![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
I was treated for depression in my early 20's (with
amitriptyline and lithium) and went as longs as 4 years
on these drugs, and then went off, then on because I
kept wanting to be medication free. The last time I went
off, my doc prescribed zoloft and I landed on the moon.
Now it looks like I'm headed for combination therapy
again.In the past few years I've noticed my ups have become
increasingly intense. It seems like what used to be
a quasi-unipolar situation has mutated into something
like bipolarity and seems to be getting worse.
Having read about kindling, and antidepressant induced
mania, I'm starting to get concerned about my crazy
mood swings. I actually like them in a way (I'm a musician
and songwriter) but my energy levels are making it
hard to work and I suppose it is possible I could be
headed for full blown mania.Given the risk/side effects of the mood stabilizers,
can any of you offer experience or input on the possible
course of my particular illness? I'm beginning to think
I need to head this off at the pass but I'm actually
avoiding going to my doc because of medication fear.
So I'm medically awol at the moment, but suffering.Can anybody relate? Have suggestions?
Posted by judi on January 8, 1999, at 21:57:19
In reply to Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
Oh yes, I can definitely relate. I've been rapid cycling (bipolar 1) for over a year now. I assume you're talking about hypomanic episodes here, and I doubt you could find one person who doesn't enjoy them, especially someone creative like yourself. But when you get full blown mania, psychotic, strapped down and in a psych ward, that's a whole different story. The positive for you is I think there's only a 5% switchover from bipolar 2 to bipolar 1, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I've had hypomanic episodes that evolve within a few days to mania since I was a teen. But I do understand your hesitancy to take meds- they're awful. How are your depressions, have you been suicidal? I guess it all depends on how bad your condition is, but there are a lot of people with mild conditions who learn to handle them w/o meds. Unfortunately I'm not one of them. Good luck.
Posted by Molly Straight on January 9, 1999, at 23:08:12
In reply to Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
> I was treated for depression in my early 20's (with
> amitriptyline and lithium) and went as longs as 4 years
> on these drugs, and then went off, then on because I
> kept wanting to be medication free. The last time I went
> off, my doc prescribed zoloft and I landed on the moon.
> Now it looks like I'm headed for combination therapy
> again.
> In the past few years I've noticed my ups have become
> increasingly intense. It seems like what used to be
> a quasi-unipolar situation has mutated into something
> like bipolarity and seems to be getting worse.
> Having read about kindling, and antidepressant induced
> mania, I'm starting to get concerned about my crazy
> mood swings. I actually like them in a way (I'm a musician
> and songwriter) but my energy levels are making it
> hard to work and I suppose it is possible I could be
> headed for full blown mania.
> Given the risk/side effects of the mood stabilizers,
> can any of you offer experience or input on the possible
> course of my particular illness? I'm beginning to think
> I need to head this off at the pass but I'm actually
> avoiding going to my doc because of medication fear.
> So I'm medically awol at the moment, but suffering.
> Can anybody relate? Have suggestions?
Please go to your doctor. Hypomania is great, but mania could kill you! Find a psychopharmacologist that understands your misgivings. Good luck.
