Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 860

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

TOBY~~~ can you help please?

Posted by Karen on October 12, 1998, at 9:33:51

Hi, Iv'e been on every SSRI's icluding effexor(37.5mg)
and all of them give me EXTREME insomnia. as well as neck/jaw rigidity ans teeth clenching.....UGH, so know I am on Serzone now up to 300mgs. and he upped my zanax from .05 3 times a day to 1 mg 3 times a day. Unfortunatly I am still overbreathing all day even after he upped my zanaz. he told me he can only go up once more to another half and if that doesnt do it he will switch. any ideas? Right no now I constantly over breath and and VERY depressed. Ive been in bed all weekend. #1 does the sssri really help with extreme anxiety? #2 Is there meds to take with one of the ssri to stop the neck thing and insomnia? BTW- I felt great emotionally on the effexor!!but the breathing continued! #3 do you think Klonop0in would work better? the psych. sugggested possibly trying this new med cexelor(sp) have you head of this? Im seeng him in 4 days and i would love your input!!! I mentioned buspar and he shook his head as well as a beta blocker and he said it would most likely push me into a deeper depression! any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!
Karen

 

Re: More info, please

Posted by Toby on October 13, 1998, at 10:19:32

In reply to TOBY~~~ can you help please?, posted by Karen on October 12, 1998, at 9:33:51

1. Were you on medications when the breathing difficulty first started? If so, had you been on the medication for very long -- was it working for the depression and then the breathing problem just hit out of the blue, or did the problem start soon after you got on medication? Does it continue even when you are on no antidepressants at all? I need to determine if it is a true side effect of the medications or if it is maybe a new component of the depression or even a whole separate anxiety disorder. The jaw clenching and insomnia are pretty clearly associated with the SSRI's.

2. You said the breathing problem continued with the Effexor even though the depression got much better. Did you also have the jaw clenching and insomnia with the Effexor? And was it Effexor XR or immediate release Effexor?

3. Let me assume a moment that the overbreathing is a separate anxiety disorder. SSRI's can be very helpful for panic disorder and social phobia, but if you are having the jaw clenching and insomnia, you are defeating the purpose by using those medications. Since the Effexor worked for the depression, perhaps your chemical imbalance is more norepinephrine related than serotonin related (although at only 37.5 mg, Effexor tends to be identical to an SSRI and the norepinephrine effects don't kick in until a much higher dose, so that's a little confusing to me). If your depression is related to norepi, then maybe an older antidepressant like Pamelor would be more helpful.

4. Celexa is more serotonin specific than any of the others you have tried, so I might be a little afraid they would cause the same problems with sleep and jaw clenching.

5. When you say the overbreathing occurs all day, do you mean it happens every moment you are awake or does it come and go? Does it get worse with stressful situations or in social situations (talking to strangers or friends, giving a report in a meeting, writing a check at the store, talking on the phone, eating in public)? Do you have other symptoms with the overbreathing like heart palpitations, dizziness, chest pain, numbness or tingling of the fingers or around your lips, sweating, shaking, nausea, choking, hot flashes, fear of losing control or falling? Can you remember the specifics of the first time it happened? Are you a worrier; do people say you drive them nuts with indecision or smothering your kids because you can't get the idea out of your head that something bad might happen to them?

5. Buspar is a fine thing to try. It can augment an antidepressant, hardly any interactions with antidepressants, non-addictive, few side effects. It does relatively little for pure panic disorder, but if the breathing problem is isolated and you have problems with muscle tension, worry, irritability, restless sleep, and feeling on edge all the time, Buspar would be worth a try. It used to be thought that once a person was on a benzodiazepine, that Buspar wouldn't work, but we now know that is not necessarily so and I would not deny a person the chance to try it based on a history of taking benzo's.

