Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 8123

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Re: Please...

Posted by saintjames on July 2, 1999, at 1:01:41

In reply to Please..., posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 0:54:21

I don't usually do this but if you will email me off list I give you my phone number and you can call me anytime to talk. You are not alone, Racer.

If you don't feel comfortable with this (and even if you do) PLEASE keep on posting to the list so we can help.

stjames@la-tierra.com

 

Re: Please...

Posted by Brandon on July 2, 1999, at 1:28:12

In reply to Please..., posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 0:54:21

> Please don't ever give up! Everyone in here has faced enormous obstacles to find relief of their own pain. The lows can be unbearable but know that you are not alone and if you ever need to talk just post a message and I will reply. I went through a 1 and a half of HELL before I found a combination of of therapies that helped. Have faith and know that Christ loves you and will take care of you!

 

Re: Please...

Posted by Donna on July 2, 1999, at 1:31:55

In reply to Please..., posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 0:54:21

Thank goodness for the internet. At least I can feel as though I'm communicating my pain to someone, even if I never see anyone.)
> > >
> Please, someone tell me that it really won't be like this if we can find a decent doctor and adjust the meds. I can't begin to tell you how miserable I am. I really don't want to die, but honest to god I can't take this much more! Help me.

THE CAPS ARE INTENTIONAL> WE ARE OUT HERE AND WE DO HEAR HOW UNCOMFORTABLE YOU ARE> YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT> I CAN PERSONALLY PROMISE THIS>
KEEP WRITING AND WE WILL CONTINUE LISTENING> YOU HAVE HAD DARK DAYS BEFORE> YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT>

 

Re: Please...

Posted by JohnL on July 2, 1999, at 3:48:57

In reply to Re: Please..., posted by Donna on July 2, 1999, at 1:31:55

> Thank goodness for the internet. At least I can feel as though I'm communicating my pain to someone, even if I never see anyone.)
> > > >
> > Please, someone tell me that it really won't be like this if we can find a decent doctor and adjust the meds. I can't begin to tell you how miserable I am. I really don't want to die, but honest to god I can't take this much more! Help me.
>
> THE CAPS ARE INTENTIONAL> WE ARE OUT HERE AND WE DO HEAR HOW UNCOMFORTABLE YOU ARE> YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT> I CAN PERSONALLY PROMISE THIS>
> KEEP WRITING AND WE WILL CONTINUE LISTENING> YOU HAVE HAD DARK DAYS BEFORE> YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT>

I also am totally behind you! Glad you're here. I look forward to your posts. I recall you mentioning a long drive to a University or something like that. How are the plans for that going? Also, not to sound repetetive, I've mentioned it before, there are doctors probably within reasonable distance who would likely see you today or tomorrow and waive or postpone payment. They just don't know about you. Is there someway you can reach them? Phone? Letters? Please keep us posted. (((Racer))) :) JohnL.

 

It's gotten worse.

Posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 13:12:08

In reply to Re: Please..., posted by JohnL on July 2, 1999, at 3:48:57

This is so bad. I don't want to survive this day. It's just too bad to go on with.

This morning I called the clinic here in town, to find out why the county wouldn't return my calls. They said that my request for a transfer has been on hold for the last three weeks! No one bothered to call me. All I knew was that no one was returning my calls. They wouldn't tell me why the request was put on hold.

I told the fellow I spoke with this morning most of what I've said here. Including the part about I don't know if I can survive as long as it will take to get an appointment, let alone long enough for them to satisfy their need to go over every aspect of my treatment to date and all the things that are wrong with me and not wrong with their doctor.

For today, I can still say that the only thing wrong with me in severe depression, while what's wrong with their doctor is much more serious. She is at best marginally competant, and lacks some pretty critical skills for her field. (After all, when a psychiatric patient says she's ready to commit suicide, shouldn't that warrant some sort of response?) Even so, and even though I really do know that I have something to offer the world, I really can't take any more pain. This hurts too much, and there's no one to help me with it. I'm much too alone, and have no one to turn to for support.

I want them either to treat me with something that will help, or to offer me a lethal injection. Just as long as it happens fast. If this pain is the prelude to something better, to feeling better and being able to function again, then maybe I can stand it. But it seems more and more that it's the prelude to worse and worse. That I can't stand. For that, I'd rather they had let me kill myself last year, so that I could have escaped this torment.

I just can't believe all this is happening. It's even worse than I could ever have imagined.

 

Re: It's gotten worse.

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 1999, at 14:18:41

In reply to It's gotten worse., posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 13:12:08

> This is so bad. I don't want to survive this day. It's just too bad to go on with.

If it's that bad, you probably should consider being hospitalized. Better safe than sorry. Please take care,

Bob

 

Re: It's gotten worse.

Posted by Annie on July 2, 1999, at 16:06:51

In reply to It's gotten worse., posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 13:12:08

Racer, Bob is right. It sounds like you might be better off in a hospital right now. I know it sounds frightening and I don't know if you've been in-patient before, but when it gets as bad as you say, you need a break. You make the area where you live sound like the boondocks, but there must be a decent hospital with a Psych department within driving distance. Plunk yourself down in the emergency room and tell them what you're feeling. At least maybe you'll feel safer around all those doctors. Maybe it was a false sense of security but I know I felt better. The pain was so bad I thought I had gone beyond depression into the crazy zone. I was afraid if I cried or screamed I'd never stop. I figured at the very least if I started screaming around those doctors they'd give me something to keep me quiet. Being alone right now is the worse thing. (Well in honesty, being with my mother would be worse for me. I hope yours is being more supportive.) The most important thing right now is to feel safe and be safe. Email me if I can help in any way. I really mean it. Annie