Posted by Molly straight on January 9, 1999, at 23:16:23
In reply to Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
read "Unquiet Mind" by Kay Redfield Jamison
She is bipolar and so-authored the definitive text on Manic Depression. Really really good.Also a new book out called something like"Two Sides of the Coin" or something like that
Posted by Mel on January 11, 1999, at 10:19:05
In reply to Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
I sure can relate! I was originally treated for my depression with Zoloft. Got the hypomanic symptoms from it but they seemed to subside as my dose was increased. Then once the Zoloft stopped working for me, I was started on Celexa. Got hypomanic on that too so am now in the process of weaning myself off of it. I am going very slow because the withdrawl symptoms are unbearable for me although the depression seems to be in check. (just more reason to think I may be bipolar - finishing a cycle I think) I like the hypomanic states also to a point. I am getting so much done around the house (which was severely neglected during my depression). But it scares me sometimes a little when I find myself jumping up and down in one place for no reason and stuff like that. I always wonder if I will go into a full-blown manic state sometime. I started a thread above titled "SSRI induced mania" which has a lot of info from others also along this same line. Where did you get your info on "kindling"? (I have never heard that term before. Sounds very appropriate.) I am doing some research for my next doctor's appointment and would love as much info as I can to talk this over with my doctor. I've got to think there are other anti-depressants out there that don't have this manic side effect but since everyone's chemistry is different, I guess it's just trial and error. (yuk) By the way, I love your term "medically awol". Made me giggle. I am "therapy awol" because I cannot find a therapist I like. My doc doesn't know this yet - he's been on vacation. Makes it seem a lot more fun to be "awol" instead of unable to click with a therapist. I wish you the best of luck in figuring this out. See you around. ~Mel
Posted by Sean on January 11, 1999, at 13:24:25
In reply to Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
> I was treated for depression in my early 20's (with
> amitriptyline and lithium) and went as longs as 4 years
> on these drugs, and then went off, then on because I
> kept wanting to be medication free. The last time I went
> off, my doc prescribed zoloft and I landed on the moon.
> Now it looks like I'm headed for combination therapy
> again.
> In the past few years I've noticed my ups have become
> increasingly intense. It seems like what used to be
> a quasi-unipolar situation has mutated into something
> like bipolarity and seems to be getting worse.
> Having read about kindling, and antidepressant induced
> mania, I'm starting to get concerned about my crazy
> mood swings. I actually like them in a way (I'm a musician
> and songwriter) but my energy levels are making it
> hard to work and I suppose it is possible I could be
> headed for full blown mania.
> Given the risk/side effects of the mood stabilizers,
> can any of you offer experience or input on the possible
> course of my particular illness? I'm beginning to think
> I need to head this off at the pass but I'm actually
> avoiding going to my doc because of medication fear.
> So I'm medically awol at the moment, but suffering.
> Can anybody relate? Have suggestions?
Thanks for the response; I'm really glad I found this
site. I think I do need to find a doc and get more
constructive about this instead of fighting it. I'm
glad to hear that bp2-1 switching is unlikely (although
with enough sleep deprivation anything's possible!)I've become a "waiter", that is, when I feel like killing
myself, I just wait for 3-4 weeks and it changes. The
pain is incredible and I really don't function very
well. Then somehow things seem a little better and
the whole thing starts over again, up down, up down. It
seems very natural to me in some way, like I have
a psychological cycle of the seasons going on. It
is just getting hard to deal with the rest of the
world and I've managed to overspend myself into
some serious debt.I feel that the psychotherapeutic work I've done
has made me more aware and tolerant of these intense
feelings and cycles. The problem is I sense it is
getting worse and when I look at the actual percent
of my life where I'm actually productive (work,
music, being emotionally available to other people)
I realize I'm below the 50% mark. This is no
way to live. I'm missing out on a lot.As strange as it seems, the idea of killing myself
seems very natural to me. I guess most people don't
feel this way very often. I wonder what kind of
urgency my artistic work would have if I never
felt this was "the end"?But what could I create as a dead person? How
much torment does one have to feel until killing
one's self is reasonable? What is it like to be
normal?This shit is tricky. But thanks for the advice, it
seems more valuable coming from you folks than a
doctor. I'm going to get help.Sean.
Posted by judi on January 14, 1999, at 11:37:05
In reply to Re: Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 11, 1999, at 13:24:25
> > I was treated for depression in my early 20's (with
> > amitriptyline and lithium) and went as longs as 4 years
> > on these drugs, and then went off, then on because I
> > kept wanting to be medication free. The last time I went
> > off, my doc prescribed zoloft and I landed on the moon.
> > Now it looks like I'm headed for combination therapy
> > again.
> > In the past few years I've noticed my ups have become
> > increasingly intense. It seems like what used to be
> > a quasi-unipolar situation has mutated into something
> > like bipolarity and seems to be getting worse.
