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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on October 24, 2006, at 15:38:07
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » Racer, posted by SLS on October 23, 2006, at 7:50:54
Hi Scott
Which opioid do you have at home?
Ed
Posted by SLS on October 24, 2006, at 17:47:18
In reply to Hm... 'Nother thought for SLS..., posted by Racer on October 24, 2006, at 12:50:28
> Scott, remember a while back I sent you an article about short term, low dose dexamethasone to jump start response?
Hmm. I really don't remember. It sounds interesting, though.
I saw my doctor today. He is more amenable to combining Nardil with nortriptyline, but not right away. He wants to investigate thyroid function first. Wilson's Syndrome. My TSH was 1.5 last week, which is acceptable. I'll be taking my temperature over the next few days to see if it is running low. If it is, he wants to add Armour thyroid.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 24, 2006, at 17:59:01
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by corafree on October 24, 2006, at 14:48:43
> I liked Lyrica at the beginning, and NOW 'I can't really feel any good from it either'. How high in dosage did you go S?
I was up to 600mg for several weeks.
> Do you have to take massive doses of certain meds(?), 'cuz I do. If I went back on Eff-XR, I'd have to go up to 300mg in wks.
When I first responded to medications, it was at lower dosages. Now, I need high dosages just to get the smallest of improvements.
> I'm moving slow today.
Me too. It is painful at times. There is anxiety too. I'm glad the day is almost over. Maybe tomorrow will be better.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 24, 2006, at 18:00:43
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by ed_uk on October 24, 2006, at 15:38:07
> Hi Scott
>
> Which opioid do you have at home?
Oxycodone.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2006, at 12:43:06
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » ed_uk, posted by SLS on October 24, 2006, at 18:00:43
Hi Scott
>Oxycodone
Will you try it?
Ed
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 13:33:37
In reply to Lyrica left me feeling worse., posted by SLS on October 21, 2006, at 17:06:31
This is prob' my 'self-esteem' talking, but, ... I get the feeling that when I talk to you, Scott, you sorta' throw it off your shoulder, like time-consuming, useless babble.
When I post to one person in particularly, and am not responded to, it hurts my feelings.
Whoa, do I wish I didn't have any feelings!
love, cf
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 13:39:18
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » corafree, posted by SLS on October 24, 2006, at 17:59:01
OMG, I stuck both feet in my big fat mouth!!!
I'm so sincerely sorry, Scott!
love, cf
ps: Couldn't stand it, so back on Eff-XR, like an addit. Let me know if I could talk w/ you privately?
Posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 14:11:17
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2006, at 12:43:06
> Hi Scott
>
> >Oxycodone
>
> Will you try it?
Right now, I am very indecisive about things. Maybe over the weekend.It looks like it is going to be weeks before things return to the way they were before I started Lyrica. Things have not improved much over the course of the last 10 days. Today was a little better than yesterday, but it comes and goes in intensity.
I am fighting off some pretty scary thoughts and derealization.
- Scott
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 15:14:27
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » ed_uk, posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 14:11:17
I'd like to chime in here to E's post to say feel you should try it.
Think Lyrica 'was important' 2U. Maybe go back 2 original dose, just stay there.
love, cf
Posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2006, at 16:42:40
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » ed_uk, posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 14:11:17
Hi Scott
Do you remember how long it took you to recover after you stopped Neurontin? Perhaps you will recover at a similar rate.
Take care
Ed
Posted by Crazy Horse on October 25, 2006, at 17:58:11
In reply to Lyrica left me feeling worse., posted by SLS on October 21, 2006, at 17:06:31
> Lyrica did something to leave me feeling worse. I discontinued it over a week ago. Neurontin affected me the same way. The exacerbation of my condition does not become apparant until it is unmasked by the discontinuation the drug.
>
> I have no idea how long I will be feeling worse for.
>
> I have not been in a very healthy state of mind.
>
> My outlook is bleak. I feel that I have run out of options.
>
>
> - ScottScott, I apologise for not posting earlier..I have not been to the PB website for about a week. I am sorry Lyrica didn't work for you, and now you feel even worse. Why not try ECT Scott? I had 22 treatments in 1997..and they helped me very much. How?..i don't really know..i don't think anyone really knows how they work, but they do! I went into the hospital (inpatient) wanting to die, and left 2 mos. later with a smile on my face. Memory loss was not too bad, and it was only short term. Now my memory is really good..what was your name again..LOL. Really Scott, please consider ECT..please, please, i really think it will help you.
-Monte
Posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 18:19:00
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 15:14:27
Hi CF.
:-)
> I'd like to chime in here to E's post to say feel you should try it.
