![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 18:13:10
I have been diagnosed bipolar and have been taking 600mg of Lithobid a day for over 10 years now. Fortunately, my life is stable and healthy. All the horror stories I have heard about manic-depressives slipping back into either mania or depression involve cessation of or tinkering with their meds. For this reason, I faithfully take my little salmon-colored tablets daily - once in the morning, and once before bedtime. I shudder to think of losing control of my mental processes ever again.
Still, I firmly believe that meds treat not the cause of our distresses, but the symptoms. Don't we want to get to the root of it all, and live our lives happily and productively WITHOUT the aid of external chemicals? Pulling up this forum and seeing post after post about various medications really makes me think - are we looking in the right places? Even as I
continue to take my lithium, I am constantly searching my soul and attempting to come up with answers. I believe more than anything that we are on this planet to confront our fears and our internal enemies - do battle with them and emerge, with any luck, triumphant. There are no external enemies; the key to our happiness lies within our SELVES. If only we can clear a pathway to that place and keep it accessible! Tell me your thoughts...
Posted by Judy on June 9, 1999, at 19:48:52
In reply to So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 18:13:10
Trey,
I firmly believe that I have an organ in my body that is PHYSICALLY impaired - my brain. Without medication, I cannot confront anything because the screwed up chemicals in my brain will not allow it - those chemicals are the *cause* of my distress.
Why, because it's your brain, do you feel you should be able to mentally triumph over it? If your pancrease were impaired, wouldn't you willingly take insulin? If your heart were beating erratically, wouldn't you consider a pacemaker if it were recommended? Your brain is another malfunctioning organ, just like the pancrease and the heart.
A long, long time ago I stopped searching my soul and accepted my condition as physical - not mental.
I hope you don't think I'm being wise - this is what I truly believe.
Judy
Posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 23:40:20
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Judy on June 9, 1999, at 19:48:52
No, I don't think you're being wise, Judy, and I appreciate your comments. That's why I posted here - to start a little forum on this page that is a bit of a departure from the other posts.
Your response allows me to clarify my thoughts a bit. I do believe that I should continue on my meds while they are necessary. But they are not a "cure" for my condition. Rather, the meds make my condition manageable. I believe that the REAL cure is the holy grail of my soul's searching. Whether that grail can be uncovered within a lifetime is more the point of my ruminations.
You mention that our conditions are physical. Indeed, that is true and I do accept that. The chemical makeup in my brain is such that I am bipolar. There is no disputing that lithium restores the chemical balance in my brain. I don't feel like there is a defect in my character nor do I feel a victim of my condition. On the contrary, I feel my condition is a blessing. I have a capacity to feel and intuit much more deeply than most "normal" people. Yet, when left untreated, this condition can become a nightmare. That's one nightmare I don't ever want to experience again. To answer your question: Yes, if I were diabetic I would take insulin and if I had heart problems I would most likely consider a pacemaker. That's why I continue with my meds. However, these are just physical conditions, quite likely manifestations of other weaknesses.
That's also why I continue searching for deeper answers. Saying my condition is a physical one is ignoring our other aspects - mind and soul. The three are completely intertwined and inseparable. Working to positively change any one aspect will most certainly affect the other two. There's so much more to life than our physical existence. My thoughts are really starting to meander, so I am going to wrap this up.
It just seems that all the research being done in psychiatrics is to come up with a pill for this and a pill for that. Here, take a pill, everything will be just fine. Every other day it seems, I read a magazine ad or see a commercial on TV for some new pill promising health and happiness. That's exactly what the pharmaceutical companies want you to believe, and most people buy right in. Everyone wants the quick fix so that's what researchers try to come up with. But again, they treat the symptoms. They don't treat the cause. I'm not interested in taking another pill; I would much rather see research aim to nail the causes down. Bring the mind and more importantly, the soul, back in line with the body and look at the bigger picture. Peace.
> Trey,
>
> I firmly believe that I have an organ in my body that is PHYSICALLY impaired - my brain. Without medication, I cannot confront anything because the screwed up chemicals in my brain will not allow it - those chemicals are the *cause* of my distress.
