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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sigismund on July 8, 2018, at 2:10:19
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
> I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
Not the life you wanted or can easily accept, but not a life without strong feelings.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 8, 2018, at 5:23:29
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by sigismund on July 8, 2018, at 2:10:19
That might become a self fulfilling prophecy. That the depression that makes you think that way. From the outside you looked much better on Parnate and Abilify. You werent in remission but you were functioning. Not so many people reach remission. Especially not by meds alone.
Posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2018, at 18:16:57
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 8, 2018, at 5:23:29
Hi Scott - I identify with feeling empty and in despair. But I wonder, do you have any social supports - a 12-step group, a mental illness support group, a therapy group. I ask, because I still sometimes get so depressed that all I can imagine is suicide. But I am abel to reach out to people I've met in these sort of groups who make me feel less empty, more full. This has really been more effective for me that drugs, which only partly control the depression and do not hold me.
I understand that desire to isolate and hunker down, but could you set yourself one small social task a day - like go to the grocery store and converse briefly with the clerk (if only about the weather). When I am depressed and despairing, I really tend to isolate, but I've realized this just makes everything worse. Even severe melancholic depression ca be partly situational.
Maybe see a DBT therapist about concrete steps you can take to make things a little better.
I just turned 63 and I understand that feeling that life has passed you by. How old are you? But I go to AA and have seen people, including people with severe mental illness change their lives dramatically with the support of others.
I realize you are not an addict/alcoholic (though there are many people who go to AA for the social support who are not really alcoholics), but I believe there are groups for people with other forms of mental illness.
For some reason, I believe (maybe wrongly) the you live in NYC? These must be all kinds of social support groups in any big city.
You have my fullest empathy, hope an prayers.
Posted by SLS on July 9, 2018, at 11:19:01
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2018, at 18:16:57
Hi, BB.
I embrace everything you have said here. I greatly appreciate the time you spent composing this post. It is good to see in black and white your advice. Right now, I have available to me a volunteer "job" that allows me to be around other people with mental health challenges. I can do relatively easy work to pass the time and contribute or I can do nothing at all. It gives me a chance to be around people and socialize with understanding and support. It is more of a clubhouse than a business. It is modeled after the Fountain House facility located in NYC.
- Scott
> Hi Scott - I identify with feeling empty and in despair. But I wonder, do you have any social supports - a 12-step group, a mental illness support group, a therapy group. I ask, because I still sometimes get so depressed that all I can imagine is suicide. But I am abel to reach out to people I've met in these sort of groups who make me feel less empty, more full. This has really been more effective for me that drugs, which only partly control the depression and do not hold me.
>
> I understand that desire to isolate and hunker down, but could you set yourself one small social task a day - like go to the grocery store and converse briefly with the clerk (if only about the weather). When I am depressed and despairing, I really tend to isolate, but I've realized this just makes everything worse. Even severe melancholic depression ca be partly situational.
>
> Maybe see a DBT therapist about concrete steps you can take to make things a little better.
>
> I just turned 63 and I understand that feeling that life has passed you by. How old are you? But I go to AA and have seen people, including people with severe mental illness change their lives dramatically with the support of others.
>
> I realize you are not an addict/alcoholic (though there are many people who go to AA for the social support who are not really alcoholics), but I believe there are groups for people with other forms of mental illness.
>
> For some reason, I believe (maybe wrongly) the you live in NYC? These must be all kinds of social support groups in any big city.
>
> You have my fullest empathy, hope an prayers.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 10, 2018, at 6:09:12
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
> > Do you have a bucket list?
> Not really. Too depressed. No interest in doing anything except to feel better. My construction of a bucket list will depend on what things I become interested in once the depression has lifted.Well, then, I hope this lifts for you, soon.
Can you remember back to a time when you felt better... Can you remember any of those things you used to feel excited or happy or pleased or content about?
> > Running out of time for... What?
> Living.(((Scott)))
> > What would you like to do with your life from this point, if you were well?> Until last week, I was planning to get well and get a job in automobile sales.
Huh. Do you like cars? I guess you do? Why were you thinking about automobile sales?
> Now, I plan to live out my days trying to keep a roof over my head and avoiding depression and pain. I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
I resonate with that.
I don't know whether you will like this, or not, but when I maybe feel like some company but don't feel like people laughing at me or making demands of me or whatever... When I don't feel like leaving the house... I kind of get a kick out of these people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byva0hOj8CU
Posted by baseball55 on July 11, 2018, at 16:42:41
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » alexandra_k, posted by SLS on July 7, 2018, at 14:05:29
> Until last week, I was planning to get well and get a job in automobile sales. Now, I plan to live out my days trying to keep a roof over my head and avoiding depression and pain. I need to continue to process and accept that I will die while never having lived.
