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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jim on October 13, 1998, at 15:52:44
I am a 51 year old male who has been taking benzodiazepines for nearly 20 years for anxiety and panic disorder (from which my father also suffered). The benzodiazepines are the only medications that I have ever found to give me relief from anxiety/panic.
Over the last 10 years, I have also been diagnosed with major depression and have also been prescribed various antidepressants by multiple psychiatrists.
My experience with the antidepressants has been:
Wellbutrin - helped with depression, aggravated anxiety.
Prozac, Paxil, Effexor - helped with depression, shut me down sexually - and other nasty side effects.I am currently NOT taking any antidepressant but take 1mg of Lorazepam/Ativan 3X a day for anxiety/panic.
I recently switched doctors and my current doctor wants to put me on Paxil and wean me off the benzodiazepines. (Every doctor that I visit gives me dirty looks when they find out that I take benzodiazapines, and, I nearly have to get down on my knees and beg for a prescription)!
My current doctor wants to start me on Paxil, again. Been there, done that! The side effect of shutting one down sexually is terrible, especially since I am finally in a decent relationship. Therefore, I plan on asking him if he would consider prescribing Serzone instead. I've read that Serzone has a lower incidence of this particular side effect.
Guess I have a couple of questions:
1. I have seen lots of positive comments about Serzone and Remeron in the Internet Newsgroups. Is this worth a try - rather than try to live again with the terrible side effects of Paxil?
2. Should I continue to feel like a drug addict because I take benzodiazepines? Seems to me that this is medication that controls my condition quite nicely - but - the medical community wants to keep taking it away from me. I'm not even sure that I can continue to get any more prescriptions!
3. Can Paxil or Serzone effectively treat both the Anxiety and Depression? I have read the drug inserts and Paxil seems to be the only antidepressant that is officially indicated for Panic Disorder as well as depression and OCD.
My life situation is such that depression symptoms are at a minimum and probably could do just fine on benzodiazepines alone - except - the doctors don't want to prescribe them and constantly try to switch me to antidepressants.
Your opinions and help are greatly appreciated.
Jim
Posted by Karen on October 14, 1998, at 10:03:00
In reply to Antidepressants and benzodiazipines, posted by Jim on October 13, 1998, at 15:52:44
> I am a 51 year old male who has been taking benzodiazepines for nearly 20 years for anxiety and panic disorder (from which my father also suffered). The benzodiazepines are the only medications that I have ever found to give me relief from anxiety/panic.
> Over the last 10 years, I have also been diagnosed with major depression and have also been prescribed various antidepressants by multiple psychiatrists.
> My experience with the antidepressants has been:
> Wellbutrin - helped with depression, aggravated anxiety.
> Prozac, Paxil, Effexor - helped with depression, shut me down sexually - and other nasty side effects.
> I am currently NOT taking any antidepressant but take 1mg of Lorazepam/Ativan 3X a day for anxiety/panic.
> I recently switched doctors and my current doctor wants to put me on Paxil and wean me off the benzodiazepines. (Every doctor that I visit gives me dirty looks when they find out that I take benzodiazapines, and, I nearly have to get down on my knees and beg for a prescription)!
> My current doctor wants to start me on Paxil, again. Been there, done that! The side effect of shutting one down sexually is terrible, especially since I am finally in a decent relationship. Therefore, I plan on asking him if he would consider prescribing Serzone instead. I've read that Serzone has a lower incidence of this particular side effect.
> Guess I have a couple of questions:
> 1. I have seen lots of positive comments about Serzone and Remeron in the Internet Newsgroups. Is this worth a try - rather than try to live again with the terrible side effects of Paxil?
> 2. Should I continue to feel like a drug addict because I take benzodiazepines? Seems to me that this is medication that controls my condition quite nicely - but - the medical community wants to keep taking it away from me. I'm not even sure that I can continue to get any more prescriptions!
> 3. Can Paxil or Serzone effectively treat both the Anxiety and Depression? I have read the drug inserts and Paxil seems to be the only antidepressant that is officially indicated for Panic Disorder as well as depression and OCD.
> My life situation is such that depression symptoms are at a minimum and probably could do just fine on benzodiazepines alone - except - the doctors don't want to prescribe them and constantly try to switch me to antidepressants.
> Your opinions and help are greatly appreciated.
> Jim
>>> Hi jim, as you noticed Ive posted a zillion questions here so Im still aggravated too. Have you tried zoloft? MY SIL takes it for panick and she is singing the praises of this med. I'm currently on Serzone and my depression hasnt lifted yet but from what I've read it takes a rather high dosing to lift the dep. 300mg and above for theraputic affects. I started on 100 and now up to 300 nothing yet but Dr seems optomistic and he'll keep upping it to the the "right" dose. NO SIDE AFFECTS YET accept my neck gets rigid but that just my wacky self--- all the SSRI do this to me.