Thanks for the support. You are probably right. I won't know until I do.
> Think Lyrica 'was important' 2U. Maybe go back 2 original dose, just stay there.I know it looks that way. I think the drug was actually masking the damage it was doing.
I am convinced that Lyrica is not the right drug for me. It's too bad. It would have been a convenient solution.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 18:28:03
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2006, at 16:42:40
> Do you remember how long it took you to recover after you stopped Neurontin? Perhaps you will recover at a similar rate.
You know, I have been unable to remember exactly how long it took for me to return to baseline after taking Neurontin. It was over 6 years ago, and Parnate plus desipramine were added before things had time to settle. It was more than a few weeks, though.
One thing that both drugs have in common is that they bind to the alpha2delta subunit of the calcium channel. I guess I should be wary of drugs that do this in the future.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 18:41:16
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse., posted by Crazy Horse on October 25, 2006, at 17:58:11
Hi Monte.
> Scott, I apologise for not posting earlier..I have not been to the PB website for about a week. I am sorry Lyrica didn't work for you, and now you feel even worse. Why not try ECT Scott?
I had a series of treatments in 1991.
> I had 22 treatments in 1997..and they helped me very much.
Wow. What kind? Unilateral? Bilateral? Right or left?
How many treatments did it take before you began to feel better?
How long did the improvement last for?
I actually experienced a few hours of improvement after my fifth treatment. It was very encouraging. However, I saw no further response despite ten more treatments.
I am actually beginning to consider VNS more seriously. I never thought I would. I am also hoping that rTMS will become available relatively soon. Of course, rTMS is non-invasive and would probably make more sense to wait for.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2006, at 19:40:24
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » Crazy Horse, posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 18:41:16
Scott which meds would you take do you think if you decided on VNS? Love Jan
Posted by zeugma on October 25, 2006, at 20:13:18
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 25, 2006, at 19:40:24
it seems like this might be implicated in your pathology.
perhaps it would be worth learning more about this ion.
It seems that NMDA receptor activation allows Ca2+ influx, and NMDA antagonists are thought to have AD properties. I'm just thinking out loud.
-z
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 20:18:05
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » corafree, posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 18:19:00
Tks 4 bein' nice 2 me. Don't deserve much after 'my whiney reaction' this a.m.
I've seen quite a few pain docs. I'm on Flexeril 3xday, Voltaren 2x day, oxycodone 7.5/500or325 3x a day, Soma 50mg h.s., Lyrica 75mg h.s. Then on two psych meds.
I've seen quite a few pain docs. Only trigger points are effective and I'm not a surgical candidate.
One pain doc I saw (just got folder out), I grabbed a pen when he started talking and I've written here on his flyer I brought home, amitriptyline and Keppra. I don't know anything re: Keppra. Just FYI.
As 2 Lyrica, I don't have bad side effect on 75mg h.s. But, did when increased. Tried taking during day, NOT.
Neurontin, bad side effect, can't recall, d.c.'d.; same w/ Topomax.
love, cf
Posted by zeugma on October 25, 2006, at 20:23:06
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 20:18:05
cf,
I don't know about Keppra, but amitriptyline is a potent analgesic, as is its metabolite nortriptyline.
So you'll get to see if you like the TCA's.
-z
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 20:36:39
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » corafree, posted by zeugma on October 25, 2006, at 20:23:06
No Z. I'm stickin' w/ Eff-XR. I tried amitriptyline in the past and d.c.'d 4 some reason, and more recently Norpramin as didn't feel lift of mood.
love, cf
Posted by Crazy Horse on October 25, 2006, at 21:27:21
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » Crazy Horse, posted by SLS on October 25, 2006, at 18:41:16
>
>
> How many treatments did it take before you began to feel better?
> I began to feel better after about the 14th treatment.
> How long did the improvement last for?
> Well the treatments were back in 1997 and since then i have never been as severely depressed as i was before the ECT treatments. After the treatments and with Paxil and other augmentation agents on board i got about 2 years of depression free living, but even now and then when i do have a depressive episode they are never as horrible as the pre ECT depression. Is that because of the treatments or the meds?..i don't know. I do know that Lyrica makes me feel better then ANY med i have ever been on..and that is a lot of dif meds. :) I'm so sorry it didn't help you.-Monte
Posted by SLS on October 26, 2006, at 8:34:46
In reply to Ca2+, posted by zeugma on October 25, 2006, at 20:13:18
> it seems like this might be implicated in your pathology.
>
> perhaps it would be worth learning more about this ion.
>
> It seems that NMDA receptor activation allows Ca2+ influx, and NMDA antagonists are thought to have AD properties. I'm just thinking out loud.
