Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 8909

Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

The Effexor Lie

Posted by Richard on July 19, 1999, at 6:18:40

First things first . I am a born-again Christian after figuring out through logical reasoning and several illogical but very spiritual trials that Christ is the only one who can save me without any ulterior motives.
This is for anyone who may be seduced by the lies and misinformation surrounding the use of Effexor XR . I used/abused Effexor for 2 years. July 7th, 1999 was the last day I ingested this drug. It finally dawned on me that my depression wasn't caused by a deficiency of Effexor in my body, my depression was caused by various factors resulting from a wracked immune system. ( the root of ALL diseases, people..)
But if my doctor had a Porsche payment due, and really, really cared for me nonetheless, do you think he's gonna feed me herbs and guarantee my immuno-recovery while knowingly snubbing the FDA ?
Show me the money.
If it was legal, He/She/It--whatever, would force-feed me every non-herb available while spouting off about the wonderful results each drug was having on
such and such guinea pig patient friends of his. If I was a Doctor and spiritually dead, I too would screw you in the name of the almighty greenback American deathcare system. Why Else would I or anyone else become a doctor? Yah, I would care very much at first,
because the money is non-existant and the studying must be indescribably torturous to ones own mind.
Soooooooo, I guess my point was missed a ways back.
Effexor--bad. Blind faith towards any human being
promising to fix you--bad. Realizing our failure at controlling our lives and realizing that control is just an illusion anyway--good. E-mailing me and asking me who I think I am--better. Growing up and knowing that college will destroy your spirituality if you let it-----well, that's unavoidable. If I'd praised God earlier and learned about unconditional Love, none of this Effexor stuff would have Taken place....

Richard
Toxic waste dump and master of denial.

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by saintjames on July 19, 1999, at 9:56:32

In reply to The Effexor Lie, posted by Richard on July 19, 1999, at 6:18:40

> First things first . I am a born-again Christian after figuring out through logical reasoning and several illogical but very spiritual trials that Christ is the only one who can save me without any ulterior motives.
> This is for anyone who may be seduced by the lies and misinformation surrounding the use of Effexor XR . I used/abused Effexor for 2 years. July 7th, 1999 was the last day I ingested this drug. It finally dawned on me that my depression wasn't caused by a deficiency of Effexor in my body, my depression was caused by various factors resulting from a wracked immune system. ( the root of ALL diseases, people..)
> But if my doctor had a Porsche payment due, and really, really cared for me nonetheless, do you think he's gonna feed me herbs and guarantee my immuno-recovery while knowingly snubbing the FDA ?
> Show me the money.
> If it was legal, He/She/It--whatever, would force-feed me every non-herb available while spouting off about the wonderful results each drug was having on
> such and such guinea pig patient friends of his. If I was a Doctor and spiritually dead, I too would screw you in the name of the almighty greenback American deathcare system. Why Else would I or anyone else become a doctor? Yah, I would care very much at first,
> because the money is non-existant and the studying must be indescribably torturous to ones own mind.
> Soooooooo, I guess my point was missed a ways back.
> Effexor--bad. Blind faith towards any human being
> promising to fix you--bad. Realizing our failure at controlling our lives and realizing that control is just an illusion anyway--good. E-mailing me and asking me who I think I am--better. Growing up and knowing that college will destroy your spirituality if you let it-----well, that's unavoidable. If I'd praised God earlier and learned about unconditional Love, none of this Effexor stuff would have Taken place....
>
> Richard
> Toxic waste dump and master of denial.


James here...

Sorry it did not work for you but for me it is the best AD I have been on, having tried many since 1985.

james

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Cass on July 19, 1999, at 15:03:21

In reply to The Effexor Lie, posted by Richard on July 19, 1999, at 6:18:40

Growing up and knowing that college will destroy your spirituality if you let it-----well, that's unavoidable.

Dear Richard,

I'm wondering what you studied in college. I feel that the study of literature and fine arts validated and enhanced my feelings of spirituality.

