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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 189 to 213 of 241. Go back in thread:
Posted by kindgirl on September 19, 2004, at 14:55:48
In reply to Re: my T » Jadah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 12:38:50
Jadah,
My heart is in agony with you in this!! I have read everything so far, and I have been thinking about it a lot.
I think you need to cut off all communication with him as soon as possible. He is just stringing you along. No matter HOW wonderful he is...HOW great a therapist he is, or how great a lover he is, you are torturing yourself by prolonging this. I am so sorry.It is not for me to tell you what to do...but it is like watching a dog get hit by a car over and over again. I really believe in the bottom of my heart that this will just hurt you more, and I don't want that! Dump him for good. If he is meant to be for you, then it will work out. You can't sit and wait for him the rest of your life. I know, I have been there with a married man before. It just prolonged my agony by hoping we could get back together. :( He never left his wife...my dream never did come true...
I just hate to see you suffer so. I hope you can use your anger to start taking really good care of YOU...find another therapist as fast as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Transition over to the new therapist gradually.
No matter how great it was...what happened was WRONG. He overstepped the line. That is the bottom line. If you can pull back and look at this from an observing point of view, you would agree. The problem is your heart is broken and you love the man. That is understandable.
Thanks for continuing to write, vent, post...my prayers are with you today. I care for you and don't want to add any more pain to you. I just want the best for you.......
Posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 20:57:01
In reply to been watching this thread..., posted by kindgirl on September 19, 2004, at 14:55:48
thank you for your feedback. I do agree that I need to find another therapist.... I think I might have someone in mind. I would like to try a few sessions with him first (or with whomever) before I leave so it is a smooth transaction. Things I have thought about that concern me.... will my insurance cover me seeing two therapist even if it is short term... I wouldnt want my T to find out Im leaving that way. Im afraid I will constantly be comparing a new therapist with mine now, and in that sense they could never win. Will I seduce/persue a new therapist or hurt from overwhelming transference and impending rejection? Can they give me the love that my T is (holding me when I cry, slipping a tear or two when I talk about something tragic in my life, giving me extra time if I need it, calling me outside hours when Im upset....hugging me after, during session. I know I cant expect an "I love you" from another therapist. To stay with him on a theraputic level means hurt, to leave means the hole in my stomach will never get filled. Are you guys starting to see that Im not as together as you thought I was. Whats really weird is that my T and I could literally be colleagues. Professionally we are on the same tier. I just chose to step out of this feild for awhile. We both agreed that we have more talking to do. Ill keep you all posted. Live in my drama....dont create your own.
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 21:08:18
In reply to Re: kindgirl, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 20:57:01
Im not even sure that I could talk to another proffessional about my situation without them trying to report him. I live in a small town. Everyone in the mental health community knows that I was seeing my T at the agency and then left to go with him when he went private. People would figure it out and I dont want him to get in trouble and lose his lisence. I want a professionals opinion but without fear so I can be honest. That is why I wanted to talk to Dr.Bob., I need someone who could be impartial. I would really like to find out some statistics, so I know that this does happen to other people and IM not alone. I am thankful for the support that I get here from you all. Sorry about my other message the night I was drunk. very bad day.
Jadah
Posted by steelmagnolia25 on September 19, 2004, at 21:29:53
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 21:08:18
Jadah,
I've been reading your post from the very first and my heart goes out to you. I experienced a very strong mutual attraction to my ex-T and I used to agonize about the fact that we couldn't have a personal relationship. At one point he terminated me (somewhat similar to Susan's term.) because he wasn't sure how to handle my feelings. I went crawling back to him 2 weeks later and we continued therapy until I could find someone new. Even then, I felt heartbroken for months and now I still do the inevitable comparisons between old and new T.
I'm posting to you now just to say "thank you" for the incredible insight to your situation. Now that I have some distance from my ex-T coupled with your posts I thank God that we didn't begin a sexual relationship. I know I would be suffering right along with you in this. Without your posts, I'm not sure I would still have the strength to stay away from him or not contact him. THANK YOU.