I heard you all the way from here!One time, I took 1000mg of calcium supplement. I felt horribly more depressed within 1/2 hour. I've been too afraid to repeat the experiment. Does that make any sense?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 26, 2006, at 8:46:06
In reply to Re: Lyrica left me feeling worse. » SLS, posted by corafree on October 25, 2006, at 20:18:05
> Tks 4 bein' nice 2 me. Don't deserve much after 'my whiney reaction' this a.m.
I was upset at the possibility that I had overlooked your previous post. It happens quite frequently that I simply don't have the mental energy to attend to them all. So, for future reference, please don't take it personally should I not respond to one of your posts. It usually means that I either missed it or that I just didn't have the additional energy to reply to it.
> I've seen quite a few pain docs.I'm sorry that I don't remember exactly what you are suffering from. Is fibromyalgia in there somewhere?
Nortriptyline is not the same as Norpramin (desipramine). Nortriptyline is the daughter drug of amitriptyline and tends to be a more pleasant drug to deal with than desipramine.
I can't believe how many drugs you are taking. No wonder you are burned-out on them.
- Scott
Posted by deniseuk190466 on October 26, 2006, at 12:13:32
In reply to Lyrica left me feeling worse., posted by SLS on October 21, 2006, at 17:06:31
Scott,
Just want to say, I'm really sorry that the Lyrica didn't work for you, I'm waiting for the day when you post on this board saying how great you feel.
I hope you feel better than you do now soon, at least you know it's the lyrica that's caused this set back so hopefully in a couple of weeks you will feel a bit better.I know what you mean about the VNS, I would seriously think about it myself but the statistics on it don't look that great. However, there are some people it really seems to have helped.
I'm not sure how bad you were feeling before trying out the Lyrica or what risks you would consider taking in order to feel really truly well. But would you consider something like Deep Brain Stimulation? I know the samples have been small so far but the results seem to be really promising.
Anyway, if you don't answer that's fine just wanted to say something as you've always been so encouraging and reassuring with me and I only seem to post on this board to whinge and moan (refer to my next post for more whinging :-))
Denise
Posted by zeugma on October 26, 2006, at 13:17:17
In reply to Re: Ca2+ » zeugma, posted by SLS on October 26, 2006, at 8:34:46
it makes perfect sense that you would not want to repeat the experiment. Calcium is an intensely aversive stimulus for you.
As to underlying pathology, I don't know. Sigma-1 agonists are theorized by some to be antidepressant, and it appears that they slow K+ efflux and speed Ca2+ efflux from cells. Have you ever noticed an effect on your mood from any other mineral (potassium especially?).Looking on notes I took last summer, it seems AMPA receptor stimulation phosphorylates Na+ and K+ channels, and NMDA stimulation phosporylayes K+ and Ca2+ channels. That's why the Polish pharmacologists (who are the main source of interest in the "NMDA hypothesis" of depression) recommend amantadine and similar drugs for augmentation.
since my computer has lost its ability to cut and [paste, i will summarize a fragment. They hypothesize that amantadine and sigma ligands synerdize with AD's chiefly via D2/D3 receptors and alpha-1 adrenoceptors. D2 signalling is thought to be responsible for attentional flexibility, as well as being anti-anhedonic/motivational. What is your cognitive phenotype? (I've been reading these articles too long.) Excessive D2 is thought to create 'flexible but unstable' representations, while excessive D1 creates an inability to process novel information due to the excessive stabilty of the cognitive representations. D1 receptors physically interact (not just colocaloze) with NMDA receptors; it seems the D1 receptors randomly drift in the cellular space until 'trapped' by NMDA receptors. This probably explains why D1 receptors couple to so many second messenger systems.
in any case, if you google 'amantadine' and 'antidepressants', you will come with a lot of this stuff :-)
But I am just trying to think of what the pattern is to your AD (or dysphoric) responses. I have a close friend who had a severely dysphoric reaction to Wellbutrin, and some researchers at Lilly found that adding bupropion to clozapine potentiated NMDA function in the PFC. Do you have OCD-like symptoms, or is it closer to the cognitive chaos of ADHD?
Sorry of these questions are too personal; feel free not to answer them. You can clearly see the perseveration in my own thought process :-)
-z
Posted by ed_uk on October 26, 2006, at 13:54:32
In reply to Re: Ca2+ » zeugma, posted by SLS on October 26, 2006, at 8:34:46
>One time, I took 1000mg of calcium supplement. I felt horribly more depressed within 1/2 hour.
Have you ever taken a magnesium supplement? How did you react?
Ed
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