Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 908639

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by iforgotmypassword on July 26, 2009, at 12:09:34

i am HOPING to be trying this drug soon; servier canada is definitely putting my doctor and i through a process over it, though.

i was wondering, how long do people find that they are sleeping on agomelatine? does your sleep become more efficient so that you need less? can it make your sleep more efficient than most people's, and allow you to sleep less than eight hours and still be entirely rested?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? iforgotmypassword

Posted by Phillipa on July 26, 2009, at 12:26:57

In reply to how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by iforgotmypassword on July 26, 2009, at 12:09:34

From what I hear it varies. Phillipa

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Sigismund on July 26, 2009, at 14:24:29

In reply to how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by iforgotmypassword on July 26, 2009, at 12:09:34

I don't know about 'entirely rested'. It's not magic.
(It has an extremely odd taste and looks like it's bad for the liver, but that's the industry for you, the top end too.)
But the tendency is for one to get up feeling more rested.
It may, of course, stop working.
Other than that, it's pretty good.
I sleep 7 hours or so, which is a lot for me these days.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on July 27, 2009, at 11:26:04

In reply to how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by iforgotmypassword on July 26, 2009, at 12:09:34

> i am HOPING to be trying this drug soon; servier canada is definitely putting my doctor and i through a process over it, though.
>
> i was wondering, how long do people find that they are sleeping on agomelatine? does your sleep become more efficient so that you need less? can it make your sleep more efficient than most people's, and allow you to sleep less than eight hours and still be entirely rested?

I'm wanting to try agomelatine, but my gp wouldn't prescribe it to me. Sigimund, would you say that Agomelatine is an effective antidepressant. More so than others you have tried? Of course it isn't a miracle med, but such a thing dosn't exist.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Alexanderfromdenmark

Posted by Sigismund on July 27, 2009, at 16:27:17

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on July 27, 2009, at 11:26:04

>would you say that Agomelatine is an effective antidepressant

Alexander, I've tried so few. Just Parnate and selegeline, various nootropics. I've never taken an SSRI. There should be something else? Ritalin, stuff like that, and all the alternative things.

But other people who are more experienced say that the AD response to agomelatine is not as robust as the response to some SSRIs, but this is more than made up for by the favourable s/e profile and the improved sleep.

It surely ought to be the first prescribed for depression associated with poor sleep, although I have to say that one could imagine resistance to this. There is an inbuilt element of sadism in our culture, reflected in our laws and prescribing practices.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Sigismund on July 27, 2009, at 19:57:21

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on July 27, 2009, at 11:26:04

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090721/msgs/908781.html

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on July 28, 2009, at 14:08:39

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Alexanderfromdenmark, posted by Sigismund on July 27, 2009, at 16:27:17

> >would you say that Agomelatine is an effective antidepressant
>
> Alexander, I've tried so few. Just Parnate and selegeline, various nootropics. I've never taken an SSRI. There should be something else? Ritalin, stuff like that, and all the alternative things.
>
> But other people who are more experienced say that the AD response to agomelatine is not as robust as the response to some SSRIs, but this is more than made up for by the favourable s/e profile and the improved sleep.
>
> It surely ought to be the first prescribed for depression associated with poor sleep, although I have to say that one could imagine resistance to this. There is an inbuilt element of sadism in our culture, reflected in our laws and prescribing practices.


Just curious. Why have you never taken an SSRI? They are sucky meds, I'm just wondering if you knew that at the time and that's the reason.

The main problem with nearly all antidpressants is that they fail to improve sleep and often make it much causing insomnia or poor sleep quality.

There cannot be good health an mental stability without good sleep. All lifelong insomniacs know this.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Alexanderfromdenmark

Posted by Sigismund on July 28, 2009, at 16:27:32

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on July 28, 2009, at 14:08:39

>Why have you never taken an SSRI?

Nothing I've read on Babble made me think it would have been worth the effort or the risk.

I did take tianeptine for a year or so...that's another one.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 22:40:47

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Alexanderfromdenmark on July 28, 2009, at 14:08:39

how long did it take for the sleep improvement to kick in... i just started agomelatine (few days) and bumped it to 50mg last night and my sleep is a bit worse from low dose serzone....

also - the individual that was on tianeptine... why did you stop?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Hundredwaters

Posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 20:22:54

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 22:40:47

> how long did it take for the sleep improvement to kick in...

From day 1, but only at a LOW dose, whatever that might be, allowing for tolerance and individual difference.


