Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 8038

Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by Leonora on June 30, 1999, at 10:24:26

I got my copy of Newsweek yesterday, and it touted a supplement called SAMe for depression. Anyone ever heard of it? Right now, after a disappointing trial and error with several SSRI's I seem to be maintaining with HTP5, but I was curious about this stuff.

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by nancy on June 30, 1999, at 13:31:24

In reply to I've never heard of SAMe, posted by Leonora on June 30, 1999, at 10:24:26

> I got my copy of Newsweek yesterday, and it touted a supplement called SAMe for depression. Anyone ever heard of it? Right now, after a disappointing trial and error with several SSRI's I seem to be maintaining with HTP5, but I was curious about this stuff.

s-adenosyl-methionine...an immediate precursor to in the production of seritonin. get out your credit card, however, a single 30 tablet bottle is over 50-bucks. what's really criminal though, is that each tablet is only 200mgs. but, if you wanna try it out for a month it'll only cost a minimum of 200-dollars to achieve the daily recommended dosage, as per www.windsofchange.com/altern2.html, which suggests a dosage of 500-2000mgs daily.

sorry. wish that i had better news.
nancy

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by nancy on June 30, 1999, at 13:50:19

In reply to I've never heard of SAMe, posted by Leonora on June 30, 1999, at 10:24:26

> I got my copy of Newsweek yesterday, and it touted a supplement called SAMe for depression. Anyone ever heard of it? Right now, after a disappointing trial and error with several SSRI's I seem to be maintaining with HTP5, but I was curious about this stuff.


major oops...please, forgive. as soon as i hit the submit button, i knew that i'd made this mistake. sorry, this bipolar episode has made me a little mentally retarded.

the immediate precursor to serotonin is the 5-htp...s-ame is a methyl group donor in the transmethylation reactions necessary for neurotransmitter functioning.

s-adenosyl-methionine can, also, be read about in kay redfield jamison's book called; manic depressive illness.

nancy

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by JohnL on June 30, 1999, at 14:53:07

In reply to I've never heard of SAMe, posted by Leonora on June 30, 1999, at 10:24:26

> I got my copy of Newsweek yesterday, and it touted a supplement called SAMe for depression. Anyone ever heard of it? Right now, after a disappointing trial and error with several SSRI's I seem to be maintaining with HTP5, but I was curious about this stuff.

Leonora (cool name), Nancy's right...SAMe is pricey, more expensive than prescription drugs, not covered by insurance either. Clinical research looks great, but my own trial of it seemed like I was taking nothing. No side effects, no benefits. I did better on 5HTP than anything, but had a bad side effect of burning genitals that was intolerable. If you've found something that works, you might want to ride it for all it's worth and not rock the boat. St. Johnswort goes very well with 5HTP in my experience, though adding it with caution in lower doses at first would be warranted. Both are a whole lot cheaper than SAMe. Best wishes for you. JohnL

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by Leonora on July 1, 1999, at 17:52:15

In reply to Re: I've never heard of SAMe, posted by JohnL on June 30, 1999, at 14:53:07

> > Thanks! I am sticking with the 5HTP and will consider the St. John's Wort add on if it starts to wane. It really seems to be working well for me and I urge others on this board who have been frustrated with side effects from other SSRI's to give it a try.

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by Ruth on July 2, 1999, at 7:25:44

In reply to Re: I've never heard of SAMe, posted by Leonora on July 1, 1999, at 17:52:15

>Leonora,

Can you tell me a little more about 5htp and how
it's worked for your depression compared with other
meds you've taken? How much do you take, and how
long did it take to notice a difference? I wrote
a post not too long ago about experimenting with
different meds in order not to get the sexual
side effects, (prozac, celexa, wellbutrin, serzone,
and st. johns wort),but couldn't really deal with
side effects of any of them, wellbutrin and serzone
didn't help my depression, but made it worse.
So now I'm back to prozac, b/c it has the least
amount of side effects for me. I found St. Johns
Wort to not be strong enough for me, and it sort
of soured me on a more natural approach, but maybe
5htp could work....tell me about your experience
with it...

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by 5htp on July 2, 1999, at 8:53:44

In reply to Re: I've never heard of SAMe, posted by Ruth on July 2, 1999, at 7:25:44

Yes, I would be interested as well. I can not take the ssri's either. However, I did take the SAMe and I got very good results, but it gave me intolerable gas. There are several places on the web to order a 10 day supply for about 18.95(20-200 mg tablets).

