Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 4030

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Re: misbehavior

Posted by harry on April 10, 1999, at 16:57:05

In reply to misbehavior, posted by Dr. Bob on April 10, 1999, at 12:20:42

Well said v.

Doc...based on what you have posted here...i think what you may consider "mishaving" is actually "expression of self".

You may have have better said..
.."I will have to find a way to keep people .. from ...".. getting better.

One cannot shine a diamond with fancy velvet.
One uses a rough stone.
Interactions...ALL interactions..are experiences
of change, growth, development, and learning.

Life is NOT always "nice".

I stand by every word i posted.

Beware those that accept and condone evil for their own selfish puposes..as altrusitic at they may seem.


After over 13 years of Psychotic Depression...i am now...OFF all psych meds...lost 10 pounds in approx 10 days.
I think pretty straight. I have plans and hopes and dreams.
And i am never..and i mean NEVER EVER ..going back to where i was.

And i did NOT get here..by "behaving" as others would like....in fact..THAT IS PART OF WHY I GOT SICK.

Like everything..it is a long story..however..
If there is any one thing that assisted me..it was getting to the point...
inside..where i FINALLY said.."Oh yea?...well FYCK that..and FYCK you"

Which is EXACTLY the way anyone needs to be treated who is..literally..willing to see you DEAD..in order to maintain THEIR status quo.

Let he who has ears hear.

I will not be the only you hear this from.

Genuine caring involves deep EMOTION.
It is easy to be the "peacemaker" when the actions..AND the CONSEQUENCES..affect you little.


Take Care.


 

Re: Being considerate/MOVING ALONG

Posted by Nancy on April 10, 1999, at 17:02:57

In reply to Being considerate, posted by Muse on April 10, 1999, at 7:37:09

Can we all just get over this hump. I agree that we're all here in need of support. So, let's just get back to it. It was a learning experience like everything posted on this board. We can get through this. I also sent an email to Terry. I let her know; a) that she was important, too and b) not to leave us over an issue that can be resolved and c) that we are all struggling.

Thank you, to everyone for being here.
Nancy :) ;) :)


> I have been saddened by what I have read. I thought this was supposed to be a helpful, supportive site. While you may not agree with what Terry said, could you not use some maturity in communication? It seems you spouted off at the keyboard as easily as you might verbally - reacting emotionally without thinking about what you are saying. I certainly have been guilty of saying things I shouldn't in a tone and intensity I shouldn't - but, like Dr. Bob has said, message boards provide an opportunity to THINK before you "speak". Terry was clearly finding a niche at this site; I grieve that someone has been driven away by such rudeness. I believe you need to re-read (assuming you have read it to begin with) Dr. Bob's introduction to this message board. I hope for your sake you can find a way to express your disagreement on this board and in life in a less hurtful way. Since people on this board do have problems, I will allow that the way you have expressed your disagreement and dislike is a symptom of something you are currently being treated for, and will try not to be as harshly judgmental as I would like to be right now. I wish you well.

 

Re: Being considerate/I'm sorry, Harry

Posted by Nancy on April 10, 1999, at 17:13:54

In reply to Re: Being considerate, posted by harry on April 10, 1999, at 12:03:54

I'm so terrible sorry that people are taking sides about an issue that long ago should have been laid PEACEFULLY to rest. Harry, I am ashamed for those who have attcked you. It's been unfair to attack Harry, when obviously he has been deeply hurt by the comment(s) that triggered this issue. Perhaps, it would have been more intelligent AND compassionate for those attackers to invite Harry and all the rest of us to explore and discuss the feelings set into motion by the issue.

We're all in this together. So, let's stick together and support and help each other. Now, would be an excellent time to begin. Everyone is invited to be a part of this.

Nancy


> Thats all very intellectual and interesting.
> AND...getting REALLY angry at ANYONE who attempts to interfere with GENUINE efforts at recovery...with GENUINE expression of of what REAALLY matters to them (exercise, health, depression, etc)..is ESSENTIAL to leading a healthy life.
>
> Saying..."oooh..cutchy cutchy coo"...when someone steps on your toes..esp. ON PURPOSE...ESPECIALLY when you exerted IMMENSE effort to even the shoes they stpped on ON to get outside...is essential, integral an absolutely necessary..for you..AND for the person who thinks it's ok to interfere with you.
>
> I think a great deal about EVERYTHING i say and write and do, you ignoramus.
>
> I swear....i think a great title for a tome on recovering from this illness would be..."Oh yea?..well FYCK that and FYCK you".

 

Re: please help/ CALLING DR BOB YOU'RE NEEDED, NOW

Posted by Nancy on April 10, 1999, at 17:21:35

In reply to the real issue / please help, posted by v on April 10, 1999, at 12:30:32

Is there medication a pdoc can add to REVERSE the horrendous weight problems that have been PROVEN to have been induced by one's psychotropic meds? I say PROVEN, because I've been keeping a log of intake and exercise for many months. This log is accurate, since it's being kept by a long time bodybuilder who was 110Lbs at 10% body fat for many years.