6. Beta blockers have a reputation of making depression worse and with Inderal that may be so in some cases. However, Pindolol and Atenolol are being shown to be quite effective for augmentation of antidepressants and may help the anxiety also. If you have a history of asthma, you can't take these. If you aren't having heart palpitations along with the breathing problem, I'm not sure beta blockers would do much, but as long as you are careful initially to start at a low dose and work up slowly so your blood pressure stays level, they couldn't hurt to try.

7. Another option is Nardil, an MAOI, which is highly effective for anxious depression, panic, etc. You have to follow a special diet (it really isn't too hard) or there can be really bad interactions, but some people respond to MAOI's and nothing else.

8. Have you eliminated caffeine, chocolate, smoking, OTC cold/sinus medications which might give you these breathing problems or cause anxiety? If not, do. Is your thyroid OK?

9. If I had you in my office, here's what I would most likely do: a) If we determine that the breathing is really a side effect of the SSRI's and the Effexor, I would probably try you on Pamelor up to 150 mg per day for the depression and if that didn't do the trick, go to Nardil. b) If we determine that the breathing is due to anxiety and not the medication or a medical problem, I'd try to figure out which anxiety disorder it is. If panic disorder, I'd try Imipramine, and if that didn't work, go to Nardil. If it's generalized anxiety, I'd put you back on the Effexor since that did work for the depression and add Buspar for the anxiety (and most likely switch to Klonopin because it's longer acting and you won't have interdose withdrawal and hopefully get you off the benzo in the future). If that didn't do it, I'd add Pindolol. If all that didn't work, then we'd get creative and look at Lithium, Depakote, an atypical antipsychotic (not because I'd consider you crazy but because sometimes a small excess of dopamine can cause strange symptoms of anxiety and a tiny dose of an antipsychotic will fix it), or even a stimulant (which sounds like it would make anxiety worse, but sometimes it works). That's all I can think of now. Happy to consider other info.

 

Toby!

Posted by Lisa on October 13, 1998, at 11:18:42

In reply to Re: More info, please, posted by Toby on October 13, 1998, at 10:19:32

You are AMAZING! :-D The amount of insight and info you give us is extraordinary, and I'm sure we all thank you. I know I do. See my posting on Unusual Neurontin Side Effect. When I first began Neurontin I had the same breathing difficulties, but it's resolved itself and I am now up to 900mg/day. I'm still not sure if it was a side effect or anxiety of beginning a new medication (guess I'll never know). I've always had a meds phobia.

Anyway, I always read your helpful posts and wanted to send a big thanks for caring so much.

Lisa

 

Re: More info, please

Posted by Karen on October 13, 1998, at 12:11:30

In reply to Re: More info, please, posted by Toby on October 13, 1998, at 10:19:32