Good Luck,
Karen
Posted by Jim on October 14, 1998, at 11:26:35
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and benzodiazipines, posted by Karen on October 14, 1998, at 10:03:00
> > I am a 51 year old male who has been taking benzodiazepines for nearly 20 years for anxiety and panic disorder (from which my father also suffered). The benzodiazepines are the only medications that I have ever found to give me relief from anxiety/panic.
> > Over the last 10 years, I have also been diagnosed with major depression and have also been prescribed various antidepressants by multiple psychiatrists.
> > My experience with the antidepressants has been:
> > Wellbutrin - helped with depression, aggravated anxiety.
> > Prozac, Paxil, Effexor - helped with depression, shut me down sexually - and other nasty side effects.
> > I am currently NOT taking any antidepressant but take 1mg of Lorazepam/Ativan 3X a day for anxiety/panic.
> > I recently switched doctors and my current doctor wants to put me on Paxil and wean me off the benzodiazepines. (Every doctor that I visit gives me dirty looks when they find out that I take benzodiazapines, and, I nearly have to get down on my knees and beg for a prescription)!
> > My current doctor wants to start me on Paxil, again. Been there, done that! The side effect of shutting one down sexually is terrible, especially since I am finally in a decent relationship. Therefore, I plan on asking him if he would consider prescribing Serzone instead. I've read that Serzone has a lower incidence of this particular side effect.
> > Guess I have a couple of questions:
> > 1. I have seen lots of positive comments about Serzone and Remeron in the Internet Newsgroups. Is this worth a try - rather than try to live again with the terrible side effects of Paxil?
> > 2. Should I continue to feel like a drug addict because I take benzodiazepines? Seems to me that this is medication that controls my condition quite nicely - but - the medical community wants to keep taking it away from me. I'm not even sure that I can continue to get any more prescriptions!
> > 3. Can Paxil or Serzone effectively treat both the Anxiety and Depression? I have read the drug inserts and Paxil seems to be the only antidepressant that is officially indicated for Panic Disorder as well as depression and OCD.
> > My life situation is such that depression symptoms are at a minimum and probably could do just fine on benzodiazepines alone - except - the doctors don't want to prescribe them and constantly try to switch me to antidepressants.
> > Your opinions and help are greatly appreciated.
> > Jim
>
> >>> Hi jim, as you noticed Ive posted a zillion questions here so Im still aggravated too. Have you tried zoloft? MY SIL takes it for panick and she is singing the praises of this med. I'm currently on Serzone and my depression hasnt lifted yet but from what I've read it takes a rather high dosing to lift the dep. 300mg and above for theraputic affects. I started on 100 and now up to 300 nothing yet but Dr seems optomistic and he'll keep upping it to the the "right" dose. NO SIDE AFFECTS YET accept my neck gets rigid but that just my wacky self--- all the SSRI do this to me.
> Good Luck,
> KarenHi Karen - thanks for the reply.
I really don't want to try any of the SSRIs because of the nasty (especially sexual) side effects that I previously experienced with Prozac, Paxil, and Effexor.
I'm trying to talk my doctor into letting me try Serzone or Remeron, as these are different than the SSRIs (like Zoloft)and have a different side effect profile - very low incidence of sexual dysfunction.
Thanks
Jim
Posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 12:31:24
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and benzodiazipines, posted by Jim on October 14, 1998, at 11:26:35
Jim,
I too understand your attachment to benzos. I've been taking them to control my GAD and panic disorder for 15 years now, and for the past seven years, Klonopin has been a lifesaver. I don't know how I would have survived or accomplished anything without the help of benzos. I also have had my share of doctors who wanted to get me off of it, but I refused. I have tried the antidepressants as a supplement, only to become exasperated by the intolerable side effects. Which of course were no help concerning the anxiety problem.
My view is this: Any and all of the drugs that we take have the potential to cause harm, either with short term or long term usage. Bipolars (such as me) know that long term use of lithium can cause kidney and other problems, where the patient will then have to discontinue usage. Blood levels are also monitored to assure that the level of Lithium is not toxic. My mother ended up in the hopsital because her doctor failed to monitor her blood levels, and so I chose to be treated with Neurontin, a semi-new anticonvulsant and mood stabalizer. Since it is relatively new, it is uncertain what the long term side effects will be.
As for benzos, they've been around for quite a long time and the main thing my doctors seemed to be concerned about was possible abuse of the drug and addiction. I am on Klonopin 1mg 3 times a day and yes, I AM addicted. How could I not be?? My system relies on my daily dosage, and if I were to stop the Klonopin, there would be withdrawal effects. Some doctors also fear that benzos will stop working after a certain period of time and the dosage will then have to be increased. In some cases, patients increase on their own and find themselves abusing the drug.
I have never taken more than my prescribed dosage without my doctor's permission, and that is only in times of severe stress and elvated anxiety where I cannot cope without an additional pill. But those times are rare. Tell your doctor what YOU feel you need to control your symptoms. Don't forget that you are the one helping to supply his income, and there are a slew of doctors out there willing to treat you, unfortunately finding the right doctor can be time consuming and frustrating. As you might have noticed, I have a tainted view of mental health professionals because of the lack of empathetic and competant help I've encountered. Please remember that these are my personal views.
