Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 4377

Shown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation

Posted by Elaine on April 5, 1999, at 21:00:00

In reply to Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Elaine on April 3, 1999, at 20:58:44

Wow. Just a quick comment about hypnosis - which I would like to keep open as an option. Since you are so adamant about being forced to do anything, it seems you would be a perfect hypnosis candidate, since you can't be forced to do anything in hypnosis you wouldn't normally allow yourself to do, anyway.
The diagnosis is still in the works. I don't have any of the "typical" DID symptoms like amnesia. I like your comment about the psychiatric camps on the issue, they do seem rather split themselves (!) about it.
So what about 1978-1980 (MPD dx)? And to what degree do you dissociate? Is it just the extent of feeling like you're floating out of your body when you're driving, or do you dissociate into "parts"? Do you always know where you are and what you're doing, do you always feel in control or like you're there but you are acting different than normally? (No, I'm not trying to diagnosis you into DID, just trying to find out where different people fall on the dissociation continuum, as I've heard it called.)

P.S. This isn't a closed discussion - anyone else care to respond to my original question (or anything else said along the way)?

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation

Posted by Craig on April 6, 1999, at 4:06:02

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Elaine on April 5, 1999, at 21:00:00


Elaine, it is more than just isolated instances of floating out of my body while driving. I basically live in a trance state, "parts" included. I'm missing a lot of years of memories since childhood. However, I have structured my life now in a way that is much less stressful than it was when I was working full-time while going to college. I think those were the years when things were most out of control. Yet, I also think that chronic major depression could account for some of my memory problems. (You know how people post-ECT complain that ECT destroyed their memory? I think their depression caused more damage than people realize. But, I've never had ECT.)

After several years without a doctor, I started seeing one for my depression around 1976-77. After awhile, he began telling me that I was dissociating (duh!), even though I never brought it up. I had my reasons why I didn't want him to know. The turning point came in March 1980, the day John Hinkley shot President Reagan. Apparently, I spent that night watching the assassination attempt over and over on TV. I went to work the next morning and, as I was later told, all I did was stare at my desk and repeatedly say, "No one should die on the street in the rain." Since I worked in a hospital, it didn't take long before I was transferred to the Crisis Center and admitted to the psych unit. I was so shattered that the doctors decided they would conduct a series of amytal interviews to find out what was going on. With a mega-dose of IV amytal coursing through me, I was in no position to fight them and they now possessed the keys that opened Pandora's box. They had no doubts about diagnosing me with MPD. I still feel like they stole this information from me; I didn't voluntarily give it to those doctors. I'm still angry that they put me in a room with a one-way mirror so that I'd be viewed as part of Grand Rounds. A room (and later an auditorium) packed with complete strangers learned more about my life than I knew. I'm a very private person and that still bothers me. Since I worked in another hospital, I didn't know whether I'd run into these people at some point and they'd be thinking, "Hey, that's the guy with multiple personalities."

For my reasons against hypnosis, I suggest you read the June 1998 online edition of Chicago Magazine at
http://www.chicagomag.com/chicagomag/text/table.htm and read the article titled Dangerous Therapy by
Cynthia Hanson beginning at http://www.chicagomag.com/chicagomag/text/features/therapy/0698a.htm

Pat's history and treatment bears little resemblance to mine, but this article gives an overview of how hers went tragically wrong. I know her because she and I were hospitalized at the same time and we still correspond via e-mail. (I had no idea about the "cult" aspect at the time I first met her and I'm thankful that I didn't know then or I really think I would have freaked out.) For an update on what's happening to Dr. Braun, I found info at http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v06/n10/bennett-braun.html that describes what the State of Illinois is trying to do in May 1999 regarding his medical license.


 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation

Posted by Elaine on April 7, 1999, at 0:33:01

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Craig on April 6, 1999, at 4:06:02

I appreciate you sharing your history, especially now that I know how you felt being on exhibition. Just one or two more questions: Do you remain functional in this trance state? Have you learned how to "control" the degree and timing at all? All right, three questions. Is there really nothing you feel can be done and so just live with it, and is "it" some recognized form of dissociation? (It probably doesn't matter to you, I know a diagnosis can be just a name.) OKAY, so I snuck in a fourth question.