Is there any known combination of meds that would keep the weight gain from occurring?
>
> are there any new meds on the horizon which do not cause weight gain?
>
> what can we do?????????????
>
> thank you
>
> v
AND Nancy

 

Re: misbehavior

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 0:56:27

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by harry on April 10, 1999, at 16:57:05

> Doc...based on what you have posted here...i think what you may consider "mishaving" is actually "expression of self".
>
> You may have have better said..
> .."I will have to find a way to keep people .. from ...".. getting better.
>
> One cannot shine a diamond with fancy velvet.
> One uses a rough stone.
> Interactions...ALL interactions..are experiences
> of change, growth, development, and learning.
>
> Life is NOT always "nice"...

I can understand your point of view. But my position would be that your expression of self doesn't promote the goals of this forum.

So I've tried to block you from posting.

If you think that interferes with your getting better, remember, life is not always nice and even this interaction may be an experience of change, growth, development, and learning.

Bob

 

Re:misbehavior / please answer us

Posted by v on April 11, 1999, at 5:26:30

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 0:56:27

i agree with nancy that harry should have the same rights to express himself here and am asking that you please not censor him from participating...

that said, i must also ask you to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE address the question of whether there is anything we can do about the weight gain...

obviously this is an extremely loaded issue and one which to some degree is destroying & crippling lives just as surely as the depression which preceded it...

what can we do? is there anything new being developed? are there combinations of meds we can consider taking?

v

> I can understand your point of view. But my position would be that your expression of self doesn't promote the goals of this forum.
>
> So I've tried to block you from posting.
>
> If you think that interferes with your getting better, remember, life is not always nice and even this interaction may be an experience of change, growth, development, and learning.
>
> Bob

 

MORE Re:misbehavior / please answer us

Posted by v on April 11, 1999, at 5:39:59

In reply to Re:misbehavior / please answer us, posted by v on April 11, 1999, at 5:26:30

perhaps i also need to say what i forgot to mention...

that this forum is a very powerful tool.. and while i don't condone name calling or personal attacks, i do appreciate the fact that many here stepped forward to contain any damage and correct any misunderstandings

i think that this opportunity to take care of ourselves is a very valuable one... as well as the opportunity to perceive what someone is trying to say, even when the language may suggest something else... obviously, we all communicate differently - my english can be as much a foreign language to someone else as any other...
it's good to have to sometimes see past ourselves and our fears in order to really hear someone else

and for this as well, i ask that you not block harry from posting

we all have so much to learn from one another

v


 

Re: misbehavior / mental disorder

Posted by Nancy on April 11, 1999, at 10:01:55

In reply to MORE Re:misbehavior / please answer us, posted by v on April 11, 1999, at 5:39:59

I agree with v. Furthermore, Harry has been supportive and helpful to me. Please, don't block him from this forum. His pain is very much a part of the disorder that he tries so hard to live with. I feel that he has been reaching out and aggressively seeking help from us.

I have rages when I'm manic. But, that is not who I am. I'm not "misbehaving" while I'm manic. I'm JUST MANIC. I practice methods that help. But, even with all my education, compassion, psychotherapy, medication, and so on, it is still the rapid onset acute mania that trips me up.

There are no signs that I'm approaching madness. No flags pop up in the mind to warn me of the impending neurocatastrophy. Boom...it's just there. Even when I'm insane, I KNOW I'm NOT insane. I'm certain that my perceptions are correct even if I question their validity. I ask myself if I'm manic. But, at the time, I'm certain and I know that I'm not. I do not misbehave...I'm severly manic depressive with psychotic features. I work very hard at managing this disorder.

But, I suppose all the aforementioned is why society used to have the mentally ill chained down in tiny rooms of asylums, perform brain surgery to stop a patient who misbehaved.

I've run into many who truly believe that mental illness is a behavioral problem. All of these people were in the psychiatric health profession.

What Dr Bob has called a behavioral problem in Harry is not a chronic condition. Harry hasn't been coming to this board intentionally to do harm. Can you say that you've read elsewhere on this board and found that Harry was doing harm? This is an isolated case. A single issue was raised to which Harry responded passionately.

Can any of you say that there is not one issue in your life to which you've had a passionate response. An issue for which you or others insisted that you needed counsel. Whether that counsel came from a friend, a doctor, or your mother, makes no difference. Did you find help for that personally disturbing issue? Did those to whom you turned for counsel, whether it be that you turned to them in anger or in tears, abandon you?

I'm not insinuating that Harry has had an acute breakthrough manic episode that may have been triggered either multifactorially or as a result of rapid cycling and high lability.

It was yesterday that I finally realized that Harry needed help on this issue.