> 1. Were you on medications when the breathing
difficulty first started? If so, had you been on
the medication for very long -- was it working for
the depression and then the breathing problem just
hit out of the blue, or did the problem start soon
after you got on medication? Does it continue
even when you are on no antidepressants at all? I
need to determine if it is a true side effect of
the medications or if it is maybe a new component
of the depression or even a whole separate anxiety
disorder. The jaw clenching and insomnia are
pretty clearly associated with the SSRI's.
> 2. You said the breathing problem continued
with the Effexor even though the depression got
much better. Did you also have the jaw clenching
and insomnia with the Effexor? And was it Effexor
XR or immediate release Effexor?
> 3. Let me assume a moment that the
overbreathing is a separate anxiety disorder.
SSRI's can be very helpful for panic disorder and
social phobia, but if you are having the jaw
clenching and insomnia, you are defeating the
purpose by using those medications. Since the
Effexor worked for the depression, perhaps your
chemical imbalance is more norepinephrine related
than serotonin related (although at only 37.5 mg,
Effexor tends to be identical to an SSRI and the
norepinephrine effects don't kick in until a much
higher dose, so that's a little confusing to me).
If your depression is related to norepi, then
maybe an older antidepressant like Pamelor would
be more helpful.
> 4. Celexa is more serotonin specific than any
of the others you have tried, so I might be a
little afraid they would cause the same problems
with sleep and jaw clenching.
> 5. When you say the overbreathing occurs all
day, do you mean it happens every moment you are
awake or does it come and go? Does it get worse
with stressful situations or in social situations
(talking to strangers or friends, giving a report
in a meeting, writing a check at the store,
talking on the phone, eating in public)? Do you
have other symptoms with the overbreathing like
heart palpitations, dizziness, chest pain,
numbness or tingling of the fingers or around your
lips, sweating, shaking, nausea, choking, hot
flashes, fear of losing control or falling? Can
you remember the specifics of the first time it
happened? Are you a worrier; do people say you
drive them nuts with indecision or smothering your
kids because you can't get the idea out of your
head that something bad might happen to them?
> 5. Buspar is a fine thing to try. It can
augment an antidepressant, hardly any interactions
with antidepressants, non-addictive, few side
effects. It does relatively little for pure panic
disorder, but if the breathing problem is isolated
and you have problems with muscle tension, worry,
irritability, restless sleep, and feeling on edge
all the time, Buspar would be worth a try. It
used to be thought that once a person was on a
benzodiazepine, that Buspar wouldn't work, but we
now know that is not necessarily so and I would
not deny a person the chance to try it based on a
history of taking benzo's.
> 6. Beta blockers have a reputation of making
depression worse and with Inderal that may be so
in some cases. However, Pindolol and Atenolol are
being shown to be quite effective for augmentation
of antidepressants and may help the anxiety also.
If you have a history of asthma, you can't take
these. If you aren't having heart palpitations
along with the breathing problem, I'm not sure
beta blockers would do much, but as long as you
are careful initially to start at a low dose and
work up slowly so your blood pressure stays level,
they couldn't hurt to try.
> 7. Another option is Nardil, an MAOI, which is
highly effective for anxious depression, panic,
etc. You have to follow a special diet (it really
isn't too hard) or there can be really bad
interactions, but some people respond to MAOI's
and nothing else.
> 8. Have you eliminated caffeine, chocolate,
smoking, OTC cold/sinus medications which might
give you these breathing problems or cause
anxiety? If not, do. Is your thyroid OK?
> 9. If I had you in my office, here's what I
would most likely do: a) If we determine that
the breathing is really a side effect of the
SSRI's and the Effexor, I would probably try you
on Pamelor up to 150 mg per day for the depression
and if that didn't do the trick, go to Nardil. b)
If we determine that the breathing is due to
anxiety and not the medication or a medical
problem, I'd try to figure out which anxiety
disorder it is. If panic disorder, I'd try
Imipramine, and if that didn't work, go to Nardil.
If it's generalized anxiety, I'd put you back on
the Effexor since that did work for the depression
and add Buspar for the anxiety (and most likely
switch to Klonopin because it's longer acting and
you won't have interdose withdrawal and hopefully
get you off the benzo in the future). If that
didn't do it, I'd add Pindolol. If all that
didn't work, then we'd get creative and look at
Lithium, Depakote, an atypical antipsychotic (not
because I'd consider you crazy but because
sometimes a small excess of dopamine can cause
strange symptoms of anxiety and a tiny dose of an
antipsychotic will fix it), or even a stimulant
(which sounds like it would make anxiety worse,
but sometimes it works). That's all I can think
of now. Happy to consider other info.
>>>> TOBY, More info.... I had my first panic
attack i was 8yrs and ended up in the ER they
dx'd anxiety and believe gave me benadryl. A
couple years ago my 7 yr almost died from an
Absess on his carotid(sp) atery. He was
transported by ambulance at 2 am to Syracuse
University Hospital for 2 weeks and then sent us
home with a nurse who came to our house 3 times a
day to give IV antibiotics. After that my
generalized anxiety became very bad ans not just
specificaly about the kids about EVERYTHING ie~
loosing a sneak, slipper huge startle response the
doorebell rings and I jump outa my skin. The
breathing has been very persistant on or off meds,
generally gets alittle worse wotj rapid heart
beat. sweating. this a.m I called the psych and
upped mu zanax to 4 times a day instead of 3. amd
told me when he sees me on friday he is going to
add something called neutontin(sp) to the mix.
YEs the neck thing contined on the effexor and
that's when he switched me to serzone. my dose on
serzone in now 300mg and Zanax 1mg 4 times a day
In a nutshell I feel the same as i did the first
time i walked into his office. Oh BTW- I took my
serzone without the zanaz and sure enough the
neck,jaw ans insomnia came back. We went out of
town for one day and had to take my sons paxil
(ADHD/anxiety disorder and dyscalculia) and his
ritalin and my serzone as well as the paxil
UGHHHHH well forgot my zanax. thats when the neck
thing kicked in. My other symptoms are being HUGE
worry. ie totally freak at 11pm if I cant find a
sneak, backpack, well you name it. 2 nights ago I
was frantic because I could'nt find my sons New
England Patriots glove. It isnt even snowing here
yet!!!! Not to mention worrying about the kids
homwork assignments, parties etc.