Cass

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Richard on July 20, 1999, at 4:05:01

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Cass on July 19, 1999, at 15:03:21

> Growing up and knowing that college will destroy your spirituality if you let it-----well, that's unavoidable.
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> I'm wondering what you studied in college. I feel that the study of literature and fine arts validated and enhanced my feelings of spirituality.
>
> Cass

Dear Cass
Thanks for responding to my post. Iam new to this and actually happened upon it by accident. This is my second typing of my response to your response because I was in a hurry and must have hit the wrong button. Everything I wanted to say disappeared. Anyway, at 21 years of age, I knew nothing about nothing and spirituality was just another word to avoid during conversations at beer parties. I am basing the above comment on a generalized viewpoint I have on other courses, like philosophy 101, which I took, and others which seem to fill a person with the idea that books and interviews and heresay are all that one needs to understand, or even have a working knowledge of, just about anything. For a lot of things, this is almost sufficient to get an average grade if it were a test. I will be the first one to tell you that I only know this first-hand because I lived it myself. I couldn't help it. Drugs and alcohol seemed to dampen and muffle my emerging fountain of the need for--no, the demand for, logic and order in an insane and totally dysfunctional environment. Add to that my emotional and spritual immaturity and, well, you've probably seen my kind on campus in just about any bar or frat house kegger. I'm the one talking about how cool 'foosball' is and asking where the next beer function is going to be held, all the while secretly wondering if everybody is as confused and uncertain about who they are as I was. Thank my Lord and Saviour for time. A lot of it needs to go by sometimes to allow for healing, growth, understanding, and wisdom, not to mention sentence structure and run-on-and-on sentences.
If my Journalism (my major) instructor could see me now, She would probably advise me to keep my day job. Thanks for reading this.
By the way, my spirituality really didn't come into sharp detail until my first day in alcohol and drug rehab. That was 11 years after I left college.
You, Cass, must never believe the world or its views concerning spirituality ( I don't have any idea if you do or not, ---just preaching). Christ told us that 2000 years ago. The world or its technology cannot save us once we are dead and return to the dust from which we were created. Besides, we can't take it with us anyway, right?
Unconditional love is what destroyed my walls, and I still have a problem accepting it.
I like the subjects you said you studied. They are great in and of themselves, as well as fascinating reads. My problem was my age, although I love history very much. Well, I am
beginning to.........babble?

bye,
Richard


 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by MelindaJ on July 20, 1999, at 8:44:44

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Richard on July 20, 1999, at 4:05:01

Hi Richard,

Congratulations on your sobriety! I also think its wonderful that you've accepted Christ into your life. As a fellow Christian, I've battled anxiety and depression most of my life. I've watched my mother, on her knees in prayer, begging God for relief from her symptoms. Mental illness is a very real disease. Any doctor worth his salt will examine and rule out underlying health problems before prescribing a course of medication. I also feel that any responsible physician will also insist that a patient enter therapy while on medication. Unfortunately, there are a lot of uncaring, incompetent doctors in this country (right, Racer?). Ultimately, its up to the patient to be informed, question ALL doctors and insist on quality care. I feel that God has given me the strength to pesevere through some rough circumstances and led me to the care I need. Best of luck to you - may our Lord guide you to peace and happiness.

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Richard on July 20, 1999, at 14:52:29

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by MelindaJ on July 20, 1999, at 8:44:44

> Hi Richard,
>
> Congratulations on your sobriety! I also think its wonderful that you've accepted Christ into your life. As a fellow Christian, I've battled anxiety and depression most of my life. I've watched my mother, on her knees in prayer, begging God for relief from her symptoms. Mental illness is a very real disease. Any doctor worth his salt will examine and rule out underlying health problems before prescribing a course of medication. I also feel that any responsible physician will also insist that a patient enter therapy while on medication. Unfortunately, there are a lot of uncaring, incompetent doctors in this country (right, Racer?). Ultimately, its up to the patient to be informed, question ALL doctors and insist on quality care. I feel that God has given me the strength to pesevere through some rough circumstances and led me to the care I need. Best of luck to you - may our Lord guide you to peace and happiness.


Thanks Melinda ! God Bless You

 

Richard, good wishes.

Posted by Cass on July 22, 1999, at 18:22:56

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Richard on July 20, 1999, at 4:05:01

> > Growing up and knowing that college will destroy your spirituality if you let it-----well, that's unavoidable.
> >
> > Dear Richard,
> >
> > I'm wondering what you studied in college. I feel that the study of literature and fine arts validated and enhanced my feelings of spirituality.
> >
> > Cass
>


> Unconditional love is what destroyed my walls, and I still have a problem accepting it.

Richard, it sounds like you've come a long, long way. I admire your ability to surrender to a more elevated presence than your own ego. Congratulations and good wishes.