I'm sorry, Harry, that you were chastised, attacked, and abandoned. It was wrong. It never should have happened in this day of enlightened treatment for mental illnesses. I wish that I had realized sooner that you needed help with this issue. I wish that others had realized it, too.

I hope that I'm not misbehaving...really...not meant to be a fascicious statement. Should I even be writing about all this...my ideas...my concern? Is this issue taboo?

Nancy


> perhaps i also need to say what i forgot to mention...
>
> that this forum is a very powerful tool.. and while i don't condone name calling or personal attacks, i do appreciate the fact that many here stepped forward to contain any damage and correct any misunderstandings
>
> i think that this opportunity to take care of ourselves is a very valuable one... as well as the opportunity to perceive what someone is trying to say, even when the language may suggest something else... obviously, we all communicate differently - my english can be as much a foreign language to someone else as any other...
> it's good to have to sometimes see past ourselves and our fears in order to really hear someone else
>
> and for this as well, i ask that you not block harry from posting
>
> we all have so much to learn from one another
>
> v

 

Re: CALLING DR BOB

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 10:52:49

In reply to Re: please help/ CALLING DR BOB YOU'RE NEEDED, NOW, posted by Nancy on April 10, 1999, at 17:21:35

> > are there any new meds on the horizon which do not cause weight gain?
> >
> > what can we do?????????????
>
> Is there medication a pdoc can add to REVERSE the horrendous weight problems that have been PROVEN to have been induced by one's psychotropic meds? ...
>
> Is there any known combination of meds that would keep the weight gain from occurring?

I'm sorry, but I don't have any great answer to the above. A lot of the angles have already been covered here. As I think someone mentioned before, you can check Psychopharmacology Tips under "Eating, appetite, and weight problems" (one of the subject categories). There's some information there.

Bob

 

Re: misbehavior

Posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 11:32:08

In reply to Re:misbehavior / please answer us, posted by v on April 11, 1999, at 5:26:30

> i agree with nancy that harry should have the same rights to express himself here and am asking that you please not censor him from participating...

He does have the same rights. But those rights are limited. And he went too far. If others go too far, it's the last thing I would want to do, but I would "censor" them, too.

A later post:

> this forum is a very powerful tool.. and while i don't condone name calling or personal attacks, i do appreciate the fact that many here stepped forward to contain any damage and correct any misunderstandings

Yes, and I think that's a wonderful thing about this forum, that people do take care of each other. But there's enough to help each other with already, I don't think we need name-calling, etc., added to that.

I consider it a priority that people feel safe here. Otherwise, it's not an atmosphere that's very conducive to support and education.

> we all have so much to learn from one another

We do. I meant it when I said before that I hope he finds this a learning experience.

And a post from Nancy:

> I agree with v. Furthermore, Harry has been supportive and helpful to me. Please, don't block him from this forum. His pain is very much a part of the disorder that he tries so hard to live with. I feel that he has been reaching out and aggressively seeking help from us.

I'm not saying he's never been helpful or didn't even in this case have good intentions or isn't in pain himself. But he was *too* "aggressive".

> I have rages when I'm manic. But, that is not who I am. I'm not "misbehaving" while I'm manic. I'm JUST MANIC.

I'm not sure I completely agree. Someone who's manic isn't necessarily *just* manic. They can also be manic *and* hurtful to others (or to themselves). I don't think it's always best just to let that go.

> I suppose all the aforementioned is why society used to have the mentally ill chained down in tiny rooms of asylums, perform brain surgery to stop a patient who misbehaved.

I suppose this is in fact on the same continuum as chaining someone down in a tiny room in an asylum, or performing brain surgery on them, but I hope it's not *quite* as bad...

> What Dr Bob has called a behavioral problem in Harry is not a chronic condition... Can you say that you've read elsewhere on this board and found that Harry was doing harm? This is an isolated case. A single issue was raised to which Harry responded passionately.

Well, I do think he went too far twice in this thread. I didn't do this after the first time. And I'm not saying I necessarily want to keep him blocked forever.

> Can any of you say that there is not one issue in your life to which you've had a passionate response. An issue for which you or others insisted that you needed counsel. Whether that counsel came from a friend, a doctor, or your mother, makes no difference. Did you find help for that personally disturbing issue? Did those to whom you turned for counsel, whether it be that you turned to them in anger or in tears, abandon you?

Whether someone you turn to abandons you can sometimes depend on the way in which you turn to them. Hopefully, that's the learning experience part of this.

> I hope that I'm not misbehaving...really...not meant to be a fascicious statement. Should I even be writing about all this...my ideas...my concern? Is this issue taboo?

Writing about ideas and concerns -- or about how I deal with things -- is not taboo. Being disrespecful of others is.