> This is so bad. I don't want to survive this day. It's just too bad to go on with.
>
> This morning I called the clinic here in town, to find out why the county wouldn't return my calls. They said that my request for a transfer has been on hold for the last three weeks! No one bothered to call me. All I knew was that no one was returning my calls. They wouldn't tell me why the request was put on hold.
>
> I told the fellow I spoke with this morning most of what I've said here. Including the part about I don't know if I can survive as long as it will take to get an appointment, let alone long enough for them to satisfy their need to go over every aspect of my treatment to date and all the things that are wrong with me and not wrong with their doctor.
>
> For today, I can still say that the only thing wrong with me in severe depression, while what's wrong with their doctor is much more serious. She is at best marginally competant, and lacks some pretty critical skills for her field. (After all, when a psychiatric patient says she's ready to commit suicide, shouldn't that warrant some sort of response?) Even so, and even though I really do know that I have something to offer the world, I really can't take any more pain. This hurts too much, and there's no one to help me with it. I'm much too alone, and have no one to turn to for support.
>
> I want them either to treat me with something that will help, or to offer me a lethal injection. Just as long as it happens fast. If this pain is the prelude to something better, to feeling better and being able to function again, then maybe I can stand it. But it seems more and more that it's the prelude to worse and worse. That I can't stand. For that, I'd rather they had let me kill myself last year, so that I could have escaped this torment.
>
> I just can't believe all this is happening. It's even worse than I could ever have imagined.

 

Re: It's gotten worse.

Posted by Deb on July 2, 1999, at 16:21:23

In reply to Re: It's gotten worse., posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 1999, at 14:18:41

Racer,
Of course you don't want to hear this now, but it is time for hospitalization. I've been in somewhat the situation you're in now, and thank God my psychiatrist wouldn't let me leave his office until my papers were in order to go to a psych. unit. I was furious at him at the time, but now I see he saved my life. It sounds like you're in no shape to make decisions right now, let someone help you. Will be keeping you in my prayers,
Deb

 

Re: It's gotten worse.

Posted by Leonora on July 2, 1999, at 17:43:34

In reply to It's gotten worse., posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 13:12:08

> If I can ask, where is this awful place you live? What about your mom? Can you get to any other facility where you might get into a hospital? You really need to get in a hospital. We're with you.

 

I almost did today

Posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 17:57:06

In reply to Re: It's gotten worse., posted by Dr. Bob on July 2, 1999, at 14:18:41

> > This is so bad. I don't want to survive this day. It's just too bad to go on with.
>
> If it's that bad, you probably should consider being hospitalized. Better safe than sorry. Please take care,
>
> Bob

I almost went up to the hospital today. This was my regular day for giving blood (apheresis), so I was near the hospital, and considered going up there and telling them to check me in. On the other hand, I don't want to be there. Here, at least, if I get an ounce of motivation, maybe I can do something that might improve my life, like clean the cat boxes or something. There, nothing good will happen.

Here's the thing: I went three weeks ago and talked to a doctor there in the psych emergency department. She said, outright, that even if they did check me in, no one there would consider changing my medication since it was prescribed by one of their doctors. She told me outright that I would have to go to the doctor who has been treating me and get her to do something. I don't know what she expects this babe to do, besides driving me closer to the edge every time I'm unfortunate enough to have to speak with her about anything at all. I don't really see the point of being locked up, just to come back feeling just as bad. If I thought they would do anything helpful for me there, I would have gone today.

This whole system is making me crazy. Or at least, crazier. What I want to know is what happens to other people? I'm highly intelligent by any standards, I have experience in getting through bureaucracies, I know how to escalate up through the ranks until you get an answer that works. What happens to people who can't do that? If I didn't have enough of that inside me, I'd have killed myself before now. At least so far I've been able to start turning my anger in a more appropriate direction.

I really can't believe that that pathetic excuse for a doctor would tell me that wanting to kill myself is a sign that the drugs are working! What, she thinks that I should kill myself? Am I really that bad? (OK, some little voice in my mind tells me that she's jealous. I'm tall, very slender right now from the depression, and pretty if you like the Jody Foster/Bridget Fonda type. I'm also very smart and very articulate. I don't suffer fools gladly, and can't always hide that. She's got a medical degree, and that's the only thing I can see that she's got going for her. I know that six months ago, when I first tried to switch doctors, that other people have had similar complaints about her. Still, this is just too much.)

Thank you all for responding. I wish one of you worked in this damn county system! Maybe then I'd get some relief.

 

Re: It's gotten worse.

Posted by Cass on July 2, 1999, at 18:13:27

In reply to Re: It's gotten worse., posted by Leonora on July 2, 1999, at 17:43:34

> > If I can ask, where is this awful place you live? What about your mom? Can you get to any other facility where you might get into a hospital? You really need to get in a hospital. We're with you.

Lenora, County health facilties are nightmarish even in the most affluent areas.

Racer, I too have had horrible and frustrating experiences with county mental health facilities. All I want say is that you have a lot of people here pulling for you. We need sensitive, intelligent people in this world, and you're obviously one of them. Please, please hang in there.

