Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 4833

Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

EMDR--therapy--for TOBY

Posted by DL on April 13, 1999, at 21:42:02

I wrote to you in the long strand above a few days ago --in case you did not see it. however someone has asked that we start new strands so here goes.

Liked the therapist. She agreed that EMDR would be good next step for me. Session planned for 4-22 at 3PM-----a little nervous!

Below is e-mail message from her (she teaches at local University and has e-mail there) in response to my message after visit--asking how the me she read about in all the forwared records matched the me she met and how I should prepare for EMDR---

"I was impressed with our first meeting in that you appeared to be so open
and ready to move ahead with fighting "the demons". You also struck me as
a person who has been through a lot, learned a lot, and has hope for her
future. All of these things bode well, I think, for your own work and
desires to feel better and more whole.

AS for the EMDR exercise itself, you may want to be thinking about a
specific memory that you feel best explains to you the way that you are
presently relating to your world. As in something that made a statement
that you find continuing to define you or your behavior.

We'll start with that when you come in and see how we progress. It is not
unusual to be anxious. We will also see how that feels as we decide how
to progress."

She also said that sometimes the brain keeps on processing after the session and I may have increased dreams etc. Is this something you have noticed?

Thank you again for supporting me. I hope this new adventure will open up life a little for me. If you are still interested and have time, post after my EMDR session and I will respond. Dotty

 

Re: EMDR--therapy

Posted by Toby on April 14, 1999, at 12:50:59

In reply to EMDR--therapy--for TOBY, posted by DL on April 13, 1999, at 21:42:02

Your new therapist wrote:
> AS for the EMDR exercise itself, you may want to be thinking about a specific memory that you feel best explains to you the way that you are presently relating to your world. As in something that made a statement that you find continuing to define you or your behavior. We'll start with that when you come in and see how we progress. It is not unusual to be anxious. We will also see how that feels as we decide how to progress."

You had talked previously of your father's obsessive, irrational behavior toward you and your brother, your father coming into your room at night watching you. If these are some of the worst memories you have, and since they are from childhood (EMDR therapists like to go as far back as possible because we want to get at the initial knot in the thread) these may be good ones to start with. But if there are others that you feel defined who you are and how you respond to the world, use those. (I just wanted you to have some idea of the kinds of memories she's talking about; although she probably went over that already.)

> She also said that sometimes the brain keeps on processing after the session and I may have increased dreams etc. Is this something you have noticed?

Yes. You know how if you have something specific that is worrying you (like an upcoming speech or job interview or something), you will dream about it and your mind will dwell on it on and off for several days, even after the event is over? That's the same kind of processing the brain does in EMDR. It's just that now the real processing has been turned on and speeded up, so that you don't just dwell on it without ever reaching a conclusion; with EMDR you finally do get to the end and can move on to other things that matter to your life in the here and now.

I'm excited for you. I think you will like the feelings you get after the session. You can let us know how it went that same day, but you won't "believe" it's really done until probably Monday or so. Never mind, you will see what I mean. Take care.

 

Re: EMDR-Dreams

Posted by Susie on April 14, 1999, at 14:07:44

In reply to Re: EMDR--therapy, posted by Toby on April 14, 1999, at 12:50:59

Toby, are nightmares surrounding EMDR sessions common?

A Dr. told me that nightmares during intensive therapy were normal and a part of the healing process and not to worry about them. However, I would not want to have been alone during those awful nightmares because I was screaming out loud in my sleep and having someone there to wake me up and comfort me helped a lot. It was scarey! It was a grieving process and the Dr. said that my screaming out loud was healing in itself. I actually cried and knew what I was crying about. I don't know how many times in the last three years I had no idea what I was crying about. I had always stuffed things without knowing it.

DL: Do you have someone who can stay with you for a while? If not, be assured that dreams helped me understand what may have been the root cause of the depression. That understanding was worth the nightmares!

I will say that since that intensive therapy time I have felt sooooo much better and I trust that your EMDR session(s) will be a step in your healing process.

 

RE: EMDR--therapy--for TOBY

Posted by DL on April 14, 1999, at 18:21:56

In reply to Re: EMDR--therapy, posted by Toby on April 14, 1999, at 12:50:59

>> If these are some of the worst memories you have, and since they are from childhood (EMDR therapists like to go as far back as possible because we want to get at the initial knot in the thread) these may be good ones to start with.

There is one memory that is always close at hand. I think the scene happened a number of times but I'm not sure how many. I have a still photo in my mind and thinking of it brings tears to my mind. ANd I think it is one of those knots you speak of.

When I was young--probably around kindergarten age--my father would threaten me with sending me to the "bad girls home". Indeed I knew there was one because when we were out in the car and drove past it he would always point it out. This usually happened after one of those sessions when I did not finish everything on my plate at dinner. He would get so angry that he would come stand over me and force food into my mouth and sometimes push it down my throat. I can't connect with those feelings for some reason. But I vividly connect with the above threat. I remember standing in front of the dining room window with my head hung down and he was calmly telling me to go upstairs and pick only one of my 2 dolls, because I could only take one to the bad girls home. He left me up there and the hours were indeterminable. I believed him totally. I think part of me inside died then. For some reason this was so much worse than the spankings or yelling. I knew I would just never be a "good girl" like the one he wanted because I had tried for so long already and I just wasn't good enough to keep. He never did actually leave me there, but I lived in fear of this. All of my life it seems I was terrified of him and could never let him see beneath the surface. I acted the part of the perfect child as best I could.