>
> Why, because it's your brain, do you feel you should be able to mentally triumph over it? If your pancrease were impaired, wouldn't you willingly take insulin? If your heart were beating erratically, wouldn't you consider a pacemaker if it were recommended? Your brain is another malfunctioning organ, just like the pancrease and the heart.
>
> A long, long time ago I stopped searching my soul and accepted my condition as physical - not mental.
>
> I hope you don't think I'm being wise - this is what I truly believe.
>
> Judy
Posted by JohnL on June 10, 1999, at 3:35:55
In reply to So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 18:13:10
> I have been diagnosed bipolar and have been taking 600mg of Lithobid a day for over 10 years now. Fortunately, my life is stable and healthy. All the horror stories I have heard about manic-depressives slipping back into either mania or depression involve cessation of or tinkering with their meds. For this reason, I faithfully take my little salmon-colored tablets daily - once in the morning, and once before bedtime. I shudder to think of losing control of my mental processes ever again.
> Still, I firmly believe that meds treat not the cause of our distresses, but the symptoms. Don't we want to get to the root of it all, and live our lives happily and productively WITHOUT the aid of external chemicals? Pulling up this forum and seeing post after post about various medications really makes me think - are we looking in the right places? Even as I
> continue to take my lithium, I am constantly searching my soul and attempting to come up with answers. I believe more than anything that we are on this planet to confront our fears and our internal enemies - do battle with them and emerge, with any luck, triumphant. There are no external enemies; the key to our happiness lies within our SELVES. If only we can clear a pathway to that place and keep it accessible! Tell me your thoughts...Trey, my family doc says when he started practice there were no medicines for mental illness. Sufferers were shunned, locked up, discarded by society, and lived miserable lives without hope. His face lights up with pure joy as he speaks of hundreds of patients who have had their lives totally transformed with medicines of the last few decades. Sure it would be nice to find the root cause, rather than treating symptoms, but that goes for countless other ills as well, not just mental illness. Don't you think diabetics feel the same way? Anyway, you're right, meds offer only relief. Deeper answers come from an unwavering faith in God, Who for some unknown uncomprehendable reason to us will make goodness out of our condition. If you are stable on your medicine, sample a few Churches in your area, just for grins if nothing else. You might be surprised. Nothing to lose. Also, most localities have depression groups to join where you can gain immense healing and wisdom by just talking with others just like you. I believe we who suffer are stronger than the "normal", and we have been blessed with a gift of greater insight and wisdom than the "normal". Ironically, there are plenty of good things that come from our suffering, just as fragrant roses grow out of ugly thorny branches. My counselor told me of a research study done, where everyone in a room wrote their problems down, put them in a hat. Each person reached in the hat to pull out a piece of paper, to see if they would trade their problems for the random one pulled out of the hat. You know what, EVERYBODY decided they were better off just as they were. If nothing else, you should feel VERY fortunate that you are somewhat stable. Most of us at this site are clearly unstable and in the midst of struggling to find relief for our suffering, and thus the many posts discussing meds. You at least seem to have already found some stability, and are miles ahead of a lot of us. Thank God, thank your doctor, and thank the pharmaceutical companies for that. JohnL.
Posted by Trey on June 10, 1999, at 11:55:21
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by JohnL on June 10, 1999, at 3:35:55
John, and all others who post replies:
Please, no defenses of meds! I thought I made it clear that I am not attacking meds and that I am very grateful for the balance that they restore to my life. That aside, what I am looking for is discussion on what the real causes of our ailments might be - perhaps a failure to confront certain aspects of ourselves, or maybe a flaw in our own personal belief systems.