I hope that you are able to find a new T and that with time and distance away from your current T you will be able to make other decisions regarding your relationship and whether or not to tell your new T about him. I wish you the best. Please know that many of us out here are silent but cheering you on in our hearts.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 21:42:53
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 21:08:18
Jadah, my analyst shocked me by saying that it happens to about 3000 people (mostly, but not all, women) every year. Also, any future therapists cannot report him- only you can do that, if you choose to. They are bound by a sacred trust to keep everything you tell them 100% private.
Posted by pegasus on September 19, 2004, at 22:15:11
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 21:42:53
Just wanted to clarify that this isn't completely true. In most states in the US, therapists are legally and ethically bound to maintain the confidentiality of their clients within certain limits (e.g., not in cases of imminent suicide or homicide). And Pfinstegg is right that reporting a colleague for illegal and unethical behavior is not usually enough of a reason to breach that confidentiality. So, if they reported the situation in any way that breached your confidentiality, then you could sue them. But it's possible that they might think up a way to report your T without actually breaching your confidentiality.
I don't think a good T would do that, because it would obviously negatively affect your therapeutic relationship with that person. But technically it's possible. I think it's something you might want to keep in mind.
pegasus
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 22:38:22
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by pegasus on September 19, 2004, at 22:15:11
Pegasus is right- the only exceptions, legally, are if the therapist feels like there is an imminent danger of suicide or homicide. But, it's true- you live in a small town where the therapists probably know a lot about what goes on. When you find someone you want to work with, it would probably be very reassuring to get the question of confidentiality about what happened right out on the table. It really is a big topic you'll need to spend a lot of time working through, and you do need to feel certain that the therapist you choose will keep 100% confidentiality.
Posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2004, at 0:46:40
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by Pfinstegg on September 19, 2004, at 22:38:22
Very good advice given above. I just wanted to add that if you want to check the licensure of a new or current T, you can check with your state's licensing board. My state actually has this service available online. Although none of the sanctions specifically say they are for a sexual relationship (to my knowledge), there are many inappropriate "dual relationships" that to me seem suspect. So, although the 3000 number is not one I can confirm, I can tell you that it does happen, and more than you might think. Statistics I saw in a class a few years ago (sorry for being vague, but I never remember the details, just the big picture, and don't have my notes handy) confirmed that inapprorpriate sexual relationships happened almost more than any other ethical violations.
I'm glad you have a new T in mind. I agree that checking out the confidentiality up front is very important. I'm sure this will be very scary. But a good and professional T will be able to handle helping you with this situation. If he or she feels that it is too "close" due to his or her own professional or personal ties to your T, then that also should be stated up front.
I wish you well. This must be so incredibly difficult. Either situation...boundary violations by a T or a devastating affair's end would be difficult enough, but having them so intertwined...I can't imagine how confusing and hurt you must feel.
Please put yourself first in your decisions. Ultimately, you are the one who has been with you your whole life. That has got to count for something...