Thanks for anything else you think needs to be answered. I wish you well. I feel very fortunate with my limited dissociation.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation

Posted by Craig on April 8, 1999, at 4:47:28

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Elaine on April 7, 1999, at 0:33:01

I got as far as 1980 in my last post, so I might as well attempt to bring this up to date to answer your questions, Elaine. From then until 1988 I was in therapy for multiple personality disorder that was intended to "integrate" me. Instead of improving my functioning, the fight over which one of "us" was going to reign began consuming my life. Previously, I had my life compartmentalized in a way that there was somewhat of an internal understanding about everyone's purpose in this system, but now things turned into chaos. My doctor gave me the old line about, "Sometimes you have to get worse before you get better" and, while I certainly got worse, I definitely didn't get any better. My anxiety level went sky high, I couldn't concentrate on my job or manage time. I began to work 12-14 hour shifts trying to accomplish what my co-workers were able to finish in an 8-hour day. At that point, my psychiatrist of 13 years decided to refer me out-of-state to Dr. Bennett Braun, who ran the Dissociative Disorders unit at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center in Chicago. The two months I spent hospitalized there were nothing short of terror. (If you'd like more description, I'll write about that another time.) Since I refused to be hypnotized or cooperate with what I considered to be his bizarre treatment methods, I was one of the few fortunate patients who got away from him. (Did you read the online article yet in Chicago Magazine that I cited in my last post?)

By the Fall of 1988, I'd had enough of psychiatry and therapy. After 17 years, including 12 psychiatric hospitalizations, I'd lost my faith in it all. I quit seeing doctors and basically dropped out of society. I've been living with my parents and am ashamed to say that I haven't been employed for 11 years now. However, if it's any consolation, neither have I been hospitalized during this period....which is an accomplishment for me. It's not the kind of life psychiatrist's recommend, but it's the best option I have. Getting this computer is about the best thing that's happened to me and has given me a chance to prove that I'm not incompetent. If I could figure out a way to work out of my home using a computer, I think that's my best shot at being employable again. I seem to function best when I'm alone here and don't have to worry about not meeting the expectations that people have of a typical 43-year-old. In my basement, nobody can see if I'm dissociated or not, so it hardly matters. Under these conditions, I can function in my trance state better. Since this obviously isn't an option for most dissociatives, I can't really recommend this kind of life to others. Have I failed or should I just accept that this is the best I can manage?

Early last year, I began descending into a deeper depression and had to admit that I couldn't cope with all this by myself anymore. When I got a referral to a highly recommended psychopharmacologist, I decided that this was my last chance to find an answer to that question before giving up. I wanted to rule out other causes contributing to my illness instead of seeing a psychiatrist who would just focus on the dissociative aspect. This new doctor feels strongly that I am bipolar and we've been trying a lot of new medications for that, the latest being Lamictal. If we ever find anything that has an effect on dissociation, I'll post it.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation

Posted by Elaine on April 8, 1999, at 7:54:30

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Craig on April 8, 1999, at 4:47:28

Craig: You seem to have made decisions that were right for you, rather than being a puppet of others. From your writings, you obviously still have a very good mind, trance state or not. I think your idea of working from home with your computer is great, and the fact that you are thinking about it means you are NOT accepting that this is the best you can manage, at least in terms of functioning. I am glad that you were able to recognize when you needed help again. With what you have been through in the past, I'm sure you are carefully evaluating what's going on. It's should certainly be easier to treat bipolar rather than dissociation, and I hope you find something that works. At least your depression is being addressed. I do find it interesting that therapists or doctors will usually diagnose bipolar and not go further to dissociative disorders; your experience was the opposite.

Your cognitive skills seem very high, Craig, and I sincerely hope you are able to find a way to use them in a setting that's right for you. I hope you don't feel that your history has been pried from you; I'm very interested in how others' experiences compare, hoping to find something that applies to me. I do appreciate your sharing here, Craig, and I do hope you post sometime and let me know how you are doing. I have found what a small world the message boards are: someone else I have exchanged messages with I find is not that far away geographically; with you, I can't believe we just happen to be the same age. Small fact but it's funny how these things come out. Go figure.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation; Craig

Posted by Nancy on April 8, 1999, at 11:47:29

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Craig on April 8, 1999, at 4:47:28

Not as advice, but rather, for my personal education on the matter...have you been on Seroquel(Quetiapine), since seeing the psychopharmachologist?
Thanks,
N