>
> That is a very sad statement. I feel very fortunate in that I did not experience depression until my late 40s, by which time I had raised children. had a long marriage, and established a professional career.Your problems with mental illness began (I believe) when you were much younger. But to say that you need to accept that "I will die while having never lived," is not a statement that moves you anywhere positive. Maybe a more spiritual approach would help.
Accept that my life was not what I expected or perhaps had hoped for, but I have had the courage and perseverance to face it.
Accept that I do not feel as well much of the time as I would hope, but I can focus on the little joys that come with living - the warmth of the sun, the antics of a dog in a park - whatever.
I don't want to sound like a Pollyanna and nobody was more resistant to this way of approaching life as me. But I have found that a mindful approach to living is more effective in combatting depression than any drugs I have tried. Trying to stay in the moment, cultivate gratitude and nonjudgmental awareness. As my (Buddhist) DBT therapist told me, "there is peace in the moment."
By nonjudgmental awareness, I mean being aware of things without getting angry, despairing, annoyed, frustrated. Just - I feel a sense of despair right now. Where in my body to I feel this? Just watch and be aware of the sensation - what thoughts does this feeling generate. As if you were an outside observer. The biggest danger to your life and health is to respond instead by thoughts (which I fall into periodically) like, I can't stand this anymore, my life is hopeless, I will never feel better, I'll die without ever having lived.
I'm sorry for the long post and maybe I am completely off the wall. I'm not trying to sell you on some philosophy. But my depression had spiraled so completely out of control that my psychiatrist (who was also my therapist) insisted I do DBT to learn to cope with (if not completely stop) despairing thoughts. I fought the DBT therapy and all it's focus on mindfulness at first. I didn't even really understand it. But now I pretty much get it and it really does help.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 13, 2018, at 14:21:10
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2018, at 18:16:57
My opinion is something along the lines of what baseball said. I would write your options down and try to think about it rationally. You are very depressed right now so your thinking is clouded.
New therapist? Hospital for a few weeks? Meds? (but you already do that) Supplements? Diet? A social worker? A class where you can make new friends? Reconnecting with existing friends? Deepen the relationship?
There are so many things.
Good luck
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 15, 2018, at 6:04:54
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 13, 2018, at 14:21:10
It sucks that you dont feel like doing any of these things when you are severely depressed. But if you dont it will just get worse.
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 9:32:37
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 15, 2018, at 6:04:54
> It sucks that you dont feel like doing any of these things when you are severely depressed. But if you dont it will just get worse.
I understand the wisdom in this, but depression often leaves me unable to get off the couch. I had a negative reaction to both Trintellix and Effexor. It looks much like too much serotonin. Perhaps I need time to let my brain settle after coming off Parnate. I hope that's all it is.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 10:17:57
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 9:32:37
No matter how big the reward is for getting up? BTW: Was Parnate really that bad for you?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 10:34:05
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 9:32:37
So if i stood infront of your door to give you ten grand, you couldnt get up and open the door?
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 12:15:55
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 10:34:05
> So if i stood infront of your door to give you ten grand, you couldnt get up and open the door?
I don't know what you want me to say. If I say yes, what would that indicate to you?
Parnate was a dead-end. I felt better on Parnate than I do today, but I felt it was worth the pain to gamble on finding a better treatment.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 12:32:00
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 16, 2018, at 12:15:55
> > So if i stood infront of your door to give you ten grand, you couldnt get up and open the door?
>
> I don't know what you want me to say. If I say yes, what would that indicate to you?I think yes means that you do have a choice. Its a hard one but my definition of "unable" is different.
> Parnate was a dead-end. I felt better on Parnate than I do today, but I felt it was worth the pain to gamble on finding a better treatment.
I see... I dont know what to recommend. What is your plan now as far as medication?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 12:41:23
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 12:32:00
I know that you are on a quest for remission but the truth is, we dont know how normal people feel. I would even say that some depression is normal.
I wonder if you have an unrealistic goal. I dont know how you feel with and without Parnate and how that would compare to me, so i dont want to judge you. Everyone is different.
Posted by baseball55 on July 17, 2018, at 19:21:43
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 16, 2018, at 12:32:00
>
> I see... I dont know what to recommend. What is your plan now as far as medication?
>I guess I would also ask if you have any plan outside of medication. I understand (believe me) to be in a depression so severe that getting out of bed to eat or shower seems impossible. But are you able to do small things? To walk outdoors, go to a store and buy milk? If so, could you maybe imagine doing just a bit more. Sitting outdoors? Meeting with a therapist?