Be well,
gg
Posted by Jadah on September 21, 2004, at 2:28:12
In reply to Re:what if..., posted by gardenergirl on September 20, 2004, at 0:46:40
I have the biggest smile on my face right now. I just feel so supported and cared for, its nice. You all have such good advice and input. Im also glad to hear that I may have helped some of you. Well... update. Tonight I saw my T at his office after hours. I had been crying on and off all day and I told him that he's right, we still have a lot to talk about. I cried like a baby but believe it or not....so did he! We held eachother, talked and cried for three hours. The end of our affair was a loss for both of us, even though when Im angry I rant and rave and would say otherwise. He held me crying and said he was so torn, that he loves me and he never meant to hurt me. Its a learning experience. I have to learn to tolerate my feelings. Relationships end everyday. I KNOW he loves me and cares about me and I know that he feels terrible for hurting me. He said he would never leave me but if I decided to go he would be sad but would understand and would want the best for me. It was so nice to be in his arms. Nothing happened sexually, other than him kissing my forehead, stroking my hair and face, and holding and kissing my hand. His body was "sexually reactive" but he did not make any moves so as not to confuse me even more. He told me he wanted to take a walk with me and sit under the stars at a special place that he goes to think. Sounds sappy, and yes he is a romantic. Neither of us could say that we would NEVER again be together sexually. He said that is part of the problem. It feels good just to be held. It also meant so much to me that he cried like a baby in my arms. I know he loves me. I believe him when he says it- if he didnt mean it he doesnt have to say it at all. He certainly knows that he doesnt have to work that hard to have sex with me (did I mention hes young and hot??) I dont know if I could leave him for another T. He goes above and beyond what he has to for me when Im in a bad way. Other therapists wouldnt go the extra mile. We have literally been through life and death situations. Five years of bonding and trust. He is not like any other man I have known. He ruins that whole idea for me that all men are scum. I know, I know...I am counterdicting myself from previous threads. I was angry, hurt. Not to say that I am still not at times but Im healing. Tonight really helped. We left his office at 1am. Gosh, I cant believe those statistics. You just never hear about it, but I did know that sexual affairs were the #1 reason therapists lose their lisence. I love him soooooo much. He has given me more love, attention, support, consistency, understanding... than anyone in my whole life, M/F. He did hurt me, but I have to confess that in retaliation I have hurt him too. He even goes to the hospital with me after my procedures when I cant drive (my parents wont even do that). It still hurts, a lot knowing he still goes home to his wife at night even if he does love me. Ive never been in love before, but Ive heard that love hurts. I always have to find out things the hard way. Not sure right now about getting another T. We will see. As always, thank you all for your continued support. I look forward to coming here. Take care all. P.S.- I still DO NOT RECOMMEND crossing the line sexually with your T. Stick to your fantasies, there's a reason why its called boundaries.
Jadah
Posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 1:46:21
In reply to Re:Im smiling right now..., posted by Jadah on September 21, 2004, at 2:28:12
Hi, I just read this thread and really feel for you and your pain.
I just want to relate to your feeling that you will never again find a therapist who will go the extra mile for you.
I disagree. I've read of several therapists on this board who seem to go the extra mile (Daisy's comes to mind...). And I know that my therapist did many of the things that yours did...held me when I cried if I asked her to, let me call her whenever I needed to, (even nightly for a while when I was really in a bad place), we hugged at the end of sessions if I initiated it, and so on. I opened up to her in a way that I have never opened up to anyone in my entire life. I trusted her with feelings that I have never trusted anyone with. She was very focused on the real relationship that we had/have, though we dealt a lot with my transference. She was the most amazing therapist I have ever had. She went the extra mile over and over and over again. She cared/cares deeply for me and sometimes would tell me that she loves me. There was never anything sexual about our relationship. Maybe that's what made touch in our therapy - hugging afterwards and once in a while her holding me - feel so good and safe to me (as an incest survivor).
I no longer see her because I left the country where I was living, though we are still talking on the phone as I am working to decrease my dependency on her...gradually our phone calls will decrease, at a pace that feels comfortable to me. (though she has said she would gently push me a bit if needed) I love her to pieces.
I had 4 therapists before her, all but one of them "long term" (2 years or more). One short-term therapist hurt me deeply and was emotionally abusive. The others were all very good, but no one was like her. I don't know if I will find anyone like her again but I do know there are others out there like her.
I just wanted to say this because there ARE amazing therapists out there who will go the extra mile, who will do many of the things that your therapist did, but without the critical boundary violation of having sexual relations. They DO exist.
I'm not saying that you will find a relationship just like the one you have with your current therapist, but if I understand correctly, you don't want a similar one (where sex is involved).
