Psycho-Babble Social Thread 896495

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 20:56:44

I think I might be avoidant. Like seriously avoidant, the kind that wrecks your economic and social success.

Do folks talk about that here? There's only so much I can say, without being reckless with my privacy, and what's up with this, hi, who are you, glad to meet you, let's talk about me, but uh, this is kind of serious.... can't keep a job kind of serious.

Any experience with that around here?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne

Posted by Kath on May 18, 2009, at 21:02:09

In reply to I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 20:56:44

Welcome,

It's certainly a topic that 'fits'.

I haven't had experience with it myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if others might have.

It sounds like it's having a huge negative impact on your life.

Kath

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 21:11:25

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne, posted by Kath on May 18, 2009, at 21:02:09

> Welcome,

...

> It sounds like it's having a huge negative impact on your life.
>
> Kath

Thanks for the quick reply, Kath.

Funny thing is, I can't tell really tell if it's negatively impacting my life or not. At the moment, it's like freefalling. If the parachute opens, and I land in a better place, not so bad. If this is a book bag instead of a parachute, well... uh, nice to know ya!

And the things I avoid, not so good, in my mind, but rational people tell me they were not so bad, really. I can't figure if it comes down to personal and cosmic values, or if there's something "wrong" with me. That goes against the notion that "I'm okay."

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne

Posted by Sigismund on May 18, 2009, at 21:26:33

In reply to I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 20:56:44

I am not so avoidant as to preclude this response.

I have spent my life avoiding it, laughing all the way from the bank.

Being avoidant never helped me be cautious unfortunately.

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne

Posted by ricker on May 18, 2009, at 21:32:33

In reply to I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 20:56:44

> I think I might be avoidant. Like seriously avoidant, the kind that wrecks your economic and social success.

> Any experience with that around here?

Do you mean as in... social phobia? If so, yes, lots of posters have wrote of such.

Regards, Rick

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 21:48:50

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne, posted by ricker on May 18, 2009, at 21:32:33

>
> Do you mean as in... social phobia? If so, yes, lots of posters have wrote of such.
>
> Regards, Rick
>
>

Well, I am not the diagnostician, but I don't think it's social phobia. It's more about avoiding particularly difficult situations. Kinda like, "hey, I don't have to take this," and people are like, "take what?"

I'm actually somewhat adept socially, insofar as I can talk my way into things, and can get strangers to open up to me on demand. I don't socialize for socialization sake though. More like social indifference than social phobia. Had work that required social skills, and I more or less aced that, when I wanted to. It's situations where I've concluded in my mind that the social game is a farce - where people are pretending and I know there's a back story. And I'm a smart guy.

It's almost like a psychic injury, but I don't think I know people's games by way of psychic access - I know them from having solid mental skills. Sort of the way voice recognition algorithms work - I tend to remember what was said in what context, whereas others might focus more on the requirements of the current social context.

Am I obfuscating, or does this make sense?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Sigismund on May 18, 2009, at 22:19:17

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 21:48:50

>I don't socialize for socialization sake though

That cuts out a fair bit, doesn't it?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne

Posted by obsidian on May 18, 2009, at 22:23:37

In reply to I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 20:56:44

> I think I might be avoidant. Like seriously avoidant, the kind that wrecks your economic and social success.

oh yeah, I am seriously avoidant. I function, have a job, have friends, but if I could I'd probably stay home and avoid most things because I have a lot of anxiety. When things get really bad I start avoiding work, and well, you can see the problem there.

> Do folks talk about that here? There's only so much I can say, without being reckless with my privacy, and what's up with this, hi, who are you, glad to meet you, let's talk about me, but uh, this is kind of serious.... can't keep a job kind of serious.
>
> Any experience with that around here?

yeah, one of the primary reasons for the meds I'm on.
You're not alone.
-sid

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 22:23:42

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Sigismund on May 18, 2009, at 22:19:17

> >I don't socialize for socialization sake though
>
> That cuts out a fair bit, doesn't it?
>
>

That pretty much cuts it out. Period. Except for the incidental stuff.

I just can't remember if I figured out I was better off without it then learned to avoid it, or if I avoid it, then decide I'm better off without it anyway.

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 22:28:26

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne, posted by obsidian on May 18, 2009, at 22:23:37

> yeah, one of the primary reasons for the meds I'm on.
> You're not alone.
> -sid
>

I'm a bit aversive to meds anyway, but the problem I see medicating this particular syndrome is it's not a full-time thing. Meds regimes don't conform to the social dynamic that seems to trigger avoidant reactions. Some particularly good advice at a moment when I'm about turn toward the door -- or some fricking time off when I ask for it instead of a boss consciously practicing exposure therapy on me -- that might help.

What meds do you use for APD? Do you have other diagnoses, or is it primarily that?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Sigismund on May 18, 2009, at 22:38:01

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 22:23:42

Sometimes I find myself discussing the label on the tomato sauce bottle just for something to talk about.