 

Re: Neurontin

Posted by Toby on October 13, 1998, at 16:05:37

In reply to Re: More info, please, posted by Karen on October 13, 1998, at 12:11:30

I just don't know about the Neurontin... I have used Depakote for intractable anxiety with good results and Neurontin is kind of in the same class as Depakote, so maybe your doctor knows something I haven't heard of yet. See Lisa's post above; she reports that Neurontin initially caused the overbreathing but has now resolved, so perhaps it will be helpful. As an aside, Lisa asked if Neurontin affected the lungs specifically: I think not; I don't know why SSRI's and Neurontin would cause that specific side effect, and the pneumonia was during a clinical trial so it had to be reported even though it most likely had nothing to do with the medication.
Please don't take your son's medication, even if it means you have to be off meds a few days when on vacation or whatever; the reason being that they can interact with each other sometimes and shoot up the blood level of serotonin and you can get really nasty side effects and even get toxic that way.
If the Neurontin doesn't give relief, talk to him again about Buspar or the Pindolol/Atenolol option. Good luck.

 

Re: Neurontin

Posted by Toby, A HUGE THANK~YOU! (m) on October 14, 1998, at 9:45:55

In reply to Re: Neurontin, posted by Toby on October 13, 1998, at 16:05:37

> I just don't know about the Neurontin... I have used Depakote for intractable anxiety with good results and Neurontin is kind of in the same class as Depakote, so maybe your doctor knows something I haven't heard of yet. See Lisa's post above; she reports that Neurontin initially caused the overbreathing but has now resolved, so perhaps it will be helpful. As an aside, Lisa asked if Neurontin affected the lungs specifically: I think not; I don't know why SSRI's and Neurontin would cause that specific side effect, and the pneumonia was during a clinical trial so it had to be reported even though it most likely had nothing to do with the medication.
> Please don't take your son's medication, even if it means you have to be off meds a few days when on vacation or whatever; the reason being that they can interact with each other sometimes and shoot up the blood level of serotonin and you can get really nasty side effects and even get toxic that way.
> If the Neurontin doesn't give relief, talk to him again about Buspar or the Pindolol/Atenolol option. Good luck.
>>

Hi thanks very much for all your info!! it was very kind of you:) I think you may have misunderstood my last post a bit..... I didnt take my sons meds. What Imeant to say was I forgot to take my Zanax along with the serzone and the neck thing came back. and when we returned the next day When I took both together my neck didnt hurt at all. Believe me I wouldnt even think about taking my sons meds.....I get chicken even taking my own!! Oh I found a web site that talks about the neurontin/GABA.
its http.//www.npadnews.com let me know what ya think!
THANKS AGAIN!!!!!!!!
Karen

 

While on the subject of Neurontin...

Posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 14:29:35

In reply to Re: Neurontin, posted by Toby, A HUGE THANK~YOU! (m) on October 14, 1998, at 9:45:55

Karen, I read that web page you gave on Neurontin and while it is possible it works for panic at such a small dosage as he implies, I have heard many other stories. My old doctor (who I just fired for telling me we had a personality conflict) told me a story of a woman he treated for alcoholism and panic disorder. He put her on Neurontin 900mg/day and her anxiety completely disappeared. She also found no reason to self-medicate herself with alcohol anymore. Now I don't know if that is an unusual case, but I have read that Neurontin does help anxiety. Check out this page: http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Gapapentin-bipolar.html. Unfortunately, I've also read that it doesn't. Since everyone reacts to medications differently, what might be a miracle drug to one person could be a nightmare to another. It's that hit and miss deal again.

Here is my personal experience with Neurontin in the 3 weeks that I've been taking it. I hope it helps anyone who is considering using this drug for either panic or bipolar.

I am currently on 900mg/day. My increase was gradual due to my phobia of taking new meds and the terrible side effects I get. The first 3 days on Neurontin, the only side effect I experienced was shortness of breath and hyperventilation, which disappeared as quickly as it surfaced. I am not sure if it was caused by the drug or the anxiety of taking the drug. Whatever it was, it is now gone. I experienced NO other side effects whatsoever, which for me is a beautiful thing. Now that I am currently being maintained on the minimum dosage, I have surfaced from my depression, feel more high-spirited, and concentration has improved dramtically. Although I am still on Klonopin for my panic, I've noticed a remarkable decline in my level of anxiety and am able to relax for once. Being bipolar, I'm noticing my moods begin to level. I don't cry at the drop of a hat, and my motor has also slowed down. The most incredible development, which I pray to God continues, is that for the past two nights I have been able to fall asleep without my thoughts racing uncontrollably. That horrible problem has caused me to suffer insomnia for years, and any relief from that is a miracle.

I still have a long way to go before I know if Neurontin will continue to stabalize my moods and help with anxiety. If it does, I may be able to eventually decrease my Klonopin, but for now I wait, see, and pray.

To leave on a very bright note, I've finally found some terrific help. She is a nurse practicioner in the mental health field and consults with a psychiatrist on all her patients. She can also prescribe meds. She is empathetic, sympathetic, informative, and special. At the end of our first session, she walked up to me, held my hand, and kissed me on the cheek. She was letting me know that she cared, she felt my pain, and she would be there to help me. I think I've found my earth-walking guardian angel. :-D

Lisa

 

Re:What the @#$#@ is going on? (M)

Posted by Karen on October 14, 1998, at 15:11:05

In reply to While on the subject of Neurontin..., posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 14:29:35

> Karen, I read that web page you gave on Neurontin and while it is possible it works for panic at such a small dosage as he implies, I have heard many other stories. My old doctor (who I just fired for telling me we had a personality conflict) told me a story of a woman he treated for alcoholism and panic disorder. He put her on Neurontin 900mg/day and her anxiety completely disappeared. She also found no reason to self-medicate herself with alcohol anymore. Now I don't know if that is an unusual case, but I have read that Neurontin does help anxiety. Check out this page: http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Gapapentin-bipolar.html. Unfortunately, I've also read that it doesn't. Since everyone reacts to medications differently, what might be a miracle drug to one person could be a nightmare to another. It's that hit and miss deal again.
> Here is my personal experience with Neurontin in the 3 weeks that I've been taking it. I hope it helps anyone who is considering using this drug for either panic or bipolar.
> I am currently on 900mg/day. My increase was gradual due to my phobia of taking new meds and the terrible side effects I get. The first 3 days on Neurontin, the only side effect I experienced was shortness of breath and hyperventilation, which disappeared as quickly as it surfaced. I am not sure if it was caused by the drug or the anxiety of taking the drug. Whatever it was, it is now gone. I experienced NO other side effects whatsoever, which for me is a beautiful thing. Now that I am currently being maintained on the minimum dosage, I have surfaced from my depression, feel more high-spirited, and concentration has improved dramtically. Although I am still on Klonopin for my panic, I've noticed a remarkable decline in my level of anxiety and am able to relax for once. Being bipolar, I'm noticing my moods begin to level. I don't cry at the drop of a hat, and my motor has also slowed down. The most incredible development, which I pray to God continues, is that for the past two nights I have been able to fall asleep without my thoughts racing uncontrollably. That horrible problem has caused me to suffer insomnia for years, and any relief from that is a miracle.
> I still have a long way to go before I know if Neurontin will continue to stabalize my moods and help with anxiety. If it does, I may be able to eventually decrease my Klonopin, but for now I wait, see, and pray.
> To leave on a very bright note, I've finally found some terrific help. She is a nurse practicioner in the mental health field and consults with a psychiatrist on all her patients. She can also prescribe meds. She is empathetic, sympathetic, informative, and special. At the end of our first session, she walked up to me, held my hand, and kissed me on the cheek. She was letting me know that she cared, she felt my pain, and she would be there to help me. I think I've found my earth-walking guardian angel. :-D
> Lisa