Well, I am
> beginning to.........babble?
>
Lol,
Cass
>
>

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Levi on July 25, 1999, at 6:04:44

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by MelindaJ on July 20, 1999, at 8:44:44

Richard:

A born again christian??? Your lack of charity and decency amazes me. Moreso your slamming of your doctor is both uncalled for as well as likely inappropriate.Do you know that he had a payment due on his car? Is it possible that he is not a money hungry greedy person? Is it just possible that he would not feed you every variey of medication under FDA rubric? You may diagree with his thinking and diagnosis but where is all of your venom coming from?? By the way, you slam his/her education, and you cannot fathom how it might be interesting. Is it possible that he knows more about mental illness than someone who simplistically states that a "wracked immune system " is the root of all. By the way, does that include schizophrenia, huntington's disease and PTSD? Just as an aside, what religion was your psychiatrist????

I do not want to sound like a crabby complainer, and I am sure that Richard has some valid points, but i am disappointed in the responses to his original posting. how come no one called him on his arrogantly inane and vicious posting. I assume that many of us who hang our hats on this message board believe that there is such a thing as mental illness, that doctors do care, and that they are not just making porsche payments. Thank you.

 

Re: Please be civil

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 1999, at 22:58:39

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Levi on July 25, 1999, at 6:04:44

Hi,

I just wanted to remind everyone, please feel free to disagree with others, but remember the golden rule, too. Thanks,

Bob

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Richard on July 28, 1999, at 2:35:47

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Levi on July 25, 1999, at 6:04:44

> Richard:
>
> A born again christian??? Your lack of charity and decency amazes me. Moreso your slamming of your doctor is both uncalled for as well as likely inappropriate.Do you know that he had a payment due on his car? Is it possible that he is not a money hungry greedy person? Is it just possible that he would not feed you every variey of medication under FDA rubric? You may diagree with his thinking and diagnosis but where is all of your venom coming from?? By the way, you slam his/her education, and you cannot fathom how it might be interesting. Is it possible that he knows more about mental illness than someone who simplistically states that a "wracked immune system " is the root of all. By the way, does that include schizophrenia, huntington's disease and PTSD? Just as an aside, what religion was your psychiatrist????
>
> I do not want to sound like a crabby complainer, and I am sure that Richard has some valid points, but i am disappointed in the responses to his original posting. how come no one called him on his arrogantly inane and vicious posting. I assume that many of us who hang our hats on this message board believe that there is such a thing as mental illness, that doctors do care, and that they are not just making porsche payments. Thank you.

Thanks for responding Levi, I guess I too was surprised at the number of respones containing little or no disagreeing opinions about my 'rantings'. First of all, the doctors I was refering to was a generalization. Maybe that was a mistake. However, unless you've walked in my shoes and experienced what I've experienced amongst 'caring professionals' you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that physicians are extremely ignorant about nutrition. Doesn't that raise a 'plethora' of giant, brilliantly-colored red flags ? Come on. If the FDA can't patent it,(ie. herbs, etc...) Why prescribe it ?

All I know ( and believe me, I will be the first one to tell you I know zippo ) is that there is nothing new under the sun. Whatever ailments human beings are suffering now, has been around since the fall of man. This includes mental illnesses and incapacitations of all types.
If you do not believe in Our Lord, all this is meaningless. I had to find out the hard way( as I have all my life, unfortunately) that I have control over what I take into my body. I do not have control over what I was born with/without.
Why do a lot of people suffer? why does God allow people to be born with mental illness ? Why? Don't know.
When I originally posted my Effexor posting, I was upset about an incident involving my HMO, which is a very fine organization but blanketed in red tape which caused some very uncomfortable decisions to be made by my family and I. I still had a right to rant, though , and I may do it again. Maybe you can respond again in a colorful fashion. That's what this is all about, isn't it.

Richard,
toe-stepper, and arrogant neophyte.

P.S.
Your name, Levi, is really cool.

