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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by MissK on January 14, 2008, at 11:33:25
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » MissK, posted by sunnydays on January 13, 2008, at 23:05:58
My post was not about dependency. I know and understand that just about everyone that enters therapy will be dependent on it, at least for a time. Some longer than others, and some possibly even for life. I am still depdendent on it in that I do not yet feel ready to terminate it.
>And I don't think that any relationship can be free of slights and misunderstandings as you asserted.
Of the kind that don't create or instill resentments, yes, a relationship can be had without those.
>I hope that explains what I think.
Your post explains very well what you are dealing with in therapy.
>Have you ever read "In Session: The Bond Between Women and their Therapists" by Deborah Lott?
Thank you, for the book suggestion. And I wish you all the best in your continued therapy.
Posted by seldomseen on January 14, 2008, at 11:53:23
In reply to Re: Great post! » seldomseen, posted by MissK on January 13, 2008, at 22:24:04
It may be something that you never understand and that's okay. But it happens and it is a part of the therapeutic process for a bunch of us.
For me stopping my feelings would have been a very bad move on my part. I spent a good chunk of my life keeping everything in check and never really felt much of anything for anybody.
As it turns out, my therapist was the ideal person to put all of my crap on. He was there, he was consistent. Most importantly though, because he didn't bring any of his own baggage to the relationship, I could deal with my own. I could acknowledge how I felt, develop strategies to deal with the hurt that were me exclusive, act out, miss him, be needy - you know all that stuff that can really push other people away.
It was like practising in front of a mirror before a speech. Looking back on it, it was kind of cool.
Anyway, I'm really glad you are happy with the way your therapy is going.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on January 14, 2008, at 13:05:27
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + ran, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2008, at 23:27:04
I may feel defensive, but I should have Annierose's wisdom not to post that way.
It's not the most productive thing to do.
Posted by MissK on January 14, 2008, at 17:36:06
In reply to Re: Great post! » MissK, posted by seldomseen on January 14, 2008, at 11:53:23
Thank you, for that explanation Seldom. It adds to my understanding.
Had a T session today and I barely said anything. That's not happened before. It is entering a new phase. I am asking myself what do you say in therapy when it feels like you are doing okay. I've cut back to every two weeks. My T gave me some suggestions on what we might be able to talk about and how to proceed. I need to think on it and figure out what I need from therapy from here on in.
Posted by seldomseen on January 14, 2008, at 17:45:31
In reply to Re: Great post! » seldomseen, posted by MissK on January 14, 2008, at 17:36:06
Well, there have been times in therapy when I didn't have much to say because there wasn't that much to say.
In fact, there have been times when my therapy was just downright boring and I was like "why am I paying for this?"But, on the other hand, there have been other times when I did have something to say but wasn't saying it. I was just simply pretending it wasn't there.
Seldom.
Posted by antigua3 on January 14, 2008, at 18:29:27
In reply to Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant*, posted by MissK on January 13, 2008, at 12:12:31
> I admit, I don't get it. I don't get the agonizing over T relationships that I sometimes read about here.
>
It's OK that you don't understand it; if you've never experienced it, it is almost impossible to understand. I've been in therapy so long, I don't really remember if I ever felt this way about my T, but I do know in the present day, she represents the perfect mother to me. Not that she's a perfect mother by any means, but she has shown me what a good mother should be like and she has stood up for me in times when I needed a good mother.> I would be curious: has anyone here ever had dinner and met the family of their Ts at their house, or vice versa has anyone's T been to your house for dinner and met your family?
>
No, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happened after I finished therapy. I have met her family and she certainly knows and has met everyone in mine. I would invite her to dinner now, and I know she would accept.> Sure, we share very intimate things with the T, but at the end of session you LEAVE and they LEAVE with the exchange of money for the service provided and each attend to their respective lives outside of that office.
>
I used to believe this was true, and would throw it in her face at times, but for me, I had to get past the feelings that I was a paycheck, and once I did, marvelous things began to happen.
> I kind of see it as having a favourite school teacher; for the time you were with them they enriched your life and helped - they will always be special for what they did but you don't stay stuck in that grade, you moved on with the memory and specialness of what was learned and shared.
>
Have you ever gone back to visit a favorite teacher? I have and have become friends with them as well--dinner and all.> I know some will need or may want lifelong therapy, but even then I think it is important to make distinction of what that person is in your life.
I am very clear about the distinction of the "real" role my T plays in my life. She is in my life as much as I need her, and I know I add value to her life.
