. Some branches are more interesting than others. Programming & algorithms are far more interesting to me than networks. See what works for you.

 

Re: Maybe...

Posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 8:18:26

In reply to Maybe..., posted by Racer on August 19, 1999, at 4:43:07

Racer,

Thanks for the suggestions. Good ones all. Unfortunately Effexor really kicked in my deep fatigue button, as have all of the SSRIs I tried out, not to mention dulling my mind even further. And unfortunately my dull mind doesn't do well at translating this info. into anything more perceptible.

While in school I did have some great coaching from some of my colleagues which hellped me eke through a couple of initial MCSE tests. Since my attempts to tackle further readings in this area have been thwarted by zoning out and low motivation -- both doutbtless reflect the anxiety/depression and the dull nature of the material which just seems to make my mental wheels spin off in a thousand different somative states...

BTW, have you ever seen this comic about a female IT whiz -- Helen, Queen of the Internet
http://www.peterzale.com/helen/ . If not check it out, good for some chuckles on occasion.

Sante!

DJ

> IT can be a lousy subject, especially to read about. ...
>
> Here are a couple of suggestions: Have you tried Effexor? ... I draw diagrams of what I read in tech books, especially networking protocols. That helps me a lot. Also, outlining everything as I read it. Yeah, it's more work, and it's deadly, but at least at the end, I understand what I've read better. Another, even harder, suggestion is to find a study buddy. ...You can also make flash cards for yourself, or draw a poster of the concepts or write your own study aids. Anything you do to put the concepts into your own words will help you.

 

Thanks for your food subsitutes above ...

Posted by Janice on August 19, 1999, at 15:36:45

In reply to Re: Maybe..., posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 8:18:26

I do miss Toronto, but what I really think I was talking about was my ADD and impulse eating and inability to make it to the grocery store, follow a recipe, or do anything that my brain considered boring. Your story reminded me so much of how I discovered I had ADD. I am a very gifted student, I have 2 degrees (I love ideas), but when I had to sit down in front of a computer and do boring things, step by step by step. Well, I tell you, it just couldn't/didn't happen. Think about it jd. I'm goind to check out Granville Island for Mac Apples, Janice

 

Re: Zoning out...solutions????

Posted by andrewb on August 19, 1999, at 16:07:46

In reply to Zoning out...solutions????, posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 1:48:26


> Anyway that's my rant for now. Can anyone relate? And any suggestions medicinal or not...???

DJ,
A dopamine enhancing drug may help.
A study was done a couple of years back where people were given a dopamine-like drug called bromocriptine. Bromcriptine can immprove higher level cognitive functions. In this study they found that bromocriptine could improve a person’s short term memory as measured by a reading memory test in those that started with poor short term memory. However people with good short term memory actually performed worse on the reading memory test after taking bromocriptine. The study concluded that up to a certain point, dopamine improves short term memory but too much dopamine hinders it.
This isn't to suggest that you take bromocriptine. However you may benefit from a dopamine enhancing medicine. Ask your psych. which one may be appropriate. I found the dopamine active Wellbutrin, amineptine and amisulpride all to be effective.

 

Re: Zoning out...solutions-- dopamine enhancers???

Posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 18:28:50

In reply to Re: Zoning out...solutions????, posted by andrewb on August 19, 1999, at 16:07:46

Doesn't Effexor work on dopamine as well as seratonin? My reaction to a few days of that was not pleasurable, though I forget all the reasons why...Is Manerix a dopamine booster? And how do you know where to draw the line between memory boosting and cavving..??? So many questions, & so many possible answers....

And will any of these help with my physical tension which can be pretty intense at times, particularly when I've been feeling like I'm just spinning my wheels...which is more and more???

>
> A dopamine enhancing drug may help.
> A study was done a couple of years back where people were given a dopamine-like drug called bromocriptine. Bromcriptine can immprove higher level cognitive functions. In this study they found that bromocriptine could improve a person’s short term memory as measured by a reading memory test in those that started with poor short term memory. However people with good short term memory actually performed worse on the reading memory test after taking bromocriptine. The study concluded that up to a certain point, dopamine improves short term memory but too much dopamine hinders it.
> This isn't to suggest that you take bromocriptine. However you may benefit from a dopamine enhancing medicine. Ask your psych. which one may be appropriate. I found the dopamine active Wellbutrin, amineptine and amisulpride all to be effective.

 

Re: Thanks for your food subsitutes above ...

Posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 18:45:32

In reply to Thanks for your food subsitutes above ..., posted by Janice on August 19, 1999, at 15:36:45

When I am in the right space nothing seems boring and when I'm in the space I am much in these days often everything seems boring or intiimidating...step by step does bore me mostly because I can't seem to get them into my head and staying there...

I too have a couple of degrees and sometimes love ideas but I do get fatigued with details, particularly when I'm down which is often the case in recent years. Unfortunately I am oh too good at finding the worms/faults in apples/picture and too often miss the overall value because of details which distract or fatigue me, as I can be obsessive at picking at them...

Can't say I'm gifted -- the degrees were a struggle -- because of anxious/depressive patterns and outcomes -- oftentimes and sometimes flowed, particularly when the presentor and content were stimulating or the latter was presented that way by the former.

However it seems to me that a really good student can find the juice in any subject as I observe from some of my colleagues. By that definition I am far from there.

I've a friend with ADD who is a brilliant visionary and optimist, though he has had his bouts of depression in the past.

Good luck finding those unadulterated Macs. It's a sunny day out there now, the challenge for me
is to find some internal sunshine...


> I do miss Toronto, but what I really think I was talking about was my ADD and impulse eating and inability to make it to the grocery store, follow a recipe, or do anything that my brain considered boring. Your story reminded me so much of how I discovered I had ADD. I am a very gifted student, I have 2 degrees (I love ideas), but when I had to sit down in front of a computer and do boring things, step by step by step. Well, I tell you, it just couldn't/didn't happen. Think about it jd. I'm goind to check out Granville Island for Mac Apples, Janice

 

Re: Zoning out...solutions-- dopamine enhancers???

Posted by andrewb on August 20, 1999, at 2:51:27

In reply to Re: Zoning out...solutions-- dopamine enhancers???, posted by dj on August 19, 1999, at 18:28:50

> Doesn't Effexor work on dopamine as well as seratonin? My reaction to a few days of that was not pleasurable, though I forget all the reasons why...Is Manerix a dopamine booster? And how do you know where to draw the line between memory boosting and cavving..??? So many questions, & so many possible answers....
>
> And will any of these help with my physical tension which can be pretty intense at times, particularly when I've been feeling like I'm just spinning my wheels...which is more and more???
>
DJ,
You do have a lot of good questions. I can talk a little from my limited personal experience and from what I’ve read.
First of all, your fatigue, lack of concentration, ‘foggy-headedness’ and low motivation combined with anxiety sounds like what I used to have. Serzone, an SSRI I took, only made my fatigue and concentration worse. Exercise is what used to set me off, it would put me into a whole body funk that would stay for days at a time. Sometimes it would get so bad that I couldn’t remember my own phone number. Poor concentration, low energy and low motivation are common symptoms of depression. It is my impression from what I’ve read that people often find SSRI’s to be ineffective for this kind of depression. It seems reasonable therefore for you to explore other options.
I’ve personally had good luck with amisulpride, a medicine that works on the D2-D3 receptors of the dopaminergic system. (The D2-D3 receptors have been found to be involved with both depression and anxiety.) My mind is much more ‘present’ now, my anxiety is lessened and I have positive energy. But this is just one person’s experience and I’ve only been taking amisulpride for a month. But studies indicate it to be effective with depression and anxiety. Look back over previous posting I’ve made for more information on this medicine.
Another medicine, which can be effective for combined depression and anxiety is Mirapex (pramipexole). It is similar in action to amisulpride. See the posting below for more info. on this relatively new medicine which has yet to be studied fully for its antidepressant potential.
Tianeptine also can help with anxious depression. It works through the body’s cortisol axis, which is involved in stress response. Tianeptine didn’t help me but I know that others who visit this site have tried or are using this med. and may offer to tell you of their own experiences with the medicine.
You ask about Effexor in your post. Effexor at some dosage is supposed to effect dopamine, at least that is what I’ve read in the postings further up the page. I just don’t know whether you having taken Effexor would be able to give you a clue as to how you would react to other med.s that effect the dopamine pathways.
From what I’ve read, it seems the dopaminergic system is complicated and how drugs interact with this system is also complicated. Do realize that there are a lot of med.s that effect the dopaminergic system and only a few of those can help with depression and anxiety. Dopaminergic drugs have various different modes of action, different target dopamine receptors, and different degrees of selectivity, among other variables.
Concerning memory enhancement, even though I referred in my previous post to a study that concluded dopamine levels influence short term memory, don’t expect such an effect from a dopaminergic antidepressant. Amisulpride won’t improve your memory directly but it may improve your mental vigilance and decrease your anxiety and in this manner help you function better mentally.
Best of luck treating your anxiety and depression. One last tip, make sure you are working with a capable and experienced psychiatrist, ideally a psychopharmacologist, who is comfortable and hopefully familar with helping those who haven’t been helped by SSRI’s and other traditional ADs.