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Jane on July 28, 1999, at 19:40:40

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Richard on July 28, 1999, at 2:35:47

> > Richard:
> >
> > A born again christian??? Your lack of charity and decency amazes me. Moreso your slamming of your doctor is both uncalled for as well as likely inappropriate.Do you know that he had a payment due on his car? Is it possible that he is not a money hungry greedy person? Is it just possible that he would not feed you every variey of medication under FDA rubric? You may diagree with his thinking and diagnosis but where is all of your venom coming from?? By the way, you slam his/her education, and you cannot fathom how it might be interesting. Is it possible that he knows more about mental illness than someone who simplistically states that a "wracked immune system " is the root of all. By the way, does that include schizophrenia, huntington's disease and PTSD? Just as an aside, what religion was your psychiatrist????
> >
> > I do not want to sound like a crabby complainer, and I am sure that Richard has some valid points, but i am disappointed in the responses to his original posting. how come no one called him on his arrogantly inane and vicious posting. I assume that many of us who hang our hats on this message board believe that there is such a thing as mental illness, that doctors do care, and that they are not just making porsche payments. Thank you.
>
> Thanks for responding Levi, I guess I too was surprised at the number of respones containing little or no disagreeing opinions about my 'rantings'. First of all, the doctors I was refering to was a generalization. Maybe that was a mistake. However, unless you've walked in my shoes and experienced what I've experienced amongst 'caring professionals' you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that physicians are extremely ignorant about nutrition. Doesn't that raise a 'plethora' of giant, brilliantly-colored red flags ? Come on. If the FDA can't patent it,(ie. herbs, etc...) Why prescribe it ?
>
> All I know ( and believe me, I will be the first one to tell you I know zippo ) is that there is nothing new under the sun. Whatever ailments human beings are suffering now, has been around since the fall of man. This includes mental illnesses and incapacitations of all types.
> If you do not believe in Our Lord, all this is meaningless. I had to find out the hard way( as I have all my life, unfortunately) that I have control over what I take into my body. I do not have control over what I was born with/without.
> Why do a lot of people suffer? why does God allow people to be born with mental illness ? Why? Don't know.
> When I originally posted my Effexor posting, I was upset about an incident involving my HMO, which is a very fine organization but blanketed in red tape which caused some very uncomfortable decisions to be made by my family and I. I still had a right to rant, though , and I may do it again. Maybe you can respond again in a colorful fashion. That's what this is all about, isn't it.
>
> Richard,
> toe-stepper, and arrogant neophyte.
>
> P.S.
> Your name, Levi, is really cool.

Richard,

I am curious. You said that July 9 was your last time to take Effexor. As a Christian I am constantly thinking that I don't need Effexor either. However, I have found that I am able to function much better with it. Every time I try to not take it I get into trouble. How are you doing without it?

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Toby on July 29, 1999, at 14:23:01

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Jane on July 28, 1999, at 19:40:40

Richard,

Just couple things from the resident shrink-without-a-schedule...

Most docs I know do care about the well-being of their patients, some are better educated than others, some are more conservative than others, some have their favorite meds and stray not far from them, some only know meds and not psychotherapy, some over diagnose certain illnesses and don't recognize others. In short, they are fallible in one way or another. Some are just bad doctors and some are evil. Whereas in this forum we might hear more about the bad, evil ones because most people who do well with their docs are out living their lives rather than seeking additional help from a list like this (and I don't mean that the ways it sounds, everybody here has a life, I just mean that successful treatment usually means not needing or wanting any additional contact with others with problems), I am hopeful and experience tells me that most docs know what they are doing and work hard to keep up with good treatments.

As far as not prescribing what the almighty FDA approves, that is not exactly true. There are many meds that the FDA approves for one indication but that docs use clinically for multiple other illnesses that the FDA has nothing to say about. There are many examples in psychiatry: blood pressure meds used for performance anxiety; antidepressants used for anxiety and OCD and bed wetting and ADD; anticonvusants used for anxiety and manic depression and migraines; etc. And I've made this argument elsewhere: just because something is natural or plant based, doesn't mean it is harmless. Belladonna is natural, arsenic is natural, but let's not indulge in these. Kava kava is natural but yet it can cause coma, dermatitis, and interact with other substances to create toxicities. St. John's Wort is natural but can cause an interaction with certain foods to cause lethal hypertension.

Any doc or therapist interested in healing the whole person rather than just treating symptoms will emphasize the importance of spirituality, having the person focus on a higher order of living, get "outside themselves." Sadly, though, in my experience, many patients do not want to do that. They want to treat the symptoms but then don't know what to do with themselves when the symptoms are gone and don't have anything to replace those feelings with. You mentioned your youth as a factor in not knowing how to go about finding the right way to go. Many times the youthful lost soul never figures that out and becomes the middle aged doctor shopper, looking for someone or something else to make it all better; if they could just sleep everything would be fine, if they could just not be nervous (ever) everything would be fine, etc. I try to tell them a pill won't do it all, and they nod and say "where's my prescription for the latest antidepressant I just read about in People magazine, since I'm sure that's the answer." And then you don't see them for 4-6 months and then they come back with a new crisis and that darn medicine didn't do a thing in the two weeks they took it and isn't there something else to try? And no of course they didn't stop smoking pot because pot isn't the problem, it's the job and the kids and the spouse.