Bob

 

Re: misbehavior

Posted by Danielle on April 11, 1999, at 13:24:41

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 11:32:08

> > i agree with nancy that harry should have the same rights to express himself here and am asking that you please not censor him from participating...
>
> He does have the same rights. But those rights are limited. And he went too far. If others go too far, it's the last thing I would want to do, but I would "censor" them, too.
>
> A later post:
>
> > this forum is a very powerful tool.. and while i don't condone name calling or personal attacks, i do appreciate the fact that many here stepped forward to contain any damage and correct any misunderstandings
>
> Yes, and I think that's a wonderful thing about this forum, that people do take care of each other. But there's enough to help each other with already, I don't think we need name-calling, etc., added to that.
>
> I consider it a priority that people feel safe here. Otherwise, it's not an atmosphere that's very conducive to support and education.
>
> > we all have so much to learn from one another
>
> We do. I meant it when I said before that I hope he finds this a learning experience.
>
> And a post from Nancy:
>
> > I agree with v. Furthermore, Harry has been supportive and helpful to me. Please, don't block him from this forum. His pain is very much a part of the disorder that he tries so hard to live with. I feel that he has been reaching out and aggressively seeking help from us.
>
> I'm not saying he's never been helpful or didn't even in this case have good intentions or isn't in pain himself. But he was *too* "aggressive".
>
> > I have rages when I'm manic. But, that is not who I am. I'm not "misbehaving" while I'm manic. I'm JUST MANIC.
>
> I'm not sure I completely agree. Someone who's manic isn't necessarily *just* manic. They can also be manic *and* hurtful to others (or to themselves). I don't think it's always best just to let that go.
>
> > I suppose all the aforementioned is why society used to have the mentally ill chained down in tiny rooms of asylums, perform brain surgery to stop a patient who misbehaved.
>
> I suppose this is in fact on the same continuum as chaining someone down in a tiny room in an asylum, or performing brain surgery on them, but I hope it's not *quite* as bad...
>
> > What Dr Bob has called a behavioral problem in Harry is not a chronic condition... Can you say that you've read elsewhere on this board and found that Harry was doing harm? This is an isolated case. A single issue was raised to which Harry responded passionately.
>
> Well, I do think he went too far twice in this thread. I didn't do this after the first time. And I'm not saying I necessarily want to keep him blocked forever.
>
> > Can any of you say that there is not one issue in your life to which you've had a passionate response. An issue for which you or others insisted that you needed counsel. Whether that counsel came from a friend, a doctor, or your mother, makes no difference. Did you find help for that personally disturbing issue? Did those to whom you turned for counsel, whether it be that you turned to them in anger or in tears, abandon you?
>
> Whether someone you turn to abandons you can sometimes depend on the way in which you turn to them. Hopefully, that's the learning experience part of this.
>
> > I hope that I'm not misbehaving...really...not meant to be a fascicious statement. Should I even be writing about all this...my ideas...my concern? Is this issue taboo?
>
> Writing about ideas and concerns -- or about how I deal with things -- is not taboo. Being disrespecful of others is.
>
> Bob

Bob
I agree with what you are saying and I thank you for what you are trying to do. Verbal abuse can be devastating, as many of us have experienced and can testify. I have found Harry's verbage to be remarkably similar to the abuse I suffered as a child, particularly his rationalization of it. I was told by my mother that my father's defense of his abuse was that he wanted me to be strong. Guess what - it had the opposite effect. Harry's posts are intentionally abusive, it won't do any good to try to reason with him. Fortunately, I don't have to be his audience. If you are unable to block him out, I can choose not to read his posts. First-timers won't be so fortunate. There have been others whose postings have come right up to the line of misbehavior in this forum, Harry is the first one to leap across it and leer at us from the other side.

 

Re: misbehavior

Posted by Elaine on April 11, 1999, at 14:39:37

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by Danielle on April 11, 1999, at 13:24:41

Well put, Dr. Bob and Danielle. I almost put in my two cents but won't because it's already been said in other words. Your point about verbal abuse and especially your last sentence, Danielle, were well taken.

 

Re: misbehavior

Posted by Appalled on April 11, 1999, at 16:17:11

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by harry on April 10, 1999, at 16:57:05

May I remind you of some of your own postings? (I do believe they were yours...)

>"PRIMUM NON NOCERE"....(above all else..do no harm)

I believe you have done a lot of harm here.

>Being "brought to task" in regards to the effects of one's words and actions is an ESSENTIAL part of GROWING UP.

Nancy has been your staunch defender, and more power to her, but maybe she needs to realize that maybe you are being brought to task so maybe YOU can grow up?

>A great part of "recovery", eg:change and development as a person..is recognizing our OWN selfishness and self-centeredness..

Your proud expression of self, no matter how negative and hurtful, seems pretty selfish to me. I hope you did mean that once we recognize our self-centeredness that is just a starting point and not to be wallowed in.