 

Re: --dopamine enhancers -further comments -JL +?

Posted by dj on August 20, 1999, at 10:27:25

In reply to Re: Zoning out...solutions-- dopamine enhancers???, posted by andrewb on August 20, 1999, at 2:51:27

Andrew,

Thanks for your detailed and thoughtful responses. Good information there to consider -- hopefully some others will contribute some comments on their experience with some of these meds.

I am curious how exercise set you off. To some degree I see a connection there for me as it doesn't always relieve me, though yoga seems to help generally. I believe the physical tension reflects the mental tension and much of it is a bio-chemical reaction.

The last couple of nights I 've taken a combo. dosage of 5HTP -- St. John's Wort which seemed to help some the first night. Not sure about last night as I awoke today very stiff and kinda fogged mentally. Partly a reflection of the summer heat and waking up in an overheated apt. -- heat seems to set me off at times -- my obsessive anxieties at least...

I also note that my neck and shoulder muscles are very tight thiis a.m. which I believe is a refection of probably clenching my jaw in my sleep -- TMJ reaction which relates to the tight overall body and mind and probably reflects high cortisol levels. Next week I may spend a few days doing some bioenergetic body work which aims to attempt to break some of those negative feedback ciruits.

I note that you didn't have any comment on Manerix and whether or not it's a dopamine booster -- maybe JL could enlighten us there...Perhaps you or he, or others might know whether or not amisulpride, mirapex, or tianeptine are available in Canada. I'm curious whether you had any negative side effects from the latter?

All for now. Thanks again!!

> >
>

 

P.S. -- reflux,TMJ, tension, memory, dopamine,....

Posted by dj on August 20, 1999, at 12:39:51

In reply to Re: --dopamine enhancers -further comments -JL +?, posted by dj on August 20, 1999, at 10:27:25

P.S. -- About 4 months ago I developed a sour taste in my mouth while not on any meds, which I continue to cautiously consider.... My regular doc. said it could be mouth breathing &/or relux and put me on Cimetedine when I finally went to vist. Hard to say whether it helped or if that is the source. Anyone else have experience with this sort of thing?

Reflux from what I understand is backwash of stomach acid through the esophagus (sp?) valve which if it is the case would relate to my occasional INTENSE gag responses (as if someone has a hand about my throat) when feeling REALLY tense and stressed. If I start the day on an empty stomach and drink tea or swallow pills or something that disagree with me that can kick this response into a quick emptying of my stomach contents (which is minimal at that time) into the loo.

So there is an intense physical aspect to the stress reaction for me which involves the TMJ cicuitry -- ie. mouth, neck, shoulders...when the tension really kicks in for me. I find it hard to circumvent this response despite having used various relaxation response techniques at various times. Anyone have any experience dealing successfully with this type of thing -- preferably with no meds. ? Would this be cortisol related and hence perhaps respond to dopamine forumulations???

And would dopamine also effect long term as well as short term memory. When I am functioning well my memory excels at making connections and when not I'm lucky to recall my name by times never mind making any type of connection, creative, social or otherwise...

Any folks relate to any of this and have any insights into successful ways of dealing with any such dysfunctions???

 

Re: amisulpride & dopamine enhancers - effects..?

Posted by dj on August 20, 1999, at 12:56:14

In reply to Re: Zoning out...solutions-- dopamine enhancers???, posted by andrewb on August 20, 1999, at 2:51:27

Andrew & others,

How long do these meds. take to kick in and what sort of side effects can one anticipate from them????

> >
> I’ve personally had good luck with amisulpride, a medicine that works on the D2-D3 receptors of the dopaminergic system. (The D2-D3 receptors have been found to be involved with both depression and anxiety.) My mind is much more ‘present’ now, my anxiety is lessened and I have positive energy. ..
> Another medicine, which can be effective for combined depression and anxiety is Mirapex (pramipexole).
> Tianeptine also can help with anxious depression.

 

Re: amisulpride & dopamine enhancers - effects..?