At any rate, my turn to rant a little. Most of the folks who are posting on this list have had a very hard time finding a good doc and good medicine and good therapy. My hope is for them to be successful with all three and hopefully one day get to leave all three behind. Until that day comes, I wish for them to be compliant with their medications that are available and to keep their appointments and to be honest with themselves and their doc. There is no magic bullet. Even sprirituality isn't enough to "cure" everything, you need antibiotics for infections, you need vitamins for health, you need a boat to cross a river. I mean, Richard, you are talking about using immune boosters, so you aren't completely relying on faith to make you better, you are using the tools God has provided to treat what ails you. For you, Effexor and everything else didn't do it, for others they are life-savers.

Best to you. Keep on keeping on. Keep your faith no matter what you find in the GNC store.


 

last follow up

Posted by Richard on July 30, 1999, at 15:00:11

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Jane on July 28, 1999, at 19:40:40

> > > Richard:
> > >
> > > A born again christian??? Your lack of charity and decency amazes me. Moreso your slamming of your doctor is both uncalled for as well as likely inappropriate.Do you know that he had a payment due on his car? Is it possible that he is not a money hungry greedy person? Is it just possible that he would not feed you every variey of medication under FDA rubric? You may diagree with his thinking and diagnosis but where is all of your venom coming from?? By the way, you slam his/her education, and you cannot fathom how it might be interesting. Is it possible that he knows more about mental illness than someone who simplistically states that a "wracked immune system " is the root of all. By the way, does that include schizophrenia, huntington's disease and PTSD? Just as an aside, what religion was your psychiatrist????
> > >
> > > I do not want to sound like a crabby complainer, and I am sure that Richard has some valid points, but i am disappointed in the responses to his original posting. how come no one called him on his arrogantly inane and vicious posting. I assume that many of us who hang our hats on this message board believe that there is such a thing as mental illness, that doctors do care, and that they are not just making porsche payments. Thank you.
> >
> > Thanks for responding Levi, I guess I too was surprised at the number of respones containing little or no disagreeing opinions about my 'rantings'. First of all, the doctors I was refering to was a generalization. Maybe that was a mistake. However, unless you've walked in my shoes and experienced what I've experienced amongst 'caring professionals' you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that physicians are extremely ignorant about nutrition. Doesn't that raise a 'plethora' of giant, brilliantly-colored red flags ? Come on. If the FDA can't patent it,(ie. herbs, etc...) Why prescribe it ?
> >
> > All I know ( and believe me, I will be the first one to tell you I know zippo ) is that there is nothing new under the sun. Whatever ailments human beings are suffering now, has been around since the fall of man. This includes mental illnesses and incapacitations of all types.
> > If you do not believe in Our Lord, all this is meaningless. I had to find out the hard way( as I have all my life, unfortunately) that I have control over what I take into my body. I do not have control over what I was born with/without.
> > Why do a lot of people suffer? why does God allow people to be born with mental illness ? Why? Don't know.
> > When I originally posted my Effexor posting, I was upset about an incident involving my HMO, which is a very fine organization but blanketed in red tape which caused some very uncomfortable decisions to be made by my family and I. I still had a right to rant, though , and I may do it again. Maybe you can respond again in a colorful fashion. That's what this is all about, isn't it.
> >
> > Richard,
> > toe-stepper, and arrogant neophyte.
> >
> > P.S.
> > Your name, Levi, is really cool.
>
> Richard,
>
> I am curious. You said that July 9 was your last time to take Effexor. As a Christian I am constantly thinking that I don't need Effexor either. However, I have found that I am able to function much better with it. Every time I try to not take it I get into trouble. How are you doing without it?


I gradually reduced the dosage and finally stopped at 75 mg. or so. The first 2 weeks were filled with the typical mind shocks, but, starting with the day I completely stopped, those shocks got milder and milder. I haven't experienced any for a couple of days now, but once in a great while I'll experience a little mild shock. I feel great and I'm still acting "up". I thought for sure I would be down and exhausted tired, craving the drug. This is one of the many lies. God bless you and your journey to freedom.