> >Leonora,
>
> Can you tell me a little more about 5htp and how
> it's worked for your depression compared with other
> meds you've taken? How much do you take, and how
> long did it take to notice a difference? I wrote
> a post not too long ago about experimenting with
> different meds in order not to get the sexual
> side effects, (prozac, celexa, wellbutrin, serzone,
> and st. johns wort),but couldn't really deal with
> side effects of any of them, wellbutrin and serzone
> didn't help my depression, but made it worse.
> So now I'm back to prozac, b/c it has the least
> amount of side effects for me. I found St. Johns
> Wort to not be strong enough for me, and it sort
> of soured me on a more natural approach, but maybe
> 5htp could work....tell me about your experience
> with it...

 

Re: I've never heard of SAMe

Posted by Leonora on July 2, 1999, at 9:10:28

In reply to Re: I've never heard of SAMe, posted by 5htp on July 2, 1999, at 8:53:44

> Folks interested in 5htp,

I take 1 or 2 60 mg capsules a day. I take one in the am, and if I'm feeling like I need more at noon, I take it, but many days one seems to be enough. The great thing is, this stuff started working within 3 days for me. I know it's really working not only by my improved mood, but by those really vivid, constant dreams that I also had when SSRI's worked for me. Speaking of SSRI's, I turned to 5htp after a return to Prozac failed and Celexa and Zoloft proved problematic due to side effects (including the anorgasmia). I too took St. Johns and it did little or nothing, but 5htp is quite a different story. No side effects so far. I'll keep everyone posted. As you can tell, I'm delighted. If you have a Vitamin World near you, that's where I get mine.

 

Re: 5HTP + StJohns

Posted by JohnL on July 2, 1999, at 15:23:14

In reply to Re: I've never heard of SAMe, posted by Leonora on July 2, 1999, at 9:10:28

> > Folks interested in 5htp,
>
> I take 1 or 2 60 mg capsules a day. I take one in the am, and if I'm feeling like I need more at noon, I take it, but many days one seems to be enough. The great thing is, this stuff started working within 3 days for me. I know it's really working not only by my improved mood, but by those really vivid, constant dreams that I also had when SSRI's worked for me. Speaking of SSRI's, I turned to 5htp after a return to Prozac failed and Celexa and Zoloft proved problematic due to side effects (including the anorgasmia). I too took St. Johns and it did little or nothing, but 5htp is quite a different story. No side effects so far. I'll keep everyone posted. As you can tell, I'm delighted. If you have a Vitamin World near you, that's where I get mine.

In my experience 5HTP + St Johnswort together was a miracle. Either one alone left a lot to be desired, but together there was magic. I had a very bad puzzling side effect of genital/urine burning which caused me to stop 5HTP, which is a heartbreaker, because I had NEVER felt better before or since taking this combination. No 4 to 6 week wait either, just 2. Wishing it to be a miracle for someone else.

 

Re: 5HTP + StJohns

Posted by Leonora on July 3, 1999, at 15:54:42

In reply to Re: 5HTP + StJohns, posted by JohnL on July 2, 1999, at 15:23:14

> > > John,

How many MGs of 5htp and St. John's were you taking?

 

Re: 5HTP + StJohns

Posted by JohnL on July 3, 1999, at 16:52:02

In reply to Re: 5HTP + StJohns, posted by Leonora on July 3, 1999, at 15:54:42

> > > > John,
>
> How many MGs of 5htp and St. John's were you taking?

Leonora, started at 300mg St Johns twice a day for a few days just to feel it out. Then 3 times a day for a few days. All was OK, so went to 4 times a day. Stayed there, though some reseearch trials have gone as high as 9 times day. For 5HTP I started at 50mg for couple days to test it out. Then went to twice a day for couple days. Then 3, then 4, then 5, then back down to 4 times a day. Right in that area I had a short miracle before I was forced to quit. As I remember it was just over two weeks to get there. If it takes longer, hang in there. Give it a fair try if you are going to commit to it. Go slow at first. Wishing you well. JohnL.

 

Too many meds, too little time

Posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 2:11:31

In reply to Re: 5HTP + StJohns, posted by JohnL on July 3, 1999, at 16:52:02

Hi, gang -- I discovered your discussions through
a search engine, and decided to join in. I am
currently on Effexor, my fourth med. I've got
great news and terrible news. The great news is
that I've never been so depression and anxiety
free. I have not had one nightmare or woken up
with anxiety in weeks. I'm assuming that the fact
it's time-released is a big factor. The bad news
is that all of my side effects seem to be even
worse: dryness, foot jerks, sexual disinterest,
etc. I'm not sure it's worth it!

I also saw the Newsweek article, and it boosted my
hopes that maybe something might help. But I was
very disenchanted to see your comments on price.
I had never heard of 5HTP before, and will ask my
doctor about both (she's up on everything). Any
other suggestions? (I've taken Prozac, Wellbutrin,
and Luvox. Effexor works the best so far for my
moods.)