How's that for a place to start?

That should kick up some interesting dreams! I have a conference tomorrow and Fri in MA. That's why she scheduled for next week.. She said it would be better not to have to get up and go to a conference the next day. But, some of the people at work have invited me out that night to celebrate a birthday. I am undecided as to what to do. ????? THey will probably go out somewhere to talk, relax and have a drink. I drink very little--occasional glass of wine. Comments?

> I'm excited for you. I think you will like the feelings you get after the session. You can let us know how it went that same day, but you won't "believe" it's really done until probably Monday or so. Never mind, you will see what I mean. Take care.

It's been a long stretch hasn't it? You leaned over and helped pull me back off that cliff almost 9 months ago--Thank you so much.

 

Re: EMDR-Dreams-for Susie

Posted by DL on April 14, 1999, at 18:33:24

In reply to Re: EMDR-Dreams, posted by Susie on April 14, 1999, at 14:07:44


> DL: Do you have someone who can stay with you for a while? If not, be assured that dreams helped me understand what may have been the root cause of the depression. That understanding was worth the nightmares!

No one to stay, but thank you so much for caring! I think I could handle the dreams if they happen since it would mean something was untangling and that would be good.

I used to have terrible dreams. When I was little I had a recurring dream where I was running inside a huge dark church type bldg. There was no noise at all. People were lined on both side walls with blank expressions and something terrible was after me. I couldn't see it but I always thought it was a big bear. There was a pit of some kind at the end and I would wake up before I fell in with the monster after me.

WHen I was older I had what I think were dreams, and the therapist I used to see told me they must have been. But it seemed as if they were real. I remembered burying something under the flagstone path, or in the basement. I was terrified that someone would see me or find out because I would be sent to jail for the terrible deed I had done. I used to spend a lot of time wondering about all of this. It seemed real--that I had done something morally and terribly wrong.


> I will say that since that intensive therapy time I have felt sooooo much better and I trust that your EMDR session(s) will be a step in your healing process.

Thank you thank you thank you for the support.

 

Re: EMDR--therapy

Posted by Toby on April 26, 1999, at 10:38:59

In reply to RE: EMDR--therapy--for TOBY, posted by DL on April 14, 1999, at 18:21:56

I guess you have had a session by now? How did it go? Did you actually work on a memory or did she start you out with relaxation imagery? Been hoping for good things quickly. Let us know.

 

Re: EMDR--therapy

Posted by DL on April 27, 1999, at 20:34:08

In reply to Re: EMDR--therapy, posted by Toby on April 26, 1999, at 10:38:59

> I guess you have had a session by now? How did it go? Did you actually work on a memory or did she start you out with relaxation imagery? Been hoping for good things quickly. Let us know.

I am a little confused. Yes I did have a session. I would like some help figuring out exactly what happened and if it's what should have happened?

1. The next day I felt totally exhausted and even my joints and muscles ached. All I did physically was sit in a chair and look at things popping into view inside me. Why would I feel that way?

2. Once the pictures/feelings/thoughts got turned on they didn't want to shut off. For the next few days it felt like a slide show was happening in my mind, and I couldn't make it stop. I seemed to be talking about the slides/thoughts (silently inside my head) as they came in an endless progression. When I was driving between visits they totally took over and it felt sort of like I was telling someone about the pictures, but I was really silent. It just wouldn't stop. I could pull my attention away when I needed to, but my concentration was terrible.

3. The "slides" did not stay with the picture where I started (see previous post). Scenes/thoughts from many different times in my life came up too. Does this mean something didn't work right?

4. Yes, I did cry, but it was an OK kind of cry. Not anguished, but like rain drops sliding down the window.

5. I was there for 2 hrs. I decided that my apartment here was the only "safe" place I could remember--to have a place to mentallygo to to calm down. The actual EMDR session was probably about an hour but I lost track of time. At the end I needed to go to my "safe place" to calm down some.

6. A few times I realized something I hadn't thought of consciously before about some of the "slides". Like, I noticed my mother at the other end of the table when the mealtime torture happened and wondered, "why didn't she do anything?"

7. AFTER the EMDR, on the way home I felt very "out of it" and floaty and vivid flashes continued. And for the first time, instead of experiencing the memories as me now-set back into the past---I saw a beautiful little blond girl clearly. And I was overcome with sadness for her and kept saying over and over "but she was only a little girl!" in my head. She should have been hugged and loved and protected.......

8. The therapist reminded me each time she stopped --to breathe deeply. I kept tensing up and holding my breath.

9. She gave me a choice of eye movements or tapping. She said I could switch if I wanted. This time Ichose the tapping, which was on my hands which were on my legs above my knees. Is it OK to close your eyes? I found myself doing this since I could feel the tapping through my body. I could 'see" the pictures better. But I did open my eyes sometimes when I saw something I hadn't seen before. Is it better to use the eye movements?

10. She said as I left that "we need to go back there again at some point" But she is planning a non-EMDR session to work on/with some of the things that came up. (I think sort of cog/beh stuff?) She has e-mail and does not mind if I use it as an "electronic journal"--and I did send her a rambling of the "slide shows" I experienced in the days after. Also had one strange dream that night about burglars taking things away from me--I don't usually have /remember dreams.