Cass

 

Almost 'don't' count

Posted by Annie on July 3, 1999, at 9:56:57

In reply to I almost did today, posted by Racer on July 2, 1999, at 17:57:06

Okay Racer, I'm going to try again. If you are constantly suicidal you have to get help. You need a rest from not feeling safe. If you are still suicidal in the hospital, I find it hard to believe that all those doctors would risk a malpractice suit by not changing your meds when appropriate. Even if they don't change your meds in the hospital you would at least feel safe.
Racer, I am beginning to suspect the depression is causing a huge case of what I call 'yes buts' in you. Are you afraid to accept any help because it may not work? You have to do something besides vent here. Unfortunately, you may be right that many people will get bored with responding if you don't take any of the offers of help. You haven't emailed me to let me try to and I only hope you did email saintjames. We are sincere in our caring. We've been there. We understand. I can tell you are highly intelligent, but you have to stop intellectualizing everything. LOL. How many folks interview the ER doctor about proposed treatment plans when they are suicidal? You already assume you would not improve in the hospital. You assume they would not change your meds because one doc who may have had a bad day said so.(You may have pushed ALL her buttons Racer, if I'm picturing the scenario with any accuracy.) Give it a rest Racer and give yourself a rest. If you are still suicidal when you read this, hop in the car and drive to the hospital. Tell them you need to be safe. Let them see your pain. I know it is hard becuse it makes you vulnerable, but do it. Save the interviewing technique until you are safe. I want you here Racer. I want you to be able to email me when your trust level is higher. I told you once that I resonate to your way of thinking and your dry sense of humor. I'm sure others, like James feel the same. Be safe, Racer. I honestly care.
Annie


> I almost went up to the hospital today. This was my regular day for giving blood (apheresis), so I was near the hospital, and considered going up there and telling them to check me in. On the other hand, I don't want to be there. Here, at least, if I get an ounce of motivation, maybe I can do something that might improve my life, like clean the cat boxes or something. There, nothing good will happen.
>
> Here's the thing: I went three weeks ago and talked to a doctor there in the psych emergency department. She said, outright, that even if they did check me in, no one there would consider changing my medication since it was prescribed by one of their doctors. She told me outright that I would have to go to the doctor who has been treating me and get her to do something. I don't know what she expects this babe to do, besides driving me closer to the edge every time I'm unfortunate enough to have to speak with her about anything at all. I don't really see the point of being locked up, just to come back feeling just as bad. If I thought they would do anything helpful for me there, I would have gone today.
>
> This whole system is making me crazy. Or at least, crazier. What I want to know is what happens to other people? I'm highly intelligent by any standards, I have experience in getting through bureaucracies, I know how to escalate up through the ranks until you get an answer that works. What happens to people who can't do that? If I didn't have enough of that inside me, I'd have killed myself before now. At least so far I've been able to start turning my anger in a more appropriate direction.
>
> I really can't believe that that pathetic excuse for a doctor would tell me that wanting to kill myself is a sign that the drugs are working! What, she thinks that I should kill myself? Am I really that bad? (OK, some little voice in my mind tells me that she's jealous. I'm tall, very slender right now from the depression, and pretty if you like the Jody Foster/Bridget Fonda type. I'm also very smart and very articulate. I don't suffer fools gladly, and can't always hide that. She's got a medical degree, and that's the only thing I can see that she's got going for her. I know that six months ago, when I first tried to switch doctors, that other people have had similar complaints about her. Still, this is just too much.)
>
> Thank you all for responding. I wish one of you worked in this damn county system! Maybe then I'd get some relief.

 

Re: Almost 'don't' count

Posted by Judy on July 3, 1999, at 12:17:38

In reply to Almost 'don't' count, posted by Annie on July 3, 1999, at 9:56:57

Racer,

I didn't dare say it last night when I read your latest post, but Annie said it for me, so I guess I'll give it a try too:

Please try to absorb this - YOU HAVE REACHED THE STAGE WHERE YOU ARE NO LONGER RATIONALLY CONSIDERING YOUR SITUATION!!! You need outside help to make decisions for you. Many of us have been there - It's a very dangerous place to be. Please understand this about yourself right now. Please? So many of us here care and have tried to help you find the right direction. I'm not even sure our words are reaching you anymore.

You need to stop making the excuses of the deeply depressed (you feel you should stick around and empty the kitty litter pans? Racer - look at what your rationale has become!!!) Let someone else take control for a little while. Please?

Judy

> Okay Racer, I'm going to try again. If you are constantly suicidal you have to get help. You need a rest from not feeling safe. If you are still suicidal in the hospital, I find it hard to believe that all those doctors would risk a malpractice suit by not changing your meds when appropriate. Even if they don't change your meds in the hospital you would at least feel safe.
> Racer, I am beginning to suspect the depression is causing a huge case of what I call 'yes buts' in you. Are you afraid to accept any help because it may not work? You have to do something besides vent here. Unfortunately, you may be right that many people will get bored with responding if you don't take any of the offers of help. You haven't emailed me to let me try to and I only hope you did email saintjames. We are sincere in our caring. We've been there. We understand. I can tell you are highly intelligent, but you have to stop intellectualizing everything. LOL. How many folks interview the ER doctor about proposed treatment plans when they are suicidal? You already assume you would not improve in the hospital. You assume they would not change your meds because one doc who may have had a bad day said so.(You may have pushed ALL her buttons Racer, if I'm picturing the scenario with any accuracy.) Give it a rest Racer and give yourself a rest. If you are still suicidal when you read this, hop in the car and drive to the hospital. Tell them you need to be safe. Let them see your pain. I know it is hard becuse it makes you vulnerable, but do it. Save the interviewing technique until you are safe. I want you here Racer. I want you to be able to email me when your trust level is higher. I told you once that I resonate to your way of thinking and your dry sense of humor. I'm sure others, like James feel the same. Be safe, Racer. I honestly care.
> Annie
>
>
> > I almost went up to the hospital today. This was my regular day for giving blood (apheresis), so I was near the hospital, and considered going up there and telling them to check me in. On the other hand, I don't want to be there. Here, at least, if I get an ounce of motivation, maybe I can do something that might improve my life, like clean the cat boxes or something. There, nothing good will happen.
> >
> > Here's the thing: I went three weeks ago and talked to a doctor there in the psych emergency department. She said, outright, that even if they did check me in, no one there would consider changing my medication since it was prescribed by one of their doctors. She told me outright that I would have to go to the doctor who has been treating me and get her to do something. I don't know what she expects this babe to do, besides driving me closer to the edge every time I'm unfortunate enough to have to speak with her about anything at all. I don't really see the point of being locked up, just to come back feeling just as bad. If I thought they would do anything helpful for me there, I would have gone today.
> >
> > This whole system is making me crazy. Or at least, crazier. What I want to know is what happens to other people? I'm highly intelligent by any standards, I have experience in getting through bureaucracies, I know how to escalate up through the ranks until you get an answer that works. What happens to people who can't do that? If I didn't have enough of that inside me, I'd have killed myself before now. At least so far I've been able to start turning my anger in a more appropriate direction.
> >
> > I really can't believe that that pathetic excuse for a doctor would tell me that wanting to kill myself is a sign that the drugs are working! What, she thinks that I should kill myself? Am I really that bad? (OK, some little voice in my mind tells me that she's jealous. I'm tall, very slender right now from the depression, and pretty if you like the Jody Foster/Bridget Fonda type. I'm also very smart and very articulate. I don't suffer fools gladly, and can't always hide that. She's got a medical degree, and that's the only thing I can see that she's got going for her. I know that six months ago, when I first tried to switch doctors, that other people have had similar complaints about her. Still, this is just too much.)
> >
> > Thank you all for responding. I wish one of you worked in this damn county system! Maybe then I'd get some relief.