 

Re: More Notes on 5HTP

Posted by JohnL on July 4, 1999, at 6:03:04

In reply to Too many meds, too little time, posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 2:11:31


Just a couple follow-up notes for anyone considering 5HTP + StJohns. First, a doctor is not likely to endorse the approach because that's not what they've been trained. Though some might. My doc said 50mg/day 5HTP would be OK. So it would likely be a personal decision and commitment to try it, with a doctor's involvement to intervene if there are signs of serotonin syndrome or other complications. Definitely make sure the doctor knows what you have decided to do and keep him/her in the loop. This will also help him/her build a documented case of success or failure for possible consideration on future sufferers.

If on an antidepressant and wanting to switch, there are two approaches. First is to ween off the AD slowly, allow a few days to wash-out, and then start the new treatment low and slow. Second, the overlap approach. While weening down from the AD, begin introducing small amounts of the new treatment. This can be done safely, but requires an effort at caution to avoid serotonin syndrome, which can be fatal and a nasty torturous way to go. This approach has the benefit of added protection (though no guarantee) of falling deeper into depression, but the drawbacks involve difficulty in identifying a side effect versus a withdrawal symptom. And again, serotonin syndrome risk is increased during the transition phase. Slow and small dose changes greatly increase safety and comfort.

Back to 5HTP + StJohns. This is potentially a very powerful treatment. Just because these things are natural doesn't mean they are less potent. St Johns is pretty safe, but the 5HTP can cause danger if added too fast or too much. With hindsight I think I went too fast on 5HTP getting to 250mg in 2 weeks and then backing off to 200mg. Half that dose for a week or two longer might have worked just as well or better. Be aware of serotonin syndrome symptoms with any anitdepressant. Build up the doses gradually, and all should be fine.

Sorry to sound overcautious. I know this treatment can work, because I've experienced it. I felt better than any prescription drug ever. But I would hate to see someone get in trouble by approaching it too aggressively. A gradual build-up in dosing stands a good chance of delivering you a miracle with minimal side effects and minimal risk. I heard a saying once, "There are no safe drugs, only safe doses". I am wishing you the same miracle I felt on 5HTP + St Johns. JohnL.

 

Jan--

Posted by Leonora on July 4, 1999, at 14:07:05

In reply to Re: More Notes on 5HTP, posted by JohnL on July 4, 1999, at 6:03:04

>
> Jan,

If you decide you are fed up with side effects of effexor, I'd definitely give the 5htp a shot. I take way less than JohnL. I take 60 mgs. I have not added any St. John's yet but am prepared to do so if my mood wanes. Hope all goes well for you and keep us posted. BTW--I go for the overlap approach in weaning off prescription AD's and on to supplements.

 

Re: Jan--

Posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 15:22:59

In reply to Jan--, posted by Leonora on July 4, 1999, at 14:07:05

> >
> > Jan,
>
> If you decide you are fed up with side effects of effexor, I'd definitely give the 5htp a shot. I take way less than JohnL. I take 60 mgs. I have not added any St. John's yet but am prepared to do so if my mood wanes. Hope all goes well for you and keep us posted. BTW--I go for the overlap approach in weaning off prescription AD's and on to supplements.

Thanks for the comments, John and Leonora. Fortunately, my doctor is traditionally-trained, but well aware of herbs and natural supplements. She should know about both 5HTP and SAMe. She also transitions *very* slowly (taking a full month to do so).

What is serotonin syndrome?

 

5-htp

Posted by Jan ( the other one) on July 5, 1999, at 18:23:19

In reply to Re: Jan--, posted by Jan on July 4, 1999, at 15:22:59

Is 5-htp available in Australia? I can't find it in our health stores. stay safe :)

 

Re: 5-htp

Posted by andrewb on July 6, 1999, at 9:33:45

In reply to 5-htp, posted by Jan ( the other one) on July 5, 1999, at 18:23:19

> Is 5-htp available in Australia? I can't find it in our health stores. stay safe :)

I believe tryptophan is a substitute for 5-htp, is that in your stores. As I recall, people are using 5-htp in the US because tryptophan. Tryptophan was banned after a bad batch from a Japanese manufacturer caused problems. Tryptophan is an amino acid that is used by the body to make seretonin.