So, please comment. Is this going OK? Can you answer some of the stuff above. I am a little confused. I think I have a lot filed on the brain shelf I tapped that day. Sorry for being so long about this, but I am a little confused.
Dotty

 

For Toby--lost messages

Posted by DL on May 26, 1999, at 20:36:14

In reply to Re: EMDR--therapy, posted by DL on April 27, 1999, at 20:34:08

Toby,
A while ago you posted asking for an update on EMDR. I answered and routed you to this thread which had disappeared to April's archive. The message above was posted as dated but you missed it then it moved on. Your May post and my answer have disappeared as of tonight (5-26). Don't know where they went. I saw them a few days ago. I REALLY could use a check in and answer to my questions in post above. Also, if you have time I have more questions. And, the really great therapist you sent me to just found out she will be moving to Arizona! She is really great. Now I have to decide to stay with her till she completely moves (she will be back and forth since she is committed to teach here in the Fall)-or she can try to refer me to someone she knows (does not know of anyone who takes insurance near by who does EMDR. HELP!! I am feeling deserted again. Comments? Dotty

 

Re: switching therapists, part 2

Posted by Toby on May 28, 1999, at 12:33:04

In reply to For Toby--lost messages, posted by DL on May 26, 1999, at 20:36:14

Sorry, I hit "enter" instead of "tab" so I didn't actually write anything in the previous post. Sorry I missed your post from April; I've been looking for it but missed it I guess due to the end of the month.

All of the things you talked about in your post are normal occurrences for EMDR. The more extensive the trauma history, the more of all that stuff happens in the days following the session. I hope you have had more sessions since that one. It's best usually to have at least one session per week for the first month of so, especially for an extensive trauma history so that all the "flashcards" can be dealt with and don't just get recycled. Aches are common after the first session and any really intense sessions because we do tend to tense up unconsiously. Those moments you described of realizing things about the past or about your mother that you hadn't thought of before are very common and those are the things that help you move forward, grow and help put the past to rest. EMDR really does seem to open the flood gates initially because people tend to dam everything up and not look at it for so long that when the gate is opened, it all rushes out. However, please know that, just like releasing a flood of water, it will become a trickle as you move past it and resolve it for yourself. Don't try to stop it and dam it back up again. It will get better.

Advise about switching therapists: if it is feasible to continue seeing her often enough to keep the memories flowing and work on them (so you aren't stuck with them just recircultating around in your head for weeks at a time) I would say stay with her until she completely moves (especially since she will be around in the fall, that may be enough time to complete your treatment in totality). The thing about EMDR is to resolve things quickly so that you don't need to stay in therapy for such a long time. If everything isn't completely resolved by the time she moves she may be able to refer you to someone else, or if you are getting really good at doing EMDR, and only have a few relatively minor issues left, she may be willing to teach you the self-EMDR technique (don't worry about that now) and there are even a few audio tapes available now that can be used as relaxation tapes (they have some music on them while a therapist talks) but can be used to concentrate on issues and resolve them (they also have bilateral clicks that substitute for the eye movements).

And you asked about the eye movements versus hand taps. Both are fine, which ever you like best and can concentrate best with. It's perfectly fine to close your eyes while doing the hand taps.

More questions? Ask away.

 

Re: switching therapists, part 2

Posted by DL on May 28, 1999, at 22:22:00

In reply to Re: switching therapists, part 2, posted by Toby on May 28, 1999, at 12:33:04

> I hope you have had more sessions since that one. It's best usually to have at least one session per week for the first month of so, especially for an extensive trauma history so that all the "flashcards" can be dealt with and don't just get recycled.

Session one: get to know each other and decide if this will work out--some of my hx--etc.
Session two: the EMDR session I talked about
Session three: a talk session where I learned alot about me and decided to try EMDR again.
Session four: EMDR put off as therapist explained about leaving and what would be best: for me to move on to someone else now so I won't have to go through my story etc over again, or to stay with her knowing she will be in and out and then leave after Fall semester. Some talk about who I might transition to and perhaps getting a new psychiatrist to review meds. Remeron seems to be a little less effective, or perhaps it's just me or longer daylight. I have been usually going to sleep OK, but waking up more at night with that racy feeling and waking up early (5 AM) and not really getting back to sleep. Then I'm feeling the effects in the day at work. But still nothing like before Remeron. Weight gain has pretty much stopped, but can't seem to lose it no matter what. And, I'm doing OK, but some pretty low times showing up and it's not so easy to haul myself out of them. Perhaps work environment is an issue or whatever.
Session 5--to be this coming Thurs 6-3 at 5PM--EMDR. These are every other week, so EMDR has not been close or intense. She only sees people on Tue and Thurs since she taught on the other days and also mentors another therapist. perhaps now college is out she will have more time.

> Advise about switching therapists: if it is feasible to continue seeing her often enough to keep the memories flowing and work on them (so you aren't stuck with them just recircultating around in your head for weeks at a time) I would say stay with her until she completely moves (especially since she will be around in the fall, that may be enough time to complete your treatment in totality). The thing about EMDR is to resolve things quickly so that you don't need to stay in therapy for such a long time.

Wish I could have intensive tx but so far with her it hasn't worked out. Any suggestions? Any suggestions for next session?