> > Having read about kindling, and antidepressant induced
> > mania, I'm starting to get concerned about my crazy
> > mood swings. I actually like them in a way (I'm a musician
> > and songwriter) but my energy levels are making it
> > hard to work and I suppose it is possible I could be
> > headed for full blown mania.
> > Given the risk/side effects of the mood stabilizers,
> > can any of you offer experience or input on the possible
> > course of my particular illness? I'm beginning to think
> > I need to head this off at the pass but I'm actually
> > avoiding going to my doc because of medication fear.
> > So I'm medically awol at the moment, but suffering.
> > Can anybody relate? Have suggestions?
>
> Thanks for the response; I'm really glad I found this
> site. I think I do need to find a doc and get more
> constructive about this instead of fighting it. I'm
> glad to hear that bp2-1 switching is unlikely (although
> with enough sleep deprivation anything's possible!)
> I've become a "waiter", that is, when I feel like killing
> myself, I just wait for 3-4 weeks and it changes. The
> pain is incredible and I really don't function very
> well. Then somehow things seem a little better and
> the whole thing starts over again, up down, up down. It
> seems very natural to me in some way, like I have
> a psychological cycle of the seasons going on. It
> is just getting hard to deal with the rest of the
> world and I've managed to overspend myself into
> some serious debt.
> I feel that the psychotherapeutic work I've done
> has made me more aware and tolerant of these intense
> feelings and cycles. The problem is I sense it is
> getting worse and when I look at the actual percent
> of my life where I'm actually productive (work,
> music, being emotionally available to other people)
> I realize I'm below the 50% mark. This is no
> way to live. I'm missing out on a lot.
> As strange as it seems, the idea of killing myself
> seems very natural to me. I guess most people don't
> feel this way very often. I wonder what kind of
> urgency my artistic work would have if I never
> felt this was "the end"?
> But what could I create as a dead person? How
> much torment does one have to feel until killing
> one's self is reasonable? What is it like to be
> normal?
> This shit is tricky. But thanks for the advice, it
> seems more valuable coming from you folks than a
> doctor. I'm going to get help.
> Sean.
Hi Sean
I'm really glad you're going for help. Let us know
how things go. Unfortunately suicidal thoughts (ideation)
are really common in bipolar people. There's a vast
difference in thinking and doing but please let
your shrink know. Take care.- Judi
Posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 1999, at 7:37:37
In reply to Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Sean on January 8, 1999, at 15:53:22
Hi Sean. I can totally relate: SSRIs seem to cause this problem (hypomania) for me a lot. "Bipolar III" is what I've heard this called (unipolar depression with antidepressant-induced manias). It seems to be most common in early-onset depression. Interestingly, MAOIs don't do this to me (I've never been able to tolerate tricyclics; Effexor really hit me hard, though).
A couple ideas: (1) switch antidepressants - maybe another SSRI would be less likely to cause this problem, or Wellbutrin, Serzone, Remeron, etc. (2) Combo therapy - I know it bites, but some of the newer mood stabilizers are much more benign than, say, lithium. I've heard good things about Lamictal and Neurontin, and Topamax seems promising too. There are also the atypical antipsychotics, Zyprexa and Risperdal and Seroquel (more side effects though, sedation and weight gain especially). I found your comments on your work in psychotherapy very interesting (what sort of therapy are you in, if you know?). I think psychotherapy for bipolar disorders might be underrated - the kind of awareness you describe is really important. The problem is that being aware of your moods won't necessarily change them. (I've also used behavioral interventions for mild hypomania; e.g., keeping a notebook with me so that I can write things down rather than embarrassing myself by blabbing. :)
I also recommend, if you haven't already, reading Fieve's _Moodswing_. I don't agree with all his conclusions, but the ideas presented have merit. In particular, he goes into the issue of whether mood stabilizers dampen creativity. I found it especially interesting because I dated a man who Fieve might describe as having a "hyperthymic temperament" (lucky son-of-a-gun) and he was able to do amazing things - he got four B.S. degrees in four years while partying hard the whole time (no sign of burnout or depression).