 

Judy, what that meant was...

Posted by Racer on July 3, 1999, at 15:19:51

In reply to Re: Almost 'don't' count, posted by Judy on July 3, 1999, at 12:17:38


> You need to stop making the excuses of the deeply depressed (you feel you should stick around and empty the kitty litter pans? Racer - look at what your rationale has become!!!) Let someone else take control for a little while. Please?
>
> Judy
>
Judy,

By that, I only meant that if the hospital couldn't do anything constructive for me, at least I might finally do something constructive for myself. If I got a little motivation going, I might do some cleaning, and make my life that much better than it would be to come home from the hospital, with nothing changed, and the living room needing to be vacuumed and the cat boxes needing to be cleaned and the dishes needing to be washed still. Does that make any sense?

I did call the hospital last night. If you read my earlier post this morning, it tells the story. The fellow I spoke with told me again that medications would not be adjusted during a hospital stay, and that it wouldn't make any difference in getting to see a new doctor. Everything he said left me with the impression that it really wouldn't make a difference, except that I wouldn't have the options available to me here: sewing, smoking when I want to, cuddling my cats, cleaning the house, calling someone, or writing to all of you. Writing here does help, and I can express myself much better in writing than in person. In person, I'm a little inarticulate. OK, so a lot inarticulate. Even though Annie said she could see me interviewing the doctors in the hospital intake about my treatment, that's most unlikely! Made me laugh, since I tend to hide a lot in those situations. It's hard for me to show any signs of intelligence in person. In writing, it's a lot easier.

Thank you again for what you've had to say. I do hear it. Unfortunately, I also hear what the people at the hospital had to say last night on the telephone: don't come in, we won't help you.

That's not a misperception, either. We are talking about a county hospital which is only in the business of warehousing the sickest of the sick. They only take people they deem a danger to themselves or others, and since their space is so limited, they tend to take those who are a danger to others before they worry about those of us who might be a danger to ourselves. The fact that I'm still well enough to reach out for help, rather than doing something to harm myself is enough for them to send me home. They said so last time I went up there, about four weeks ago. They sent me home then, saying that they couldn't do anything for me in the hospital, despite the fact that I was crying copiously on the sofa of the office, and begging them to help me. They still said that there was nothing they could do for me there, and that I'd have to work it out with the doctor I was seeing already.

Short of finding a lawyer to put the fear of Insurance into them, I don't know what else I can do. I'm trying to hold on until something happens, and I really do appreciate the lifeline I have found here.

Thank you to everyone, and please put up with me a little longer.

 

Re: We're Not Putting Up With You!

Posted by Judy on July 3, 1999, at 16:27:34

In reply to Judy, what that meant was..., posted by Racer on July 3, 1999, at 15:19:51

Racer,

I knew what you meant, Sweetie, and I wasn't trying to insult you! Tough love is hard to convey in writing, but that's what I was trying to project. Just five weeks ago, I sat in my shrink's office and whispered (because that was all I could manage I was so deep in the black hole) that I didn't want to take AD's anymore - couldn't take the side effects, etc. - and he literally screamed at me (thought he was going to slap me!) to listen to myself with any part of my logical mind that I had left.

Of course I started to cry, but I took the prescription for Nardil (which we both knew had worked well for me before) that he shoved into my hand and he made me promise to fill it and take it immediately or we'd be discussing ECT or hospitalization. I did what he said because I didn't know what else to do; and soon I was feeling well enough to make my own decisions again.

My heart just breaks every time I read your posts about your incompetent doctor, your being "put on hold," the distance you are from more competent medical help. I wish I could drive to where you are, pick you up and help you find someone, somewhere who would give you the time, respect and help you deserve. I don't think there's a person on this bulletin board who doesn't feel the same way and isn't frustrated to death by your inability to get someone competent to listen to you. Your situation is truly deplorable and if you can dredge up the " oomph" at some point, I'd definitely advise that you call in some legal 'heat' or at least report these people to whomever their "Grand Poobah" is (There must be some kind of regulatory agency in charge of all these oafs, isn't there?).

I did read your later post (I think we were on at the same time) and I'm relieved to find there is someone there for you now. Please let him help you. Hopefully even knowing he is there for you may give you some measure of confidence. But the point remains, you've GOT to find someone to help you even if it takes your last ounce of strength.

Nobody here is "putting up with you" - we're all pulling like crazy for you!