>she may be willing to teach you the self-EMDR technique (don't worry about that now) and there are even a few audio tapes available now that can be used as relaxation tapes (they have some music on them while a therapist talks) but can be used to concentrate on issues and resolve them (they also have bilateral clicks that substitute for the eye movements).

Sound interesting....
>
> More questions? Ask away.

So, I have only had one EMDR session. She said she knows of one psychologist nearby who is excellent--many therapists go to him--but he does not take insurance and is expensive. His name is Mark Moses (Portsmouth). I sent her the EMDR list I had but she did know that some of the people I remembered from it do not actually use EMDR even though they were trained.

--I went through old photo albums from my past and pulled out pictures to take in and show her. My sisters and I were never smiling and I could see a real stubborness in my face behind the sadness--in at least the really young pictures. Too bad you can't see them--she said it was helpful to see them--quite a story in those faces.

--Don't know what to do about therapist. I am afraid to move to someone new who might not turn out to be as good a match. But, I think closer sessions would be better. And, the person she knows who sounds like she would be the best match does not do EMDR...

--Comments on whatever?? Thanks for coming back. Thanks thanks thanks for being there. Think I'll make it out of this and find some color and reality in life?? Or is it hopeless?

--Any suggestions about meds?

Dotty

 

Medscape article

Posted by DL on May 30, 1999, at 23:15:35

In reply to Re: switching therapists, part 2, posted by DL on May 28, 1999, at 22:22:00

If you go to Medscape and http://psychiatry.medscape.com/IMNG/ClinPsychNews/1999/v27.n04/cpn2704.20.01.html you will find an article on combining antidepressants from "Clinical Psychiatry" (1999). Any feed back? They use Effexor with Remeron.

 

Re: Medscape article

Posted by Elizabeth on May 31, 1999, at 0:52:46

In reply to Medscape article, posted by DL on May 30, 1999, at 23:15:35

Effexor + Remeron must be killer. I like that one.

Wow, they mention pindolol. Cool.

They got the mechanism for buspirone wrong though. It's a 5-HT1a *partial agonist*, not an antagonist (so far as anybody knows, anyway).

What I want to see more of is people talking about using BuSpar as antidepressant monotherapy. For some reason, even though it's been studied rather extensively, that never caught on.

 

Sleep

Posted by DL on June 1, 1999, at 20:19:13

In reply to Re: switching therapists, part 2, posted by DL on May 28, 1999, at 22:22:00

Scared. Last night was a LONG night. Absolutely no sleep. don't want to go back to that place again. The clock was in slow motion. No special ruminating thoughts, just that inner feeling of being to awake in the brain. Today felt like I had a ball and chain attached and the heat didn't help. Why does this happen? See above post--it has been slowly creeping up. I just want to scream. Also the great new therapist is suggesting that I have a few more EMDR sessions and then transition to a new therapist (supposed to be good but does not do EMDR). Is it possible that the few widely spaced sessions will be helpful, or not? I wish someone could just figure out this medication and sleep thing. It's been 8 mos on Remeron--nothing else. Any help Toby? Starting to feel lost again.

 

Re: Sleep

Posted by dwight on June 3, 1999, at 11:34:46

In reply to Sleep, posted by DL on June 1, 1999, at 20:19:13

If you are staying up all night, you probably need some sleep medication. Trazodone often works well for this--it doesn't have the side effects that benzos have. Another good one is Ambien. If you don't want to go that route you might try this: go to a health food store and get the following: melatonin, valerian root, and kava kava--these will help you relax and fall asleep, I promise.

> Scared. Last night was a LONG night. Absolutely no sleep. don't want to go back to that place again. The clock was in slow motion. No special ruminating thoughts, just that inner feeling of being to awake in the brain. Today felt like I had a ball and chain attached and the heat didn't help. Why does this happen? See above post--it has been slowly creeping up. I just want to scream. Also the great new therapist is suggesting that I have a few more EMDR sessions and then transition to a new therapist (supposed to be good but does not do EMDR). Is it possible that the few widely spaced sessions will be helpful, or not? I wish someone could just figure out this medication and sleep thing. It's been 8 mos on Remeron--nothing else. Any help Toby? Starting to feel lost again.

 

Re: Sleep

Posted by Toby on June 4, 1999, at 12:58:05

In reply to Sleep, posted by DL on June 1, 1999, at 20:19:13

I wonder if the sleep has changed because of the things you worked on in that first session and now it has been quite awhile in between so all the old stuff got stirred up and is trying to fight its way back to the surface. When that happens, it is hard to get sleep meds to work. About adding other antidepressants to the Remeron, I don't know if it would do you much good right now since you will be trying to work through the painful stuff very actively with the EMDR. That is bound to put your feelings into a chaotic state for awhile. Maybe using something like hydroxyzine or trazodone in very small doses for the anxiety or sleep may attenuate these feelings a little bit, or at least enough for you to function while you continue treatment. I think it would be best to go to a therapist who does EMDR, but even if that's not an option, just doing 3-4 sessions will be worth many many months in regular talk therapy and then whatever time you spend in regular therapy will progress faster than you would normally expect. I just got the new directory from the EMDR association. Here are the cities that list EMDR therapists in New Hampshire (I think NH is right; being southern, I get my New England states confused :) ).
Auburn, Concord, Derry, Exeter, Lebanon, Manchester, Nashua, Plainfield, Plymouth. If any of those are close to you, I will print the names associated with that area so you can explore switching to them when the time comes.

