Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 6389

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Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by MelindaJ on May 22, 1999, at 15:49:48

I've been taking Zoloft (50mg) for about a year now and
in addition to the weight I've gained I've become laid
back to the point of downright apathy about some things.

Has anyone found that a reduction in the medication helps?
I've considered cutting my daily dose in half or taking the
full dose every other day.

Overall, Zoloft has been a very beneficial drug for me - I
just wonder if I should take a break from it for a while.


 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by chuck on May 24, 1999, at 13:33:10

In reply to Zoloft and Apathy, posted by MelindaJ on May 22, 1999, at 15:49:48


> Hi---->just a note of caution: should you decide to take zoloft again (after taking a break), you may not get the same effect. And the change may well be for the worse. Do consider this when deciding whether or not to continue with Zoloft.

By the way, i have a few friends who also take Zoloft, and they report the same sort of 'apathy'. Now that I think of it, one of those friends stopped taking Zoloft for this reason (largely), but smokes a whole lot of pot instead, almost an ounce a week.

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by Sean on May 24, 1999, at 14:47:49

In reply to Zoloft and Apathy, posted by MelindaJ on May 22, 1999, at 15:49:48

> I've been taking Zoloft (50mg) for about a year now and
> in addition to the weight I've gained I've become laid
> back to the point of downright apathy about some things.
>
> Has anyone found that a reduction in the medication helps?
> I've considered cutting my daily dose in half or taking the
> full dose every other day.
>
> Overall, Zoloft has been a very beneficial drug for me - I
> just wonder if I should take a break from it for a while.
>
>
>

SSRI's do cause apathy. I've personally gone off
these drugs just so I could get back to having a
feeling of being internally alive. It is very
difficult to compose music when everything seems
so arbitrary.

This phenomenon is real, and may be related to the
"neutering" effect lots of people have. Can we
really say that a drug which basically destroys
erotic drive can make you happy? I think not... I
have spoken to so many people about the "apathy
effect" but you never read about it.

Clearly it is better to be in a state of neutral
feelings than suicidal. But I can't say that
neutrality is the same as hapiness. The existential
drive of being human is also part of the deal
and if there is anything close to a "positive"
part of depression, it would be our rather over
developed sense of existential struggle. My
feeling is that it is this struggle which explains
the creativity of many depressed and bipolar
people. This struggle brings a degree of intensity
and sharpness of focus to the creative act. On
the other hand, if you are dead, you ain't doing
anybody any good.

I actually have some poems I tried to write while
on zoloft. They pretty much suck. I found that I
became more of a *consumer* of popular media,
rather than the creator of substantive works. It
is really wierd to experience this.

Mind you, this does not happen on amitriptyline...

Can anybody relate to this? Has anybody had the
experience of coming home from work and just
sitting there not knowing what to do? That it all
seems so arbitrary? That you begin to develop
more escapist tastes in music and film? That you
don't care about being overweight, that you eat
like crazy, etc.. etc..?

Needless to say, I don't think SSRI's are the
answer...

Sean.

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean

Posted by ruth on May 24, 1999, at 15:21:19

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy, posted by Sean on May 24, 1999, at 14:47:49

Sean,

Yes, I can totally relate. My main beefs with the
ssri's are weight gain and lack of sexual intensity/
interest, but also, as you mention the apathy.
I'm an artist too, and creativity is very
important to me. I think the apathy and feeling
that sort of internal numbness is also a part of
what causes me to go off and on ad's so often.
But unfortunately, I can't tolerate the depression
very well either. So I go back on. Then I can't
tolerate the apathy and other side effects, and
go off. I can't tolerate either state very well.
Umm....where am I going with this...I don't know..
just to say I relates strongly to that struggle.
Did you say you'd found a drug (amitriptyline?)
that didn't cause the apathy? Or have you just
decided to deal with your depression off medication?