>All to often..."support" means expressing kindly sweet remarks regardless of the context of anothers writing/actions.
>TRUE LOVE invloves DISCIPLINE.

I think "tough love" is the more appropriate phrase. But, remember, the word "love" is still part of the equation. Message boards do not always need to be fluffy and sweet. But, there is nothing wrong with kindness, you can say many meaningful things but still be kind. "Discipline" that takes the form of cruelty and abuse tend not to hit their mark; it is difficult to get the message if you're too busy pulling the dagger out. If this is the kind of discipline you have had and all you know, I am very sorry.

Now, it would be VERY interesting if you purposely posted like this to get us NOT to be sickeningly sweet and accepting! I think you succeeded!

I realize that you have your own baggage, Harry, and I hope you are getting whatever help you need. I hope somewhere along the way that you realize your arguments for why you should be able to say whatever you want, however you want, may not be productive to maintaining relationships.

 

Re: misbehavior

Posted by Cindy on April 11, 1999, at 20:10:55

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 0:56:27


I would just like to say thank you Doc for your wise decision. People often get very angry at the world at points during recovery but they too have to learn that feeling anger and venting it in such hostile ways using foul language is not appropriate or fair to those seeking support. You have my vote and thanks for your attempts to keeping this board respectful and decent.

> Doc...based on what you have posted here...i think what you may consider "mishaving" is actually "expression of self".
> >
> > You may have have better said..
> > .."I will have to find a way to keep people .. from ...".. getting better.
> >
> > One cannot shine a diamond with fancy velvet.
> > One uses a rough stone.
> > Interactions...ALL interactions..are experiences
> > of change, growth, development, and learning.
> >
> > Life is NOT always "nice"...
>
> I can understand your point of view. But my position would be that your expression of self doesn't promote the goals of this forum.
>
> So I've tried to block you from posting.
>
> If you think that interferes with your getting better, remember, life is not always nice and even this interaction may be an experience of change, growth, development, and learning.
>
> Bob

 

Re: misbehavior//thanks.....

Posted by Rain on April 11, 1999, at 23:01:32

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 0:56:27

> > Doc...based on what you have posted here...i think what you may consider "mishaving" is actually "expression of self".
> >
> > You may have have better said..
> > .."I will have to find a way to keep people .. from ...".. getting better.
> >
> > One cannot shine a diamond with fancy velvet.
> > One uses a rough stone.
> > Interactions...ALL interactions..are experiences
> > of change, growth, development, and learning.
> >
> > Life is NOT always "nice"...
>
> I can understand your point of view. But my position would be that your expression of self doesn't promote the goals of this forum.
>
> So I've tried to block you from posting.
>
> If you think that interferes with your getting better, remember, life is not always nice and even this interaction may be an experience of change, growth, development, and learning.
>
> Bob
Thank you Dr. Bob for trying to block Harry from posting..I know he is very ill, yet there are those of us who do not need anymore abuse, directly or indirectly. Rain

 

Re: misbehavior/ :)

Posted by Nancy on April 12, 1999, at 15:56:23

In reply to Re: misbehavior, posted by Dr. Bob on April 11, 1999, at 11:32:08

I think I'm starting to understand what's happening, Doc. Also, it's absolutely true that mania can be devastating and destructive to one's self and to the witnessing parties. It's sad but true. Sometimes I don't know that I'm ill until the damage has begun (another sad fact). Fortunately, I have a therapist and a bipolar support group that is professionally led. I attend appointments at both once a week.

One aspect about my coping and self-management work, is that I must take time to understand the complete picture of a situation. Maybe too long for some, but I have to be sure. I do so to make sure that I'm thinking rationally instead of thinking from my bipolar disorder. I have to be careful about my thoughts and reactions, because I'm highly labile and reactive. Although I try very hard, I still have my infamous "oops" moments.

I'm beginning to get a better understanding of what's going on. Anyway, I think I am...sometimes, I don't see things very clearly.

It isn't easy being me...you should try it sometime...hee hee hee. :) ;) :)
Nancy