 

EMDR Therapy

Posted by Cynthia on June 5, 1999, at 22:11:03

In reply to Re: Sleep, posted by Toby on June 4, 1999, at 12:58:05

I could not find the original posting explaining exactly what EMDR Therapy is. I like the sounds of it, getting through your issues faster than with regular therapy. What do the initials stand for, what exactly is it, and how would I find a therapist who does it up here in Canada?

thanks,
Cynthia

 

Re: EMDR Therapy

Posted by DL on June 6, 1999, at 22:59:18

In reply to EMDR Therapy, posted by Cynthia on June 5, 1999, at 22:11:03

> I could not find the original posting explaining exactly what EMDR Therapy is and how would I find a therapist who does it up here in Canada?

http://www.pshrink.com/emdrfile.html is a web page (one of many) that gives some description of EMDR. It also will link you to the EMDR page which has a place where you can e-mail or write for a list of practicioners near you.

>
> thanks,
> Cynthia

 

Re: Sleep

Posted by DL on June 6, 1999, at 23:55:31

In reply to Re: Sleep, posted by Toby on June 4, 1999, at 12:58:05

> I wonder if the sleep has changed because of the things you worked on in that first session

Could be...the sleep has improved at the moment though. I was scared for a few days that I was slipping back to the total sleep deprivation pattern. Thank heavens it is improving!

>About adding other antidepressants to the Remeron, I don't know if it would do you much good right now

One of the worst things is the weight gain. It undermines self confidence more than anything else. I think I would go out more and enjoy myself more if I didn't feel so unattractive with this extra 25 pounds(since Remeron). I think some of it is a metabolism change but it's also an almost addictive mental connection with food. Intellectually I know I shouldn't eat but in the evening I seem to want to do nothing but eat, and it has little to do with being hungry then. And I am still fighting the "don't feel like doing anything" feeling all the time. I have seen people talk about Naltrexone (?) for addictive leanings and to counteract apathy. I haven't read up on it, how is it used and when? Would this be like adding Cylert (which you suggested last winter?)

>I think it would be best to go to a therapist who does EMDR, but even if that's not an option, just doing 3-4 sessions will be worth many many months in regular talk therapy and then whatever time you spend in regular therapy will progress faster than you would normally expect.

I had another EMDR session on 6/3 and will have 2 more--on6/8 and 6/10. The therapist is going out west to help look for a house etc for the move--for the last few weeks of June into July so I asked to have more sessions intensively if possible. Fell into some really intense feelings last time. Things I had never really processed before.
QUESTIONS
1. I used eye movements this time. Right off I sensed that if I allowed my self, or if the therapist didn't stop periodically, I would float right off with the eye movements. This was similar to when I was young and thought I could float up by the ceiling. The therapist sensed this and altered the pace/timing. Is this just me or does this happen to other people?

2. The therapist always reminds me to breathe when she stops the eye movements because I tend to get tense. At one point she changed the direction of the finger movements for a short time (sort of up and down or diagonal up and down) and suddenly I relaxed in the shoulder area. Was this just coincidence? Or is this a technique?

3. I came to some pictures/places where there were no words to describe the pain, grief, sadness, aloneness, anger (yes I sometimes to recognize it there!) and I was silent. I think there was guilt somewhere below it all-I just couldn't talk, even though I think I wanted to. Why is this?

4. This therapist is very perceptive at picking up my physical sensations even when I am blocking them. Why is it so hard for me to tune into how I am feeling, and how emotions affect me physically? If these affects are so easy to see, why don't I recognize them?

5. I did not have as long an after affect with this session as the first. The rambling pictures stopped after a few hours. I'm thinking it's because I hit those areas where I just couldn't share--and that I blocked at that point. I seemed to move out of myself and away from the emotions so they were not accessible to me (during that part of the EMDR). What does this mean?


>I just got the new directory from the EMDR association
> Auburn, Concord, Derry, Exeter, Lebanon, Manchester, Nashua, Plainfield, Plymouth. If any of those are close to you, I will print the names associated with that area so you can explore switching to them when the time comes.

There should be more cities listed for NH. My last list had Portsmouth and Dover and Durham listed. Of the ones you listed, Exeter is closest (25 min), Manchester and Concord are both about 45 min drive. Nashua about an hour.

Thanks for the continued support. Now I am trying to get up the courage to call a new psychiatrist. Haven't seen the other one since over 4 months. I only have one refil of Remeron left. I wish there was someone knowledgeable enough to do a thorough work up to check out any medical/physical issues that may be part of the sleep etc. and to figure out what part the hormones play and even to look at the borderline thyroid (remember?)Both the therapist and I feel there are some issues there. I read about doctors/psychiatrists who do this but in NH I don't think they exist. The therapist also suggested a sleep study like you did once. I have asked primary care docs at various times and talked to OB/GYN and psychiatrist and all seemed to pass it off to another person as not their area. OH, well!

would like to get some "get up and go" back!


 

Re: Sleep

Posted by Toby on June 9, 1999, at 11:57:22

In reply to Re: Sleep, posted by DL on June 6, 1999, at 23:55:31

> I have seen people talk about Naltrexone (?) for addictive leanings and to counteract apathy. I haven't read up on it, how is it used and when? Would this be like adding Cylert (which you suggested last winter?)