John, I appreciate all of your heartfelt advice. I can sense that, although you don't know me, you really care about me; enough so that you took the time to post a reply. You are a really good soul and this world needs more people like you. However, I really wasn't asking for support. I am content with my diagnosis and did mention that I feel it is a real blessing in disguise. To be certain, as you mention, I wouldn't trade my problem for anyone else's. It's MY problem, to tinker with and praise and to poke fun at and to laugh with and to curse and to despise when I feel like it. It is, at this point in my life, what makes me ME. I've made my peace with my condition, and for that I feel fortunate. I really believe that is the first part of the healing process and for those who haven't yet made it to that point, my heart goes out to them. The point of my posts is not to reach out for support, it is to do dig deeper to see if we may be able to come up with a different approach to our conditions. There is a bigger picture, and focusing on any one detail for too long will cause us to lose sight of it.
A good amount of your advice spoke of churches and support groups and the like. I can certainly appreciate the value of these institutions to help people to heal. But these are both, in essence, external. They are outside of ourselves, just like meds are. I was born and raised Catholic. I discarded most of those beliefs when I was in college because I was TOLD to believe them all my life. I wanted to find out what *I* really believed. I read lots of books on different religious traditions and really dug deep into my soul. At about which time, my mania manifested itself. Coincidence? hmmmm...I really don't know. At any rate, what I have come to believe as I search for truth is that God does not exist outside of ourselves as Catholics are taught. Rather, there is a higher part of Ourselves that is directly connected to God and is One with God. This whole idea of a God that exists outside of us, I wonder, is what may be causing so many of our ills. I had my first inkling of this when I was hospitalized for my mania. I did an informal survey of all my fellow patients who were suffering from a range of psychiatric ailments. I simply asked them what religious tradition they had been raised in as a child. NINETY NINE percent said they were Catholic. Of course, I am no scientist and my sample size was very small - 30 people or so. But this seemed to tell me something, and kept me on this path I walk today.
Could it be our flawed belief systems that contribute to our psychiatric conditions? Fears left unidentified and unconfronted? Let's just stop talking about meds, if only for a while, and see what we can come up with. Any ideas?
Posted by Annie on June 10, 1999, at 21:16:30
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 10, 1999, at 11:55:21
Trey,
You might be interested in the book "The Zen Path Through Depression" by Philip Martin. The author(who had depression) calls depression "an illness not just of the body and mind, but also of the heart." The book is a totally different approach to healing depression: the spirit is where the key to healing lies.
Annie
P.S. I was also raised Catholic. UH OH!
> John, and all others who post replies:
>
> Please, no defenses of meds! I thought I made it clear that I am not attacking meds and that I am very grateful for the balance that they restore to my life. That aside, what I am looking for is discussion on what the real causes of our ailments might be - perhaps a failure to confront certain aspects of ourselves, or maybe a flaw in our own personal belief systems.
>
> John, I appreciate all of your heartfelt advice. I can sense that, although you don't know me, you really care about me; enough so that you took the time to post a reply. You are a really good soul and this world needs more people like you. However, I really wasn't asking for support. I am content with my diagnosis and did mention that I feel it is a real blessing in disguise. To be certain, as you mention, I wouldn't trade my problem for anyone else's. It's MY problem, to tinker with and praise and to poke fun at and to laugh with and to curse and to despise when I feel like it. It is, at this point in my life, what makes me ME. I've made my peace with my condition, and for that I feel fortunate. I really believe that is the first part of the healing process and for those who haven't yet made it to that point, my heart goes out to them. The point of my posts is not to reach out for support, it is to do dig deeper to see if we may be able to come up with a different approach to our conditions. There is a bigger picture, and focusing on any one detail for too long will cause us to lose sight of it.
>
> A good amount of your advice spoke of churches and support groups and the like. I can certainly appreciate the value of these institutions to help people to heal. But these are both, in essence, external. They are outside of ourselves, just like meds are. I was born and raised Catholic. I discarded most of those beliefs when I was in college because I was TOLD to believe them all my life. I wanted to find out what *I* really believed. I read lots of books on different religious traditions and really dug deep into my soul. At about which time, my mania manifested itself. Coincidence? hmmmm...I really don't know. At any rate, what I have come to believe as I search for truth is that God does not exist outside of ourselves as Catholics are taught. Rather, there is a higher part of Ourselves that is directly connected to God and is One with God. This whole idea of a God that exists outside of us, I wonder, is what may be causing so many of our ills. I had my first inkling of this when I was hospitalized for my mania. I did an informal survey of all my fellow patients who were suffering from a range of psychiatric ailments. I simply asked them what religious tradition they had been raised in as a child. NINETY NINE percent said they were Catholic. Of course, I am no scientist and my sample size was very small - 30 people or so. But this seemed to tell me something, and kept me on this path I walk today.
