Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1824

Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Problems with site (please read)

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 29, 1998, at 8:43:07

Hi,

Sorry about the malfunction here yesterday. I'm not sure exactly what the problem was. But I have some requests:

1. If you click the submit button to post, please don't try to cancel it if you have second thoughts (or if it takes a long time to process it). I think interruptions like that might throw things off.

2. If a post doesn't show up on a page on which it should, please try reloading that page before submitting the post again.

3. If you do submit a post again, please first reload the page from which you're posting it (basically this is #2 again).

Thanks, and holiday wishes to everyone,

Bob

 

Re: Problems with site (please read)

Posted by racer on December 29, 1998, at 15:11:31

In reply to Problems with site (please read), posted by Dr. Bob on December 29, 1998, at 8:43:07

Hm, no, if the settings in your directory make you the "owner" of all files as they're posted here, you would get a different sort of gremlin here. Not being able to get onto the board at all says that there is another problem.

Is your web server running UNIX or a flavor of Linux? Or, heaven help you, some bastardized NT server? Since you're on a university system, I have to guess it's UNIX/Linux. Can you find out what flavor they're using? That would be the first step in avoiding a similar problem in future. Also, ask their server admin what was going on from their end. The fact that we could hit your other pages, but not this board makes me wonder, since I could also read the messages through the msgs directory. It was only this board that couldn't come up. Make sure that your permissions are set correctly in UNIX in case this was not accidental.

Also, some of the dates on the files on this board were wrong: messages posted in early Dec had late Dec dates on them. Hm... I also notice today that some of the threads are very different: DL's answer to me is now a separate thread, though it was part of the main thread on Sunday. Are these and other modifications things that you authorized, or is someone hacking into your space?

Lastly, MSA's board script has a known gremlin that can eat some messages. If two people post a message at the precise same moment, they'll both get the same msg ID, and only one will be visible. Both titles will appear on the board, but only one message is actually there. It's frustrating, but I don't know how to fix it. It's rare, but very frustrating.

Good luck, and be aware of all the boards to ask questions about MSA scripts and UNIX/Linux in general...

 

Re: Problems (read only if technically minded :-)

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 1998, at 8:33:38

In reply to Re: Problems with site (please read), posted by racer on December 29, 1998, at 15:11:31

> Hm, no, if the settings in your directory make you the "owner" of all files as they're posted here, you would get a different sort of gremlin here.

The problem wasn't ownership of the file (for the main page), but that it got zeroed somehow. My theory is that the script that updates it after a new post is added got interrupted before it finished.

> Also, some of the dates on the files on this board were wrong: messages posted in early Dec had late Dec dates on them.

Can you give me an example? That sure would be a new problem...

>Hm... I also notice today that some of the threads are very different: DL's answer to me is now a separate thread, though it was part of the main thread on Sunday.

I think it was that way only very transiently, after I first resurrected the main page, because of some duplicate posts (one would get added to the thread it was supposed to, but the other would just be left over and therefore get treated like a new thread).

> Lastly, MSA's board script has a known gremlin that can eat some messages. If two people post a message at the precise same moment, they'll both get the same msg ID, and only one will be visible. Both titles will appear on the board, but only one message is actually there.

Some posts do seem to have been eaten, but I don't think in the above way (I haven't seen different posts with the same ID). I think that was one bug I did manage to catch.

Thanks for trying to figure this out. Let me know if you have any other ideas...

Bob

 

Re: Problems (resp. from technically minded :-)

Posted by racer on December 30, 1998, at 17:39:24

In reply to Re: Problems (read only if technically minded :-), posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 1998, at 8:33:38

> > Also, some of the dates on the files on this board were wrong: messages posted in early Dec had late Dec dates on them.
> Can you give me an example? That sure would be a new problem...
I went in on the day the board was down, and read directly from the message directory. I was looking for responses to my post, which I knew was written the day before, so I only picked out messages with the correct modification dates. Many of the earlier files that I looked at, though, were dated much earlier, and there were no new messages in their threads. I've never seen that happen before, so I don't know what it means. I do have several working boards using this script, and have had various problems with them on occasion, but this is a new one on me.