I am not familiar with Naltrexone (trade name Revia) being used for energy but I have seen it used for addictions besides drugs, like food addictions. However, I wonder if the eating is not only a side effect of the Remeron but also a component of the depression (some people lose their appetite when depressed, others get a massive appetite). You also mentioned the floating feeling during the EMDR and Revia has been found to help stop that kind of dissociation during stress. However, I am not sure I would recommend that right now as you are trying to really face the past and need to be aware of all your body's defenses and reactions to those memories.

> QUESTIONS
> 1. I used eye movements this time. Right off I sensed that if I allowed my self, or if the therapist didn't stop periodically, I would float right off with the eye movements. This was similar to when I was young and thought I could float up by the ceiling. The therapist sensed this and altered the pace/timing. Is this just me or does this happen to other people?

This does happen sometimes in EMDR when there is a really stressful memory and the brain is trying to protect you from it. It especially occurs when it is a defense that has been present since childhood. It is something to be aware of when it occurs and just to notice it. Don't fight it or anything, just notice it and let your therapist be aware of it.

> 2. The therapist always reminds me to breathe when she stops the eye movements because I tend to get tense. At one point she changed the direction of the finger movements for a short time (sort of up and down or diagonal up and down) and suddenly I relaxed in the shoulder area. Was this just coincidence? Or is this a technique?

Some people do forget to breathe during the first part of EMDR because of anxious memories. I just quietly say, "Breathe," during the sets of eye movements to remind them and it doesn't seem to interrupt any processing. Also, changing directions does seem to access different aspects of memories or body sensations. It is a kind of "technique" but it isn't a "trick," it really does seem to trigger different reactions.

> 3. I came to some pictures/places where there were no words to describe the pain, grief, sadness, aloneness, anger (yes I sometimes to recognize it there!) and I was silent. I think there was guilt somewhere below it all-I just couldn't talk, even though I think I wanted to. Why is this?

I couldn't really give an accurate answer to the why of it, but I have seen that happen pretty frequently, where there are images or just feelings, but no words or thoughts. These are just things to notice. Your brain will process it and if there is something to say or think about it, those words will come. If, however, your brain processes it and just wants to leave it behind without comment, let it do so.

> 4. This therapist is very perceptive at picking up my physical sensations even when I am blocking them. Why is it so hard for me to tune into how I am feeling, and how emotions affect me physically? If these affects are so easy to see, why don't I recognize them?

For one thing, she has a lot of experience at noticing emotional reactions and responding to them. It's not that these affects are so easy to see, it's that she knows what to look for. You, however, have been taught from early childhood to block your feelings, do your duty, tolerate everyone else's emotions and work to make them feel better. How on earth could you expect yourself to recognize what you are feeling and then validate it or acknowledge that it's OK to feel it or that something needs to be done for you to help make it better? That is what you are doing now: working to make it OK to let out your feelings and recognize them and come to realize that if you do let them out they won't overwhelm you, the bad feelings will end (i.e., some people worry that if they start crying or anything that they won't be able to stop), and they serve a purpose (i.e., warn of danger etc, and that they can be useful to you if you listen to them and make the choices you think are best for you... you do have choices now, not like when you were a child).

> 5. I did not have as long an after affect with this session as the first. The rambling pictures stopped after a few hours. I'm thinking it's because I hit those areas where I just couldn't share--and that I blocked at that point. I seemed to move out of myself and away from the emotions so they were not accessible to me (during that part of the EMDR). What does this mean?

That's also hard to answer because I'm not sure if you really did block the emotions or if they just resolved and you aren't familiar with that kind of feeling (sometimes resolution causes a big empty feeling for awhile until a person learns to fill it in with good stuff). If you are pretty sure you were blocking, make sure you let your therapist know when it is happening so she can make some adjustments (like with directions of the eye movements). Also, try not to block. When it gets painful, try to focus specifically on that feeling even more intently, remembering that it will not last forever, and just notice what happens. I am betting that feeling will start to change on its own, without you trying to block it and that you will notice other changes along with that.

> There should be more cities listed for NH. My last list had Portsmouth and Dover and Durham listed. Of the ones you listed, Exeter is closest (25 min), Manchester and Concord are both about 45 min drive. Nashua about an hour.

Sheryl Kamman-Russman, Psy.D. of Exeter Psychological Assoc., 14 Hampton Rd, Exeter, NH 03833, (603) 772-2187 and she specializes in PTSD and Sexual Abuse. Don't have info on insurance, etc.

Let me know how the session went yesterday.

 

EMDR for Toby-help?

Posted by DL on June 11, 1999, at 17:48:59

In reply to Re: Sleep, posted by Toby on June 9, 1999, at 11:57:22

>That is what you are doing now: working to make it OK to let out your feelings and recognize them and come to realize that if you do let them out they won't overwhelm you, the bad feelings will end (i.e., some people worry that if they start crying or anything that they won't be able to stop), and they serve a purpose (i.e., warn of danger etc, and that they can be useful to you if you listen to them and make the choices you think are best for you... you do have choices now, not like when you were a child).