>
> Could it be our flawed belief systems that contribute to our psychiatric conditions? Fears left unidentified and unconfronted? Let's just stop talking about meds, if only for a while, and see what we can come up with. Any ideas?
>
Posted by Judy on June 10, 1999, at 22:17:53
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Annie on June 10, 1999, at 21:16:30
Another brought - up Catholic here! Maybe we should take a poll here?
Posted by Cindy on June 11, 1999, at 7:21:23
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Judy on June 10, 1999, at 22:17:53
In Scott Peck's book, The Road Less Traveled, he said he owed the success of his practice to the Cathoic religion. :) I understand what you are trying to get going here Trey...I constanty waver between accepting my "illness" as a biochemical imbalance of the brain" and wondering if the answer lies within my wounded soul. The answer to both is yes, no doubt.> Another brought - up Catholic here! Maybe we should take a poll here?
Posted by Racer on June 11, 1999, at 17:03:50
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 23:40:20
If you are diabetic, you take insulin. That part is true, but it's not the whole story. If you are diabetic, and you take insulin, you still have to adjust your lifestyle. It's a systemic process, in that you have to change eating habits, exercise habits, learn a lot about your body chemistry, and how to prevent and control blood sugar crises.
The same can be said for mental illness. Personally, I do not accept that depression is a primary element of my identity. The primary elements of my identity are bound up in what I do, what I know, what I have gained in my life. I am a woman, I am smart, I am a horse trainer and computer professional, I am well read, I am kind to others, I am a redhead, I am all sorts of things before we get down to things like I'm diabetic, I'm depressive, I wear a size six shoe. Does that make sense so far?
Still, just as the blood sugar impairment means that I have to adjust my lifestyle, so does the depression. Just as I needed to learn to assess my food needs, and to control my sugar by balancing food intake and exercise, etc, so too do I have to adjust my lifestyle around my depression.
Years ago, after a riding accident, I was told that I'd never be able to ride again. I didn't accept that, but I did change the way I rode. I stopped riding the big fences, I haven't jumped more than 3 feet since then. I stopped riding the really rank and the really psycho horses who had been my bread and butter before. Now I only take on the sorts of horses that I can get somewhere with. I have adjusted my lifestyle to accommodate my condition.
Now I have to learn to adjust my lifestyle to accommodate another kind of condition: depression. I'll learn about other ways to channel my fear and frustration. I'll learn to express my emotions appropriately, rather than letting them eat me up. All those things can be done. At the end of it, I may still need to be on medication, sometimes if not all the time. I imagine that I'll have to take anti-depressants most of the rest of my life. Still, they are an adjunct, in the best of all possible worlds.
That's long enough that my ISP disconnected me. It's probably confused enough to make the rest of you think I'm really nuts. What can I say... If anyone understood it and thought it thought provoking or educational or helpful, I'm glad.
Posted by Trey on June 11, 1999, at 19:33:58
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Cindy on June 11, 1999, at 7:21:23
> This is precisely the type of thing I am getting at here. The Road Less Traveled quite literally changed my life. M. Scott Peck is a wonderfully gifted soul, his words spoke so many of the vague and undefined thoughts and beliefs I had been trying to define all my life. Interesting quote, though. I don't remember that one from the book, and I am not sure of the context of that quote. As I read the book, I understood Peck's religious leanings as being very non-traditional and very non-Catholic. Or maybe I should say his views are way beyond Catholicism. What born-and-bred practicing Catholic could ever come to terms with the idea that we are all "gods in training?" I saw in his words a definite expansion from traditional Christianity into the realms of the metaphysical, which is the same spiritual path my soul has been taking.