BTW, I'm now in monotherapy on Parnate with no hypomania or mood swings. So it's not always necessary to take multiple drugs for this sort of disorder. I think it's important that you find a really competent psychopharmacologist, as not all general psychiatrists are familiar with Bipolar III (or whatever you want to call it). Can I ask where you live? I (or someone else) might be able to make recommendations.
Mel: "Kindling" is a term borrowed from neurology, it means basically that seizures beget more seizures (and untreated can lead to status epilepticus). Peter Kramer mentions the concept in _Listening to Prozac_. It's not something that has been studied much in regard to mood disorders, but my own experience is that it does seem to happen (with depression as well as mania).
Posted by Jasmine on January 18, 2000, at 17:29:52
In reply to Re: Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 1999, at 7:37:37
Dear Sean and anyone else who can relate:
When i was sixteen years old I took the anti-depressant Paxil (in the family of Prozac and Zoloft).
It worked like a miracle and totally changed my life. Before taking them I had dysthymia that turned into major-depression after a sad separation of mine
Anyway,I took Paxil for about nine months and its gonna be five years and my depression hasnt returned!! The only thing is Ive noticed that I have a very MILD form of manic-depression,which
I learned in a clinical psychology class. Ive read from another source that if it last longer than two years its called Cyclothymia.Im not complaining.I love the energy I have even though
I have insonmia.I feel blessed to be who I am and I love being hyper cuz I have more highs than lows. The positive definitly outweighs the negative. Its good to know that im not the only one whos had
anti-depressant-induced hymomania. Remember:If it doesnt interfere with your daily functioning that you dont need professional help.
In conclusion,Paxil saved my life (thanx to God
) and I want anyone suffering from depression to know that there is a cure with the right diagnoses,medication,as well as the correct DOSAGE.
Thanx,Jaz
Posted by d'bora on March 12, 2000, at 13:59:08
In reply to Re: Zolfot induced hypomania, posted by Elizabeth on January 18, 1999, at 7:37:37
Hello all. I was interested to find these postings as I, too, experienced hypomanic symptoms a few years back when I was treated with Zoloft. The Zoloft was prescribed for a long mis-diagnosed recurrent depression due to Seasonal Affective Disorder.
The hypomania brought on by Zoloft manifested first as extreme irritability and later (in spring and summer) as greatly increased energy, mild euphoria and a much reduced need for sleep. This began to happen within the first 6-8 weeks or so of taking Zoloft. I've been through a number of different antidepressants since, none of which had quite that marked an effect.
But even unmedicated, I have repeatedly experienced what I have heard described as a "spring swing", greatly increased energy, etc. when spring finally comes. It's not ever a problem, it doesn't interfere with my work - but it always sets my friends on their ears!
My question is this - does this recurrent pattern mean that I could be bipolar? I have seen some mention of SAD being related to Bipolar II but nothing definitive. Has anyone seen any further information on the relationship between SAD and bipolar disorders? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by Janice on March 12, 2000, at 14:40:57
In reply to Re: Zoloft induced hypomania SAD, posted by d'bora on March 12, 2000, at 13:59:08
hello d'bora (interesting name)
I have both SAD and am bipolar. I am not a medical person...but I, personally, would not be able to separate the bipolar from the SAD. I have a very unmedical feeling that many bipolar's highs are related to the amount and strength of light in the sky...and probably a variable of other factors.
It's hard, when you feel this good, to take medications that will diminish those feelings, especially after being depressed all winter.
I believe most medical people would suggest you treat the bipolar - because it has a tendancy to worsen over time.
Please feel free to ask me any questions, Janice.
Posted by Chris A. on March 12, 2000, at 23:07:15
In reply to Re: Zoloft induced hypomania SAD, posted by d'bora on March 12, 2000, at 13:59:08
That was a title of an article in a primary care journal.
SAD accompanies my bipolar. My first hypomanic episode arrived with the advent of SSRIs following 25 years of recurrent depression. Irritability is the major component of my hypomanias/mania.