I am finding it easier to go with the flow in EMDR. But I wonder later how I will ever learn to sense what my body is telling me? I seem to recognize NOTHING really except for tension in my chest, throat and that wired feeling inside when I get into difficult places. It makes me feel SO dense and inhuman. At the last session she would ask me what I was feeling in my body and I would always just say the tension in my chest/throat. But then she would say "what do you notice about the left side of your body" and I wouldn't notice anything, and then I would look and my foot would be all tight and tipped on its side--and I didn't know why. And one time she said quietly, may I touch your hand? And then I noticed (after she touched it) that my hands were stone cold (and it was warm out). Another time she quietly said, "what was that that started to bring tears to your eyes?" and I didn't know this was happening. This makes me feel pretty inhuman. How can I be so unable to feel these things? How can these feelings become useful to me if I can't feel or recognize them?


>
> > 5. I did not have as long an after affect with this session as the first. The rambling pictures stopped after a few hours. I'm thinking it's because I hit those areas where I just couldn't share--and that I blocked at that point. I seemed to move out of myself and away from the emotions so they were not accessible to me (during that part of the EMDR). What does this mean?
>
If you are pretty sure you were blocking, make sure you let your therapist know when it is happening so she can make some adjustments (like with directions of the eye movements).

It is pretty intense for me and sometimes I seem to stare at a scene and I'm tongue tied but I want to say something. Once during the last session she did a figure 8 type of finger movement for a short time. It seemed to make all the connections go away and I had a sort of light queasy feeling. She asked, I told her and she went back to the other back and forth.

Also, try not to block. When it gets painful, try to focus specifically on that feeling even more intently, remembering that it will not last forever, and just notice what happens.

It is so hard for me to focus on feelings. They all just seem to feel like tension and numbness and pins and needles or something like that. I am getting a little crazy about this. I want to feel more but I don't know how. But I will try this--to focus on what I do feel.

> I am betting that feeling will start to change on its own, without you trying to block it and that you will notice other changes along with that.

I am getting alittle scared that this will never happen for me.

>
> Sheryl Kamman-Russman, Psy.D. of Exeter Psychological Assoc., 14 Hampton Rd, Exeter, NH 03833, (603) 772-2187 and she specializes in PTSD and Sexual Abuse. Don't have info on insurance, etc.

Thanks for the above. I will keep it handy. I am not sure how long I can stay with Kathy. She is going out to find a place to live the end of next week (18th)and won't be back until into the beginning of July. I have an appt Thurs 17th. My insurance through work changes July 1. It's some kind of group managed for our agency by some health company. It's a PPO. good is that only $5 or $10 co-pay for drugs. THat will help with Remeron and perhaps I will try to find someone to help do the natural hormone thing again. But, she is not a member of this one. So, I will have to pay most of the $70 session probably.

> Let me know how the session went yesterday.

See above.

--Last time we got into some things I could not have predicted would come up. It's not fun. It's hard. This time I am feeling tense and more like during PPD times. So far I am sleeping lately. But most of the day I am feeling tight, wired, and have to remind myself to breathe. I am confused by some of this and I e-mail the therapist and she is good about responding. I seem to have a processing lag and things come up later. I e-mailed her right after the last session and apparently it was full of questions--about how she knows things and I don't..here is part of her answer:

Please try not to wonder about how or why I ask or observe certain things (that's my job and my
training). the more important thing is to figure out how you can begin to be more aware of it for yourself. That is the work of everyone in therapy
actually. At least, that is my opinion. so, remember this is a process and not a final end project. What you hope to do in therapy is to learn how to focus on your own body messages and needs in a way that is helpful for you, without harming others.

You are right. This is hard. How do I stop feeling so wound up? And, did I kill too much of myself over the years to be able to really feel again and learn from my feeligs?


 

Re: feelings

Posted by Toby on June 16, 1999, at 10:36:22

In reply to EMDR for Toby-help?, posted by DL on June 11, 1999, at 17:48:59

> I am finding it easier to go with the flow in EMDR.
> It is so hard for me to focus on feelings. They all just seem to feel like tension and numbness and pins and needles or something like that. I am getting a little crazy about this. I want to feel more but I don't know how. But I will try this--to focus on what I do feel.

When I say 'focus on what you feel' I am not really talking about "emotions" I am talking about the physical sensations that you are describing above. Those physical sensations are exactly what you need to notice and then let your mind go where it needs to go to make the connections that will find the source of those physical sensations and resolve them.


> I am getting alittle scared that this will never happen for me.

That's a normal fear. Please go back and look at your last two posts. Although there is still much to work on, there are signs that things are flowing along, that it's easier to go with the flow, that things are coming up that have been buried, and that the chaotic feelings are abating more quickly. All of those things show movement. And look how soon they have occurred after starting this whole thing. Just a few weeks. We know EMDR works fast, and because it does, sometimes we feel it should be even faster (like instantaneous) but it is still a process and your body and mind have to have a little time to integrate all the processed stuff and make sense of it. So don't think you are too slow or aren't doing it right or anything. Everybody goes at their own pace. (Actually, as I read further on down, I see this is similar to what you therapist said, so I will leave it there to remind you)

> Please try not to wonder about how or why I ask or observe certain things (that's my job and my
> training). the more important thing is to figure out how you can begin to be more aware of it for yourself. That is the work of everyone in therapy
> actually. At least, that is my opinion. so, remember this is a process and not a final end project. What you hope to do in therapy is to learn how to focus on your own body messages and needs in a way that is helpful for you, without harming others.

> You are right. This is hard. How do I stop feeling so wound up?