Judy


> > You need to stop making the excuses of the deeply depressed (you feel you should stick around and empty the kitty litter pans? Racer - look at what your rationale has become!!!) Let someone else take control for a little while. Please?
> >
> > Judy
> >
> Judy,
>
> By that, I only meant that if the hospital couldn't do anything constructive for me, at least I might finally do something constructive for myself. If I got a little motivation going, I might do some cleaning, and make my life that much better than it would be to come home from the hospital, with nothing changed, and the living room needing to be vacuumed and the cat boxes needing to be cleaned and the dishes needing to be washed still. Does that make any sense?
>
> I did call the hospital last night. If you read my earlier post this morning, it tells the story. The fellow I spoke with told me again that medications would not be adjusted during a hospital stay, and that it wouldn't make any difference in getting to see a new doctor. Everything he said left me with the impression that it really wouldn't make a difference, except that I wouldn't have the options available to me here: sewing, smoking when I want to, cuddling my cats, cleaning the house, calling someone, or writing to all of you. Writing here does help, and I can express myself much better in writing than in person. In person, I'm a little inarticulate. OK, so a lot inarticulate. Even though Annie said she could see me interviewing the doctors in the hospital intake about my treatment, that's most unlikely! Made me laugh, since I tend to hide a lot in those situations. It's hard for me to show any signs of intelligence in person. In writing, it's a lot easier.
>
> Thank you again for what you've had to say. I do hear it. Unfortunately, I also hear what the people at the hospital had to say last night on the telephone: don't come in, we won't help you.
>
> That's not a misperception, either. We are talking about a county hospital which is only in the business of warehousing the sickest of the sick. They only take people they deem a danger to themselves or others, and since their space is so limited, they tend to take those who are a danger to others before they worry about those of us who might be a danger to ourselves. The fact that I'm still well enough to reach out for help, rather than doing something to harm myself is enough for them to send me home. They said so last time I went up there, about four weeks ago. They sent me home then, saying that they couldn't do anything for me in the hospital, despite the fact that I was crying copiously on the sofa of the office, and begging them to help me. They still said that there was nothing they could do for me there, and that I'd have to work it out with the doctor I was seeing already.
>
> Short of finding a lawyer to put the fear of Insurance into them, I don't know what else I can do. I'm trying to hold on until something happens, and I really do appreciate the lifeline I have found here.
>
> Thank you to everyone, and please put up with me a little longer.

 

Re: We're Not Putting Up With You!

Posted by Ruth on July 3, 1999, at 21:28:32

In reply to Re: We're Not Putting Up With You!, posted by Judy on July 3, 1999, at 16:27:34

I want to add my support. I'm sorry you are in such a bind. From all your posts it seems clear that you do need to be in a hospital. Being safe is the first priority, switching medications is the second.
I don't think that the hospital can know what they will or won't do until they've had a chance to evaluate you beyond what they can do in the emergency room. After you're admitted you need to explain to your doctor that you really feel that you can no longer work with your therapist and need to switch to someone else. You can also explain your reactions to the different meds so they understand why you feel the need to try something else. If need be ask to speak to the director of the inpatient unit to explain your situation.
But for starters get yourself safe- go to the hospital.


Racer,
>
> I knew what you meant, Sweetie, and I wasn't trying to insult you! Tough love is hard to convey in writing, but that's what I was trying to project. Just five weeks ago, I sat in my shrink's office and whispered (because that was all I could manage I was so deep in the black hole) that I didn't want to take AD's anymore - couldn't take the side effects, etc. - and he literally screamed at me (thought he was going to slap me!) to listen to myself with any part of my logical mind that I had left.
>
> Of course I started to cry, but I took the prescription for Nardil (which we both knew had worked well for me before) that he shoved into my hand and he made me promise to fill it and take it immediately or we'd be discussing ECT or hospitalization. I did what he said because I didn't know what else to do; and soon I was feeling well enough to make my own decisions again.
>
> My heart just breaks every time I read your posts about your incompetent doctor, your being "put on hold," the distance you are from more competent medical help. I wish I could drive to where you are, pick you up and help you find someone, somewhere who would give you the time, respect and help you deserve. I don't think there's a person on this bulletin board who doesn't feel the same way and isn't frustrated to death by your inability to get someone competent to listen to you. Your situation is truly deplorable and if you can dredge up the " oomph" at some point, I'd definitely advise that you call in some legal 'heat' or at least report these people to whomever their "Grand Poobah" is (There must be some kind of regulatory agency in charge of all these oafs, isn't there?).
>
> I did read your later post (I think we were on at the same time) and I'm relieved to find there is someone there for you now. Please let him help you. Hopefully even knowing he is there for you may give you some measure of confidence. But the point remains, you've GOT to find someone to help you even if it takes your last ounce of strength.
>
> Nobody here is "putting up with you" - we're all pulling like crazy for you!
>
> Judy
>
>
> > > You need to stop making the excuses of the deeply depressed (you feel you should stick around and empty the kitty litter pans? Racer - look at what your rationale has become!!!) Let someone else take control for a little while. Please?
> > >
> > > Judy
> > >
> > Judy,
> >
> > By that, I only meant that if the hospital couldn't do anything constructive for me, at least I might finally do something constructive for myself. If I got a little motivation going, I might do some cleaning, and make my life that much better than it would be to come home from the hospital, with nothing changed, and the living room needing to be vacuumed and the cat boxes needing to be cleaned and the dishes needing to be washed still. Does that make any sense?
> >
> > I did call the hospital last night. If you read my earlier post this morning, it tells the story. The fellow I spoke with told me again that medications would not be adjusted during a hospital stay, and that it wouldn't make any difference in getting to see a new doctor. Everything he said left me with the impression that it really wouldn't make a difference, except that I wouldn't have the options available to me here: sewing, smoking when I want to, cuddling my cats, cleaning the house, calling someone, or writing to all of you. Writing here does help, and I can express myself much better in writing than in person. In person, I'm a little inarticulate. OK, so a lot inarticulate. Even though Annie said she could see me interviewing the doctors in the hospital intake about my treatment, that's most unlikely! Made me laugh, since I tend to hide a lot in those situations. It's hard for me to show any signs of intelligence in person. In writing, it's a lot easier.
> >
> > Thank you again for what you've had to say. I do hear it. Unfortunately, I also hear what the people at the hospital had to say last night on the telephone: don't come in, we won't help you.
> >
> > That's not a misperception, either. We are talking about a county hospital which is only in the business of warehousing the sickest of the sick. They only take people they deem a danger to themselves or others, and since their space is so limited, they tend to take those who are a danger to others before they worry about those of us who might be a danger to ourselves. The fact that I'm still well enough to reach out for help, rather than doing something to harm myself is enough for them to send me home. They said so last time I went up there, about four weeks ago. They sent me home then, saying that they couldn't do anything for me in the hospital, despite the fact that I was crying copiously on the sofa of the office, and begging them to help me. They still said that there was nothing they could do for me there, and that I'd have to work it out with the doctor I was seeing already.
> >
> > Short of finding a lawyer to put the fear of Insurance into them, I don't know what else I can do. I'm trying to hold on until something happens, and I really do appreciate the lifeline I have found here.
> >
> > Thank you to everyone, and please put up with me a little longer.