> I got as far as 1980 in my last post, so I might as well attempt to bring this up to date to answer your questions, Elaine. From then until 1988 I was in therapy for multiple personality disorder that was intended to "integrate" me. Instead of improving my functioning, the fight over which one of "us" was going to reign began consuming my life. Previously, I had my life compartmentalized in a way that there was somewhat of an internal understanding about everyone's purpose in this system, but now things turned into chaos. My doctor gave me the old line about, "Sometimes you have to get worse before you get better" and, while I certainly got worse, I definitely didn't get any better. My anxiety level went sky high, I couldn't concentrate on my job or manage time. I began to work 12-14 hour shifts trying to accomplish what my co-workers were able to finish in an 8-hour day. At that point, my psychiatrist of 13 years decided to refer me out-of-state to Dr. Bennett Braun, who ran the Dissociative Disorders unit at Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center in Chicago. The two months I spent hospitalized there were nothing short of terror. (If you'd like more description, I'll write about that another time.) Since I refused to be hypnotized or cooperate with what I considered to be his bizarre treatment methods, I was one of the few fortunate patients who got away from him. (Did you read the online article yet in Chicago Magazine that I cited in my last post?)
>
> By the Fall of 1988, I'd had enough of psychiatry and therapy. After 17 years, including 12 psychiatric hospitalizations, I'd lost my faith in it all. I quit seeing doctors and basically dropped out of society. I've been living with my parents and am ashamed to say that I haven't been employed for 11 years now. However, if it's any consolation, neither have I been hospitalized during this period....which is an accomplishment for me. It's not the kind of life psychiatrist's recommend, but it's the best option I have. Getting this computer is about the best thing that's happened to me and has given me a chance to prove that I'm not incompetent. If I could figure out a way to work out of my home using a computer, I think that's my best shot at being employable again. I seem to function best when I'm alone here and don't have to worry about not meeting the expectations that people have of a typical 43-year-old. In my basement, nobody can see if I'm dissociated or not, so it hardly matters. Under these conditions, I can function in my trance state better. Since this obviously isn't an option for most dissociatives, I can't really recommend this kind of life to others. Have I failed or should I just accept that this is the best I can manage?
>
> Early last year, I began descending into a deeper depression and had to admit that I couldn't cope with all this by myself anymore. When I got a referral to a highly recommended psychopharmacologist, I decided that this was my last chance to find an answer to that question before giving up. I wanted to rule out other causes contributing to my illness instead of seeing a psychiatrist who would just focus on the dissociative aspect. This new doctor feels strongly that I am bipolar and we've been trying a lot of new medications for that, the latest being Lamictal. If we ever find anything that has an effect on dissociation, I'll post it.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation; Nancy

Posted by Craig on April 9, 1999, at 3:22:22

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation; Craig, posted by Nancy on April 8, 1999, at 11:47:29

> Not as advice, but rather, for my personal education on the matter...have you been on Seroquel(Quetiapine), since seeing the psychopharmachologist?
> Thanks,
> N

No, I haven't been on that one. In the last year I've tried Depakote, Topamax, Gabitril, and Lamictal in combos with Effexor, Paxil, Risperdal, and Zyprexa During the 1980's, I was on lithium. I also take Synthroid for hypothyroidism. If you have any comments, I'd be interested in hearing them.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elaine (and Dr. Bob)

Posted by Craig on April 9, 1999, at 3:50:53

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Elaine on April 8, 1999, at 7:54:30

Elaine, I am touched by your kind words of support. I haven't shared my thoughts with anyone for so long that I wondered if I even could put them into words without sounding off- the- wall. I hope writing so much about my history didn't offend any readers. Once I got started, it became cathartic for me. I never would have had the guts to tell all this personal information to anyone who knows me, but there's something about being semi-anonymous on this bulletin board that gave me the courage to speak up.

Also, if Dr. Bob is lurking, I'd like to thank him for launching Psycho-Babble. His entire site has helped me in many ways.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig and Elaine

Posted by us on April 11, 1999, at 11:02:07

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elaine (and Dr. Bob), posted by Craig on April 9, 1999, at 3:50:53

> Elaine, I am touched by your kind words of support. I haven't shared my thoughts with anyone for so long that I wondered if I even could put them into words without sounding off- the- wall
thanks for addressing dissociation--I,too, worry that if someone knows my Dx, they will think I'm "crazy".
Craig-even reading this thread can cause me to dissociate-scary.
Elaine-my body is my "memory" and "communication system" - my body tells me that it has been 'sitting' or 'driving' or 'scared' or 'speechless'. That way I 'know' that another 'part' has been there. "Parts" seem more 'definite' during a therapy session than in real life; I think that is bec. they have to have a 'definitive' beginning and end in a "session" (ie the 'kid' can't leave therapy and drive home) It does seem that the "controlling part" never lets me get into too much trouble by some part showing up at a totally inapproipriate time---
can't believe I wrote this-scary-"us"