As an aside, I once had an affair with a married man, before I ever started therapy, in my early 20's. He did leave his wife for me. And then you can guess what happened...he left me for another woman after two years. Men who leave their wives for another woman often do that. They leave again and again and again.
On another note, I recently skimmed through a book at the library that was about sexual relationships between therapists and clients. I cannot remember the name. But an entire book was written about the issue.
I'm so sorry for your pain and glad you are feeling better. Maybe this meeting you just had with him was good closure for you?
LG
Posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 13:49:52
In reply to Re:Im smiling right now..., posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 1:46:21
P.S. the name of the book is, "the Intimate Hour: Love and Sex in Psychotherapy," author's last name is Bauer
Posted by pinkeye on September 23, 2004, at 13:45:06
In reply to Re:Im smiling right now..., posted by Jadah on September 21, 2004, at 2:28:12
Hi Jadah,
Good to hear that you are all smiling and happy. But I feel going to a new therapist would be the first step. Please try to find someone new and you will be able to resolve all these issues slowly.
Pinkeye.
Posted by Toph on September 24, 2004, at 15:08:40
In reply to Re: my T, posted by Jadah on September 19, 2004, at 6:19:56
Jadah, I don't know how long this thread has existed and I don't always read with the best comprehension, but as I understand it your therapist had sex with you. You have received support on your belief that this is wrong. It is indeed wrong despite any mutual consent the two of you may have had at the time. His actions are unethical and may be crimminal given the conflict of interest and possible deminished capacity you had as his patient. If you become angry someday with what happened you may want to have his license removed as LG04 suggested. I don't know if this occurred in treatment or after, but that shouldn't matter. In my state, for example, a licensed social worker is prohibited from having a sexual relationship within 2 years of working with a client. I strongly suggest that you save evidence of the Monica variety so that you can sue his *ss some day. While making a complaint that will end a therapist's career may be difficult, you should consider that you may not have been his first victim and assuredly you will not be his last.
Posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:39:16
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on November 20, 2003, at 21:52:38
I am in much need of support. My relationship with my T for the last year has been, as you know, interesting. I have decided to seek out another T and I am going to talk to mine about it. If our relationship continues to be intimate or sexual, well at least I wont be his client. I find myself hiding things from him or not being completely honest. That is not going to help me, I need a therapist. More times than none when we get together we do everything but talk about my issues. I do enjoy him and I do love him and I know he feels the same. If we are to continue any type of relationship it will have to be outside of therapy. I know you all are probably tired of hearing my story and giving me advice, but my decision to find another T is tremendous progress for me. I think in time all else we have will fade away. My experience has been one of mixed emotions and roller coaster rides but I have learned a lot about who I am and what I want. I have also started dating another man, which is also progress, it shows that I am more willing now to work towards independancy from him. I regret nothing. It is another chapter in my so called life, without it... my book could not be nearly as complete. Live, Love, and Learn. Thanks for listening.
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:43:12
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on July 13, 2004, at 19:16:32
For some reason an old message popped up for the july 13th entry instead of the one that I wrote. I am not sure what thread my message went to. Please ignore this july entry as it is old news, alot has changed since I first wrote you that letter. Wish to hear from more of you. If anyone finds my other thread from july 13 please let me know.
Jadah
Posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 22:15:45
In reply to Re: lsot message, posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:43:12
I'm confused now. I read the post above, about you wanting to find a new T, and I thought, good for her! Is that current, or is that old?
Either way, here for support. It's nice to see you back.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Susan47 on March 28, 2005, at 18:36:03
In reply to Re: I'm in love with my therapist, posted by Jadah on March 27, 2005, at 15:39:16
I think that's really quite wonderful, Jadah. You sound positive and ready to keep moving forward, and you've lived, loved, and learned ... you sound so much stronger and more upbeat than you did last year (was it about this time?). I don't want to upset anybody, but I believe this relationship with your T has been good for him and for you, in that it's helped you both learn. I don't imagine he'll repeat this experience in the future.. I'm sure knowing what's involved will keep him much more grounded and valuable as a therapist. He's been through the mill, too, I'm sure.