> > i agree with nancy that harry should have the same rights to express himself here and am asking that you please not censor him from participating...
>
> He does have the same rights. But those rights are limited. And he went too far. If others go too far, it's the last thing I would want to do, but I would "censor" them, too.
>
> A later post:
>
> > this forum is a very powerful tool.. and while i don't condone name calling or personal attacks, i do appreciate the fact that many here stepped forward to contain any damage and correct any misunderstandings
>
> Yes, and I think that's a wonderful thing about this forum, that people do take care of each other. But there's enough to help each other with already, I don't think we need name-calling, etc., added to that.
>
> I consider it a priority that people feel safe here. Otherwise, it's not an atmosphere that's very conducive to support and education.
>
> > we all have so much to learn from one another
>
> We do. I meant it when I said before that I hope he finds this a learning experience.
>
> And a post from Nancy:
>
> > I agree with v. Furthermore, Harry has been supportive and helpful to me. Please, don't block him from this forum. His pain is very much a part of the disorder that he tries so hard to live with. I feel that he has been reaching out and aggressively seeking help from us.
>
> I'm not saying he's never been helpful or didn't even in this case have good intentions or isn't in pain himself. But he was *too* "aggressive".
>
> > I have rages when I'm manic. But, that is not who I am. I'm not "misbehaving" while I'm manic. I'm JUST MANIC.
>
> I'm not sure I completely agree. Someone who's manic isn't necessarily *just* manic. They can also be manic *and* hurtful to others (or to themselves). I don't think it's always best just to let that go.
>
> > I suppose all the aforementioned is why society used to have the mentally ill chained down in tiny rooms of asylums, perform brain surgery to stop a patient who misbehaved.
>
> I suppose this is in fact on the same continuum as chaining someone down in a tiny room in an asylum, or performing brain surgery on them, but I hope it's not *quite* as bad...
>
> > What Dr Bob has called a behavioral problem in Harry is not a chronic condition... Can you say that you've read elsewhere on this board and found that Harry was doing harm? This is an isolated case. A single issue was raised to which Harry responded passionately.
>
> Well, I do think he went too far twice in this thread. I didn't do this after the first time. And I'm not saying I necessarily want to keep him blocked forever.
>
> > Can any of you say that there is not one issue in your life to which you've had a passionate response. An issue for which you or others insisted that you needed counsel. Whether that counsel came from a friend, a doctor, or your mother, makes no difference. Did you find help for that personally disturbing issue? Did those to whom you turned for counsel, whether it be that you turned to them in anger or in tears, abandon you?
>
> Whether someone you turn to abandons you can sometimes depend on the way in which you turn to them. Hopefully, that's the learning experience part of this.
>
> > I hope that I'm not misbehaving...really...not meant to be a fascicious statement. Should I even be writing about all this...my ideas...my concern? Is this issue taboo?
>
> Writing about ideas and concerns -- or about how I deal with things -- is not taboo. Being disrespecful of others is.
>
> Bob

 

Re: misbehavior/ :)

Posted by Victoria on April 13, 1999, at 18:12:40

In reply to Re: misbehavior/ :), posted by Nancy on April 12, 1999, at 15:56:23

Nancy, Just wanted to say how impressed I am with the role you've tried to play in this mess, understanding all sides and mediating to the extent possible. Been reading your posts for several months now and what you've done here looks like awe-inspiring growth (if you don't mind my saying so). Congrats!

But p.s., I also agree with Dr. Bob that a certain civil level of communication has to a prerequisite for participating here--it's what distinguishes this site from so many that end up being dominated by ranters because everyone else finally gives up reading the mess.

 

Re: the real issue / please help

Posted by Gringo on April 14, 1999, at 5:03:49

In reply to the real issue / please help, posted by v on April 10, 1999, at 12:30:32

> how about we get back to the issue at hand... is there any known combination of meds that would keep the weight gain from occurring?
>
> are there any new meds on the horizon which do not cause weight gain?
>
> what can we do?????????????
>
> thank you
>
> v

Ask for psychedelic therapy...

All the best.

 

Re: the real issue / please help

Posted by mary on April 15, 1999, at 20:28:56

In reply to Re: the real issue / please help, posted by Gringo on April 14, 1999, at 5:03:49

i didn't understand that last comment. Was it for real or sarcasm.
Mary
> > how about we get back to the issue at hand... is there any known combination of meds that would keep the weight gain from occurring?
> >
> > are there any new meds on the horizon which do not cause weight gain?
> >
> > what can we do?????????????
> >
> > thank you
> >
> > v
>
> Ask for psychedelic therapy...
>
> All the best.

 

Re: celexa didn't work for me as well a prozac

Posted by Emily Silverman on April 21, 1999, at 10:40:46

In reply to celexa didn't work for me as well a prozac, posted by learn to forget on April 8, 1999, at 14:39:21

> I switched to celexa from prozac because of hand tremor that interferes with playing music. My hands stopped shaking by about 75%, but you know what, celexa just isn't as good against the terrible triangel of anger, fear and saddness.
> So now I'm back where I started: playing well or being well. I did learn one thing, however. I now know hell is not the absence of free-will is some burning pit, rather its having free will to choose between heinous options. >

Hello, Learn-To-Forget,
Thanks for your interesting post. Sorry you're feeling so dreadful. How is your playing going? What do you play, et cetera? I play the piano, and I experienced severe hand tremors as well. At the time, I plugged along, swallowing all of my pills religiously, because I was fresh from the hospital, and terrified of having to return. The muscular problems disappeared after three arduous months. Your words about hell caught my attention, being quite interested in hell myself. Before I became irredeemably ill, I subscribed religiously to John Milton's idea about Man's existence being what he made of it; a heaven or a hell. Since then, having had too many psychotic and catatonic periods, I have decided that in my own realm of experience hell is being conscious and alive (psychotic) or unconscious and dead (drugged) and that heaven or anything like it is very nearly unattainable. However, I also believe that anything that can be conceived of can also be attained, even if for only a moment, and I retain the perhaps juvenile idea that there is a magical alchemical substance in the universe that will give me the lucid, untortured, calm consciousness with which I was born. Oh dear, how depressing...and I only wanted to say something to maybe make you feel better!