>I hear alooot of heartache here of T relationships, almost like relationships with a mother, father, sibling, lover, etc. And I just don't get how or why someone would allow a T relationship to get to that point or why a T would let it either. What purpose can that serve.
>
Well, what I've learned from my T is that yes, in the beginning--and possibly for many years or past termination for some--the T does play a stand-in role for others in our life. Our job is to have the relationship grow past that role because they can't "fix" what went wrong in our early lives, but they can model behavior and teach us to stand on our own, having gone through the experience of not getting what we needed to getting a version of it, and then learning to assimilate that into our new lives, and move on. It's never a replacement, because in going through the ugly parts of transference (which I'm working on with a pdoc), we go through the transference and then are hopefully able to resolve the original trauma. Resolving the initial trauma is vital and transference is a tool for helping some of us get there.> It really does bother me to see people in so much turmoil in what should be a healthy exchange - it doesn't sound all that healthy to me sometimes when I read of the heartache that goes on.
>
It should end up healthy in the long run, but it's a long, hard, painful and emotional journey. The key is opening oneself up to the pain and trusting our Ts enough to hold our hand through the journey to the other side.It took me many, many years to open up, to trust, and it wasn't until then that my real journey began, and I'm so ever grateful to my T for her willingness to hold my hand when I asked, to let me say cruel things when I needed to and to pull things out of me that needed to be said.
I love my T and she loves me. I know because she has told me a million times. There's nothing wrong with that for us because we have a relationship that works for us. And I believe her, and in her, and always will. She's certainly not perfect, but neither am I.
just my thoughts on what you posted.
antigua
Posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 19:10:56
In reply to Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant*, posted by MissK on January 13, 2008, at 12:12:31
* stands and applauds*
Thank you. Truer words have not been spoken. One of the reasons why I have pretty much left this board is due to so much of the agonizing I see over the t/client relationship.
True, some of what we experience in life does carry over to the T/client relationship, but seriously: No, you cannot a) sleep with your T b) cultivate a personal relationship with them c) be their son/daughter..the list goes on.
Thank you, MissK for the badly-needed reality check for this board.
Posted by muffled on January 14, 2008, at 19:36:21
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » MissK, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 19:10:56
Posted by muffled on January 14, 2008, at 19:42:41
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » MissK, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 19:10:56
Maria.....did you READ *ALL* this thread????? Every post?
Cuz I think it was well explained....:-(
Some of us need to do what we need to do. You think we LIKE to suffer pain? Its a LEARNING process. Maybe you were lucky and had an enviroment where you learned the basics, but many of us don't know.
Its hard, it hurts.
But in the end we grow and learn.
Have you noted how INCREDIBLY compassionate babblers are on this board for the most part? How incredibly ACCEPTING they are of others....?
Comes with the territory methinks.
We gotta be humble.
We have *it* inside, and we TRYING to deal with it, but its scarey and hard.
I could say more, but truly, its BEEN said, and if you guys cannot understand now, then you never will, and it is my beleif that this thread should end, cuz there's no understanding to be had.
Sadly,
M
Posted by sunnydays on January 14, 2008, at 20:01:10
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » MissK, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 19:10:56
No, I can't be my T's daughter, but I agonize over it and wish for it nonetheless. I am not delusional, and I don't think anyone else here is. I know what the reality I face is. I also know that I agonize over a lot of things that can't happen in reality. I'm sorry if you think that means I need some sort of intervention or reality check. I can't help my thoughts or feelings.
sunnydays
Posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 20:02:15
In reply to OK, I just gotta say....* » Maria01, posted by muffled on January 14, 2008, at 19:42:41
Yes, I did read the entire thread. There is nothing wrong with me adding my two cents as well. There is also nothing wrong with a dissenting opinion here are there, either. People are not always going to be in complete agreement with one another; it's a part of life both online and in real life.
I just get so tired of seeing posts where people torture themselves. If they want to get their therapists a gift, get them a gift. If they want/need to discuss something with them, then discuss it. Life is hard enough without endless self-torture. Just think of all that can be accomplished in therapy if the effort/energy/whatever spent torturing oneself over what to say/do in therapy were instead directed toward the therapy itself.
People will ultimately do/say whatever they want in the end, but that's just my two cents.
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 14, 2008, at 20:17:42
In reply to OK, I just gotta say....* » Maria01, posted by muffled on January 14, 2008, at 19:42:41
Amen to you, Muffly. You said it well AND you said it nicely. I'm proud to be your friend.