Hello AGAIN!!!
I ended up going to the psych. today and as you know, he said he was going to put me neurotin, Well guess what? He wrote the script for INDERAL I mentioned the neurotin and he looked puzzled!!! and mummbled something I couldnt understand~~~~~~~
anyway i cant even fill the damn thing before he talks to my GP!!! SOOOOOOO FRUSTRATED i cannot stand it!!!!! karen

 

Re:What the @#$#@ is going on? (M)

Posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 22:31:46

In reply to Re:What the @#$#@ is going on? (M), posted by Karen on October 14, 1998, at 15:11:05

> Hello AGAIN!!!
> I ended up going to the psych. today and as you know, he said he was going to put me neurotin, Well guess what? He wrote the script for INDERAL I mentioned the neurotin and he looked puzzled!!! and mummbled something I couldnt understand~~~~~~~
> anyway i cant even fill the damn thing before he talks to my GP!!! SOOOOOOO FRUSTRATED i cannot stand it!!!!! karen

Hi Karen :)

I think you and your doctor have a big problem in the communication department. He obviously doesn't remember his previous suggestions to you, and you're not calling him on his conflicting decisions. When he mumbled something you didn't understand, maybe you should have ask him to repeat it again and explain it in more detail.

As for Inderal, I haven't heard of it. Maybe someone else has some advice on that. Did you ask him what it was and what he hoped it would do for you? It's possible you may be feeling too overwhelmed to even question your doctor, let alone criticize him, but if my doctor mumbled something and then went on as if it didn't matter, I'd be demanding answers!! "YO, DOC!!! Speak up for I cannot HEAR you!" Heheh. :D

Would you believe my last doctor told me NOT to spend my time researching too much on bipolar? When I called him on that, he said that it would be in my best interest seeing that all the information on the web was wrong and misleading, not to mention that the books I've been reading are also wrong. Seems he thought he was the ultimate authority on this, but I think he wanted to keep me in the dark, did not want me asking the questions that I did, and just sit back quietly while he prescribed my medication and followed his commandments. At our last session he said we had a personality conflict and hoped we could get pass that. Now tell me, what kind of psychiatrist, an MD that treats people with all kinds of mental and personality disorders, could have a personality conflict with someone? That experience had to top them all for me, because I am so easy to get along with. A bit opinionated maybe, but always welcoming other opinions as well. Argh!! I know how you feel, Karen.

Lisa

 

Re: Karen and Inderal-- Dr. Bob, can you comment?

Posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 22:54:28

In reply to Re:What the @#$#@ is going on? (M), posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 22:31:46

> > Hello AGAIN!!!
> > I ended up going to the psych. today and as you know, he said he was going to put me neurotin, Well guess what? He wrote the script for INDERAL I mentioned the neurotin and he looked puzzled!!! and mummbled something I couldnt understand~~~~~~~
> > anyway i cant even fill the damn thing before he talks to my GP!!! SOOOOOOO FRUSTRATED i cannot stand it!!!!! karen

Karen,

Check out this page: http://www.rxmed.com/monographs/inderal.html
I don't understand why he's prescribing this drug for anxiety/depression. It appears to be a drug used in treating hypertension.
Maybe Dr. Bob can shed some light that I do not know about.