 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean

Posted by Sean on May 24, 1999, at 17:03:50

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean, posted by ruth on May 24, 1999, at 15:21:19

> Sean,
>
> Yes, I can totally relate. My main beefs with the
> ssri's are weight gain and lack of sexual intensity/
> interest, but also, as you mention the apathy.
> I'm an artist too, and creativity is very
> important to me. I think the apathy and feeling
> that sort of internal numbness is also a part of
> what causes me to go off and on ad's so often.
> But unfortunately, I can't tolerate the depression
> very well either. So I go back on. Then I can't
> tolerate the apathy and other side effects, and
> go off. I can't tolerate either state very well.
> Umm....where am I going with this...I don't know..
> just to say I relates strongly to that struggle.
> Did you say you'd found a drug (amitriptyline?)
> that didn't cause the apathy? Or have you just
> decided to deal with your depression off medication?

I found amitriptyline to not cause the apathy. This
may be because it also tweaks on the dopamine/nor
epinephrine circuits along with the serotonin, but
I'm no doc, so this is just a subjective impression.
I have heart problems, however, so I can't really
take ami in the useful doses like I used to. It
does help with sleep though, which most SSRI's seem
to disrupt.

My strategy, which isn't really a strategy but a
response to meds, sounds like yours. I go on a med
until I can't tolerate it or it stops working. I've
actually been using zoloft as a way to shift my
sleep cycle for early mornings, for public performance,
and when I can use the mindless hypomania it causes
me. If I stay on it more than a month I'm pretty
much unable to sleep, smoking pot like it is going
out of style, and starting to meld into a manic
kind of state, which is all wonderful compared to
the black, brain-dead state of depression, but
pretty lame overall. I've also been on Li, but talk
about weight gain, sheesh! I'm now considering one
of the newer mood stabilizers, but to be honest,
I think even the low dose ami (50mg) is doing
something good for me- along the lines of mood
stabilization - without gnarly side effects and
the hassle of multiple meds.

Tis' complex is it not? Molecular free will...

Sean.

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by John on May 25, 1999, at 3:19:24

In reply to Zoloft and Apathy, posted by MelindaJ on May 22, 1999, at 15:49:48

> I've been taking Zoloft (50mg) for about a year now and
> in addition to the weight I've gained I've become laid
> back to the point of downright apathy about some things.
>
> Has anyone found that a reduction in the medication helps?
> I've considered cutting my daily dose in half or taking the
> full dose every other day.
>
> Overall, Zoloft has been a very beneficial drug for me - I
> just wonder if I should take a break from it for a while.
>
>
My primary symtom is apathy. Zoloft didn't help at all for that. I think it just got worse. Paxil, Prozac, Celexa all seem to do that. They remove the lows, but the highs too. Everything becomes regulated and flat. These drugs are lifesavers for some, but the apathy thing can really wear a person down after a while, and SSRIs are notoriously guilty in my personal expereince. John.
>

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by Wayne R. on May 25, 1999, at 5:30:19

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy, posted by John on May 25, 1999, at 3:19:24

I am augmenting an SSRI with Naltrexone which finaly relieved my depression after 35 years of searching for relief. After several months on the SSRI I noticed apathy was the remaining issue. Increasing the Naltrexone to 50mg per day solved that! See my various postings beginning in February for more information. Best regards... Wayne

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean

Posted by ruth on May 25, 1999, at 8:09:31

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean, posted by Sean on May 24, 1999, at 17:03:50

>Sean,

what sorts of side effects do you have with the
Elavil (amitriptyline)? Do you have the sexual
side effects,or the weight gain thing>? It's
funny b/c I've been toying with the idea of
going on one of the older ad's, TCA's, thinking
maybe they don't have the flattening effect of
the ssri's...

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean--P.S.

Posted by ruth on May 25, 1999, at 8:17:47

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean, posted by ruth on May 25, 1999, at 8:09:31

I was just reading an article on Paul Westerberg,
formerly frontman for the pop-punk band
The Replacements, now an acoustic-oriented
singer-songwriter. He's depressive himself.
His latest album, which is being widely
acclaimed as his best, was written when
he deliberately stopped taking medication
for a while because it was interfering with
his songwriting...

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean

Posted by Sean on May 25, 1999, at 13:00:44

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean, posted by ruth on May 25, 1999, at 8:09:31

> >Sean,
>
> what sorts of side effects do you have with the
> Elavil (amitriptyline)? Do you have the sexual
> side effects,or the weight gain thing>? It's
> funny b/c I've been toying with the idea of
> going on one of the older ad's, TCA's, thinking
> maybe they don't have the flattening effect of
> the ssri's...