Posted by Susan47 on March 28, 2005, at 18:37:58
In reply to Re: lsot message, posted by gardenergirl on March 27, 2005, at 22:15:45
I think it's the current one we're presently being linked to, but from her post itself you can get the version she's talking about. You're right, good for her, if I'm right ...
Posted by LadyBug on April 4, 2005, at 0:21:47
In reply to Re: lsot message » gardenergirl, posted by Susan47 on March 28, 2005, at 18:37:58
Jadah,
I have read all your posts etc. I can relate to the feelings and the rollercoaster. I've seen my T for over 8 years now. I can't have an affair with my T as she is a female and so am I. But the love is familar to me.
I hope you keep writing. You are so brave. I hope this all works out for you. You have what many of us envy or not....... The fantasy.... Love is a fine line of hate. It can be confusing sometimes.
Take care and stay around for strength and support.Chris
Posted by Jadah on April 5, 2005, at 19:54:31
In reply to I'm in love with my therapist, posted by tinydancer on October 10, 2003, at 2:43:19
thank you all for your input. My emotions are all over the place. Today I am angry, scared and sad. I know what I need to do and have been looking into getting a new T. I guess Im kind of picky. I really think I should get a female T, since I have so many issues with men and I dont want my situation to repeat itself. Uuhh, I do love him so. My heart aches. Ive learned to love, but I also got hurt. I will do my best to take everything that he has taught me and apply it to my future relationships. I am dating someone now but I must examine my motives. I dont want him to just be a replacement. I do like this guy though. I do think about my T all the time. Its hard and confusing. He still tells me that he loves me and doesnt want to lose me. He thinks we can work through this. I hope this never happens to anyone else. Please learn from me. Its normal to fanticize about your T sexually, its normal to want to merge with them emotionally and want to be a part of their lives full time, but believe me, its better to just want, to just dream.... Cherish the relationship you have with your T, it is sacred when not taken to the extreme. Maybe tomorrow I will be on the upside of this rollercoaster Im on. For now, I will feel these unwanted feelings and deal with them appropriately. Tomorrow is another day. Thaks again for all of your support. I dont know what I would do without you all!
Jadah
Posted by Jadah on April 5, 2005, at 20:02:50
In reply to Name of book i mentioned, posted by LG04 on September 22, 2004, at 13:49:52
Sorry Im a little behind with the messages, I was without a computer for a long while. I was going back and reading old messages and came across the book you mentioned (LG04). I just checked it out from the library tonight. I will read it and tell you what I thought. Im very sure it will be helpful, and now is a better time than ever to read self help books. Thank you soooo much. Better late than never, right?
jadah
Posted by pinkeye on April 6, 2005, at 13:07:45
In reply to Re: so confused, posted by Jadah on April 5, 2005, at 19:54:31
Well Jadah, I have always been one to support your relationship with your T. I have always said do what you have to do - even if it means continuing the relationship with your T.
But now I am thinking it is not good for you anymore to continue this. It is time to let go and move on. I think you have gone through a full cycle - attracted, and got involved, and healed, and stopped the sexual relationship and started dating other people. Maybe it is just time to let go of this T and fully move on.