I don't condone a doctor refusing to prescribe a medication that makes your life tolerable and relieves your suffering, whatever his reasons may be. If you are not abusing the drug, are not in any danger continuing your current drug therapy, and your doctor still refuses to treat you accordingly -- send him walking!!
Lisa
Posted by Jim on October 14, 1998, at 15:17:04
In reply to Antidepressants and benzodiazipines, posted by Jim on October 13, 1998, at 15:52:44
Ok, now that you guys have convinced me that I am not a drug addict and that if benzos work for my anxiety/pd then I should take them - I now have another question.
The reason that I take Lorazepam is that my previous doctor was going to try to wean me off of the benzo that I was taking (diazepam) and onto Prozac. So, he wanted to switch me to lorazepam since he said it would be easier to withdraw me from Lorazepam.
However, I have noticed that I get a "rollercoaster" effect from Lorazepam that i didn't get from diazepam - maybe because the Lorazepam is a "fast - in and out" benzo vs diazepam which has a much longer half life and, is much, much cheaper.
I have seen lots of people on this BBS who seem to like XANAX, but I have tried that too and it didn't seem to do much for me.
So, if a benzo is the best answer for me (which I have always thought contrary to the numerous doctors who scorn at me) then the question is, which one is the best for a "maintenance" situation like mine?
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 14, 1998, at 18:21:16
In reply to Question for a knowledgable "benzo" expert, posted by Jim on October 14, 1998, at 15:17:04
> I get a "rollercoaster" effect from Lorazepam
> that i didn't get from diazepam - maybe because
> the Lorazepam is a "fast - in and out" benzo vs
> diazepam which has a much longer half life...
>
> So, if a benzo is the best answer for me ...then
> the question is, which one is the best for a
> "maintenance" situation like mine?The bottom line, I think, is what works best for
you. Best, of course, to avoid a "rollercoaster"
effect, so if that's the only difference, then the
diazepam would seem to make more sense...Bob
Posted by Jeff on October 16, 1998, at 14:09:13
In reply to Question for a knowledgable "benzo" expert, posted by Jim on October 14, 1998, at 15:17:04
I used to take Tranxene (Clorazepate) and noticed it didn't produce the quick in and out that you describe (as Ativan does - which I also used to take). Tranxene does have a longer half life than Ativan. It worked well. The only thing I take now is Luvox for OCD/hypochondria/anxiety (125 mg/day). It works well and has a low incidence of sexual side effects. It might be worth a try. Hope everything works out for you!!
Posted by Bob Huff on January 18, 1999, at 12:53:00
In reply to Re: Question for a knowledgable "benzo" expert, posted by Jeff on October 16, 1998, at 14:09:13
Question for anyone who takes "benzos" currently. I currently take lithium and
rarely a lorazepam for stress/anxiety. Is is possible to take only "benzos" if they work
for you and stop the lithium doses. My dose isn't that high but it causes rough side affects and
if I need medication long term lithium could be a physiological problem in the future. I am
tring to find long term relatively safe medications.
Posted by alan on January 18, 1999, at 15:49:26
In reply to Re: Question for a knowledgable "benzo" expert, posted by Bob Huff on January 18, 1999, at 12:53:00
> Question for anyone who takes "benzos" currently. I currently take lithium and
> rarely a lorazepam for stress/anxiety. Is is possible to take only "benzos" if they work
> for you and stop the lithium doses. My dose isn't that high but it causes rough side affects and
> if I need medication long term lithium could be a physiological problem in the future. I am
> tring to find long term relatively safe medications.I'm no expert, but: I'll assume that the lithium is for a bipolar or manic-depressive problem. Am I right? If so benzos won't much help. I was on lithium (to help me with depression without mania) so I know how unpleasant it can be. Fotunately, there are other meds for bi-polar disorders that may agree with you more. Ask your Doc.
Posted by saintjames on January 31, 1999, at 16:00:25
In reply to Antidepressants and benzodiazipines, posted by Jim on October 13, 1998, at 15:52:44
> 2. Should I continue to feel like a drug addict because I take benzodiazepines? Seems to me that this is medication that controls my condition quite nicely - but - the medical community wants to keep taking it away from me. I'm not even sure that I can continue to get any more prescriptions!
Find a doc that will persrcibe. AD's often help with anxiety so it is worth a try. Again you seem to need a more knowlagable doc who can try some things and if Atavin or other benzo's are all that work be comfortable with useing them.
james
Posted by werther on January 15, 2001, at 10:44:55
In reply to Re: Antidepressants and benzodiazipines, posted by Jim on October 14, 1998, at 11:26:35
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with benzos.
I have been so grateful for clonopin, but terrified that I would "ceiling out", as my pharmacist friend who thinks I should get off it asap, lest it ceases to work for me, has put it.It has been four years since I started it and it is a relief to see that people have been on benzos for many years without them losing efficacy.
paxil lost it. Zoloft lost it, but clonopin has been "ver very good to me"
This is the end of the thread.
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