Dry mouth, constipation are the big ones. Also a
bit dizzy when standing up (sometimes). I developed
cardiac arrhythmias, however, so I really can't
take 100mg dose. Ami does help with sleep, which
for me, is pretty key to keeping my moods stable.
If I lose sleep, I start getting really wound up.

As for the creative stuff, I find I do better work
when I'm slowed down a little and able to really
hang with what I'm feeling and hearing. For me,
amitriptyline did not get in the way. Zo and Zac
did. I also never experienced a "poop out" on
ami and took it for many years before reducing the
dose.

Hope this helps!

Sean.

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean--P.S.

Posted by Sean on May 25, 1999, at 13:06:30

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy--Sean--P.S., posted by ruth on May 25, 1999, at 8:17:47

> I was just reading an article on Paul Westerberg,
> formerly frontman for the pop-punk band
> The Replacements, now an acoustic-oriented
> singer-songwriter. He's depressive himself.
> His latest album, which is being widely
> acclaimed as his best, was written when
> he deliberately stopped taking medication
> for a while because it was interfering with
> his songwriting...

Wow, that is kind of cool! I've always been a
Westerberg/Replacements fan. I should get his
latest album.

Wonder what he was taking? (hee hee hee!)

Sean.

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by Joanne on May 25, 1999, at 20:03:49

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy, posted by John on May 25, 1999, at 3:19:24

Wow! I always seem to find something useful here at just the right time...
I've been taking 50mg of Zoloft a day for about the last 3 months... it
did help my depression... I don't feel like I cry all the time anymore,
or cry at the drop of a hat... unfortunately, I don't feel anything... it's
the apathy y'all are talking about. I've been trying to decide which is
worse to me... not feeling anything, or crying all the time. For now, for
me, the crying all the time is worse. Right now, I'll take apathy. Mind you,
I don't like it, and it doesn't fit in my overall lifestyle, which I try to
keep pretty upbeat when possible, is still better.
I don't know... maybe I'm a freak.
Also, I too, am an artist... I write poetry, and I've found that since being on
the Zoloft, I can't write anything worth a damn. It's all a bunch of rambling...
like the words don't make sense, and they don't make me feel things the way I used
to...
Hmmm... come to think of it, my poetry has always been a little on the down side
anyway. Maybe I write better when I'm depressed?
Who knows...
But it's definately something to think about.
Thanks once more for helping me look at things in a different way!!

Joanne

 

Re: Zoloft and Apathy

Posted by Sean on May 26, 1999, at 12:52:57

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy, posted by Joanne on May 25, 1999, at 20:03:49

> Wow! I always seem to find something useful here at just the right time...
> I've been taking 50mg of Zoloft a day for about the last 3 months... it
> did help my depression... I don't feel like I cry all the time anymore,
> or cry at the drop of a hat... unfortunately, I don't feel anything... it's
> the apathy y'all are talking about. I've been trying to decide which is
> worse to me... not feeling anything, or crying all the time. For now, for
> me, the crying all the time is worse. Right now, I'll take apathy. Mind you,
> I don't like it, and it doesn't fit in my overall lifestyle, which I try to
> keep pretty upbeat when possible, is still better.
> I don't know... maybe I'm a freak.
> Also, I too, am an artist... I write poetry, and I've found that since being on
> the Zoloft, I can't write anything worth a damn. It's all a bunch of rambling...
> like the words don't make sense, and they don't make me feel things the way I used
> to...
> Hmmm... come to think of it, my poetry has always been a little on the down side
> anyway. Maybe I write better when I'm depressed?
> Who knows...
> But it's definately something to think about.
> Thanks once more for helping me look at things in a different way!!
>
> Joanne

Hey Joanne,

It is nice to know that we aren't alone in this
particular "side effect"... I wonder if any of the
drug makers/researchers ever hear about this kind
of thing? From a public health point of view, it
is better to have people comfortably numb than
suicidal I suppose, but you do have to worry
about limiting the range of human experience,
expression, and the existential motivations behind
it.