Posted by bird in the sky on August 15, 2005, at 20:51:30
In reply to Re: so confused, posted by Jadah on April 5, 2005, at 19:54:31
I am a very late comer, as i just put "in love with my therapist" in a search engine and found this place recently. It has been helpful to me to read some of you guys' experiences on being in love with your therapist. I am at this point in love with mine for about 14 months and wishing i could have an affair. What is this thing love? isnt there another word for it? I dont want to have him instead of my husband but yet i think about him all the time or feel he is with me somehow, in my breath. I have a lot of good things in my life but i look forward to my sessions more than anything. i know you guys will probably think, oh no not again. Didn't she learn from reading Jadah's heartaches? i guess not... sorry
Posted by jadah on August 16, 2005, at 17:46:35
In reply to Re: so confused » Jadah, posted by bird in the sky on August 15, 2005, at 20:51:30
boy, does your post bring back memories. your infatuation is normal and it is possible to love or "be in love" with more than one person at a time. I know the heartache of always wondering and wanting more from your T. My case is unusual. My affair did relieve much of my yearning and wondering but it also left me unsatisfied. The more he gave the more I wanted. I still hurt. He still takes up most of my thoughts and most of my heart. I hate thinking of him with his wife and kids, b/c i wish it was me. It kills me. It is interfering with my life and my relationship with my boyfriend. I often wonder if I will ever be able to give myself fully to another man in the same way that I have with my T. There are many times when I wish I could go back and still idolize him, still fantasize, still wonder.... Now its just like a game, only I know that in the end I will be the one to lose. I hate him sometimes for crossing the line, for giving me more only to take it away in the end. When it all comes down to it, he is just another man who will hurt and abandon me. This cant go on forever, he will never leave his wife for me. It sucks feeling second best. Get what needs you can get met from your T. Take it, learn from it then apply it (to your well being and your relationship with your husband). My goal is to be able to walk away from this relationship knowing that Im worthy of being loved, that loving someone else is worthwhile and rewarding, that I can overcome my past abuse issues- not all men will hurt me nor do I have to crawl out of my skin every time i am touched, intimacy if fabulous and meant to be shared, that i could stay present and enjoy the moment.... and so on. I say these things b/c everything that I once thought bad or unclean has been purified by my experience with my T. Not saying you should seek this out, but that whatever you are given by this mesmerizing T, run with it, tuck it away, and when youre able, use it all to tear down your walls and add to your fire. Although you want to merge with this T, you are your own person, just as you were before you met him. You can stand on your own aside from this person. Obsessing about your T will only make you feel worse. Instead of focusing on what you want from this person, focus on what can realistically be given to you. Some things are meant to remain unkown. Think about why he makes you feel so special and seek that out in your relationships. Hes just a person like you and I, you must try to see him in this way and take him off the pedestal. Dont know if I am making any sense. Here is something I wrote to anyone who feels the way you do. I understand your wanting MORE from your T but trust me, along with the good comes the bad. You really see the humanness in them. Taking them off of the pedistal that you have thim on.... it can be disappointing to see their flaws, bad habits, their mood swings, their anger.... it really changes your view of them to realize that they are not perfect like you imagined. The more I learn about his personal life, the more I wish I wouldnt have asked. I kinda miss that "perfect" person, the one who could do no wrong. Sexually, he is everything I thought he would be. Personally.... what can I say... hes no different than anyone else I know thats human :0 I am facing much hurt. I dont regret anything but the pain, I think will be alot worse than if I had just stuck to my fantasies and always wondered and only ached to find out. Their are alot of negatives attached to this. One day, friends or not, I will lose him. I hope I dont lose myself in the process.
Posted by bird in the sky on August 18, 2005, at 10:43:28
In reply to Re: bird in the sky, posted by jadah on August 16, 2005, at 17:46:35
I sure do appreciate you sharing with me all you have learned, jadah. i have read over what you have said many times and will continue to. Each sentence has something to consider, esp coming from 1 who has been there and with so much feeling. A few times i have been overcome with emotion and love i have tried to hug him, but his expression changes from happy and sweet to kinda mad. I know he really likes me too but i guess he is real serious when it comes to the rules. He is much older than i and i am not unattractive so it seems like he at least would like a hug. i would give anything to be able to feel his body against mine, even thru clothes. Now since i did this, it seems like he is punishing me. closing off hismself a bit and saying 2 weeks is soon enough to see him. I want to see him a lot more, but when i do i get too worked up for about a week, then it tapers off a bit. It's not just a sexual horniness, i come often enough to satisfy that. It's a lot more. and it hurts but feels so good. thanks for your support.
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