On the other hand, you have a modified version of the script running here, so it might help if I could see precisely what modifications have been made. Are you using any addins from other sources to allow the features like email notification? Did you make the threading modifications yourself or through MSA or through someone else (like the Puppetmaster)? It's a weird one, especially since the "zeroing out" issue would be a server problem, not a script problem. (I'll say it again, I've used almost a dozen scripts to set up bulletin boards now, and this is by far my favorite script. It may not be perfect, but it comes dang close. In fact, my only real complaint is that Matt is about 19 now, and that drives me crazy! How dare he be so good, so young? And that obviously doesn't have much to do with that script...)
> >Hm... I also notice today that some of the threads are very different: DL's answer to me is now a separate thread, though it was part of the main thread on Sunday.
> I think it was that way only very transiently, after I first resurrected the main page, because of some duplicate posts (one would get added to the thread it was supposed to, but the other would just be left over and therefore get treated like a new thread).
Nope, they're still there in that same spot.
> > Lastly, MSA's board script has a known gremlin that can eat some messages. If two people post a message at the precise same moment, they'll both get the same msg ID, and only one will be visible. Both titles will appear on the board, but only one message is actually there.
> Some posts do seem to have been eaten, but I don't think in the above way (I haven't seen different posts with the same ID). I think that was one bug I did manage to catch.
Nope. It's a common bug, and sites with a larger volumn are more prone to it. I've had good luck avoiding it using CGIWrap, but nothing really eliminates it. It's one of the things you just live with.

That does bring up another question though: can you move to using CGIWrap on this page? If so, it eliminates a few potential problem areas right from the start. You won't need to open your script to the world, you can protect your data and your directories better, and so on. Talk to your sys admin about it, and if they don't have it set up, you should be able to set it up yourself. Barring that, of course, you could do what I did to begin with: leave the 777 permissions on the board files, and put the whole thing into a directory with a 711 on it. That way, the casual hacker can't read anything in the directories, but the board script is still accessible to the users.

> Thanks for trying to figure this out. Let me know if you have any other ideas...

Hey, the official racer transient cure for depression: distraction. What a concept, I love computers and love to troubleshoot. This was therapuetic for me. But don't bill me, doc, on accounta I still can't pay...
> Bob

 

Re: Problems

Posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 1998, at 22:56:02

In reply to Re: Problems (resp. from technically minded :-), posted by racer on December 30, 1998, at 17:39:24

>Many of the earlier files that I looked at, though, were dated much earlier, and there were no new messages in their threads.

Hmm, if you could point one out, I'd love to take a look at it. You're right to note that it does matter that there isn't a later post in the thread, because that would cause the (old) file to be updated.

> On the other hand, you have a modified version of the script running here, so it might help if I could see precisely what modifications have been made. Are you using any addins from other sources to allow the features like email notification?

Done it all myself. I just didn't know about any add-ins! If you're up for more distraction, send me your email address, and I'll send you the script. Two heads are better than one. :-)

>It's a weird one, especially since the "zeroing out" issue would be a server problem, not a script problem.

Are you sure? If the script malfunctions after opening the file, but before writing it, won't the file end up zeroed?

> > >Hm... I also notice today that some of the threads are very different: DL's answer to me is now a separate thread, though it was part of the main thread on Sunday.

Huh, what do you know. I hope that happened when I was trying to put things back together (rather than because of a bug in the script). But if they didn't go back together right, that means there was a bug earlier on...

> > Some posts do seem to have been eaten, but I don't think in the above way (I haven't seen different posts with the same ID). I think that was one bug I did manage to catch.
> Nope.

Nope = you've seen two posts here with the same ID?

> That does bring up another question though: can you move to using CGIWrap on this page? If so, it eliminates a few potential problem areas right from the start. You won't need to open your script to the world, you can protect your data and your directories better, and so on.

Is the script open to the world now? :-)

>Talk to your sys admin about it, and if they don't have it set up, you should be able to set it up yourself. Barring that, of course, you could do what I did to begin with: leave the 777 permissions on the board files...

What 777 permissions? :-)

Bob

 

Dr Bob - Howzabout...

Posted by racer on December 31, 1998, at 13:30:54

In reply to Re: Problems, posted by Dr. Bob on December 30, 1998, at 22:56:02

I'll email you more direct information later today, so that we don't have to fill your board with this, interesting as I may find it!

As for the common Gremlin, I haven't seen it hit your board, but it's pretty much unavoidable. If two people submit at the same time, the messages will get gremmied. It's only happened on my higher volumn board about twice in a year, but on other higher volumn boards it's more common. Fortunately, your board is a civilized size, so you're more likely to avoid it.

As for your script being open now, it probably is. How comfortable are you with UNIX? That's a key to all this.

I'll email as soon as I get home to my own computer...

 

While yer talkin tech...

Posted by ideaguy on January 1, 1999, at 22:59:17

In reply to Dr Bob - Howzabout..., posted by racer on December 31, 1998, at 13:30:54

...which was a fun digression for us ADD types...

I enjoy this board, and wonder if it would be easy
to add a couple links, visible when reading a post, which
would navigate to the Next/Previous message in thread. (And maybe continue into
the next thread if at an end.)

Or maybe this feature exists but my ADD is missing it?!