I'll talk about anything, but I am still avoidant, especially of people.

I don't feel very safe.

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2009, at 22:57:55

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Sigismund on May 18, 2009, at 22:38:01

I always think I would be happiest living on a deserted island, or mountain cave, or something, but then I find myself posting here - which means... what?

-T

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 23:19:01

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2009, at 22:57:55

> I always think I would be happiest living on a deserted island, or mountain cave, or something, but then I find myself posting here - which means... what?
>
> -T


The range of things I'll tolerate is a bit more broad than the range of choices I have. i.e. I might not want to be away from people forever - I just want to be away from these people for now, but sometimes social contexts require all or none -- especially if it's a business setting.

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... Timne

Posted by obsidian on May 18, 2009, at 23:31:29

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 22:28:26

> > yeah, one of the primary reasons for the meds I'm on.
> > You're not alone.
> > -sid
> >
>
> I'm a bit aversive to meds anyway, but the problem I see medicating this particular syndrome is it's not a full-time thing. Meds regimes don't conform to the social dynamic that seems to trigger avoidant reactions. Some particularly good advice at a moment when I'm about turn toward the door -- or some fricking time off when I ask for it instead of a boss consciously practicing exposure therapy on me -- that might help.
>
> What meds do you use for APD? Do you have other diagnoses, or is it primarily that?

I don't carry the APD diagnosis, but it would probably fit. My current diagnosis is something like major depression in partial remission, this I see as the necessary code for the insurance company. I think my pdoc likes to view me as something along the bipolar spectrum. I don't know. I just know that the bulk of my complaints have been about the tremendous amount of anxiety I face (generally at work). The description of APD fits me well though. My struggle in large part is against my default position- avoidance.
funny, I was just talking to my pdoc today about how I need to skip some of my klonopin on days that I'm not so exposed to the overstimulation of life outside my home.
I've been reading this book a bit lately... "The Highly Sensitive Person"
nice to meet you :-)
-sid
>
>

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2009, at 23:34:16

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 18, 2009, at 23:19:01

> The range of things I'll tolerate is a bit more broad than the range of choices I have. i.e. I might not want to be away from people forever - I just want to be away from these people for now, but sometimes social contexts require all or none -- especially if it's a business setting.

I understand, and commiserate. I wish I could make a living without the challenge of social interaction. It doesn't seem fair that its prerequisite.

-T

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 19, 2009, at 0:07:29

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2009, at 23:34:16


> I understand, and commiserate. I wish I could make a living without the challenge of social interaction. It doesn't seem fair that its prerequisite.
>
> -T

Maybe it's not fair. I don't think I can make an ADA claim on my situations by any means, but from a basic humanity perspective, it seems we're sometimes forced into these situations against our will. It's a soft force -- economic and social, but it's the way things are.

What's fair, anyway? for who, when? It comes to weighing an inner sense of fairness against an unfair world. Not trusting my own sense doesn't seem to be part of the solution. Know where I'm coming from?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Phillipa on May 19, 2009, at 0:22:11

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 19, 2009, at 0:07:29

Voila ebay is my cure. Love Phillipa

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... TexasChic

Posted by Sigismund on May 19, 2009, at 0:53:27

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2009, at 22:57:55

>which means... what?

Maybe (like me) you're lonely and avoidant?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Timne on May 19, 2009, at 8:35:03

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but.... TexasChic, posted by Sigismund on May 19, 2009, at 0:53:27

> >which means... what?
>
> Maybe (like me) you're lonely and avoidant?

maybe her, but not me -- not since I papered my walls with this self-affirming wallpaper. It says "I'm not lonely, I'm not lonely, I'm not lonely, etc." all over my walls. I read it all day long. How could I possibly be lonely?

 

Re: I'd rather not say this, but....

Posted by Sigismund on May 19, 2009, at 16:55:22

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Timne on May 19, 2009, at 8:35:03

>I read it all day long. How could I possibly be lonely?

I curl up at night and read whatever's lying around, in this case Peter Padfield's "Himmler".

It helps me feel less need of other people too.

 

Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes

Posted by Timne on May 19, 2009, at 22:23:24

In reply to Re: I'd rather not say this, but...., posted by Sigismund on May 19, 2009, at 16:55:22

> I curl up at night and read whatever's lying around, in this case Peter Padfield's "Himmler".
>
> It helps me feel less need of other people too.

I was there, TV being the drug. I cut that out, and now get my fix with a popular online and mail-order movie service. Which is how I saw Angel Eyes last night, as we were chatting here about avoidant tendencies and as I was looking for meaning in my personal avoidant reactions.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0225071

Odd, I guess I'd seen it before, so I knew it was an avoidant-tendency flick, but I didn't think so much of that until I was into the plot a bit.

The flick explores a triad of avoidant personalities and contagion that affects three others.

Sharon (Jennifer Lopez) makes an emotionally potent date then casually breaks it after being up all night worrying about it.