Posted by Janice on August 20, 1999, at 21:17:54

In reply to Re: amisulpride & dopamine enhancers - effects..?, posted by dj on August 20, 1999, at 12:56:14

Hi dj, it's me Janice. I was just reading your post above. What a sad little childhood you must have had. No wonder you're in the state you're in. My heart goes out to you.

I'm writing about manerix, you were curious about it somewhere on this bulletin board. I've tried it, it did nothing and I had absolutely no side effects. But then no AD has ever helped me with depression for more than a month. Good luck, Janice. I'm reading andrew's posts thinking, yeah, maybe I'll try that.

 

Andrew, DJ, etc. RE: Dopamine Enhancers

Posted by RG on August 21, 1999, at 11:38:33

In reply to Re: amisulpride & dopamine enhancers - effects..?, posted by Janice on August 20, 1999, at 21:17:54

Hi, all.
I just spoke to my doc. He was leary of giving me a script for mirapex (it's in the US) and amisulpride (Germany), but... I got Wellbutrin to try and actually if I take .1mgs of synthroid I felt a little more UP. Anyway, he's a bit leary of the side effect profile on mirapex. I need more research on dosing and side effect profile.
RG
The Victoria Apoth. people responded to me but I need a script. so... I'll wait for more research, etc. and keep surfing or hear from you guys

 

Re: DJ, anxiety and depression

Posted by andrewb on August 22, 1999, at 2:51:33

In reply to Re: amisulpride & dopamine enhancers - effects..?, posted by dj on August 20, 1999, at 12:56:14

DJ,
Good questions.
You asked me how exercise would set me off. Hard exercise used to make me feel mentally fatigued, depressed and anxious for days afterwards. I don’t know why. My psychiatrist says that this is unusual but he has heard of it before.
You mention heat too. Heat also used to throw me into a mental fog..
You are right that the anxiety causes your jaw clenching and neck and shoulder tightness.
Here is a tip for you concerning this muscle tension, try taking more calcium. I read a piece on the internet that said muscle tension causes a buildup of lactic acid (a waste product of muscle contractions) and it is this lactic acid that creates the apprehensive, irritable and panicky feelings associated with anxiety. The piece went on to say that taking sufficient calcium would neutralize the effect of excess lactic acid and vitamin D would ensure the absorption of the calcium into the body.
You may also benefit from taking kava kava. Kava kava is a mild muscle relaxant that can be bought in health food stores.
If your worried about your cortisol levels, you may want to get a blood test. While your at it you could test your thyroid hormone levels, your blood glucose and hemoglobin levels.
Concerning Manerix (moclobemide), yes it does increase the amount of dopamine (in the synaptic cleft) as well as seretonin and norepinephrine.
Here is some more information on amisulpride, Mirapex, and tianeptine.
Amisulpride is not available in Canada. It must be ordered from overseas. It takes only a day or so to for its effects to be felt. Side effects are rare in men. Women may (often?) experience endrocinological side effects such as swelling of the breasts and lactation.
Mirapex is available in Canada, Its takes less than a week to take effect. Side effects may include insomnia, fatigue, dyskinesias, orthostatic hypotension and hallucinations.
Tianeptine I don’t believe is available in Canada. It takes effect in only days but I also remember a post which indicated that its full effect took much longer. Its main side effect I think is insomnia. When I took it I started feeling very mean spirited after 4 days, so I quit taking it.
Best of Health,
Andrew


 

Re: RG, dopamine med.s

Posted by andrweb on August 22, 1999, at 2:54:36

In reply to Andrew, DJ, etc. RE: Dopamine Enhancers, posted by RG on August 21, 1999, at 11:38:33

> Hi, all.
> I just spoke to my doc. He was leary of giving me a script for mirapex (it's in the US) and amisulpride (Germany), but... I got Wellbutrin to try and actually if I take .1mgs of synthroid I felt a little more UP. Anyway, he's a bit leary of the side effect profile on mirapex. I need more research on dosing and side effect profile.
> RG
> The Victoria Apoth. people responded to me but I need a script. so... I'll wait for more research, etc. and keep surfing or hear from you guys

RG,
Wellbutrin seems a like logical choice. Its well tested, generally well tolerated, psychiatrists in the US are very familiar with it and it has the potential to work where SSRI’s have failed. I’m glad I tried Wellbutrin before experimenting with the more exotic medicines. Best of luck.
As far as getting a script for amisulpride, your doctor will want to see some information on the medicine. If and when you want to try amisulpride, email me at andrewb@seanet.com and I will email you back the studies and the other information to show the doctor.