 

Personality conflicts & Inderal (not related :-)

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 1998, at 8:37:10

In reply to Re:What the @#$#@ is going on? (M), posted by Lisa on October 14, 1998, at 22:31:46

> Now tell me, what kind of psychiatrist, an MD
> that treats people with all kinds of mental and
> personality disorders, could have a personality
> conflict with someone? That experience had to
> top them all for me, because I am so easy to get
> along with.

Well, psychiatrists are people, too. You hope that
they don't have as many personality conflicts as
your average joe, but they're not perfect, either.
And if they have limitations, it's important for
them to recognize them.

Also, there's such a thing as liking a patient too
much, too... :-)

----

> I don't understand why he's prescribing this
> drug for anxiety/depression. It appears to be a
> drug used in treating hypertension.

Inderal (propranolol) is used both for hypertension
and also for anxiety, probably most commonly for
performance-type anxiety. For more information on
beta-blockers (this class of medications), but
not, unfortunately, on their use for anxiety, you
can take a look at Psychopharmacology Tips. Or
search around elsewhere.

Bob

 

Re: Personality conflicts & Inderal (not related :-)

Posted by Lisa on October 15, 1998, at 10:00:57

In reply to Personality conflicts & Inderal (not related :-), posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 1998, at 8:37:10

> Well, psychiatrists are people, too. You hope that
> they don't have as many personality conflicts as
> your average joe, but they're not perfect, either.
> And if they have limitations, it's important for
> them to recognize them.
> Also, there's such a thing as liking a patient too
> much, too... :-)
> ----

> Inderal (propranolol) is used both for hypertension
> and also for anxiety, probably most commonly for
> performance-type anxiety. For more information on
> beta-blockers (this class of medications), but
> not, unfortunately, on their use for anxiety, you
> can take a look at Psychopharmacology Tips. Or
> search around elsewhere.
> Bob

Thanks, Dr. Bob, for clearing up that Inderal question. There are so many drugs used to treat anxiety, and even though I have a handle on most of them, this one was news to me. I suppose there are new drugs treatments popping up all the time, making it impossible to keep up with (that's why we have you :-).

As for the personality conflict subject, of course doctors are people too. :D And I would be first to admit if there was a clash in our personalities. Unfortunately, I'd only been seeing him for less than a month, he could never remember what meds I was on when I showed up for my appointments, didn't take notes, was rude on the phone and admiited to me he had a bad phone personality that I had to deal with, and looked annoyed every time I asked a question (Whew! Long sentence). After I questioned him about the behavior was when he came up with the "P.C." :-} I never yelled at him or scorned his actions, but only asked "why?". So, doctors's being people and all, yes I agree, but I believe this particular individual had other problems.

On the other end of the spectrum which you noted, I've also come across the kind that could "like a patient too much." Never in the mental health field, though I did establish some close and caring relationships with therapists, but with my own GP. He became so involved with caring for me, that he began to treat me and discipline me as though I were one of his children. Had to find a new GP there (who again cares for me a great deal but never crosses the line). My old GP did phone me to apologize and I commend him for that.

Just wanted to explain here that I know and welcome my doctors to be "people." It's the God-complex I can do away with.

Lisa

 

Karen, Inderal/Anxiety Web Page!!