Everyone is different. Just make sure you have a really good doc. Personally I think it's better to err on the side of using a mood stabilizer than not. I was in denial about the bipolar for years - still don't like it, but definitely need to bring the ends of the mood closer together.
Good luck in sorting it out.Chris A.
Posted by Anna P. on March 13, 2000, at 17:10:42
In reply to Re: Zoloft induced hypomania SAD, posted by d'bora on March 12, 2000, at 13:59:08
> Hello all. I was interested to find these postings as I, too, experienced hypomanic symptoms a few years back when I was treated with Zoloft. The Zoloft was prescribed for a long mis-diagnosed recurrent depression due to Seasonal Affective Disorder.
>
> The hypomania brought on by Zoloft manifested first as extreme irritability and later (in spring and summer) as greatly increased energy, mild euphoria and a much reduced need for sleep. This began to happen within the first 6-8 weeks or so of taking Zoloft. I've been through a number of different antidepressants since, none of which had quite that marked an effect.
>
>
Hello d'bora and everyone. After years now I understand what has happened to me. I also thought I have the Seasonal Affective Disorder. I also took Zoloft, and had "seasonal switches". However, I haven't experience mania, so I haven't suspect bipolar. Now , I know there are few types of bipolar. I just loose my energy every spring and fall, and go back to normal during the summer. The loss of energy is significant - I become dysfunctional, and so far no medication have helped.None of the local doctors knew what it is.
Anna P.
Posted by larry on March 13, 2000, at 20:57:06
In reply to Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by Chris A. on March 12, 2000, at 23:07:15
I too become irritable on SSRI's. What mood stabilizer do you use? >
That was a title of an article in a primary care journal.
>
> SAD accompanies my bipolar. My first hypomanic episode arrived with the advent of SSRIs following 25 years of recurrent depression. Irritability is the major component of my hypomanias/mania.
>
> Everyone is different. Just make sure you have a really good doc. Personally I think it's better to err on the side of using a mood stabilizer than not. I was in denial about the bipolar for years - still don't like it, but definitely need to bring the ends of the mood closer together.
>
> Good luck in sorting it out.
>
> Chris A.
Posted by d'bora on March 14, 2000, at 6:24:40
In reply to Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by Chris A. on March 12, 2000, at 23:07:15
Thanks to all for their input. I am not sure yet if this SAD "spring swing" phenomenon is anything to be worried about with reference to an underlying bipolar disorder. I'm just casting about for information since I saw a possible connection between SAD and bipolar disorders mentioned somewhere, and some of my past behaviours could conceivably be construed as, well, shall we say, the result of poor impulse control! :)
Does the fact that SSRI's trigger hypomania in itself confirm a bipolar disorder? Is it possible for a medication to trigger hypomania in a person who does *not* have an underlying bipolar disorder? Thoughts?
I live in a small community in the far north (howdy, eh!) and have little access to journals, etc., although I could certainly look into an interlibrary loan if I had some titles. I guess what I am most interested in would be information on specific articles that discuss a connection between SAD-like symptoms and bipolar disorders. Any particular journals I should be looking at?
Thanks again for everyone's input, it seems like there are a lot of helpful people in this neck of the woods!
d'bora
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on March 14, 2000, at 8:23:25
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by d'bora on March 14, 2000, at 6:24:40
>. I am not sure yet if this SAD "spring swing" phenomenon is anything to be worried about with reference to an underlying bipolar disorder. I'm just casting about for information since I saw a possible connection between SAD and bipolar disorders mentioned somewhere, and some of my past behaviours could conceivably be construed as, well, shall we say, the result of poor impulse control! :)
I don’t know very much about SAD (seasonal affective disorder). However, from the bit of reading I have done, including some stuff by N. Rosenthal, manic-like highs, and even acute manias, are definitely features of the illness. The posts appearing in this thread are consistent with this. Intuitively, it would seem that SAD and bipolar disorders share things in common, although I’m not sure it necessarily follows that they should be treated the same way. Perhaps manipulating the circadian rhythms using light-therapy is enough to abolish the manic-swing.