 

Re: the real issue / please help

Posted by Gringo on April 22, 1999, at 5:34:48

In reply to Re: the real issue / please help, posted by mary on April 15, 1999, at 20:28:56

> i didn't understand that last comment. Was it for real or sarcasm.
> Mary

Ask for psychedelic therapy...

> > All the best.

Sorry for that, I realized that it could sound like that later. But I've meant it seriously. A man asking for new meds which do not cause weight gain is a brilliant example of how diseases and disorders are understood in western society. I do not want to cause some 'strong word fights' here as words really cannot bring people together, at least not now. Shortly: mental disorders in most cases can be understood not as a serious illness which needs to be treated by meds but, the other way around, as an attempt of a human organism to heal itself. By getting ill it's trying to get well, as this is mostly about 'cleaning process'. For many reasons we think the worse the symptoms are the worse the illness is, but it's the worse the symptoms are the closer to the solution the process is, of course, not in every case. By relying on meds and shallow psychotherapy we only do suppress the whole process and then if the meds 'kick in' we're satysfied because at least we can function in life, though quite miserably. And more, meds have got lots of side effects, like weight gain, for example. I think you should be fully aware now that western pharmacological industry and shallow psychothepray are dead end street. We all posses a deep inner healing mechanism within us, it's necessary not to suppress it but to use it. I know how many of you would react now: "Hey man, you cannot even imagine how desperatly I feel... and these meds keep me at least going on...". I can imagine that, especially after I've read many threads here now and before. I know it's difficlut to function in society under such conditions, but what this socity really needs are centers for helping people like you, where you'd be guided to work through this process. But that involves interest and will, to go deep within and to face sometimes really nasty things. Psychedelics, though some of you already said these are dangerous drugs (which is ridiculous to say) because of the lack of information, bears the greatest potential to put you on 'revealing journey to yourselves'. There are non-drug techiques but psychedelics have the greatest potential. Attention: I am speaking of guided psychedelic therapy not dropping some psychedelic substance right now on your own! I've written this 'Ask for psychedelic therapy' because it's you who must ask for it and, as was said here before, to question your authorities. There's too many influencies and interests of too many parties in this pharmacological industry, therefore, there's a strong need to maintain 'status quo' which is good only for the whole industry projecting a $10 billion market in '90s and for those who need to ask yet for more money for research of 'where in the heck does that depression comes from?' reasons which involves digging in brains and developing more theories of brain's chemical imbalance. We need a new understanding of psychological illnesses, which is arising, but will be not accepted as long as you 'love' your meds. That's why I said it and in no way I meant it like a sarcasm. We need more info, because information rule these days, the more you know the less you can be mislead.

Wish all the best and don't let go, help is on the way (when it arrives depends mostly on you - customers)

Gringo

 

Re: celexa didn't work for me as well a prozac

Posted by Gringo on April 22, 1999, at 5:48:32

In reply to Re: celexa didn't work for me as well a prozac, posted by Emily Silverman on April 21, 1999, at 10:40:46

> > I switched to celexa from prozac because of hand tremor that interferes with playing music. My hands stopped shaking by about 75%, but you know what, celexa just isn't as good against the terrible triangel of anger, fear and saddness.
> > So now I'm back where I started: playing well or being well. I did learn one thing, however. I now know hell is not the absence of free-will is some burning pit, rather its having free will to choose between heinous options. >
>
> Hello, Learn-To-Forget,
> Thanks for your interesting post. Sorry you're feeling so dreadful. How is your playing going? What do you play, et cetera? I play the piano, and I experienced severe hand tremors as well. At the time, I plugged along, swallowing all of my pills religiously, because I was fresh from the hospital, and terrified of having to return. The muscular problems disappeared after three arduous months. Your words about hell caught my attention, being quite interested in hell myself. Before I became irredeemably ill, I subscribed religiously to John Milton's idea about Man's existence being what he made of it; a heaven or a hell. Since then, having had too many psychotic and catatonic periods, I have decided that in my own realm of experience hell is being conscious and alive (psychotic) or unconscious and dead (drugged) and that heaven or anything like it is very nearly unattainable. However, I also believe that anything that can be conceived of can also be attained, even if for only a moment

brilliant!