Posted by Lisa on October 15, 1998, at 10:42:03

In reply to Re: Personality conflicts & Inderal (not related :-), posted by Lisa on October 15, 1998, at 10:00:57

Hi again Karen,

Did some searching for you as Dr. Bob suggested and came across this page. It's very informative. Hope it helps.
http://www.tns.lcs.mit.edu/harp/archives/1995.03/0082.html

Lisa :-)

 

Lisa: I was'nt able to pull it up(M)

Posted by karen on October 15, 1998, at 12:27:59

In reply to Karen, Inderal/Anxiety Web Page!!, posted by Lisa on October 15, 1998, at 10:42:03

> Hi again Karen,
> Did some searching for you as Dr. Bob suggested and came across this page. It's very informative. Hope it helps.
> http://www.tns.lcs.mit.edu/harp/archives/1995.03/0082.html
> Lisa :-)

Do you think you can send it to me?
my e-mail is goldenpaws@webtv.net
THANKS!!

 

Re: Personality conflicts

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 1998, at 9:34:59

In reply to Re: Personality conflicts & Inderal (not related :-), posted by Lisa on October 15, 1998, at 10:00:57

> As for the personality conflict subject, of
> course doctors are people too. :D And I would
> be first to admit if there was a clash in our
> personalities... I never yelled at him or
> scorned his actions, but only asked "why?"...

When you first mentioned personality conflicts, I
took it to mean your personality and his just
didn't mix well. Maybe you took it to mean your
personality had too many conflicts? IOW, that it
was your fault? That may not have been what he
meant...

Bob

 

Re: Personality conflicts -- WRONG!

Posted by Lisa on October 18, 1998, at 21:28:40

In reply to Re: Personality conflicts, posted by Dr. Bob on October 16, 1998, at 9:34:59

> > As for the personality conflict subject, of
> > course doctors are people too. :D And I would
> > be first to admit if there was a clash in our
> > personalities... I never yelled at him or
> > scorned his actions, but only asked "why?"...
> When you first mentioned personality conflicts, I
> took it to mean your personality and his just
> didn't mix well. Maybe you took it to mean your
> personality had too many conflicts? IOW, that it
> was your fault? That may not have been what he
> meant...
> Bob

Now why did you snip out the way he treated me, not keeping up on notes, rude on phone, etc., and move right into where I said I didn't yell at him or scorn his actions?? Read that way, it DOES seem as though I took it personally. Well no, Dr. Bob, I didn't. There was no reason for me to take it that way. We did not HAVE a personality conflict because there was barely any relationship to begin with. And if you think I might be misreading this doctor, then you should be telling my husband that too, since he was present when all these things happened and left the office as shocked as I was. Plus, my husband does not have any mental illnesses, so he's not inclined to see things out of proportion.

Thanks for your input but either you were not reading my posts closely enough, or maybe I was not getting my point across clearly. Whatever happened, you need to keep in mind with a bullentin board like this, that there will be many patients who have or will have bad experiences with bad doctors. You can not defend incompetent dotors. There are some of us that can still spot a quack! :)

Lisa

 

Re: Personality conflicts -- maybe so

Posted by Dr. Bob on October 28, 1998, at 23:42:37

In reply to Re: Personality conflicts -- WRONG!, posted by Lisa on October 18, 1998, at 21:28:40

> Now why did you snip out the way he treated me,
> not keeping up on notes, rude on phone, etc.,
> and move right into where I said I didn't yell
> at him or scorn his actions?? Read that way, it
> DOES seem as though I took it personally. Well
> no, Dr. Bob, I didn't.

That's good. I was afraid you were feeling at
fault.

> There was no reason for me to take it that way.
> We did not HAVE a personality conflict because
> there was barely any relationship to begin with.

> Whatever happened, you need to keep in mind with
> a bullentin board like this, that there will be
> many patients who have or will have bad
> experiences with bad doctors. You can not defend
> incompetent dotors. There are some of us that
> can still spot a quack! :)

I see, it's clear now where you place the blame. :-)

I realize I'm swimming against the current here,
and I don't mean to be insensitive, but let me just
say that in theory it *is* conceivable that a
personality conflict was the problem. IOW, he may
have been a bad doctor for you because your
personalities didn't mesh, but it may be that he
may be a fine doctor for patients with different
personalities. Or he may just be a bad doctor,
period. It's hard to say without knowing more.

Bob


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