>i just started agomelatine (few days) and bumped it to 50mg last night and my sleep is a bit worse from low dose serzone....

That's what I'd expect, although the Serzone thing I'm ignorant of.


> also - the individual that was on tianeptine... why did you stop?

I came to dislike it. It made me feel anxious and strange toward the end.

 

tianeptine

Posted by Sunbath on August 11, 2009, at 5:04:36

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Hundredwaters, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 20:22:54

Hi,

just wanted to add that I experienced similar (towards the end) with tianeptine. First I thought GREAT: lessened my anxiety and feelings of stress with almost no side effects, but after a few months I felt my anxiety increase and felt almost dysphoric and tired the whole day..

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Hundredwaters on August 11, 2009, at 14:07:26

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Hundredwaters, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 20:22:54

This medication is given me wicked restless legs syndrome at night, even at 25mg. I feel WAY better though. My depression overall seems to be related to NE as I feel quickly better even on low dose nortryptiline (I have pain issues). However, I seem to get mild sexual side effects from NE drugs - more an autonomic thing I guess. Not sure what to do - pehaps I will cut it to 12.5mg and add a little bit of wellbutrin in the AM and hope my tinnitus doesnt get overly aggravated. It's too bad this thing screws up my sleep - I am definitely up sevearl hours after taking it.... And I wouldnt say the antidepressant effect is mild, but some of that might be sleep deprevation.

So is the general consensus to avoid serotonergic medications as they can have lasting post-treatment effects (poor sexual functioing, etc) whereas the others just have annoying tolerability issues. Or do the other classes have some concerning post-treatment effects as well?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Hundredwaters

Posted by JoJo416 on August 12, 2009, at 13:10:41

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Hundredwaters on August 11, 2009, at 14:07:26


> This medication is given me wicked restless legs syndrome at night, even at 25mg. I feel WAY better though. My depression overall seems to be related to NE as I feel quickly better even on low dose nortryptiline (I have pain issues). However, I seem to get mild sexual side effects from NE drugs - more an autonomic thing I guess. Not sure what to do - pehaps I will cut it to 12.5mg and add a little bit of wellbutrin in the AM and hope my tinnitus doesnt get overly aggravated. It's too bad this thing screws up my sleep - I am definitely up sevearl hours after taking it.... And I wouldnt say the antidepressant effect is mild, but some of that might be sleep deprevation.
>
> So is the general consensus to avoid serotonergic medications as they can have lasting post-treatment effects (poor sexual functioing, etc) whereas the others just have annoying tolerability issues. Or do the other classes have some concerning post-treatment effects as well?
................................................
>Hi,
I wanted to reply to this post. people with RLS should really stay away from the tricyclic ant-d's and the SSRI's . There is a lot of documentation out there that thes meds especially the tricyclics is pretty universal in exacerbating RLS. there are other things you can take to help you sleep, without making your RLS nutty. I have RLS 24/7, but can control it with opiates pretty well, as none of the othe rmeds out that they use for RLS work for me. I was categorically suicidal when my doc put me on a tricyclic anti-d for migraine prevention, and that was when I found out how bad RLS can affect a person.I did not sleep for 2 weeks, and ended up in the ER. I moderate 3 online support groups with over 1500 members, and have been studying RLS for over a decade.
>www.rlshelp.org has a great treatment page plus foods and drugs to avoid when you have RLS.
just FYI, and a heads up. Yes, people can react differently to different meds. But,agomelatine
may help you sleep longer if you are lucky, but no med is going to make you need less sleep. You may feel better, but whether you are getting natural sleep, or medicated sleep, you still need the same amount to function. These meds do not make you sleep faster and more 'efficiently", so you can sleep less. That is not what they are designed to do. The brain and body still need the right amount of sleep to heal and rest properly.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Hundredwaters on August 12, 2009, at 18:04:33

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Hundredwaters, posted by JoJo416 on August 12, 2009, at 13:10:41

i think RLS is typically a dopamine thing... or iron. SSRI's typically lower dopamine, except for sertraline i believe. i wonder how opiates work? i seem to be having more periodic limg movments of sleep.

this medication is very odd. the last two days i felt what it must feel like to be completely normal, although it wasnt lasting. it was a bit troubling as i could instantly see a whole range of life choices would have gone differently. very curious experience. i also have been sleeping something like 4-5 hours and do not feel tired except in an odd, deep sense. i tend to wake up much earlier, even with cutting the dose. i will try 6+ mg tonight, but am frustrated as i feel v. irritable at this point. earlier i felt quite alert - almost as if i was being pushed along but not like a stimulant as i felt very calm and free of euphoria. im guessing this is NE activity? im sure it would work much better if i could exercise regularly, but i cant really.