 

Re: Judy, what that meant was...

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 1999, at 17:26:46

In reply to Judy, what that meant was..., posted by Racer on July 3, 1999, at 15:19:51

> In person, I'm a little inarticulate. OK, so a lot inarticulate. Even though Annie said she could see me interviewing the doctors in the hospital intake about my treatment, that's most unlikely! Made me laugh, since I tend to hide a lot in those situations. It's hard for me to show any signs of intelligence in person.

So it might be an interesting exercise? :-)

> We are talking about a county hospital which is only in the business of warehousing the sickest of the sick...
>
> Short of finding a lawyer to put the fear of Insurance into them, I don't know what else I can do.

Might a differerent hospital be an option? The next county, maybe?

Bob

 

Re: Judy, what that meant was...

Posted by Racer on July 5, 1999, at 19:35:36

In reply to Re: Judy, what that meant was..., posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 1999, at 17:26:46

>
> Might a differerent hospital be an option? The next county, maybe?
>
> Bob

I called around to all the other hospitals in the area, including Langley Porter in San Francisco. None of them will take me, saying that the local county hospital will if I need to be hospitalized, and if that one won't, well, I don't need to be in the hospital.

This really is a nightmare. Tomorrow is the day they're supposed to decide on my transfer. They also promised to tell me what they decide. I'll believe it when I see it.

Today I'm miserable again. Just dreadful.

 

Re: Judy, what that meant was...

Posted by Cynthia on July 5, 1999, at 23:34:39

In reply to Re: Judy, what that meant was..., posted by Racer on July 5, 1999, at 19:35:36

>Racer

Do you think these incompetent health care people are triggers for or increase your tendency to have suicidal depression?

Sorry to hear you're feeling miserable again. I know these people and the problems you've been having would most likely increase my likelihood of becoming depressed. If they are, the cycle has got to stop, and hopefully right away.

Take care and call your mother or your boyfriend if things get worse,

Cynthia

 

Re: Judy, what that meant was...

Posted by Racer on July 5, 1999, at 23:49:21

In reply to Re: Judy, what that meant was..., posted by Cynthia on July 5, 1999, at 23:34:39

> >Racer
>
> Do you think these incompetent health care people are triggers for or increase your tendency to have suicidal depression?
>
> Sorry to hear you're feeling miserable again. I know these people and the problems you've been having would most likely increase my likelihood of becoming depressed. If they are, the cycle has got to stop, and hopefully right away.
>
> Take care and call your mother or your boyfriend if things get worse,
>
> Cynthia

Well, I can safely say that they don't help at all. Thank god for the therapist I found who is wiliing to see me, she made me promise to check in with her every day until the decision was made, and she keeps reminding me that I signed a contract not to kill myself while I was a client of hers. I don't know if she believes me that I will cancell the contract wit hher before doing anything, but I promise that it's on my mind that I can't do anything in good conscience until it's cancelled. Thank god and bob for this board, too.

It's hellish for me to wait until someone who's never spoken to me decides my fate. And wondering what is being said about me by that idiot doctor is hard, too. It's certainly making me feel more alone, and abandoned. That does trigger the suicidal impulses. As soon as I typed that line, I started crying again. I really do feel as though I'm always alone and always having to fight to get anything I need. I'm tired of it. I want someone else to help me fight for a change.

As for my mother, her heart is in the right place, but she was here for four hours yesterday, because she decided that she had to clean my apartment to make me feel better. In four hours of working diligently, she cleaned one bathroom. I could have done it in half an hour, and gotten something else done, too, but she has to do it her way: on hands and knees, with a sponge, rather than a mop. Then she vacuumed the living room - again on her hands and knees with a tiny canister vacuum. I could have done it with the upright in one quarter the time, and done a better job, too. So, while she means well, she also makes me shake with frustration. I guess that's because our mothers can train us to react to anything they do, huh?

 

I sympathize but..