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - "us"

Posted by Elaine on April 11, 1999, at 14:54:26

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig and Elaine , posted by us on April 11, 1999, at 11:02:07

Us - I believe I saw you and Rabbit post here last month? I posted back to you but didn't see a response. Do you know that there is at least one message board for people with multiple personalities? I would encourage you to find www.healinghopes.org/msgboards/main/. They are very nice and supportive there, and they will understood how scary it is for you. I move around a bit because I'm not sure what diagnosis or diagnoses I fall in. There are other sites like that, too, I think. I know it's scary, but I'm glad you posted. What you said about being more definite in therapy because of a specific time limit being involved makes a lot of sense, especially if the controller or helper has enough influence to take charge. Thank you for saying that. And that your helper can keep you from getting into trouble. It's very comforting to know dissociation doesn't necessarily mean being totally out of control.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation

Posted by mary on April 14, 1999, at 19:45:43

In reply to Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by Elaine on April 3, 1999, at 20:58:44

Elaine, do you suffer from recurring depression, or
do you just "disassociate"? The reason I ask is bcuz
I have experienced EXACTLY what you described in your
original post- (I felt myself getting tense just
reading it.)God, it's horrible! I am bipolar and I
have found that whenever I start having those kinds
of spontaneous attacks it is an indicator that a
full blown depression could be right around the corner.
Klonopin really seems to work miraculously for me in
taking away the terror/dying feeling. How often do
you experience these feelings? -m.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - mary

Posted by Elaine on April 14, 1999, at 23:25:12

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation, posted by mary on April 14, 1999, at 19:45:43

I think you'll take it the right way when I say I'm so "glad" I found someone who shares what I do! It really does not happen often, obviously TOO often for me! I have a chronic low-grade depression that periodically blooms into a full blown depression. Interestingly enough, I also have a bipolar dx, although as I've posted elsewhere, if it is a correct dx, it is a very unusual form. (No mania, only anger as a "high", plus anxiety, if that counts.) There's an interesting theory on the horizon, though, if the dx is not totally coincidental. Do you suffer from general anxiety that you take Klonopin for, or is the Klonopin only for these attacks? (And does that mean they occur in spurts? Regularly?)

I can see and expand on your point - these episodes could come on not due to anything specific but as a harbinger of things to come because of changing body chemistry or whatever - whether it be depression, increased anxiety, or whatever. I really have never thought of it that way before. What do you think? Have you gotten any kind of professional explanation?

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig

Posted by Elizabeth on April 15, 1999, at 7:55:33

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elaine (and Dr. Bob), posted by Craig on April 9, 1999, at 3:50:53

(I just started reading this thread)

Craig, there is such a thing as "depersonalization disorder." It means that you have recurring depersonalization episodes (which sounds like what you're describing) without other dissociative symptoms (amnesia, changes in internally experienced identity state or observable "personality," etc.) or panic symptoms (depersonalization also happens to a lot of people during panic attacks). Some people find that the newer antipsychotic drugs (like Seroquel, the one Nancy asked about) or the anticonvulsants (which you've been trying) help with isolated depersonalization like this.

I have spontaneous panic attacks (I'm not usually feeling anxious beforehand and they aren't "triggered" by some external stimulus) so it seems reasonable enough to me that you could be having spontaneous depersonalization.

How long do the episodes last? Also, have you ever had an EEG (and if so, did it show anything)?

In the past (especially before 1980 or so) there weren't many diagnostic distinctions and a lot of things were lumped under "schizophrenia." By the '80s, I think people should have been aware of the risks of hypnosis and used it with more caution. I think I've heard that there are some people who are more "hypnotizable" and that those who dissociate are more likely to be so. (I don't know if this is true or not, it's just a rumor. :-) I've done hypnotherapy before, and it wasn't like being hypnotized in the sense I think you're talking about. It was more like guided imagery (a sort of relaxation exercise). I never lost time or volition or anything like that. I don't know if that's the same thing (no barbiturates!) and I am just not very hypnotizable, or if it's a different and presumably safer technique.