I don’t recall seeing any posts here addressing the details of the different strategies currently used for treating SAD. I hope someone reading this can help out.
- Scott
Posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 13:47:06
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by larry on March 13, 2000, at 20:57:06
> I too become irritable on SSRI's. What mood stabilizer do you use? >
>Mood stabilizers? I just started Aricept (donzepil) after my ECT treatment yesterday. I am also trying to use some salmon oil - EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid), but have not tolerated the dose very well. I also find good sleep hygiene essential to keeping my mood in check. My bipolar gets so mixed that I start feeling like a checker board sometimes. I have been through multiple stabilizers - (lithium, Depakote, Tegretol, Klonipin, lamotrigene, verapamil, gabapentin, topirimate, buprenorphrine and nimodipine. I also have to supplement the thyroid.
Chris A.
Posted by Anna P. on March 14, 2000, at 15:24:10
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 13:47:06
> > I too become irritable on SSRI's. What mood stabilizer do you use? >
> >
>
> Mood stabilizers? I just started Aricept (donzepil) after my ECT treatment yesterday. I am also trying to use some salmon oil - EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid and DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid), but have not tolerated the dose very well. I also find good sleep hygiene essential to keeping my mood in check. My bipolar gets so mixed that I start feeling like a checker board sometimes. I have been through multiple stabilizers - (lithium, Depakote, Tegretol, Klonipin, lamotrigene, verapamil, gabapentin, topirimate, buprenorphrine and nimodipine. I also have to supplement the thyroid.
>
> Chris A.Chris, what kind of results did you have on them, especially Topamax? Was it helpful, and how about the cognitive problems?
Anna P.
Posted by judy on March 14, 2000, at 19:23:06
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 13:47:06
Everytime I read your posts I'm amazed how similar our history is; I've also been on all the mood stabilizers you've listed and been treatment resistant to all. Are you having GI problems with the fish oil? (That's been my experience). You sound great after having just undergone ECT, have you had any negative experiences- especially memory? That's the only treatment being offered to me by shrinks now. I also am in massive denial about this disorder despite numerous hospitalizations for mania and depression- I'm convinced nothing works because I really have some incredibly severe personality disorder. I also started out with a SAD presentation when I lived in Minnesota- up in the spring down in the winter. I was part of a light study that really helped depressions; but I also tend to abuse substances which I realize screws everything up. Anyway I'm rambling, I'm glad you are doing better. Take care.
Posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 20:40:42
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by Anna P. on March 14, 2000, at 15:24:10
Anna, (Remember, your mileage may vary - you could get great results),
The Topomax was less than effective. My pDoc ended up sending me away for a inpatient consult. Lithium simply didn't cut it (I cycle and am mixed). Most meds just haven't seemed terribly efficacious for any length of time. I liked Lamictal because I had no side effects with it, but it didn't seem to work for me either. Nimodipine is extremely expensive and inconvenient with every four hour dosing. Verapamil is constipating, (over two years worth). I took a lot of Zantac along with Depakote. I also tried Clozaril which left me dangerously sedated. Buphenorphrine didn't do a thing. Perphenazine left me with signs of TD. What have I left out? Seroquel - somewhat sedating but not bad. Klonopin left me more depressed (if that is possible). Tegretol? - I don't recall what the problem was with it. If I'm purely low my light box helps, but overshoot of mood occurs easily in my case, which results in worse moods in the long run. At this point I might continue with maintenance ECT. We are just completing the acute phase and today has been good, so we'll see what my Pdoc says tomorrow.Hope you find the right combo.
Chris A.
Posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 21:52:21
In reply to To Chris A., posted by judy on March 14, 2000, at 19:23:06
Dear Judy,
Less than a third of the recommended dose of fish oil and it starts feeling like those fish are swimming back up! Dr. Steven Dubovsky, my favorite BP consultant, told me that a potential benefit of Aricept is that it could counteract some of those adverse GI side effects. I have that in writing or wouldn't believe it! I've just started the Aricept, so I'll
let you know in a couple of weeks. There are some slight short term problems with memory and ECT, but I don't plan on them lingering and they're not too bad. We didn't do any treatment closer than four or five days together. Now we're down to once a week. The idea of stabilizing the mood on Aricept and fish oil sounds attractive, but it's nice to know the ECT is there. At least it is convenient for me. I assume they'll use curare for the muscle relaxant now that I'm taking Aricept. Dubovsky also mentioned ziprasidone when I last saw him, but I don't know if it's on the US market yet.
If you find something that works like a miracle, let me know, since we seem to be so much alike. The only thing I have figured out is the sleep - Ambien works like a charm. At points I felt like I must be a really stubborn, pain-in-the-neck type person when the depression and dysphoric hypomania persist. Perhaps I should just tell my regular pDoc that I am here to aid him in character development.Take care,
Chris A.
Posted by Cam W. on March 14, 2000, at 23:45:23
In reply to Re: To Judy, posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 21:52:21
To All - I have recently read that the active ingredient for relief of bipolar disorder symptom, the omega-3-fatty acid are in very low concentrations in commercially available fish oil preparations. One has to take very high doses, resulting in much G.I. upset and a noticeable "fishy" odor exuding from the skin. I will concede that omega-3-fatty acids may relieve some of the symptoms of bipolar disorder, but I would like to see a few well designed studies to prove this. The studies I have read to date have had some serious methodological problems. Waiting with bated breath - Cam W.
Posted by Chris A. on March 15, 2000, at 0:33:55
In reply to Re: Main problem with fish oil in bipolar., posted by Cam W. on March 14, 2000, at 23:45:23
Cam,
Thanks for so kindly keeping us up to speed. I've had the misfortune (as have some others on the forum) to have tried the mood stabilizers rather thoroughly. That's why we're down to this fishy business. After having swallowed 720 mgs. of nimodipine a day for several months, fifteen capsules of fish oil should be a cinch - except for that little eructation problem. The limited studies on Omega 3s are definitely far from conclusive, but are very encouraging for those of us who have been desperately looking for help. Actually, I'm more concerned about mercury poisoning than the fishiness, so am careful about my source of oil. Hopefully a concentrated preparation of Omega3s will be generally available soon (anyone looking for a good business opportunity?!!). Aricept (donzepil) and ECT are not exactly first line treatments either. I'm also doing my trial under top-notch medical supervision. My consultant seemed hopeful than the donzepil might help with the GI side effects.Thanks for your dedicated caring and solid help to me and so many on this list.
Chris A.
Posted by Janice on March 15, 2000, at 12:25:39
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by Chris A. on March 14, 2000, at 13:47:06
Hello Chris,
I've been following your posting, and plan to buy the book you recommended by Dr. Mordimond. I haven't yet, but am curious as to what exactly is 'good sleep hygiene'.
In the past, I've tried to go to bed and get up at the same time every day. It's very difficult to follow but I do my best.
Just recently (last week-end), I started waking 1 1/2 hours earlier on my 'depressed days' of my cycle. So far I think it may work.
So is this good sleep hygiene?
Please keep us up to date with the ECT. I'm really hoping that this will give you the relief you need.
thanks, Janice
Posted by Janice on March 15, 2000, at 12:37:07
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder- Easy to Miss, Essential to Treat, posted by d'bora on March 14, 2000, at 6:24:40
Hi d'bora,
I explained in a thread below (the world must be round) about my family. How we all cycle seasonally, but 2 of us go manic.
the first cycle I developed was the SAD one(at 16). At 21 I developed a rapid cycling bipolar disorder.
I believe there is some indication that the earlier in life one develops bipolar (SAD and rapid cycling), often seems to determine the nature, course and severity of the person's bipolar illness.
Maybe you should read that thread. As Cam W says, ADs (and recreational drugs) can take the brakes off of a bipolar disorder that was previously lying dormant.
Good luck, Janice.
If i were you, depending on your age, etc. and other factors, I'd most definately keep an eye on it.
does that (howdy, eh) mean you are Canadian?
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