 

Thanks and God Bless You !

Posted by Richard on July 30, 1999, at 15:05:50

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Toby on July 29, 1999, at 14:23:01

> Richard,
>
> Just couple things from the resident shrink-without-a-schedule...
>
> Most docs I know do care about the well-being of their patients, some are better educated than others, some are more conservative than others, some have their favorite meds and stray not far from them, some only know meds and not psychotherapy, some over diagnose certain illnesses and don't recognize others. In short, they are fallible in one way or another. Some are just bad doctors and some are evil. Whereas in this forum we might hear more about the bad, evil ones because most people who do well with their docs are out living their lives rather than seeking additional help from a list like this (and I don't mean that the ways it sounds, everybody here has a life, I just mean that successful treatment usually means not needing or wanting any additional contact with others with problems), I am hopeful and experience tells me that most docs know what they are doing and work hard to keep up with good treatments.
>
> As far as not prescribing what the almighty FDA approves, that is not exactly true. There are many meds that the FDA approves for one indication but that docs use clinically for multiple other illnesses that the FDA has nothing to say about. There are many examples in psychiatry: blood pressure meds used for performance anxiety; antidepressants used for anxiety and OCD and bed wetting and ADD; anticonvusants used for anxiety and manic depression and migraines; etc. And I've made this argument elsewhere: just because something is natural or plant based, doesn't mean it is harmless. Belladonna is natural, arsenic is natural, but let's not indulge in these. Kava kava is natural but yet it can cause coma, dermatitis, and interact with other substances to create toxicities. St. John's Wort is natural but can cause an interaction with certain foods to cause lethal hypertension.
>
> Any doc or therapist interested in healing the whole person rather than just treating symptoms will emphasize the importance of spirituality, having the person focus on a higher order of living, get "outside themselves." Sadly, though, in my experience, many patients do not want to do that. They want to treat the symptoms but then don't know what to do with themselves when the symptoms are gone and don't have anything to replace those feelings with. You mentioned your youth as a factor in not knowing how to go about finding the right way to go. Many times the youthful lost soul never figures that out and becomes the middle aged doctor shopper, looking for someone or something else to make it all better; if they could just sleep everything would be fine, if they could just not be nervous (ever) everything would be fine, etc. I try to tell them a pill won't do it all, and they nod and say "where's my prescription for the latest antidepressant I just read about in People magazine, since I'm sure that's the answer." And then you don't see them for 4-6 months and then they come back with a new crisis and that darn medicine didn't do a thing in the two weeks they took it and isn't there something else to try? And no of course they didn't stop smoking pot because pot isn't the problem, it's the job and the kids and the spouse.
>
> At any rate, my turn to rant a little. Most of the folks who are posting on this list have had a very hard time finding a good doc and good medicine and good therapy. My hope is for them to be successful with all three and hopefully one day get to leave all three behind. Until that day comes, I wish for them to be compliant with their medications that are available and to keep their appointments and to be honest with themselves and their doc. There is no magic bullet. Even sprirituality isn't enough to "cure" everything, you need antibiotics for infections, you need vitamins for health, you need a boat to cross a river. I mean, Richard, you are talking about using immune boosters, so you aren't completely relying on faith to make you better, you are using the tools God has provided to treat what ails you. For you, Effexor and everything else didn't do it, for others they are life-savers.
>
> Best to you. Keep on keeping on. Keep your faith no matter what you find in the GNC store.


Thanks, Toby. You are the reason so many of us still have hope.

Richard


 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by yardena on August 1, 1999, at 9:37:51

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Toby on July 29, 1999, at 14:23:01

A couple of thoughts about what I have read here:

Regarding "off-label" uses of meds: The MDs who treat many many patients have informal discussions about combinations of meds used for "off-label" problems, ie, not for what the FDA approved the med for. In order to get FDA approval, someone has to do a large scientific study which costs a lot of money. Usually the only entities that are motivated to spend that kind of money are the drug companies that see it as an investment. So, for example, the drug Ritalin has been around a while, approved for ADD in kids. There is ample anectodal evidence of its use as an effective antidepressant augmentation medicine, but since it is relatively safe, and no one would stand to profit from funding a huge study, it does not get funding to be studied. All the doctors, and plenty of patients know it is an appropriate usage, but it is not officially FDA approved for this use. SO, the insurance companies often deny coverage of the prescription because it is an "off label" use.