Posted by wondering on July 6, 1999, at 9:19:18

In reply to Re: Judy, what that meant was..., posted by Racer on July 5, 1999, at 23:49:21

Racer!
Although I do believe that you are suffering mightily, some things
don't make sense about your situation. You state that you can't afford
the usual therapist fees (even when scaled), yet you mention owning a
horse. I have friends who own them and they are a bigger bottomless money
drain than a boat, even when completely healthy. Also, you have just referred
to your mom coming over to your apartment - living (I infer) alone, again from
previous messages. Plus your cat, etc. leads one to believe that you must
a)work, or b)have some other source of income (inheritance, etc.).
Racer, are YOU being as honest with YOURSELF as you could be? The previous
message from Judy was similar to a reality check I got from a doc when he also
said (essentialy) "Stop screwing around - decide to get better!"
Racer, you CAN move mountains - everybody here is pulling for you. But NO ONE
can make it work but YOU. My secret when things get SO bad that I have considered
ending it is: I don't want anybody going through my stuff afterwards! Because then
THEY'RE the winners. Just think about it. YOU can do it!

 

Re: We're Not Putting Up With You!

Posted by katie on July 6, 1999, at 10:49:34

In reply to Re: We're Not Putting Up With You!, posted by Ruth on July 3, 1999, at 21:28:32

> I want to add my support. I'm sorry you are in such a bind. From all your posts it seems clear that you do need to be in a hospital. Being safe is the first priority, switching medications is the second.
> I don't think that the hospital can know what they will or won't do until they've had a chance to evaluate you beyond what they can do in the emergency room. After you're admitted you need to explain to your doctor that you really feel that you can no longer work with your therapist and need to switch to someone else. You can also explain your reactions to the different meds so they understand why you feel the need to try something else. If need be ask to speak to the director of the inpatient unit to explain your situation.
> But for starters get yourself safe- go to the hospital.
>
>
> Racer,
> >
> > I knew what you meant, Sweetie, and I wasn't trying to insult you! Tough love is hard to convey in writing, but that's what I was trying to project. Just five weeks ago, I sat in my shrink's office and whispered (because that was all I could manage I was so deep in the black hole) that I didn't want to take AD's anymore - couldn't take the side effects, etc. - and he literally screamed at me (thought he was going to slap me!) to listen to myself with any part of my logical mind that I had left.
> >
> > Of course I started to cry, but I took the prescription for Nardil (which we both knew had worked well for me before) that he shoved into my hand and he made me promise to fill it and take it immediately or we'd be discussing ECT or hospitalization. I did what he said because I didn't know what else to do; and soon I was feeling well enough to make my own decisions again.
> >
> > My heart just breaks every time I read your posts about your incompetent doctor, your being "put on hold," the distance you are from more competent medical help. I wish I could drive to where you are, pick you up and help you find someone, somewhere who would give you the time, respect and help you deserve. I don't think there's a person on this bulletin board who doesn't feel the same way and isn't frustrated to death by your inability to get someone competent to listen to you. Your situation is truly deplorable and if you can dredge up the " oomph" at some point, I'd definitely advise that you call in some legal 'heat' or at least report these people to whomever their "Grand Poobah" is (There must be some kind of regulatory agency in charge of all these oafs, isn't there?).
> >
> > I did read your later post (I think we were on at the same time) and I'm relieved to find there is someone there for you now. Please let him help you. Hopefully even knowing he is there for you may give you some measure of confidence. But the point remains, you've GOT to find someone to help you even if it takes your last ounce of strength.
> >
> > Nobody here is "putting up with you" - we're all pulling like crazy for you!
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> > > > You need to stop making the excuses of the deeply depressed (you feel you should stick around and empty the kitty litter pans? Racer - look at what your rationale has become!!!) Let someone else take control for a little while. Please?
> > > >
> > > > Judy
> > > >
> > > Judy,
> > >
> > > By that, I only meant that if the hospital couldn't do anything constructive for me, at least I might finally do something constructive for myself. If I got a little motivation going, I might do some cleaning, and make my life that much better than it would be to come home from the hospital, with nothing changed, and the living room needing to be vacuumed and the cat boxes needing to be cleaned and the dishes needing to be washed still. Does that make any sense?
> > >
> > > I did call the hospital last night. If you read my earlier post this morning, it tells the story. The fellow I spoke with told me again that medications would not be adjusted during a hospital stay, and that it wouldn't make any difference in getting to see a new doctor. Everything he said left me with the impression that it really wouldn't make a difference, except that I wouldn't have the options available to me here: sewing, smoking when I want to, cuddling my cats, cleaning the house, calling someone, or writing to all of you. Writing here does help, and I can express myself much better in writing than in person. In person, I'm a little inarticulate. OK, so a lot inarticulate. Even though Annie said she could see me interviewing the doctors in the hospital intake about my treatment, that's most unlikely! Made me laugh, since I tend to hide a lot in those situations. It's hard for me to show any signs of intelligence in person. In writing, it's a lot easier.
> > >
> > > Thank you again for what you've had to say. I do hear it. Unfortunately, I also hear what the people at the hospital had to say last night on the telephone: don't come in, we won't help you.
> > >
> > > That's not a misperception, either. We are talking about a county hospital which is only in the business of warehousing the sickest of the sick. They only take people they deem a danger to themselves or others, and since their space is so limited, they tend to take those who are a danger to others before they worry about those of us who might be a danger to ourselves. The fact that I'm still well enough to reach out for help, rather than doing something to harm myself is enough for them to send me home. They said so last time I went up there, about four weeks ago. They sent me home then, saying that they couldn't do anything for me in the hospital, despite the fact that I was crying copiously on the sofa of the office, and begging them to help me. They still said that there was nothing they could do for me there, and that I'd have to work it out with the doctor I was seeing already.
> > >
> > > Short of finding a lawyer to put the fear of Insurance into them, I don't know what else I can do. I'm trying to hold on until something happens, and I really do appreciate the lifeline I have found here.
> > >
> > > Thank you to everyone, and please put up with me a little longer.