> In Scott Peck's book, The Road Less Traveled, he said he owed the success of his practice to the Cathoic religion. :) I understand what you are trying to get going here Trey...I constanty waver between accepting my "illness" as a biochemical imbalance of the brain" and wondering if the answer lies within my wounded soul. The answer to both is yes, no doubt.
>
> > Another brought - up Catholic here! Maybe we should take a poll here?
Posted by Gringo on June 12, 1999, at 7:29:20
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 10, 1999, at 11:55:21
Hey there!
I warmly welcomed your posting here, dear Trey. It's been a long time since I've checked new threads on psycho-babble and now it was worth it. I just wanted to say thanks for starting this discussion and for the patience and calmness which somehow I can feel in your replies. So far, lucky (you/we?) it didn't turn to an ego-war-type discussion 'my truth against your truth'. As I am not native english-speaking person I cannot add too much in a way I could. Well, at least something.
As mentioned, there is possibly other kind of 'person' 'inside' every one of us. It's relatively easy to get in touch with that part of personality, though it still seems impossible to find it for most of the people. Material reality is real but it seems that people remain stuck in it somehow. This is not about typicall eastern-wisdom teaching (to liberate oneself is to give up material world). It's ok to make use of it, to live in it, to enjoy its pleasures etc. But it's necessary to realize it's not the only place to do that and it's also necessary to try to find these alternative realms and to benefit from them. Also as was said, these 'realms' doesn't lie somewhere 'in the skies' but within. This might sound strange or for someone familiar but still distant. Or it may sound familiar but in a way 'yeah, we heard it but these are just nice talks and I don't know of anyone who would get there...' Never mind. To finish that idea, most of us have found a sense of a life in material world without searching for more. This world should serve as a base for that searching and should not drag us down. I guess there is no discussion needed that it does drag people down, but discussing about that would lead me somewhere else. Seems like people became slaves of their own devices, their own system. I've heard hundreds of times sayings like 'yeah, how easy to say...try paying all my debts...try to give up those possessions in favor of your spouse...try to lose your children in a divorce...etc.' But that's only what we've created. Saying that 'this is natural for a human being' is wrong, though it's strong to say it like this and I expect someone arguing about it. Belief in this system leads to thinking that brain is a mechanical tool and mental disorders come from some kind of chemical unbalance. Comparing brain to pancreas or heart is very very simplified, I think. I think it's difficult to explain but somehow there is dual characteristic even to brain or to its functions. There is some kind of corelation between energy and matter (well, just remember that famous e=mc2) and maybe brain is that 'tool' that combines them. Just to mention, early childhood and birth traumas are stored in a body in a form of 'blocks' or 'blockages' which manifest themselves in *physical* pain when it comes to releasing them. ('Behind' (which isn't the right word to describe), somehow dualistic, behind these pains there is mental content of such traumas) Mental memories are manifested through physical pain and probably brain is that central computer which transforms and directs them. Bio-feedback therapeutists would give a similar example: they ask a question while holding patient's hands or other part of a body. Depending on a reaction of a *muscle*, therapeutist knows which way to go and what questions to ask to reveal the roots of traumas etc. Well, this is very simplified description of whole therapy but this was only to say that it's maybe not quite right to understand brain in such a simple way that it's a mechanical tool or body organ and that we can easily describe its functions and thus we certainly know where roots of the disorders are.