Regarding varying competence,responsiveness of doctors: As in every profession, each medical doctor has his or her strenghts and weaknesses. And, the doctor-patient interaction is often a mysterious matter of interpersonal chemistry, so to speak. IF you are not comfortable with your doctor, you might be able to find another more suited to your needs. There may even be a psychiatrist out there who incorporates your religious perspectives into his work with you, which you will likely find comforting.

Regarding Richard's wholesale dismissal of antidepressants and psychiatry: Are you sure that you have to give up this source of caring for yourself in order to pursue your religious goals? Forgive me for being so forward, but there is a quality to what you have written that gives me the sense that you are approaching your religious rebirth in much the same way you approached everything before it--addictively. You sound like someone who tends to throw himself entirely into something in order to cope with the discomfort of life. The way you have coped with your frustration about the failure of effexxor to help you, seems much like the way someone might drown him or herself in any other addictive thing, like drugs or alcohol. For you, right now, it is the hope that your religious faith will SAVE you, will make all the frustrating things in life go away. I am not opposed to religion. If anything, I am very much in support of it. It can and most likely will be good for you. But don't expect it to do everything. I believe that there is no ONE answer to everything. Use your religion as a base, but don't eliminate all the other helpful things that exist in the world. If you throw yourself too hard into this illusion of religion solving everything, you are bound to become painfully disillusioned at some point. Find a doctor who is knowledgable about your religion and is willing to integrate it into the therapy.

I hope I have not been too forward in my comments. Best wishes. I know how frustrating the "dart board" of finding the right medicaiton can be. I am in the midst of a medication shift myself, because every few years, the "cocktail" I am using stops being effective, or starts producing more side effects. It is EXTREMELY frustating. But I don't believe it is a lie. It is a young and immature science/art that hopefully, will get more on target.

Good luck.

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Jim on August 1, 1999, at 15:57:30

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Toby on July 29, 1999, at 14:23:01

Toby wrote:
> Just couple things from the resident shrink->without-a-schedule...

>St. John's Wort is natural but can cause an >interaction with certain foods to cause lethal >hypertension.

Toby, please cite your source for this statement.

As far as I know, there have been NO REPORTS
at all of such a problem with St.John's Wort.
This can and does occur with MAOI's, but even
though an early IN VITRO experiment implied that
SJW might work like an MAOI, I have seen NO
REPORTS of these reactions despite MILLIONS of
users over many years.

Like other AD's, SJW works for some, not for
others. UNLIKE other AD's, it almost never
produces undesirable side-effects.

Jim

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by toby on August 10, 1999, at 10:18:48

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Jim on August 1, 1999, at 15:57:30

With regard to St. John's Wort interacting with foods containing tyramine and leading to lethal hypertension, Jim is correct that clinically this has not been seen. I did use the word "can" in my statement and I won't retract it because there is the potential for this to happen. There has been at least one reported case of an interaction of SJW with the SSRI Paxil in which a woman was taking SJW and then took a Paxil tablet she had left over from an old prescription and became extremely sedated to the point of not being able to get out of bed. This was reported in the American Family Physician journal in 1998. The way the most Americans think about herbals (non-toxic, harmless, yet good for you) and the way people think about medicine in general (if a little is good, more must be better) it would seem to be only a matter of time before somebody takes just the wrong combo of meds and herbs and combined with their own idiosyncratic metabolism, has a very bed reaction. However, that was not the point of my statement in the last post. It was only to point out that herbals are not completely harmless as the herbal industry would have us believe. You must treat them with the same respect as any prescribed medication. And one msut remember that the people working in many of the shops where herbals are sold are not experts (kudos to the ones who are) and even those who do know their stuff when it comes to herbals may not know all the nuances of what interacts with what when it comes to taking an herbal with another medication. If you don't believe me, perhaps you would believe that icon of scientific lore, People Magazine. I refer you to the Aug 2, 1999 issue, pages 105-109.