"Catch" wades right into the potential relationship ("Your standing in my bedroom looking in my panty drawer," said Officer Sharon, laying in bed drinking coffee Catch brought her after she stood him up). But Catch is -- maybe this isn't avoidant, he doesn't avoid people until they try to make him confront his recent past, which he represses from his memory.

Then Larry Pogue Sr. avoids Sharon because, well, she had him arrested for beating on Mrs. Pogue. Unfortunately (not that unfortunate - they were all paid well for making the flick) Mrs. Pogue, Sharon's bro and his wife side with Pa, basically booting Sharon out of the family. That's contagious avoidance. By the way, it can really suck when an entire nation gets affected with something like that at once, and tries to avoid some significant part of its own people. There's one good reason to understand and find ways to resolve avoidant tendencies some times.

The sweet thing about this flick is that it explores the interplay between avoidant personality traits and social events.

Larry's conduct toward his daughter might never have been so avoidant if not for the domestic violence arrest. (I'll take the avoidance, if that's the cost. Nobody deserves to be beaten. Except maybe terror suspects hiding actionable intelligence about imminent mass destruction.)

Catch was driven to avoidant behavior by the tragedy, but we get the sense that he might have avoided family business before the family died, setting the pattern that became more serious avoidance in the face of trauma. Sharon seems to have second-generation avoidant traits.

Each of them is socially integrated in their own social world, but their avoidant patterns impair someone else's desire, and hence restrain the "community" from what might be optimal performance. We can stipulate an optimal social condition is one in which families are all loving and all forgiving, but that's not always the case. Sometimes we can strive for that, and some of those times we get what we want. Other times, circumstances and personal tendencies are just too strong, or there is too little direct, qualified support and counseling to ferret out the tangle of social and personal influence.

Now, in my case, as in Sharon's case with her father, efforts to resolve avoidant tendencies can instead exacerbate rather than resolve the situation.

What's the point? I'd rather avoid that ;)

 

Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes Timne

Posted by Sigismund on May 20, 2009, at 3:21:26

In reply to Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes, posted by Timne on May 19, 2009, at 22:23:24

I was, in my snobbish way, too put off by the presence of Jennifer Lopez to read your post, but am struck (to the extent I can concentrate) by...

>it can really suck when an entire nation gets affected with something like that at once, and tries to avoid some significant part of its own people.

 

Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes Sigismund

Posted by Timne on May 20, 2009, at 9:29:11

In reply to Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes Timne, posted by Sigismund on May 20, 2009, at 3:21:26

You at least read the middle of the post.

 

Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes Timne

Posted by Sigismund on May 21, 2009, at 21:48:41

In reply to Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes Sigismund, posted by Timne on May 20, 2009, at 9:29:11

> You at least read the middle of the post.

That's right! I managed to do that am I'm pleased you noticed.

I even reflected on your post (for what that's worth), thinking that the world that existed in say "To Kill a Mockingbird" was a lot less avoidant than todays one.

 

Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes

Posted by Timne on May 22, 2009, at 11:11:25

In reply to Re: Avoidant-tendency flick =) Angel Eyes Timne, posted by Sigismund on May 21, 2009, at 21:48:41

> > You at least read the middle of the post.
>
>
>
> That's right! I managed to do that am I'm pleased you noticed.
>
> I even reflected on your post (for what that's worth), thinking that the world that existed in say "To Kill a Mockingbird" was a lot less avoidant than todays one.


Boo was definitely an avoidant character, and the kids were steeped in avoidant behaviors when they rang his doorbell then fled.

I'd need to do some head-scratching to decide if it's worth considering murder an avoidant behavior, but that's what happened to the wrongfully convicted character. Our (fictional) sources who provide the account of his death aren't reliable, even in fiction, but didn't they say the defendant ran? So his solution, too, was avoidance.

Whether we are more or less avoidant now might not be an easy social trait to measure. The parochialism of those times facilitated some deep avoidance, but now our media world and (middle-)class expectations dictate routine avoidance.

Which stirs up another aspect of my symptomology -- I'm not avoidant by nature. Quite the opposite. Let it show, let it all hang out. But that doesn't fly in this world, and I don't fully appreciate the rules of class-based and culture-based avoidance, so I probably get triggered to avoid some situations I failed to adequately plan for.

Bottom line is, the most recent employer who claimed to my face I was God's gift to his future then asked me to cut my hours would only let me get personal time off -- to fit his hour-budget preference -- if I resigned my job. I assigned him a mental gymnastics test, which he grossly failed. He can now toss and turn at night to figure out why he let an employ leave who was doing exactly what he asked -- reduce my hours and take personal time when needed. Hell, I've contemplated doing the ultimate avoidant act on myself every day since. People's self-deception really causes me problems, because at the core, I face who I am and I usually gather enough clinically relevant information in the first days or weeks of knowing someone to make informed judgements about their motivations when interacting with me, as well.

.

.


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