Hopefully people have learned from the mistakes of others by now. It's kind of you to share your experiences - it must be hard to talk about.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth

Posted by Craig on April 16, 1999, at 2:39:18

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig, posted by Elizabeth on April 15, 1999, at 7:55:33

I found a glossary describing various dissociative disorders at http://www.sidran.org/glossary.html#depdis that helps to compare and contrast depersonalization with Dissociative Identity Disorder. In my case, I met the diagnostic criteria for DID.

I asked my former psychiatrist how could it be possible to live in a trance-like state, since when I fall asleep the trance seemingly should be broken. He said that I've been dissociating for so many years (since age 4) that I automatically put myself back in trance as soon as I wake up. If I could tell you how I do it I would, but it's still a mystery to me.

I've had several EEGs and while I was told that they are "abnormal" the neurologist didn't specify this other than to say there was disorganization in part of my brain. They prescribed Mysoline on the chance that I might have complex partial seizures, but that medication had no effect on my dissociating and was eventually discontinued. In the distant past, psychiatrists wanted to believe that I was having psychotic episodes and put me on trials of Thorazine, Mellaril, Haldol and Trilafon - which were horrible and INCREASED dissociation. Recently, I've tried Risperdal and Zyprexa, which haven't been effective on it either.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've been there, done that and nothing has helped. I've had numerous doctors give up on me and the last time really left big scars. Maybe I was put on this earth to suffer....I don't know, but I'm out of answers. I've finally stopped beating my head against the proverbial wall and just learned to live with this the best I can. I used to wonder what I would have been like if I hadn't gotten this illness. At least I can't miss something I never had to begin with.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth

Posted by saintjames on April 16, 1999, at 8:25:06

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth, posted by Craig on April 16, 1999, at 2:39:18

>
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've been there, done that and nothing has helped. I've had numerous doctors give up on me and the last time really left big scars. Maybe I was put on this earth to suffer....I don't know, but I'm out of answers. I've finally stopped beating my head against the proverbial wall and just learned to live with this the best I can. I used to wonder what I would have been like if I hadn't gotten this illness. At least I can't miss something I never had to begin with.

James here....

Have you tried talk thearpy ? What if anything caused the DID, do you know ? If there were causing events in your life then usually it will take some time with a good counsler to work things out. Meds csn/sometimes help but unlike AD's don't get at the cause (if the cause is bad life events)

j

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth

Posted by saintjames on April 16, 1999, at 8:28:23

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth, posted by saintjames on April 16, 1999, at 8:25:06

> >
> > I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've been there, done that and nothing has helped. I've had numerous doctors give up on me and the last time really left big scars. Maybe I was put on this earth to suffer....I don't know, but I'm out of answers. I've finally stopped beating my head against the proverbial wall and just learned to live with this the best I can. I used to wonder what I would have been like if I hadn't gotten this illness. At least I can't miss something I never had to begin with.
>
> James here....
>
> Have you tried talk thearpy ? What if anything caused the DID, do you know ? If there were causing events in your life then usually it will take some time with a good counsler to work things out. Meds csn/sometimes help but unlike AD's don't get at the cause (if the cause is bad life events)
>
> j

James again....

Opps...and sorry you had to experience Dr. Bennett Braun ! I do feel that in the right hands
talk thearpy does work.
j

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elaine

Posted by mary on April 17, 1999, at 16:53:35

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - mary, posted by Elaine on April 14, 1999, at 23:25:12