 

Re: The Effexor Lie To Toby

Posted by Paul on August 14, 1999, at 14:47:49

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by toby on August 10, 1999, at 10:18:48

> With regard to St. John's Wort interacting with foods containing tyramine and leading to lethal hypertension, Jim is correct that clinically this has not been seen. I did use the word "can" in my statement and I won't retract it because there is the potential for this to happen. There has been at least one reported case of an interaction of SJW with the SSRI Paxil in which a woman was taking SJW and then took a Paxil tablet she had left over from an old prescription and became extremely sedated to the point of not being able to get out of bed. This was reported in the American Family Physician journal in 1998. The way the most Americans think about herbals (non-toxic, harmless, yet good for you) and the way people think about medicine in general (if a little is good, more must be better) it would seem to be only a matter of time before somebody takes just the wrong combo of meds and herbs and combined with their own idiosyncratic metabolism, has a very bed reaction. However, that was not the point of my statement in the last post. It was only to point out that herbals are not completely harmless as the herbal industry would have us believe. You must treat them with the same respect as any prescribed medication. And one msut remember that the people working in many of the shops where herbals are sold are not experts (kudos to the ones who are) and even those who do know their stuff when it comes to herbals may not know all the nuances of what interacts with what when it comes to taking an herbal with another medication. If you don't believe me, perhaps you would believe that icon of scientific lore, People Magazine. I refer you to the Aug 2, 1999 issue, pages 105-109.
> Hi Toby,
I agree with many of your informative, thoughtful posts, and greatly appreciate the help/info. you provide on the board. As far as I know, you and Dr. Bob are the only shrinks who contribute to our board. Could that add to the feeling that many of us have, that many docs need to "see the wizard" to get a heart. You would think that a few more could interrupt their hectic schedules to stop by the board and educate themselves, as well as helping out some patients. I do greatly appreciate all the docs who do contribute, but could anything be done to encourage more professional participation? Even regular posts by a knowledgeable pharmacists, or two, would be greatly helpful. Thanks again for all the help you, and the others who participate in the board provide. Paul
>

 

Re: The Effexor Lie

Posted by Annie McNeil on August 16, 1999, at 0:28:20

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by toby on August 10, 1999, at 10:18:48

> With regard to St. John's Wort interacting with foods containing tyramine and leading to lethal hypertension, Jim is correct that clinically this has not been seen. I did use the word "can" in my statement and I won't retract it because there is the potential for this to happen. There has been at least one reported case of an interaction of SJW with the SSRI Paxil in which a woman was taking SJW and then took a Paxil tablet she had left over from an old prescription and became extremely sedated to the point of not being able to get out of bed. This was reported in the American Family Physician journal in 1998. The way the most Americans think about herbals (non-toxic, harmless, yet good for you) and the way people think about medicine in general (if a little is good, more must be better) it would seem to be only a matter of time before somebody takes just the wrong combo of meds and herbs and combined with their own idiosyncratic metabolism, has a very bed reaction. However, that was not the point of my statement in the last post. It was only to point out that herbals are not completely harmless as the herbal industry would have us believe. You must treat them with the same respect as any prescribed medication. And one msut remember that the people working in many of the shops where herbals are sold are not experts (kudos to the ones who are) and even those who do know their stuff when it comes to herbals may not know all the nuances of what interacts with what when it comes to taking an herbal with another medication. If you don't believe me, perhaps you would believe that icon of scientific lore, People Magazine. I refer you to the Aug 2, 1999 issue, pages 105-109.
>
>


People magazine, that icon of scientific lore!!! You're killin' me -LOL:)

 

Re: The Effexor Lie-Paxil/St Johns

Posted by JohnL on August 17, 1999, at 3:57:06

In reply to Re: The Effexor Lie, posted by Annie McNeil on August 16, 1999, at 0:28:20

Just wanted to confirm another situation of the Paxil+St Johns sedation Toby mentioned. I had been on St Johns for a few weeks, didn't think it was enough, added 10mg of leftover Paxil. I became so intensely sedated I had to pull off the road every 5 minutes to konk out. A drunk driver probably would have been safer, except at least I had the intact judegement to pull over. Went to bed at 5pm, woke at 10am next morning, and was still heavily sedated. St Johns with Zoloft was different, sort of a butterflies-in-the-stomach nervous feeling. Now with Prozac it seems neutral, kind of like a vitamin. I wonder why I keep trying it all, except I guess I have that instinctive desire for something "natural" to work. Anyway, the point of my post here is to agree with Toby that all ingredients of treatment, whether natural or prescription, deserve respect, caution, and responsibility. I heard a saying once, "There are no safe drugs, only safe doses". Sometimes even the tiniest dose isn't safe. You just never know. JohnL.


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