 

Re: childhood impacts..? -- J

Posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 10:40:52

In reply to Re: amisulpride & dopamine enhancers - effects..?, posted by Janice on August 20, 1999, at 21:17:54

Janice,
My childhood was pretty good. I had great parents and grew up in big house literally above the tracks in a small town. There were tensions and distance between my father I when I hit my teens and beyond.as well as a lot of both kindness and cruelty from some of my school peers.

Whatever challenges I have come from a combo of genetics, some bad breaks and some poorly learned coping skills as I see it. And yes sometimes I feel like hell and others not. Had a great day hanging with a friend yesterday but
now back home and out of sorts again, partly because my closet full of anxieties is stirring for a lot of reasons...so it goes...

Thanks for you empathy!


> Hi dj, it's me Janice. I was just reading your post above. What a sad little childhood you must have had. No wonder you're in the state you're in. My heart goes out to you.
>

 

Re: DJ, anxiety and depression -- A?

Posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 10:52:20

In reply to Re: DJ, anxiety and depression, posted by andrewb on August 22, 1999, at 2:51:33

Andrew,

Thanks again for your carefully noted thoughts. Calcium is a good suggestion -- any idea how much?

Do you live in Canada & if so how were you able to arrange for the amisulpride -- through your psych???

Have you ever tried SAMe and if so what's your experience of it been? The hype on it is that it has positive physical impacts for arthritis and so on so perhaps it can impact on tension, etc...

Last but not least could you please explain what are "dyskinesias, orthostatic hypotension" ?

 

Re: DJ, your Qs?

Posted by andrewb on August 22, 1999, at 12:36:02

In reply to Re: DJ, anxiety and depression -- A?, posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 10:52:20

> Andrew,
>
> Thanks again for your carefully noted thoughts. Calcium is a good suggestion -- any idea how much?
>
> Do you live in Canada & if so how were you able to arrange for the amisulpride -- through your psych???
>
> Have you ever tried SAMe and if so what's your experience of it been? The hype on it is that it has positive physical impacts for arthritis and so on so perhaps it can impact on tension, etc...
>
> Last but not least could you please explain what are "dyskinesias, orthostatic hypotension" ?

DJ,
Try taking supplemental calcium, following whatever dosage instructions that are on the bottle. Don't forget the vitamin D.
I live in US. The doctor wrote me a prescription. Then I used the prescription to buy the amisulpride from an overseas pharmacy (Victoria Apotheke). The laws in your country probably allow youand your doctor to do the same. If you are interested I will email you added ordering information (andrewb@seanet.com).
SAMe probably wouldn't help with muscle tension.
I take TMG (trimethylglycine), an inexpensive supplement that is converted into SAMe. I take this supplement with vitamin B-12. This is a cheap way to get the various benefits of SAMe.
Diskinesias: problems with voluntary muscle movements
Orthostatic hypotension: Low blood pressure in the head when standing. This may cause a person to suffer fainting spells upon standing up.

 

Re: dopamine med.sm -- Wellbutrin??? -- AB...

Posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 15:58:44

In reply to Re: RG, dopamine med.s, posted by andrweb on August 22, 1999, at 2:54:36

Andrew,

Is Wellbutrin a dopamine enhancer? What was your experience of it, which gladdened you and why did you choose not to continue it and go on to the more exotic meds??

Thanks for being such a fount of info.

Sante!

DJ

> >
> Wellbutrin seems a like logical choice. Its well tested, generally well tolerated.... I’m glad I tried Wellbutrin before experimenting with the more exotic medicines. Best of luck.
>

 

Re: dopamine med.sm -- Wellbutrin??? -- AB...

Posted by Rg on August 22, 1999, at 18:40:44

In reply to Re: dopamine med.sm -- Wellbutrin??? -- AB..., posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 15:58:44

> Andrew,
>
> Is Wellbutrin a dopamine enhancer? What was your experience of it, which gladdened you and why did you choose not to continue it and go on to the more exotic meds??
>
> Thanks for being such a fount of info.
>
> Sante!
>
> DJ
>
> > >
> > Wellbutrin seems a like logical choice. Its well tested, generally well tolerated.... I’m glad I tried Wellbutrin before experimenting with the more exotic medicines. Best of luck.
> >

Thanks Andrew for your replies. I am on the second day of Wellbutrin and I think what has actually helped is the fact that I've been on zoloft now for 2 months, synthroid at .1 mg, now I've added the wellbutrin, too. Could help the libido and dopa as well.
Thanks RG

 

Re: DJ, your Qs? -- supplement(al)s for you, AB..

Posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 22:03:30

In reply to Re: DJ, your Qs?, posted by andrewb on August 22, 1999, at 12:36:02

Andrew,

How much vitamin D would you suggest with the calcium? D3? I have a calcium-magnesium combo. which is suggested 3 times a day -- 333mgs of elemental calcium.

I also picked up a TMG combo. which has 500 mgs TMG and 250 mcg B12, B6-15mgs, 400 mcg Folic Acid and 10 mgs Intrinsic Factor. Bottle suggests one a day. What's your experience with dosage and what if any impact do you notice?

What all do you take overall??

Thanks again for your thoughtful and detailed responses!

Sante! (french for health)

DJ

P.S. -- Do you know if many if any ADs & related meds. cause hypotension?? I notice a feeling of being off balance when I've come off Paxil & Zoloft as well as when checking out 5HTP, St. John's Wort combos...maybe partly from just trying to get my head around all of this stuff....

> Try taking supplemental calcium, following whatever dosage instructions that are on the bottle. Don't forget the vitamin D.
> I take TMG (trimethylglycine), an inexpensive supplement that is converted into SAMe. I take this supplement with vitamin B-12. This is a cheap way to get the various benefits of SAMe.

 

I got you confused...

Posted by Janice on August 23, 1999, at 12:48:47

In reply to Re: DJ, your Qs? -- supplement(al)s for you, AB.., posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 22:03:30

with the person in the leornard cohen thread, who's mother died when he was 6 and his father obsessively compulsively played Leonard Cohen afterwards.

I'm glad your childhood was happier than this poor persons. Good luck dj. did you ever try lights in this city? As I said ADs don't seem to work for me, but lights do. I use the visor lights. they cost a couple of hundred dollars. They work for me and God knows we don't see the sun enough. Janice.

 

Re: DJ,.

Posted by andrewwb on August 23, 1999, at 21:04:01

In reply to Re: DJ, your Qs? -- supplement(al)s for you, AB.., posted by dj on August 22, 1999, at 22:03:30

Wellbutrin does inhibit the reuptake of dopamine. I don't know how strong this action is. I wonder if it doesn't mostly act by inhibiting the reuptake of norepinephrine (the brains's version of adrenaline). It certainly felt completely different from amineptine a med I’ve also taken that solely blocks the reuptake of dopamine.
At first when I took Wellbutrin I experienced good mental energy; better attentiveness, clarity, less fatigue and sleepiness. After a few weeks though I started to feel tense all the time, like I had too much attentiveness. It was painful to concentrate. I became irritable and impatient. I also felt spacey, like my head was a helium balloon on the end of a string. My energy in sports also was flattened. I quit taking it after 2 months of use. It never did raise or lower my mood. Just my experience. Maybe my dosage wasn't correct.
DJ,
I don't know how much vitamin D you should take. I presume the amount that you would find in a multivitamin would be sufficient.
As far as the TMG, that mix you bought sounds good. I take 1000mg. a day. I don't feel any different when I'm taking it. I just take it for its espoused general health benefits. Some people, I would think, will experience an antidepressant effect.
One other thing I take that may interest you is omega 3 fatty acids in the form of fish oil, orange flavored cod liver oil to be exact. It is available at health food stores. It has been shown to help some people with depression but most people take it for the cardiovascular benefits and general brain health Take one tablespoon a day or as directed.
I don't know if hypotension is associated with Paxil and the other seretonin active med.s you mentioned.

 

Re: dopamine med.sm -- Wellbutrin??? -- AB...

Posted by dj on September 13, 1999, at 22:21:31

In reply to Re: dopamine med.sm -- Wellbutrin??? -- AB..., posted by Rg on August 22, 1999, at 18:40:44

RG,

How's the Wellbutrin going for you and why are you taking it with Zoloft?

DJ

> > > Wellbutrin seems a like logical choice. Its well tested, generally well tolerated.... I’m glad I tried Wellbutrin before experimenting with the more exotic medicines. Best of luck.
> > >
>
> Thanks Andrew for your replies. I am on the second day of Wellbutrin and I think what has actually helped is the fact that I've been on zoloft now for 2 months, synthroid at .1 mg, now I've added the wellbutrin, too. Could help the libido and dopa as well.
> Thanks RG


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