hi Elaine,
I only experience the attacks/depersonalization when
I'm either in the midst of a depressive episode or on
the brink of having one. I don't experience general
anxiety, so I only use the klonopin when I need to.
For me, I see the depersonalization as a symptom of
bipolar disorder. I don't separate the two. If I start
"disconnecting" I know something is not right with me
and I need to figure it out before it takes over.
As for "professional explanations", I've been dealing
with this for over 10 years- my whole adult life,
(I was diagnosed/hospitalized at 17 and I'm 28 now),
and if there's one thing I've realized, it's that even
with great doctors that specialize in the field, there
comes a point where it's basically a crap shoot for
them. They can offer definitions, classifications- theory.
Don't get me wrong, I am not down on doctors. I
probably wouldn't be here if not for doctors. BUT,
ultimately, that which I truly KNOW about this illness
I have learned from my body. It took a long time
for me to get to this point where I trust what my body
is telling me over what a doctor or book is telling me.
In other words, I'm over trying to fit myself into
some bipolar box- what type, what sub-type, typical,
atypical, seasonal, major- WHATEVER. It's all bullsh*t
to me bcuz I NEVER fit exactly into any one box and then
I'd find myself obsessing over "what exactly am I?".
Wow, I didn't mean to go off like this- anyway...
I'll tell you where I'm at now. I take 800mg of
carbamazapine before bed. It works great for me.
Definitely better than lithium- and NO weight gain.
My biggest problem by far is dealing with the "anger"
you mentioned in your post- especially the week before
I get my period. I get like PSYCHOTIC pms now. My doctor
had me try a very mild dose of prozac (10mg. daily or
every other day) and it DID lessen it, but it
simultaneously aggravated some other things so I
decided to stop it. I'm still trying to figure this
one out. It seems to have really become intolerable
since I had a baby a year ago. Which reminds me- I
seem to be more prone to depersonalize during pms,
but since I am now aware of this, I don't freak out
about it bcuz I know that I'm not getting sick "for real".
I just take the K. if I need to and wait for it to pass.
I also had some scary times right after I had the baby
which for me is just more evidence of a hormonal
connection.
Anyway- didn't mean to talk your eyes off. Just got
on a roll. I don't know if any of this rambling can
help you in any way. I hope so.
-Mary

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elaine (p.s.)

Posted by mary on April 17, 1999, at 17:05:33

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - mary, posted by Elaine on April 14, 1999, at 23:25:12

me again.
I just noticed that there is another "mary" on the
board so from now on I'm going to sign on as "Mary P."
as to not confuse us.
-m.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig

Posted by Elizabeth on April 17, 1999, at 22:31:06

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth, posted by Craig on April 16, 1999, at 2:39:18

Hmm, I didn't get the impression from reading your posts that you actually had DID, but you certainly know better than I.

Was Mysoline the only anticonvulsant that you tried? Just because the first AED you tried didn't work, doesn't mean that it's not epilepsy. (I know that carbamazepine and a number of newer drugs have been pretty popular for treating this sort of seizure disorder). The abnormal EEG - and the fact that neuroleptics made it worse - really makes me wonder. It's too bad you don't know more specifics as to what was "abnormal" about it.

Just some thoughts - you do what you think is best, obviously.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Mary P.

Posted by Elizabeth on April 17, 1999, at 22:35:41

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elaine (p.s.), posted by mary on April 17, 1999, at 17:05:33

Mary, have you ever tried an antidepressant? The drugs that have been studied most extensively for premenstrual syndrome (late luteal phase disorder, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, etc.) are the SSRIs.

(I've also heard of some people being helped by estrogens.)

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth

Posted by Mary P. on April 18, 1999, at 15:49:27

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Mary P., posted by Elizabeth on April 17, 1999, at 22:35:41

hi Elizabeth,
Yes, I have tried SSRI's to help with the pms. I mentioned prozac in my
earlier post. I have also tried paxil. Both have helped to a certain
extent, but they also aggravated other things. The SSRI's enabled me
to function a lot easier and more productive during the pms phase, but
they pushed me too much during the non-pms time. SSRI's, in general,
are like playing with fire for me. They rev me up too much- even with
the most minescule of dosages. It's like they make me cross this line
between just feeling good and feeling good and not caring about anything
else. There are times when I have felt GREAT on prozac, but actually
behaved more horribly towards my husband bcuz I had lost all capacity to
feel for him. I think I'm going to have to look into the estrogen thing.
I don't remember ever going through this when I was on the pill bcuz it
evened everything out. I can't take birth control pills now bcuz of the
carbamazapine. Anyway, thanks for responding.
-m.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Mary P.

Posted by Elizabeth on April 19, 1999, at 0:23:09

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Elizabeth, posted by Mary P. on April 18, 1999, at 15:49:27

Tegretol will make the pill less effective (by inducing its metabolism), but that may just mean you'd need a higher dose of estrogen to achieve the same effect.

One thing I seem to recall having heard of is taking a very large dose of an SSRI at a certain point in the month. Might be worth asking your doctor about.

Also, there are psychopharmacologists who specialize in the treatment of women and who probably have quite a lot of experience in this area; it might be worthwhile to talk to your pdoc about a consultation with such a specialist.

Good luck with things.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig

Posted by Toby on April 26, 1999, at 13:07:08

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Mary P., posted by Elizabeth on April 19, 1999, at 0:23:09

Not to promote more meds if you have had it with them, but elsewhere on this site I read about Revia (naltrexone) being used for people who dissociate with good results. I have several people on it and it keeps them "together" nearly all the time now.