, and I retain the perhaps juvenile idea that there is a magical alchemical substance in the universe that will give me the lucid, untortured, calm consciousness with which I was born.

hell present in your consciousness mostly represents the emerging of memories of one of the hard stages of birth stored in your unconsciousness, heaven represents stored memory of intra uterinal blessed existence and as you said this all is pretty attainable. There are several ways how to reveal those memories and to get rid of their influence.

Now I am really curious what happens next....

All the best,

Gringo

 

Re: IS ANYBODY LISTENING?

Posted by Betsy on April 23, 1999, at 13:51:39

In reply to Re: IS ANYBODY LISTENING?, posted by v on April 6, 1999, at 20:43:38

> that said, is there anyone who hasn't gained weight on their meds?
> specifically effexor since that is what i'm taking...
> i haven't experienced weight gain on it but having been overweight when i began (as a direct result of my depression), i seem to be having alot of trouble getting the weight off despite feeling better - which is unusual for me

I've been on prozac for 10 years. Yes, I said 10.
I didn't really gain much weight, and what weight
I did gain was more because I had an appetite again.
(I had a debilitating depression where I couldn't even
get up the energy to eat!)

Now... ask me about quitting smoking and you'll
get a different story. Quit 3 years ago - gained 50 lbs.
:^p

But let me tell you something I've learned.

Its not your weight that makes you attractive or
not attractive. Its your ATTITUDE.

I may be overweight now, but I FEEL good. And the
days I'm feeling REALLY good people notice and
tell me how good I *look*

From http://www.the-body-shop.com/products:

The word 'beauty' is old-fashioned. Somehow, something that everybody
possesses has become an unattainable goal, an ideal beyond most of us. But
isn't beauty a combination of humour, passion, activism, imagination,
energy, vitality and curiosity? It certainly has little to do with the arrangement
of your physical features. Seeing beauty as personal, individual and holistic,
allowing everyone to appreciate themselves for who they really are, we begin to
feel better about ourselves. And feeling good is looking good.


BELIEVE it - you'll see the difference!

Betsy

 

Re: IS ANYBODY LISTENING? yeh!

Posted by katie on April 23, 1999, at 16:06:40

In reply to Re: IS ANYBODY LISTENING?, posted by Betsy on April 23, 1999, at 13:51:39

> > that said, is there anyone who hasn't gained weight on their meds?
> > specifically effexor since that is what i'm taking...
> > i haven't experienced weight gain on it but having been overweight when i began (as a direct result of my depression), i seem to be having alot of trouble getting the weight off despite feeling better - which is unusual for me
>
> I've been on prozac for 10 years. Yes, I said 10.
> I didn't really gain much weight, and what weight
> I did gain was more because I had an appetite again.
> (I had a debilitating depression where I couldn't even
> get up the energy to eat!)
>
> Now... ask me about quitting smoking and you'll
> get a different story. Quit 3 years ago - gained 50 lbs.
> :^p
>
> But let me tell you something I've learned.
>
> Its not your weight that makes you attractive or
> not attractive. Its your ATTITUDE.
>
> I may be overweight now, but I FEEL good. And the
> days I'm feeling REALLY good people notice and
> tell me how good I *look*
>
> From http://www.the-body-shop.com/products:
>
> The word 'beauty' is old-fashioned. Somehow, something that everybody
> possesses has become an unattainable goal, an ideal beyond most of us. But
> isn't beauty a combination of humour, passion, activism, imagination,
> energy, vitality and curiosity? It certainly has little to do with the arrangement
> of your physical features. Seeing beauty as personal, individual and holistic,
> allowing everyone to appreciate themselves for who they really are, we begin to
> feel better about ourselves. And feeling good is looking good.
>
>
> BELIEVE it - you'll see the difference!
>
> Betsy

I feel better already!!!

 

Re: Heaven & Hell

Posted by Emily Silverman on April 24, 1999, at 20:03:07

In reply to Re: celexa didn't work for me as well a prozac, posted by Gringo on April 22, 1999, at 5:48:32

> hell present in your consciousness mostly represents the emerging of memories of one of the hard stages of birth stored in your unconsciousness, heaven represents stored memory of intra uterinal blessed existence and as you said this all is pretty attainable. There are several ways how to reveal those memories and to get rid of their influence.
>
> Now I am really curious what happens next....
>
> All the best,
>
> Gringo

Gringo, I'm psyched that someone responded to my post so intriguingly...
I'm simply dying to be able to remember what was while I waited to be born. There is no way to know and nobody to tell me, except by my own memory. I was an adopted child, and immediately after I was born, I was separated from my first mother forever. If only I could remember what her voice sounded like, and my father's as well, for surely I heard them from the womb. Please tell me, dear Gringo, how to reveal these memories, even should they force me to 'Learn To Forget'; for then I should know the truth, which I fancy would have a sort of Heaven-like beauty all it's own...

Emily


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