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 14, 2008, at 20:19:00
In reply to Re: OK, I just gotta say....* » muffled, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 20:02:15
You call it self torture, Maria. Many of us call it learning and growing. Obviously, you have a different process and that's fine. I'm glad it works for you.
Posted by seldomseen on January 14, 2008, at 21:21:02
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » MissK, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 19:10:56
I'm sorry that seeing how other people are handling their therapy made you feel uncomfortable on this board.
Personally, when I was going through similar things in therapy, I really felt all alone in it. I didn't understand it either and it was happening to me.
Obviously, I couldn't talk to people in real life about these shameful feelings I was having about my therapist!!!
I came across this board and found a whole lot of really good people who were going through or had already been through the same thing I was.
I found it very comforting and it did help me with my therapy.
I like to think we support each other here and people can talk about what they need to.
Seldom.
Posted by Daisym on January 14, 2008, at 21:54:12
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » MissK, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 19:10:56
It is hard to be civil when someone essentially says "I left because you were all driving me crazy. I'm back to help point out how you are all doing therapy wrong." If I misinterpreted your remarks, please forgive me. It is so hard to interpret the written word sometimes. I'm curious if you hoped to help anyone by your post or if you really believe it is all "just" that easy.
If it was, don't you think people would go to therapy and "just" talk? Do you really think people make it harder on themselves than they have to -- on purpose?
I don't get it. I really don't. I guess it is possible for other people to read what is written here and not see the struggles and pain as real or important. Self-inflicted...feels like such a harsh judgement. And I really don't understand why it is so important to write stuff that makes people feel bad or sad or ashamed. So you'd make different choices - good for you. We aren't all so capable.
This thread had been an interesting discussion of very different views up until this point. Now I feel belittled and criticized, which is exactly why I post instead of talking about this stuff IRL. Just my opinion, of course.
Posted by annierose on January 14, 2008, at 22:06:46
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » Maria01, posted by Daisym on January 14, 2008, at 21:54:12
I couldn't agree with you more Daisy.
Therapy is hard. There's no doubt about that. Even our therapist would agree.
I'm trying not to react to this thread any further. The writers, like you, speak for so many of us that are not as good as expressing our hurt feelings in the written word.
Posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 22:28:46
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » Maria01, posted by Daisym on January 14, 2008, at 21:54:12
Um, that was not the reason why I left. I left for a lot of reasons. If you're so sensitive that you personalize everything like that, then that is something you need to deal with.
Just because my opinion on things/reason for leaving differs from what others deal with doesn't make them any less valid. I have many reasons for leaving this board; the therapy/client agnst was only one of them. The rest are reasons that are personal to me and to me only. They're not up for public discussion. Nothing personal. Get over it.
If you're feeling belittled or ashamed by a difference of opinion, remember that it's a part of life. If I ran and hid everytime someone's view or opinion differed from mine, I would get nothing done.
People's opinions are different, as are their choices. It's called life.
Posted by happyflower on January 14, 2008, at 22:35:01
In reply to Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant*, posted by MissK on January 13, 2008, at 12:12:31
All I know is that being on the boards, were mostly supportive when I had my transference issues, but I also allowed it to fed into the over importance of the T. I think this is something I learned from here, and I jumped on the wagon and started to want my T to be something he couldn't be.
Now that I am in therapy with a very caring T, but who has very defined boundaries, I don't miss him on vacations, he has had 2 already, and I see him nnweekly. We deal with the therapeutic relationship if there is a misunderstanding, but he doesn't pretend to be my father, lover, child or anything else but my T, the relationship isn't or main focus. I rarely think of him outside of therapy, I am thinking about me and what I need to do to recover, not overanaylizing every move and word my T does. There is a huge difference now. I have made more progress in 5 months than I have in 2 1/2 years of therapy. The difference is my main problem isn't within the therapy relationship.
I think on Babble boards there contains a "special" group of people who are unique to therapy itself. A lot of people don't think about therapy so much, aren't on message boards, and they still progress, but I wonder if makes one less dependent on the T and the importance of the future of the relationship. I believe for me, babble taught me how to be dependent on my old T and to analyze every aspect of what happens in the therapy hour. Now I tend to do that less, but yet I spend about 75% less time here now. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
Posted by Daisym on January 14, 2008, at 22:40:47
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant*, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 22:28:46
Perhaps. Life is hard, no doubt. But sometimes hiding behind the phrase "difference of opinion" simply means that kindness has left the room.