Did she do an exercise with you called the "Safe Place"? If so, go there when you need to relax and unwind. Really GO there in your mind. Hear the sounds, smell the smells, see the light and the environment and the details, feel the air and surfaces and the temperature, EXPERIENCE it all, breathe slowly (in for 4 counts, out for 4 counts) and where you feel tenseness in your body, concentrate on it and make it purposefully relax then go back to experiencing the safe place.

> And, did I kill too much of myself over the years to be able to really feel again and learn from my feeligs?

Well, the answer to that is NO!! You continue to have lots of feelings, you just ignore and deny the good ones and embrace the bad ones because that has been the only safe way to do it. Those feelings are still around, you just now have to learn to access them again and it is indeed possible to do that.

 

Re: feelings

Posted by DL on June 18, 1999, at 13:01:44

In reply to Re: feelings, posted by Toby on June 16, 1999, at 10:36:22

>Please go back and look at your last two posts. Although there is still much to work on, there are signs that things are flowing along, that it's easier to go with the flow, that things are coming up that have been buried, and that the chaotic feelings are abating more quickly. All of those things show movement.

Thanks for the cheering squad!! Last session was yesterday evening. Now she will be gone until July 8th, when I have another appt. So there are 3 weeks--hopefully everything won't slide back under wraps (although in some ways that is easier). Yesterday we talked about all the things that came up in last EMDR. It all seemed to burst forth from an image of pacing back and forth and back and forth, and feeling tight like a thin stretched wire ready to break. Perhaps even the pace of the eye movements helped. --pacing in anguish, trying to pick up the phone a few years ago to ask for help, pacing the bedroom with an alcholic husband passed out, pulling the covers up over his face and hoping he would stop breathing (this is when my hands turned cold), my father walking up and down the hallway upstairs when I was in highschool, after his bath (cooling down-with nothing on), sitting in a parking lot in the dark, holding my prescription (after about 4 mos of AD trials and still crazy)and swinging in my mind from 'try alittle longer" to "I want to slip away". ANd on and on and on. But the surprise was an image from my college years that I had buried because I was so ashamed. Never told anyone. And, it was a true trauma--including hospital admission. And I had filed it under my father's perspective of "look at the way she's dressed/or her make up/or what she said/ or just about anything--she's asking for it". And it was so hard to talk about. It took me about 10 min just to get up the courage. And, I totally reframed the incident! I looked at it with my eyes now and the therapist asked what would we call it now if it happened on a college campus? And without hesitation I said "date rape" and I was so surprised because I had taken the whole responsibility on myself because I had been drinking. THat was very hard but also very liberating. And remember the observation about my hands and feet curled up tight? This is where it came from. I went into shock and my blood pressure bottomed out and when I came to my hands and feet were numb and cold and cramped into a curled postion. I hope this does not offend anyone. And Dr. Bob can erase it if he'd like. But it just wanted to have validation from even another source. This was more than 30 years ago and was never processed I guess. So, things are moving but it is such hard work. And, it will be hard when the therapist leaves. She wants to transition me to someone else by September. And I want to grab her and keep her here, but of course I can't.


> Did she do an exercise with you called the "Safe Place"? If so, go there when you need to relax and unwind. Really GO there in your mind. Hear the sounds, smell the smells, see the light and the environment and the details, feel the air and surfaces and the temperature, EXPERIENCE it all, breathe slowly (in for 4 counts, out for 4 counts) and where you feel tenseness in your body, concentrate on it and make it purposefully relax then go back to experiencing the safe place.

Yes, the only "safe place" i could think of was my apartment. I can feel safe there. Couldn't think of anywhere else. But I would like a better image with nice smells and feels etc. I have a nice picture of evening walking with a friend by the ocean. It was pink and there was a light breeze and it felt magical and it means 'peace' to me. but I don't know if it means 'safe' to me.

> Well, the answer to that is NO!! You continue to have lots of feelings, you just ignore and deny the good ones and embrace the bad ones because that has been the only safe way to do it. Those feelings are still around, you just now have to learn to access them again and it is indeed possible to do that.

Again, I seem to need this reinforcement over and over. I don't really believe it yet.
As always thank you. I think I first posted to Toby last Aug. You have hung in there for me for a long time. I have sent in info to a new psychiatrists office recommended by the therapist. They tell me he does not have openings till Sept. So I will set one up. However it will be too late to get the remeron script needed in early August.
Thanks, thanks.

 

Re: safe place

Posted by Toby on June 22, 1999, at 7:57:52

In reply to Re: feelings, posted by DL on June 18, 1999, at 13:01:44

Just two things:

The safe place can be any place you want, whether real or imagined. The beach scene you describe is a frequent place many people use. You can incorporate real and imagined elements into it. Make it as safe and peaceful as you can. It's your own and can be whatever you want.

You wondered if things would go back to the way they were before once your therapist leaves for three weeks. I can tell you that they won't. Once you have processed something, it stays processed. In my experience, if an event seems to be processed and then later it feels disturbing again, it generally turns out to be because we missed something about the event that turns out to be important. And once that important thing is processed, it's over with. So, while you have this three week break, the things you have worked on will reorganize themselves into a new framework and may (or may not completely, depending on how much you got processed) go completely out of your consciousness and by that I mean settle down to being "history." This does not mean you have "buried" it, it just becomes "something that happened back then" and no longer holds power over you. It will take awhile for your consciousness to get used to that and accept that it really is "history" and won't be popping up like a jack-in-the-box.


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