**************************************
**************************************
I just thought I'd add my vote of confidance and say that although this period of your life seems really crappy...have faith...it WILL get better. I've been there myself and had to practically diagnose myself for the doctor before I finally got the meds that were successful. Just hang in there and give yourself some time to struggle for the peace of mind you assuredly deserve. I'm sure the outcome will be worth sticking-it-out.

All my best regards and God bless you---Katie

 

Re: I sympathize but..

Posted by Racer on July 6, 1999, at 11:03:47

In reply to I sympathize but.., posted by wondering on July 6, 1999, at 9:19:18

I work when I can, freelance, and it brings in a little money. My mother has been paying my rent, so that I can continue to live alone. The cats are part of my life, and the horse is a long story. First of all, I've worked with horses for years. Training horses and riders was what I did for a living. This horse, the one I own now, I inherited. She's a financial drain, in a big way, but I usually manage to make enough money every month to support her. Not much more, but enough.

Part of the nightmare of this situation for me right now is that it is so hard for anyone to believe that it's as bad as it is. I'm thankful that the therapist got to hear some of it first hand, because at least she believes me when I say that they're stonewalling me at the clinic. After all, they stonewalled her in a big way last Friday.

One of the things that has stopped me so far from killing myself is the thought of how devastating it would be for my mother. Not the going through my things, but just the desolation of not having me to take care of her. What's so frightening now is that that thought means less and less as time goes on. I do want to get better, and sometimes I even know I can, but then I get so exhausted from fighting all the time.

 

Re: I sympathize but..

Posted by TV on July 6, 1999, at 11:54:49

In reply to Re: I sympathize but.., posted by Racer on July 6, 1999, at 11:03:47

> I work when I can, freelance, and it brings in a little money. My mother has been paying my rent, so that I can continue to live alone. The cats are part of my life, and the horse is a long story. First of all, I've worked with horses for years. Training horses and riders was what I did for a living. This horse, the one I own now, I inherited. She's a financial drain, in a big way, but I usually manage to make enough money every month to support her. Not much more, but enough.
>
> Part of the nightmare of this situation for me right now is that it is so hard for anyone to believe that it's as bad as it is. I'm thankful that the therapist got to hear some of it first hand, because at least she believes me when I say that they're stonewalling me at the clinic. After all, they stonewalled her in a big way last Friday.
>
> One of the things that has stopped me so far from killing myself is the thought of how devastating it would be for my mother. Not the going through my things, but just the desolation of not having me to take care of her. What's so frightening now is that that thought means less and less as time goes on. I do want to get better, and sometimes I even know I can, but then I get so exhausted from fighting all the time.

Racer,

I'm sure this is going to create major anger on this page, but, is it possible the meds are making you worse? Are you taking them just for the sake of taking something? I know when I was seriously depressed and on the wrong med, I didn't even contemplate that going off the med might actually relieve the misery. When I went off, it was hell for a little while, but I noticed I wasn't as depressed as I was on the med. I know its possible
that the med might not be doing anything for your depression, but simultaneously creating other problems (anxiety, insomnia, etc.) which can make your situation worse.

Well, anyway, ...every one else seems to have given their two cents worth, here's mine. I would suggest you ween off the med, slowly, perhaps you can somehow get a script for a xanax or something like it to help you with the withdrawl effects. I know your mother cares deeply about you, regardless of how fast she cleans your apartment! I would take some time and move in with her. Just putting your head down on a sofa a couple times a day next to
dear old mom can relieve the worst of the pain. Hopefully you can commute back to your place once a day and feed the cats, take care of your horse, and check in on your apartment. Maybe the time with your mother will give you the companionship you need and give you a break.

Take care

 

Re: I sympathize but..

Posted by JohnL on July 6, 1999, at 19:15:26

In reply to Re: I sympathize but.., posted by TV on July 6, 1999, at 11:54:49


>
> Racer,
>
> I'm sure this is going to create major anger on this page, but, is it possible the meds are making you worse? Are you taking them just for the sake of taking something? I know when I was seriously depressed and on the wrong med, I didn't even contemplate that going off the med might actually relieve the misery. When I went off, it was hell for a little while, but I noticed I wasn't as depressed as I was on the med. I know its possible
> that the med might not be doing anything for your depression, but simultaneously creating other problems (anxiety, insomnia, etc.) which can make your situation worse.
>

My heart goes out to you Racer. The previous post from TV deserves consideration. I say this only because I have expereienced similar despair. When my Serzone wasn't doing much, the doc pushed it higher. I got worse. It was pushed higher. The higher I went the worse I got and I was darn near suicidal. Doc got real mad at me when I decided to ween down on my own, but I instinctively knew the drug was the problem more than the depression. It was so obvious. Too obvious. I was so much better at a lower dose. Anyway, had similar experience with other drugs...Effexor, Vivactil, Moclobemide. More depressed after first dose, worse and worse the higher I went. Now I don't hesitate to drop dosage or stop a new drug at the first sign of worsening depression. Side effects is one thing, but worsening of the depression is quite another. My doc (former) was as bad as yours believe it or not. The moral of the story, at least for some of us, is that more is not always better. In my opinion most doctors are too eager to raise dosage rather than encourage a longer time at a lower dose. Some research studies have actually shown Prozac at 5mg a day is just as good as 20mg a day, only it takes months longer to be as effective. Something else I've noticed from personal experience is that a steady state dosage (same dose every day) is not as effective as a varied dose. For example, 50mg Zoloft one day, 75 the next, then 50, then 75. Not 50, 50, 50, 50. I don't know why that is, only that for me it is for real. My next doc found that interesting and curious, but had nothing negative to say about it. It wouldn't be responsible for us to tell you to drop your dosage or to juggle the daily dosage up and down a small bit. But it is something to think about. One benefit of this site is the chance to learn tips from personal experiences of others which may or may not work for us. Take care. JohnL.


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