Someone before said that 'we are stronger than "normal" people because...'. Grof in one of his books wrote that most of the disorders are just the starting points of a journey that can have a very positive ending. And that most of the people with depressions are much closer to final solution than most of "normal" people. But the 'final solution' isn't getting back mentally to the state in which "normal" people(are there any?) are. Understanding the disorder as a challenge and the journey to a 'higher level of existence' is a primary condition to 'healing oneself'. Some people after going on meds will find some sort of balance, some people will not. Even finding that balance is a temporary root-reasons supressing. I know this may upset some people but this is partly my own experience. It's also necessary to say that start of a 'journey' is always spontaneous and cannot be forced to begin, i.e this is some kind of coincidence 'driven from above' which I cannot explain. Mostly such a 'journey' is individualistic, thus relying on a therapeut, meds or any other external means won't work too much. Simply, a road to heaven through hell. Final state of being is a positive person with somehow different attitude (cooperative and collective) towards life, nature, Earth and all the Universe. What is natural for human being is that he/she is open, loving, cooperating with others, able to switch from individual to collective consciousness and spontaneous, loving him/herself with much improved contact with his/her inner world as well as directing these feelings to external world. Such a person may become interested in spiritual paths (which in no way means he/she will convert to catholic or islamic or any other church). This description is certainly not complete, it's just one of the possible ones. Such is a potential of a human being, if some of you like it or not. It's just it's deep within and we're too 'blocked' to see or even to agree with it. There's sometimes a lot of 'muddy dirt' on us which prevents us from seeing our true nature. This 'mud' (sorry I haven't other words to describe) are traumas, early memories, bad life experiences (stored in a perfect human computer - body), chemical unbalances, whatever you like and sometimes people waste too much time(whole biological life) on supressing them and trying to become "normal" again(which is a reverse direction life strategy). It's better to work through them, release them and scrape all that 'mud' down.(these actions and experiences are not always pleasant and may be called 'hell' in that sentence above). Whatever comes out, cannot be bad. Such a state of existence is relatively easy to achieve, it's only that the efforts of today's science and *possible* misunderstanding of depressions made it more complicated because sometimes the most difficult step to make is to get rid of something in which I believed for thirty years. It's quite possible that people laugh at such ideas, doesn't matter.
All the best.
Posted by Elizabeth on June 12, 1999, at 22:53:19
In reply to So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 18:13:10
It would be nice if there were, and it's tempting to believe that there must be a "cure," but the cold hard reality is that in the case of manic-depression and recurring unipolar depression, it's not bloody likely - not in my lifetime, anyway.
I think that talk of "treating the symptoms not the cause" or "getting to the root of the problem" is a bit silly. We don't know all the cause(s) of this stuff yet, though genetics and, for some people, early or recent experiences seem to play some role.
Posted by Mare -- a fellow rider on June 14, 1999, at 7:55:27
In reply to How about it's both?, posted by Racer on June 11, 1999, at 17:03:50
Read your post -- so you're a horse trainer! I started riding as an adult about 3 years ago, had a bad riding accident last year, in a back brace for 3 months, but I'm back at it now. Just wanted to say that finding horses (and the icing on the cake -- riding) has done an incredible amount to relieve my depression -- it is a challenge and a joy, keeps my mind busy. I love the smell of the barn. But I also take Celexa and have weekly therapy. Horses are an adjunct to my therapy. Just wanted to say hi!
Posted by nancy on June 15, 1999, at 14:03:42
In reply to So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 18:13:10
manic depression is not all in your head. it's not psychological.
a better way may be neural stem cell transplantaion, but it's not available to us, yet. also, electro-convulsive therapy as a maintenance treatment is an option.
however, if anyone comes across some magic chant or wellness dance, i'll join in the chorus line.
> I have been diagnosed bipolar and have been taking 600mg of Lithobid a day for over 10 years now. Fortunately, my life is stable and healthy. All the horror stories I have heard about manic-depressives slipping back into either mania or depression involve cessation of or tinkering with their meds. For this reason, I faithfully take my little salmon-colored tablets daily - once in the morning, and once before bedtime. I shudder to think of losing control of my mental processes ever again.
> Still, I firmly believe that meds treat not the cause of our distresses, but the symptoms. Don't we want to get to the root of it all, and live our lives happily and productively WITHOUT the aid of external chemicals? Pulling up this forum and seeing post after post about various medications really makes me think - are we looking in the right places? Even as I
> continue to take my lithium, I am constantly searching my soul and attempting to come up with answers. I believe more than anything that we are on this planet to confront our fears and our internal enemies - do battle with them and emerge, with any luck, triumphant. There are no external enemies; the key to our happiness lies within our SELVES. If only we can clear a pathway to that place and keep it accessible! Tell me your thoughts...
