Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 3208

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by shelley on February 24, 1999, at 20:16:33

What is this? What does it mean? The doc said meds don't help. Any ideas or information is greatly appreciated!! Sleepless as usual, Shell

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by pej on February 24, 1999, at 22:16:36

In reply to Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by shelley on February 24, 1999, at 20:16:33

Hi Shell...go here
http://www.geocities.com/Hot Springs/1123/dsps.html
Lots of info....bye now Phil


> What is this? What does it mean? The doc said meds don't help. Any ideas or information is greatly appreciated!! Sleepless as usual, Shell

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by Elizabeth on February 25, 1999, at 18:23:27

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by pej on February 24, 1999, at 22:16:36

> Hi Shell...go here
> http://www.geocities.com/Hot Springs/1123/dsps.html
> Lots of info....bye now Phil

Phil, thanks for the link; interesting site.

Sounds sort of like the reverse of my problem (well, one of my problems, anyway): I can get to sleep if I try to (pretty good at relaxing if I can focus on it), but I can only stay asleep for a little while (an hour or two without hypnotics - Ambien buys me another couple hours). Seems to me that DSPS should be treatable with short-term hypnotics + behavior therapy.

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by Sean on February 25, 1999, at 18:58:30

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by Elizabeth on February 25, 1999, at 18:23:27

> > Hi Shell...go here
> > http://www.geocities.com/Hot Springs/1123/dsps.html
> > Lots of info....bye now Phil
>
> Phil, thanks for the link; interesting site.
>
> Sounds sort of like the reverse of my problem (well, one of my problems, anyway): I can get to sleep if I try to (pretty good at relaxing if I can focus on it), but I can only stay asleep for a little while (an hour or two without hypnotics - Ambien buys me another couple hours). Seems to me that DSPS should be treatable with short-term hypnotics + behavior therapy.

Over the years I have noticed that my sleep phase
advances out of sync with the rest of the world,
and to a large degree, predicts my mood states.
Each night I fall asleep at a later time, so at some
point, my brain thinks it is the middle of the
night and yet I am awake (kind of). My experience
with AD's is that they initially work to re-set
my clock and I wake up early. If I take them too
long, I eventually wake up after about two hours
of sleep in a hypomanic state. While this is great
fun compared to depression, I don't get anything
productive done due to scattered thinking and I
have to stop. The longest I seem to be able to
have a stable sleep/mood pattern is about 4 days.
The cycle takes about 5 weeks to revolve and I go
from great joy to suicidal thoughts during this
time. It sucks, and yet it is all I know. Sleep
is a key player in all of this somehow. I wish I
was a person who could sleep 8 hours a night and
wake up refreshed, energetic, and have balanced
moods.

Can anybody relate? Any sugggestions?

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by shelley on February 28, 1999, at 18:41:38

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by Sean on February 25, 1999, at 18:58:30

> > > Hi Shell...go here
> > > http://www.geocities.com/Hot Springs/1123/dsps.html
> > > Lots of info....bye now Phil
> >
> > Phil, thanks for the link; interesting site.
> >
> > Sounds sort of like the reverse of my problem (well, one of my problems, anyway): I can get to sleep if I try to (pretty good at relaxing if I can focus on it), but I can only stay asleep for a little while (an hour or two without hypnotics - Ambien buys me another couple hours). Seems to me that DSPS should be treatable with short-term hypnotics + behavior therapy.
>
> Over the years I have noticed that my sleep phase
> advances out of sync with the rest of the world,
> and to a large degree, predicts my mood states.
> Each night I fall asleep at a later time, so at some
> point, my brain thinks it is the middle of the
> night and yet I am awake (kind of). My experience
> with AD's is that they initially work to re-set
> my clock and I wake up early. If I take them too
> long, I eventually wake up after about two hours
> of sleep in a hypomanic state. While this is great
> fun compared to depression, I don't get anything
> productive done due to scattered thinking and I
> have to stop. The longest I seem to be able to
> have a stable sleep/mood pattern is about 4 days.
> The cycle takes about 5 weeks to revolve and I go
> from great joy to suicidal thoughts during this
> time. It sucks, and yet it is all I know. Sleep
> is a key player in all of this somehow. I wish I
> was a person who could sleep 8 hours a night and
> wake up refreshed, energetic, and have balanced
> moods.
>
> Can anybody relate? Any sugggestions?