i think this thing is really screwing up my sleep, which in turn is having negative effects, even though it's providing signals that sleep has been adequate.

anybody else care to chime in on their experience and what has worked?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by JoJo416 on August 12, 2009, at 22:58:20

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Hundredwaters on August 6, 2009, at 22:40:47

> how long did it take for the sleep improvement to kick in... i just started agomelatine (few days) and bumped it to 50mg last night and my sleep is a bit worse from low dose serzone....
>
> also - the individual that was on tianeptine... why did you stop?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi, again,
I forgot to answer the part about this med has to have time to build up in your blood. Full effects should be felt in 4 to 6 wks, but if it bothers your legs the higher dose will just make it harder, because that effect does happen almost immediately, like in a few hours instead of weeks.
have a good night; I hope we all do!

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Sigismund on August 15, 2009, at 1:51:57

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Hundredwaters on August 12, 2009, at 18:04:33

So you're on 6mg agomelatine?

>almost as if i was being pushed along but not like a stimulant as i felt very calm and free of euphoria. im guessing this is NE activity?

It wondered if it was a dopamine thing.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by hundredwaters on August 21, 2009, at 13:23:29

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Sigismund on August 15, 2009, at 1:51:57

trying to sort out a dose still... 6mg is not enough, as I feel crappy today, and 12.5 gives me significant RLS. the alertness thing seems like a combo of DA and NE... Or maybe it's more DA in the frontal cortex rather than the nucleus accumbens, although i dont know how it would select for that. Anyway. Not sure what to do - have been taking a low dose of serzone to sleep better with 12.5mg but im not happy with the potential liver toxicity of both of these. Maybe switch to trazodone and 12.5mg agomelatine or start taking Resveratrol in the AM and 6mg which should increase levels of Agomelatine. This seems like a really good medication except for the RLS, although at 25mg I am OVER stimulated and feel very strange.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? hundredwaters

Posted by Sigismund on August 21, 2009, at 16:59:55

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by hundredwaters on August 21, 2009, at 13:23:29

Resveratrol is a complicating factor I tend to forget; another one of those things I take (20mg/d).

I wonder how significant the effect on ago levels is?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by hundredwaters on August 21, 2009, at 17:54:47

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? hundredwaters, posted by Sigismund on August 21, 2009, at 16:59:55

Do you notice any benefit from it... or from Deplin or SAMe if you use them with Ago for that manner?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Sigismund

Posted by morganator on August 21, 2009, at 19:30:44

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? hundredwaters, posted by Sigismund on August 21, 2009, at 16:59:55

How do you think Resveratrol would affect medications like Zoloft?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by Hundredwaters on August 21, 2009, at 20:24:31

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Sigismund, posted by morganator on August 21, 2009, at 19:30:44

no. setraline (zoloft) is metabolized by different families of liver enzymes than resveratrol or agomelatine. none of these enzymes are effected by either, at least to a pharmacologically concerning degree. if they were you would just adjust your dose accordingly.

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Hundredwaters

Posted by morganator on August 21, 2009, at 21:30:31

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by Hundredwaters on August 21, 2009, at 20:24:31

Thank you..I wonder if depakote or lithium would have any issues with resveratrol or Ago? Maybe I should do my own search and find out.. : )

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? hundredwaters

Posted by Sigismund on August 22, 2009, at 2:07:31

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?, posted by hundredwaters on August 21, 2009, at 17:54:47

>Do you notice any benefit from it

Resveretrol?

Perhaps I'm going downhill more slowly because of it? I really just approve of stuff like that is probably it....


>or from Deplin

Haven't taken it


>or SAMe if you use them with Ago for that manner?

I came to the conclusion that SAMe was just making me more upset.

Is that what agitation is? Being upset?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? morganator

Posted by Sigismund on August 22, 2009, at 2:09:32

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? Sigismund, posted by morganator on August 21, 2009, at 19:30:44

>How do you think Resveratrol would affect medications like Zoloft?

No idea, of course.

There's that CYP enzyme thingo that agomelatine uses and resveretrol inhibits.

Does Zoloft require this enzyme?

 

Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine?

Posted by morganator on August 22, 2009, at 2:42:33

In reply to Re: how long do you sleep on agomelatine? morganator, posted by Sigismund on August 22, 2009, at 2:09:32

there's a few CYP thingo's, not sure exactly which one goes with which


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