Posted by nancy on June 15, 1999, at 14:12:04
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 10, 1999, at 11:55:21
it's called DNA (Deoxyribo-Nucleic Acid)
you can't get any more personal than that
> John, and all others who post replies:
>
> Please, no defenses of meds! I thought I made it clear that I am not attacking meds and that I am very grateful for the balance that they restore to my life. That aside, what I am looking for is discussion on what the real causes of our ailments might be - perhaps a failure to confront certain aspects of ourselves, or maybe a flaw in our own personal belief systems.
>
> John, I appreciate all of your heartfelt advice. I can sense that, although you don't know me, you really care about me; enough so that you took the time to post a reply. You are a really good soul and this world needs more people like you. However, I really wasn't asking for support. I am content with my diagnosis and did mention that I feel it is a real blessing in disguise. To be certain, as you mention, I wouldn't trade my problem for anyone else's. It's MY problem, to tinker with and praise and to poke fun at and to laugh with and to curse and to despise when I feel like it. It is, at this point in my life, what makes me ME. I've made my peace with my condition, and for that I feel fortunate. I really believe that is the first part of the healing process and for those who haven't yet made it to that point, my heart goes out to them. The point of my posts is not to reach out for support, it is to do dig deeper to see if we may be able to come up with a different approach to our conditions. There is a bigger picture, and focusing on any one detail for too long will cause us to lose sight of it.
>
> A good amount of your advice spoke of churches and support groups and the like. I can certainly appreciate the value of these institutions to help people to heal. But these are both, in essence, external. They are outside of ourselves, just like meds are. I was born and raised Catholic. I discarded most of those beliefs when I was in college because I was TOLD to believe them all my life. I wanted to find out what *I* really believed. I read lots of books on different religious traditions and really dug deep into my soul. At about which time, my mania manifested itself. Coincidence? hmmmm...I really don't know. At any rate, what I have come to believe as I search for truth is that God does not exist outside of ourselves as Catholics are taught. Rather, there is a higher part of Ourselves that is directly connected to God and is One with God. This whole idea of a God that exists outside of us, I wonder, is what may be causing so many of our ills. I had my first inkling of this when I was hospitalized for my mania. I did an informal survey of all my fellow patients who were suffering from a range of psychiatric ailments. I simply asked them what religious tradition they had been raised in as a child. NINETY NINE percent said they were Catholic. Of course, I am no scientist and my sample size was very small - 30 people or so. But this seemed to tell me something, and kept me on this path I walk today.
>
> Could it be our flawed belief systems that contribute to our psychiatric conditions? Fears left unidentified and unconfronted? Let's just stop talking about meds, if only for a while, and see what we can come up with. Any ideas?
>
Posted by nancy on June 15, 1999, at 14:33:48
In reply to Re: So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Elizabeth on June 12, 1999, at 22:53:19
> It would be nice if there were, and it's tempting to believe that there must be a "cure,"
how about the cure being available within the next five years...as a result of hard science...not simply a wishyou are knowledgeable and very well-read. i enjoy seeing your posts. you will be able to appreciate some of the more recent work in neurobiology.
check out the latest research by; Dr. Evan Snyder of Children's Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, Mass...Dr. Gerald D. Fischbach, director of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
but the cold hard reality is that in the case of manic-depression and recurring unipolar depression, it's not bloody likely - not in my lifetime, anyway.
>
> I think that talk of "treating the symptoms not the cause" or "getting to the root of the problem" is a bit silly. We don't know all the cause(s) of this stuff yet, though genetics and, for some people, early or recent experiences seem to play some role.
Posted by Gringo on June 21, 1999, at 2:07:41
In reply to Re: a better way?...if so, i'd have done it, posted by nancy on June 15, 1999, at 14:03:42
> manic depression is not all in your head. it's not psychological.
>
> a better way may be neural stem cell transplantaion, but it's not available to us, yet. also, electro-convulsive therapy as a maintenance treatment is an option.
>
> however, if anyone comes across some magic chant or wellness dance, i'll join in the chorus line.