I do know that I'm not very social when I'm in a
deeply creative space, and that from a conventional
psychoanalytic viewpoint, I'm probably some combination
of "dysthymic with comorbid social avoidance features"
or even "narcissistic disturbance with hypomanic frills"
but jeez, this is my reality isn't it? I get the
pain and suicidal thoughts, but I also get the
intensity and drive to create something using
*all* of my brain, experience, and heart-
dysfunctional though it be when compared to the
average consumer...

But is being average and normal anything to aspire
to? This is probably crazy to say, but I get so
used to thinking about killing myself that I forget
that it is abnormal and that lots of people go
through life without ever really considering it.
I have taken an oath with myself that I won't
*ever* do it, but it seems like a normal part of the
emotional spectrum for me.

The emotion of melancholy is a powerful thing. My
favorite artists and music are able to evoke this
incredible, spine-tingling sense of sadness and
hope which I think all of us humans are enriched
by. Yet most people don't realize that you need
to spend some serious time in the deep dark
water to actually find your muse and produce this
stuff. This journey is downright dangerous in my
opinion; the path of the artist is strewn with
the corpses of suicides.

But is this art actually better than "happy" art?
Well, I suppose it depends on the person. I know
people who are prefectly happy listening to Phil
Collins and hanging the cheesiest crap on their
walls. Who am I to say their subjective experience
is any different from me listening to say, Arvo
Part and reading some Anne Sexton? I do know that
when I'm munching SSRI's I don't *get* the dark
arts; they don't apply to my life.

I suppose the moral of the story is that whatever
is going on in our brains is not limited to the
clinical description of depression. It would
seem to have deep connections to our tastes and
fundamental personality traits, things we have
used to some advantage and are maybe almost
proud of.

Odd what a little tweak on the serotonin will do
isn't it?

Sean.


 

zoloft and apathy

Posted by paul on May 26, 1999, at 16:37:42

In reply to Re: Zoloft and Apathy, posted by Sean on May 26, 1999, at 12:52:57

Fascinating discussion. I've been on and off zoloft for a couple of years, and I too can relate to this apathy- to a certain extent. The tricky thing, though, is that I don't "feel" it as a drug effect, per se. It is difficult for me to whether it is a discrete effect of the drug or if I just stopped caring so much about everything, coincidentally, right after I started taking zoloft. I think I know the answer.

But that's the subtlety of SSRI's, I guess. It's sort of a paradoxical situation, I suppose: I have a vague awareness that I'm more complacent with my situation and those around me who would have previously brought me down or depressed me with their lack of "depth" or whatever, yet I am apathetic about being apathetic. It could be an attribute of getting into my late 20's and simply not caring as much about small things as I used to. Or, it could be just "not sweating the small stuff" or whatever. But there is one thing I should care about more, though, which is getting back to work, which has nothing to do with this bulletin board!

 

Re: zoloft and apathy

Posted by AngieMc on September 26, 2000, at 15:57:31

In reply to zoloft and apathy, posted by paul on May 26, 1999, at 16:37:42

I just have to contribute here. I have taken 100mgs of Zoloft a day for almost 3 years. I'm a graphic designer and a writer and don't feel that Zoloft has hurt either discipline. I can relate to the apathetic feeling, but believe you can motivate yourself out of that state and into a more proactive one. If anything, Zoloft clears away the obsessiveness and needless worry so that I can get to the business of creating.

 

Re: zoloft and apathy

Posted by Ted on October 2, 2000, at 21:10:50

In reply to Re: zoloft and apathy, posted by AngieMc on September 26, 2000, at 15:57:31

I am taking zoloft 175mg + wellbutrin 150mg bid. When my zoloft was 150 mg, I had the same symptoms (apathy, no interest in anything). Once it was raised to 175 mg, I started *really* feeling better, and my motivation returned. I would suspect your apathy is related to your depression not being sufficiently treated. Try upping the zoloft and/or adding wellbutrin.

Ted


> I just have to contribute here. I have taken 100mgs of Zoloft a day for almost 3 years. I'm a graphic designer and a writer and don't feel that Zoloft has hurt either discipline. I can relate to the apathetic feeling, but believe you can motivate yourself out of that state and into a more proactive one. If anything, Zoloft clears away the obsessiveness and needless worry so that I can get to the business of creating.


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