I'm just asking, not judging.
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2018, at 8:56:38
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by baseball55 on July 17, 2018, at 19:21:43
> >
> > I see... I dont know what to recommend. What is your plan now as far as medication?
> >
>
> I guess I would also ask if you have any plan outside of medication. I understand (believe me) to be in a depression so severe that getting out of bed to eat or shower seems impossible. But are you able to do small things? To walk outdoors, go to a store and buy milk? If so, could you maybe imagine doing just a bit more. Sitting outdoors? Meeting with a therapist?Those are all good ideas. I feel a little better after finessing my medication. After making the adjustment, I was able to get off the couch and go food shopping. I had just about run out of food. I have some psychomotor retardation. I often stand in one place like a statue without moving a muscle. I can remain motionless and stare into space for a minute or two before moving on. This changes as a function of depression severity, of course. Without effective treatment or during a medication withdrawal rebound depression, I am vegetative. I have been in and out of psychotherapy. It has been helpful to deal with leftover issues regarding my psyche, but this doesn't make a dent in the depression itself. One psychotherapist with a PhD recommended that I get the depressive disorder treated before the therapy would be of any help. He told me that it would be of limited value because I couldn't think my way out of a paper bag. I was simply too vegetative.
> I'm just asking, not judging.
Thanks. I appreciate that. It happens sometimes that we try to understand another person's experience by using our own as a frame of reference.
Thanks for your concern and suggestions.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2018, at 13:27:16
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » baseball55, posted by SLS on July 18, 2018, at 8:56:38
Well playing it safe would be to get back on Parnate and either Saphris or Abilify. Or do you have any other good ideas? How did Saphris treat you?
Then you are in a mindset to do all the things we recommended with all of the positive effects and maybe you will come very near to remission.
But you can do stuff in your state right now, too. Youd even have to if you dont find meds thats gets you off the couch. I would go back to the old stuff (Parnate). It is pretty damn effective if i look at you before and now. Maybe thats all that you can expect from meds right now.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2018, at 13:28:37
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2018, at 13:27:16
I would go back to Parnate and Antipsychotic and only try stuff that you can take ALONG with Parnate.
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2018, at 14:03:00
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 18, 2018, at 13:28:37
> I would go back to Parnate and Antipsychotic and only try stuff that you can take ALONG with Parnate.
That is an option that would probably get me back to the point I was three months ago. That would be better than nothing, but I am looking for something closer to the remissions I experienced in the past. Right now, I think my brain is a mess from all of the dramatic changes in drug exposures. That's my fault. I was impatient. I should have taken more time to taper and discontinue Parnate. With a little luck, I won't have to go through that again.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2018, at 5:28:05
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on July 18, 2018, at 14:03:00
Its your life. What is left that you didnt try yet?
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2018, at 11:47:45
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2018, at 5:28:05
> Its your life. What is left that you didnt try yet?
I am less depresssed on Effexor 75 mg/day, but I feel zombified. My doctor wants me to reduce the dosage.
- Scott
Posted by baseball55 on July 19, 2018, at 17:46:50
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott? » baseball55, posted by SLS on July 18, 2018, at 8:56:38
Yes . I have been in that vegetative state. Parnate was the only thing that helped. Also abilify (but the weight gain was insane). I think others always have the urge to suggest ways to "snap out of it," even when none of that worked for us.
One difference, I think, between you and I is that I would "snap out of it" enough to get agitated and consumed with suicidal plans. I tried twice to kill myself and spent months in psych wards. But in those periods, I was able to talk and reach out.
I've been okay with only short-lived episodes of severe depression over the last four years. And I forget, sometimes, just how horrible it was and how hopeless I felt.
I just get concerned when you say things like you did in an earlier post (can't recall your exact words, but something about how you had to accept that this misery would be all you could expect(?))
These are the kind of thoughts that lead to suicide and I hope you don't kill yourself.
Are you ever suicidal?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2018, at 21:24:23
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by SLS on July 19, 2018, at 11:47:45
At least you are under the care of a doctor. You could also get on Skype with people despite your "vegetative" state. Possibly even a psychologist. I think you could use relieving conversations even though you may not be able to do alot of therapy. But thats just one professional opinion of that PhD anyway.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2018, at 0:05:09
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 19, 2018, at 21:24:23
You probably need to do more than just finding the right med to reach remission. Thats the nature of human beings.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2018, at 0:07:31
In reply to Re: Are you okay scott?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 20, 2018, at 0:05:09
> You probably need to do more than just finding the right med to reach remission. Thats the nature of human beings.
Temporarily you may reach it but finding the right med wont solve all of your problems. Be realistic
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