 

Re: 5-htp

Posted by jamie on July 6, 1999, at 18:42:55

In reply to Re: 5-htp, posted by andrewb on July 6, 1999, at 9:33:45

> > Is 5-htp available in Australia? I can't find it in our health stores. stay safe :)
>

Tryptophan is the presursor to 5HTP, and 5HTP is the presursor to serotonin. 5HTP is one step closer than tryptophan in the serotonin synthesis process. Only a fraction of tryptophan actually gets converted to 5HTP. A lot of the tryptophan is broken down into other undesired byproducts. 5HTP is a much more efficient choice, though some people actually do better with tryptophan. If 5HTP is not available near you, it can be mailordered from many sources which can be found by doing a web search of 5HTP or checking out an overseas pharmacy found in posts on this page. Let us know how it goes. jamie

 

BEWARE! Re: Jan--

Posted by nancy on July 22, 1999, at 21:23:39

In reply to Jan--, posted by Leonora on July 4, 1999, at 14:07:05

JAN!!! Please carefully consider that many of us, treatment resistive folks, will become resistant to the therapeutic effects of a med after we've stopped taking it, and then, try to restart. IF IT WORKS DON'T FIX IT...just tweek it a little, maybe.

In 6 months, your side-effects MAY disappear. Others have found improvement by adding Wellbutrin into the mix. ASK YOUR DOC...in fact, ASK SEVERAL DOCS. But, PLEASE, don't paint yourself into a corner by giving up the potentially ONLY AD that may keep you alive.

My two cents worth... :)


> >
> > Jan,
>
> If you decide you are fed up with side effects of effexor, I'd definitely give the 5htp a shot. I take way less than JohnL. I take 60 mgs. I have not added any St. John's yet but am prepared to do so if my mood wanes. Hope all goes well for you and keep us posted. BTW--I go for the overlap approach in weaning off prescription AD's and on to supplements.

 

Re: BEWARE! Re: Jan--

Posted by Jan on July 23, 1999, at 17:57:52

In reply to BEWARE! Re: Jan--, posted by nancy on July 22, 1999, at 21:23:39

Many, many thanks, Nancy! I appreciate your input on the matter.

Though I haven't made any changes yet (I'm naturally a *huge* procrastinator), I still bemoan the increased severity of side effects on Effexor. Yes, it's true that the depression and anxiety are at an all-time low! Yay! But the side effects have been increased.

Since I've never returned to a med once leaving it, I was really glad to get your input on what can happen. And it was *very* heartening to learn that side effects can decrease after six months! I've been doing the Effexor thing for about three months now.

I was very intrigued by this site's talk about SamE and 5HTP, but both of them got horrible marks when it came to intestinal gas. That sure scared me off since I've had digestive sensitivities my whole life anyway. So if I can stay on Effexor without much bother, you are absolutely right that I should continue to do so.

But gosh, the dryness (hell for a contact lens wearer), the sleep disturbances (I struggle to get up by 10 or 10:30), and the lack of libido are not fun.......


Thanks for caring, Nancy!
Jan


> JAN!!! Please carefully consider that many of us, treatment resistive folks, will become resistant to the therapeutic effects of a med after we've stopped taking it, and then, try to restart. IF IT WORKS DON'T FIX IT...just tweek it a little, maybe.
>
> In 6 months, your side-effects MAY disappear. Others have found improvement by adding Wellbutrin into the mix. ASK YOUR DOC...in fact, ASK SEVERAL DOCS. But, PLEASE, don't paint yourself into a corner by giving up the potentially ONLY AD that may keep you alive.
>
> My two cents worth... :)

 

One more thing.....

Posted by Jan on July 23, 1999, at 18:00:00

In reply to Re: BEWARE! Re: Jan--, posted by Jan on July 23, 1999, at 17:57:52

Also, Nancy --

What benefit would I get from adding Wellbutrin to the mix?

 

Re: 5HTP + StJohns

Posted by john on January 27, 2000, at 13:08:34

In reply to Re: 5HTP + StJohns, posted by Leonora on July 3, 1999, at 15:54:42

> > > > John,
>
> How many MGs of 5htp and St. John's were you taking?

The 5HTP (2 * 50 mg/day) started working on the first day for me and I was already on St. Johns Wort (300mg *3 times/day).

I get It at Wal-mart in the fitness part of the pharmaceutical goods ( with the health bars and the like). About 8-9 bucks/ 30 pills @ 50mg.

All the touted hype for me so far had been true:
kills hunger,
alleviates depression etc.

With this caveat of knowing that this ultimately could change. But this is what it's all about: finding something that works consistently - if not, move on.

The only possible detraction for this supplementation regimen I see for me is that of tolerance to 5HTP.
Supposedly 500mg of tyrosine is a counteraction to this.

Tyrosine, St. John's wort, and 5HTP are all very resonably priced.

Oh, and do the 5htp on an empty stomach at a low dose for starters.

good luck.


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