Happy New Year, BTW.

 

Re: While yer talkin tech...

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 1999, at 11:32:24

In reply to While yer talkin tech..., posted by ideaguy on January 1, 1999, at 22:59:17

> I enjoy this board, and wonder if it would be easy
> to add a couple links, visible when reading a post, which
> would navigate to the Next/Previous message in thread.

Well, the whole thread's listed, so you should be able to go anywhere you want in it...

> (And maybe continue into
> the next thread if at an end.)

Hmm, I've seen that at other boards...

Bob

 

Re: While yer talkin tech...

Posted by MrZest on January 3, 1999, at 4:26:10

In reply to Re: While yer talkin tech..., posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 1999, at 11:32:24

Not intending to start a stampede of 'Iwants' here, but I would like to see post replies following a logical course.

I.E. 'Problems with site (please read) Dr. Bob 12/29/98' is followed by 'Re: Problems with site (please read) racer 12/29/98'. The next post, 'Re: Problems (read only if technically minded :-) Dr. Bob 12/30/98', is actually an answer to the second post but shows as a reply to the original post. For some of us it can get a bit confusing who is talking to whom with it the way it is.

The original post is left aligned, all of the subsequent posts are one tab over. I have seen this same script on many other boards, and somehow they make each post 'tab' over directly under the post it is supposed to be in reply to. Dr Bob's would be left aligned, then racer's would be directly below it and over one tab as it is now. But then Dr Bob's reply to racer would be directly below the racer post and spaced one tab further over, etc. If I came along and replied to the original after that, it would still be tabbed only one over from the original and would be easily seen to be a reply to the original.

 

Tabs in listings

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 3, 1999, at 18:07:59

In reply to Re: While yer talkin tech..., posted by MrZest on January 3, 1999, at 4:26:10

>For some of us it can get a bit confusing who is talking to whom with it the way it is.

I understand what you're saying, but each post says which one it's in reply to...

> The original post is left aligned, all of the subsequent posts are one tab over. I have seen this same script on many other boards, and somehow they make each post 'tab' over directly under the post it is supposed to be in reply to.

To tell you the truth, I think it's *more* confusing that way, with all those tabs. It makes the structure of the thread more clear, but it's easy to be tabbed past the edge of the window. So I took the tabs out.

I'd say it's a moot point now, but if others want to speak up for tabs, I'd be interested to know how many fans they have...

Bob

 

Re: Tabs in listings

Posted by Janice on January 14, 1999, at 3:28:47

In reply to Tabs in listings, posted by Dr. Bob on January 3, 1999, at 18:07:59

This is a wonderful site. Thanks for providing
it. I will have to get used to the new dual
window system, though, I find myself sitting,
waiting for the screen to change and wondering why
nothing is happening. It took me awhile to figure
out that there were two windows open and that the
message I was trying to retrieve was available in
the other window. After I read a message, it isn't
highlighted on the main list window, as it was
when I paged back to the main list after reading
each message.

As much I like this site, I do wish the editor was
was 'friendlier'. One long line of text is
cumbersome, for many reasons. I think most people
need to see what they've written when they are
composing. Cursoring back to see what has been
said is awkward; that's why I edit, myself. Also,
one big, long line of text annoys me (smile),
probably, because this isn't the way I am accustomed
to viewing text (paragraphs). They also annoy
me because they confuse me. They make my eyes roll
in my head; they seem to make the task of reading
harder than it should be. If it isn't too much
trouble, can you make your editor more 'friendly'?

If you can't change the editor, can you change the
size of the edit box, making it a little wider for
those of us who do our own editing? Thanks.

 

Dual windows and long lines of text

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 17, 1999, at 1:10:28

In reply to Re: Tabs in listings, posted by Janice on January 14, 1999, at 3:28:47

> I will have to get used to the new dual
> window system, though, I find myself sitting,
> waiting for the screen to change and wondering why
> nothing is happening. It took me awhile to figure
> out that there were two windows open and that the
> message I was trying to retrieve was available in
> the other window.

Try resizing and moving the windows so you can see both at the same time. I think that works best. But then you might as well switch to the version with frames. :-)

> After I read a message, it isn't
> highlighted on the main list window, as it was
> when I paged back to the main list after reading
> each message.

Huh. That does seem to happen for me (with Netscape 4.5 on a Macintosh)...

> As much I like this site, I do wish the editor was
> was 'friendlier'. One long line of text is
> cumbersome, for many reasons.

I agree, scrolling horizotally is for the birds. But this problem disappeared with this version (4.5) of Netscape's browser. It's their "editor", after all, not mine. Now the lines in the box "wrap" automatically, and my days of horizontal scrolling are over. :-)

Bob


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