Thanks Sean for the personal experiences. I wonder. I have had so much trouble with ADs and wasted so much money on them trying to "reset my clock". I wonder if they really ever help at all, or just set me up for the hypomania/depression cycle, a problem I'm currently not having, tho' I never know when I wil sleep. I will mention this to my dr. when I see her next. It's been six months since I took an AD and seem to have finally stopped cycling to any disruptive degree. Hmm. Thanks, Shell

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by Chris A. on March 2, 1999, at 14:54:06

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by shelley on February 28, 1999, at 18:41:38

Using my light box (10,000 lux) for thirty minutes the first thing in the morning seems to help reset my circadian rhythm. This is mentioned in the Oct. '98 issue of the "Archives of General Psychiatry." It suppresses melatonin production.

Checxk with your doc first, especially if there is any mood instability or Bipolar.

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by shelley on March 2, 1999, at 19:16:44

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by Chris A. on March 2, 1999, at 14:54:06

> Using my light box (10,000 lux) for thirty minutes the first thing in the morning seems to help reset my circadian rhythm. This is mentioned in the Oct. '98 issue of the "Archives of General Psychiatry." It suppresses melatonin production.
>
> Checxk with your doc first, especially if there is any mood instability or Bipolar.

Thanks Chris!! That's what my doc wants to do, but says it won't help until I am completely detoxed from the sleep meds I got attached to by my former doc. It takes time. I wondered if the light box idea really worked. Thanks again, Shell

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by Pat on March 6, 1999, at 8:48:24

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by shelley on March 2, 1999, at 19:16:44

> > Using my light box (10,000 lux) for thirty minutes the first thing in the morning seems to help reset my circadian rhythm. This is mentioned in the Oct. '98 issue of the "Archives of General Psychiatry." It suppresses melatonin production.
> >
> > Checxk with your doc first, especially if there is any mood instability or Bipolar.
>
> Thanks Chris!! That's what my doc wants to do, but says it won't help until I am completely detoxed from the sleep meds I got attached to by my former doc. It takes time. I wondered if the light box idea really worked. Thanks again, Shell

Shelly - I was on triavil for sleep problems for about six years. When the doctor wanted me to go off it, I had terrible insomnia like I had never had before - even before all meds. He put me on ativan just to get over withdrawal from triavil and while we tried to find an ad that would work for my sleep problems. We never did find an ad I could tolerate, and I got sick of trying. So for the last week, I stopped taking all meds, including ativan. Of couse, now I can't sleep at all. Is that what you're experiencing? Is this terrible insomnia the result of going off antianxiety drugs for sleep? Do you know how long it will last, if that is what it is? My brain just won't shut off, no matter how drowsy I am. I'm not even thinking about problems, etc. Just laying there aware and empty.

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by shelley on March 6, 1999, at 23:16:58

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by Pat on March 6, 1999, at 8:48:24


> Shelly - I was on triavil for sleep problems for about six years. When the doctor wanted me to go off it, I had terrible insomnia like I had never had before - even before all meds. He put me on ativan just to get over withdrawal from triavil and while we tried to find an ad that would work for my sleep problems. We never did find an ad I could tolerate, and I got sick of trying. So for the last week, I stopped taking all meds, including ativan. Of couse, now I can't sleep at all. Is that what you're experiencing? Is this terrible insomnia the result of going off antianxiety drugs for sleep? Do you know how long it will last, if that is what it is? My brain just won't shut off, no matter how drowsy I am. I'm not even thinking about problems, etc. Just laying there aware and empty.

Pat - The insomnia is insane. I sleep 3 - 4 nights out of the week. Every night is a crap shoot....will I sleep or just "rest" all night. I hate getting up for school and driving downtown for classes on only one hour of sleep. The withdrawal steps down seem to last a week before my body settles down. I talked to my doc a few days ago because I was going "nuts". She said "hang in there," and that we will discuss in-patient withdrawing next week in person, to see if this would be easier. I have been told not to expect to ever sleep well, and to get used to living with what energy I've got. I'm in the midst of this one and at a loss for ideas, just following dr.'s orders and keeping a ready supply of klonopin on hand as needed. I'm tapering my sleep meds, but not the knonopin yet. May never. Just laying there aware and empty, I'm with ya! -SHell

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by Pat on March 7, 1999, at 6:37:22

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by shelley on March 6, 1999, at 23:16:58

>
> Shelly- Why do they say you may never sleep well? It is because you've been on sleep meds so long, or what? What have you tried for sleep? Are you going to be trying other drugs?