You said a new doctor has diagnosed you with Bipolar disorder recently. Do you think you are manic-depressive? What you said about "meeting criteria" for a diagnosis made me think of this. Bipolar disorder is the new "fad" diagnosis and it seems that many people are being "made" to fit this diagnosis the same way they were "made" to fit the MPD (DID) diagnosis. I would find it somewhat implausible that you could be bipolar with its intermittent and cyclical mood changes when what you described earlier seems to be a daily unchanging experience present since age 4.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig

Posted by Elizabeth on April 27, 1999, at 1:14:11

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig, posted by Toby on April 26, 1999, at 13:07:08

> Not to promote more meds if you have had it with them, but elsewhere on this site I read about Revia (naltrexone) being used for people who dissociate with good results. I have several people on it and it keeps them "together" nearly all the time now.

That's interesting. Any speculation as to the mechanism?

> You said a new doctor has diagnosed you with Bipolar disorder recently. Do you think you are manic-depressive? What you said about "meeting criteria" for a diagnosis made me think of this. Bipolar disorder is the new "fad" diagnosis and it seems that many people are being "made" to fit this diagnosis the same way they were "made" to fit the MPD (DID) diagnosis. I would find it somewhat implausible that you could be bipolar with its intermittent and cyclical mood changes when what you described earlier seems to be a daily unchanging experience present since age 4.

I agree with this...a number of other conditions (e.g., minor or atypical depression, dissociative disorders, borderline personality, etc.) are being "redefined" as "atypical bipolar disorder" - probably results in some wild goose chase treatments. Obviously I don't know your whole history, but what you describe certainly doesn't sound like manic-depression to me.

 

Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Toby

Posted by Craig on April 28, 1999, at 4:32:02

In reply to Re: Anxiety vs Dissociation - Craig, posted by Toby on April 26, 1999, at 13:07:08

My mood is typically depressed and irritable. Since being on Depakote, Gabitril, and now Lamictal, I am less irritable but am still depressed. About once a year, I suddenly shift into a hyper state which lasts around a month. I become euphoric and run around in fast motion, but don't get out of control the way I've observed manic-depressives behave. (I had a girlfriend who was bipolar and she used to wash windows at 2 AM!) I'd been seeing a psychopharmacologist for 5-6 months before he changed my diagnosis to bipolar from Major Depression, Recurrent. When I protested and told him I've never been manic, he gave me this incredulous look and said, "I've SEEN you manic." I'll admit that I become hypomanic, but he didn't say I was Bipolar II. Maybe it's just semantics. As much as I enjoy and look forward to that yearly fun-filled month, it always suddenly ends with a crash and I land in a deep depression.

When I was younger, my mood changes were more in terms of days, although sometimes only hours. Now that I'm in my 40's, I've levelled out. How this mixes in with dissociative episodes is more complicated to explain. I have an audiotape of me with a psychiatrist while I was "exceedingly hyper" in 1987 that I wish I could play for you so maybe you could unscramble it. After half an hour or so of me talking a mile a minute about some Rolex watch I intended to buy, describing all the electronic equipment and clothes I'd bought that week, and saying how great I felt, I switched. The next part of the tape is the 6-year-old crying despondently about ....whatever. The next week I went back to the psychiatrist to ask, "How is that possible that I'm revved up and happy while he is crying his eyes out? It's the same body. And how can he cry in an octave so high that I couldn't reach it if you kicked me?" The only answer I got was that, "He's a little boy and you're a grown man." I was looking for physiological explanations and all I ever got was psychological explanations.

You asked if I think I'm manic-depressive. Not really, but if the meds for that help me somehow, I'm willing to take them. If they don't work, then maybe that will indicate to my psychopharmacologist that I'm not bipolar. Rather than trying to fit neatly into some diagnosis, I'm willing to approach this backwards and try any meds to find something that might help. Maybe the drug that works will help define what I truly have. I'll ask him about naltrexone and see if he'll let me try it. Since my monthly appointments with him don't last more than 15 minutes, I'm able to keep it together enough that he doesn't see me dissociate. It's sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" approach. Judging by his reaction when he read all my psych records with the MPD dx, I can tell that he's in the camp that thinks MPD is hogwash. I've learned to nod politely because people only believe what they want to believe.


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