I guess I'm old school - I tend to think people are doing the best they can at any given moment. Even people in therapy.
Posted by sunnydays on January 14, 2008, at 22:43:24
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant*, posted by Maria01 on January 14, 2008, at 22:28:46
You didn't respond to Daisy's point that most people she (and I) know would never go out of the way to make things hard on themselves. I'm curious as to why. If only it were as easy as simply saying, "I'm not going to agonize over my relationship with my T anymore," I would have stopped agonizing within days of starting. But I have made that promise to myself thousands of times, and it is just not that easy. I really wish you could see that. To me, saying otherwise feels like the accusations some misinformed people make that one can rid oneself of depression just by trying harder to be happy.
sunnydays
Posted by muffled on January 14, 2008, at 22:45:18
In reply to Re: Agonizing over T Relationships *trigger + rant* » Maria01, posted by sunnydays on January 14, 2008, at 22:43:24
Its time to stop OK?
Cuz it just causes more hurt :-(
M
Posted by sunnydays on January 14, 2008, at 23:11:42
In reply to OK OK OK, we have misunderstanding., posted by muffled on January 14, 2008, at 22:45:18
I'm sorry muffled. But there are some things I would truly like clarification on. I am feeling like there is something vital that is not being understood, and I'd really like to work through this misunderstanding. Take care of yourself. Maybe not read any more of this thread? I know that threads like this sometimes really upset you because you are such a caring person. I don't want to see that. But I also want to stand up for my point of view, which I feel is not being understood.
((((muffled))))
sunnydays
Posted by happyflower on January 14, 2008, at 23:37:22
In reply to Re: OK OK OK, we have misunderstanding. » muffled, posted by sunnydays on January 14, 2008, at 23:11:42
Everyone can have their own view on this and should be allowed to voice it, whether or not the majority agrees. But not everyone will understand the other point of view for various reasons, we all are different and are in different stages in therapy and in our lives. Respect should be given for "all" view even if they don't agree with our own.
Posted by star008 on January 15, 2008, at 0:01:30
In reply to Re: OK OK OK, we have misunderstanding. » muffled, posted by sunnydays on January 14, 2008, at 23:11:42
The problem here is that this post is about judgement and looking at other people's therapy experiences.. Lucky people who have never had to think about a T relationship and were able to keep things all clear and logical in their minds. I don't agonize anymore but I used to.. It is real.. Even though I knew the truth in my head, my heart felt differently. Please understand that some of us have never let anyone get close to us..
well.. if you don't get it, you just don't get it and all the talk in the worldwon't help.This is one of the most insulting threads I have ever read.
Posted by muffled on January 15, 2008, at 0:23:52
In reply to Re: OK OK OK, we have misunderstanding., posted by star008 on January 15, 2008, at 0:01:30
>Please understand that some of us have never let anyone get close to us..
*AH! Duh, thats IT Star! I have never ever said much bout myself EVER, to ANYbody. It was SO HUGE to say anything to T. To let her see inside me. My 'prime directive' of life (yeah...star treck!!!LOL) was to HIDE at all costs myself.
I still find it VERY hard to talk about myself, even in T. I am ashamed of so many things. My ikids like my T. I am doing as well as I am due to my T's everlasting patience, which I still worry will run out!!! I still worry bout allowing attachment, but T says we attach in life to others. She say its not a bad thing, but a good thing. I have to learn that I won't necessarily get rejected if people 'see' me. Its is so important that she took such time and caring, that she bent over backwards to try and help me to trust her. She is a good person I beleive. She's got a good heart. And she has seen some of whats inside me, and she hasn't rejected me. She just keeps treating me the same. I find it all so confusing. Inexplicable. WHY does she not look upon me with disgust? But she doesn't. I think I starting to beleive her. She says I NOT gross, that its lies. But its all I have ever known. Its hard to understand so much.
*I* am not attached to my T, not at all, I think its not necessary...but my Ikids are......and they the ones who need help....
Its all so hard.
But I am thankful that I feel I am making progress.
I am thankful to my T.
I think she is good at what she does. Not perfect, she says that herself. But for me, she has done good.
I care bout my T, she cares bout me.
And someone posted bout dinner. I LIKED that. One day I will have my T and her family to supper at my clean organized house. NOW that will be nice! Makes me smile it does! :-)
Thanks for making me think star, you do that alot! ;-)
M
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