>
how exactly you named it! in fact, there are chants and dances with nice potential, they've been there for you for so long...you've probably missed them when reading so much of neurobiology and neural stem cell transplantaion, though still might be a way to try for those who wish so.Lots of luck and an early end to your suffering. :-)
Posted by Elizabeth on June 22, 1999, at 20:16:17
In reply to Re: a better way...(elizabeth), posted by nancy on June 15, 1999, at 14:33:48
Nancy,
I don't have time to go over to Countway now, but when I do I will see if I can grok some of this research. By your reference to Dr. Snyder I'm assuming you refer to gene therapy?
Posted by Jeff on June 24, 1999, at 0:53:55
In reply to So much talk of meds...Isn't there a better way?, posted by Trey on June 9, 1999, at 18:13:10
> I have been diagnosed bipolar and have been taking 600mg of Lithobid a day for over 10 years now. Fortunately, my life is stable and healthy. All the horror stories I have heard about manic-depressives slipping back into either mania or depression involve cessation of or tinkering with their meds. For this reason, I faithfully take my little salmon-colored tablets daily - once in the morning, and once before bedtime. I shudder to think of losing control of my mental processes ever again.
> Still, I firmly believe that meds treat not the cause of our distresses, but the symptoms. Don't we want to get to the root of it all, and live our lives happily and productively WITHOUT the aid of external chemicals? Pulling up this forum and seeing post after post about various medications really makes me think - are we looking in the right places? Even as I
> continue to take my lithium, I am constantly searching my soul and attempting to come up with answers. I believe more than anything that we are on this planet to confront our fears and our internal enemies - do battle with them and emerge, with any luck, triumphant. There are no external enemies; the key to our happiness lies within our SELVES. If only we can clear a pathway to that place and keep it accessible! Tell me your thoughts...I also notice the excessive emphasis that is put on meds in these forums, and wish there were more discussions about other ways.
I wouldn't give up my medication for many reasons, not the least of which is that it is allowing me to seek out every dark corner in which a helpful hint or even the ultimate solution exists. I have wrung my soul inside out since starting to take meds, and the progress I have made is astonishing. Without meds I would not have the capability to even want to do these things. But I do not believe that my depression is specifically biologically disposed, as I am able to feel a bit better when positive things happen and worse when negative things happen. This gives me hope that someday I may conquer it.
When things go very poorly in my life and depression consumes me, I know that many people exist like that no matter what happens to them, and for them medication is their only salvation. The belief that they will take medication for the rest of their lives is only restrictive if they also give up all hope of finding other methods to improve their lives as much as they can.
Whether you are a reactionary depressive like me or biologically depressed like so many others, there are things that can soothe the pain like exercise, beautiful weather, children, animals, meditation, companionship, and love. The problem is that these things cannot be properly experienced for most without the meds.
By far, exercise and meditation have been the two most effective non-pill therapies I have found for myself (aside from psychotherapy of course), and I make time for each every day. But I know that I probably wouldn't be capable of even doing these things without meds, let alone benefiting from them. At least I am creating the habits now so that if I ever succeed in getting off meds they will be part of my life.
To everyone who has resigned to take meds the rest of his/her life: do so, but with an open heart, and please never stop searching your soul. It is my honest belief that a sick brain creates a sick mind, but a sick mind can create a healed soul.
Jeff
Posted by nancy on June 27, 1999, at 21:40:39
In reply to Re: a better way?...if so, i'd have done it, posted by Gringo on June 21, 1999, at 2:07:41
> > manic depression is not all in your head. it's not psychological.
> >
> > a better way may be neural stem cell transplantaion, but it's not available to us, yet. also, electro-convulsive therapy as a maintenance treatment is an option.
> >
> > however, if anyone comes across some magic chant or wellness dance, i'll join in the chorus line.
> >
> how exactly you named it! in fact, there are chants and dances with nice potential, they've been there for you for so long...you've probably missed them when reading so much of neurobiology and neural stem cell transplantaion, though still might be a way to try for those who wish so.
>
> Lots of luck and an early end to your suffering. :-)
LOL :) nancy
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