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by shelley on March 8, 1999, at 20:11:29

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by Pat on March 7, 1999, at 6:37:22

> >
> > Shelly- Why do they say you may never sleep well? It is because you've been on sleep meds so long, or what? What have you tried for sleep? Are you going to be trying other drugs?

The dr. I saw said I would slepp "well" if I worked at night, but as things are, I am a single Mom to a young one, who I have to get up with every morning. Basically, he said I would have to learn to live around my sleep pattern rather than trying to make my sleep pattern fit my current schedule. I'm not sure he's right, as I've slept soundly the past five nights with no trouble at all. Sleep is so elusive. I will never give up trying to be "healthy". But, where to next, what meds I might try....I'm not sure they've been invented yet. Meanwhile, I'm getting off the meds that have made me sick. I have not done well with Halcion and Ambien (bad amnesiac effects and withdrawal problems), but have done well with Restoril (in exceptionally high doses, not recommended for anyone). Either way, I'm hanging in there listening to other's experiences and hoping mine will be helpful to someone as well. - Shell

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by Toni on March 28, 1999, at 8:23:33

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by pej on February 24, 1999, at 22:16:36

> Hi Shell...go here
> http://www.geocities.com/Hot Springs/1123/dsps.html
> Lots of info....bye now Phil
>
>
> > What is this? What does it mean? The doc said meds don't help. Any ideas or information is greatly appreciated!! Sleepless as usual, Shell

Thanks for posting that site! At least now I know I'm not the only one with this problem.

I guess you could say I was born with a sleep disorder, my mother told me they had to put some type of medication in my baby bottle to get me to sleep. My normal sleep pattern seems to be 5-7am go to bed and sleep till 10 or 11am. Usually not sleeping more than 5 hours and often only 4. It has been this way most of my life (which made it real interesting when I was in school). At a 40+ I have been able to set my own schedual for quite a number of years now. Being self-employed and working from home don't hurt either. But there were times when this wasn't the case and it was really miserable.

Everytime I tried to change this pattern to a more "normal" one I met with failure. Sleeping pills just made it worse, instead of becoming more functional as the day wore on I was just groggy all day. Self-hypnosis didn't work, neither did hot baths, warm milk, boring books, environmental sounds, or standing on my head. In fact a doctor even tried an rx for cigarettes when I was 9 (which lead to a pack a day habit for 28 years thank you very much! [but I quit several years ago]) The best I could do was just to let people know not to ask me anything important till after 11am.

It some ways I like the way I am, I get alot done in the middle of the night, no long lines at the supermarket, I have the tv remote all to myself, I've read more books than a good many libraries have, and I can do my gardening without getting a sunburn! ( I just wish my sons and grandkids weren't such morning people.)


Also does anyone know if those with DSPS are more prone to other sleep disorders? I have had one severe bout is true insomnia where I could not get to sleep at all or for not more than 15 minutes that lasted over 3 months. This was many yeard ago and lead to suicidal thoughts. I finally resorted to sleeping pills for about 2 weeks and that worked for that problem. I have also had a few narcoleptic symtoms at times. The doctor called it Sudden Urge to Sleep. This almost always happened in the late afternoon and only if I was not doing anything. It was very frightening, my husband would try to wake me,and I could hear him but could not move or speak. Fortunatly that has not happened in several years.

Toni
toni@pacbell.net

 

Re: Delayed Sleep Phase

Posted by JLM on July 30, 2003, at 3:18:08

In reply to Re: Delayed Sleep Phase, posted by Chris A. on March 2, 1999, at 14:54:06

> Using my light box (10,000 lux) for thirty minutes the first thing in the morning seems to help reset my circadian rhythm. This is mentioned in the Oct. '98 issue of the "Archives of General Psychiatry." It suppresses melatonin production.
>
> Checxk with your doc first, especially if there is any mood instability or Bipolar.

Chris,

When you are out of phase, what is your sleep schedule like? Currently I can't get asleep until about 6am and sleep until about 2pm. Should I try bright light at 2pm when I get up?

Could you give me a more detail explanation on what you did, how you timed the light exposure, and what your sleep schedule was like before treatment?

I'd really appreciate it :)


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