Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 50878

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Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover

Posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 10:02:05

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use dragonfly25, posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 9:56:40

thank you, that is a relief, i don't live in europe, but i am very stressed:)

 

re: the benefits of topamax

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:12:45

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:03:32

> >
>
> hi kat,
> thanks for the info.


Dragonfly, I wouldn't worry NOW, but don't continue taking it... this is more info I learned the hard way and from the dogs... this is a selenium poor area.. none in the soil... and as the dogs were having problems conceiving, as the girls went long periods with no litters, not uncommon in this breed but frustrating as we waited anxiously for the next stage in the plan... and one vet suggested adding selenium in miniscule amounts to the diet...
things got worse, the girls began delivering early with litters of dead puppies and on occasion puppies born live but with their internal organs external... about a year ago I discovered the effect it could have on a pregnancy ...spontaneaous abortion, and the potential defects... stopped adding it to the diet... and we had our first pups since selenium ... healthy happy incredible puppies...
the stuff does not have lingering effects... it is simply not good to use unless there is a need identified by a doctor... and then it needs to be monitored by the doctor...

if you are not using it now, then don't worry about it. Just don't start using it again and things will not be a problem...
it won't help your hair anyway and it does not battle any of the side effects I have seen identified unless topomax also causes thyroid inconsistencies and if so then that is not something that one should decide to deal with on one's own...

not to worry and bonne et heureuse annee
kat

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:22:46

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax headachequeen, posted by Murphia on January 1, 2004, at 6:25:00

> Thanks and Happy New Year to you too! May this be the year that you really start feeling better. An MS is a mood stabilizer. When you say you have depression that is recognized, does that mean your doc is diagnosing this? Or is this just something you know is going on. Yes, topa can make you flat; and many people grieve for the manic euphoria and creativity that they miss when going on an MS. However, it doesn't have to be that way. For all I've studied, it's still a dance of meds. Most people have to go through with the trial and error of med cocktails, until they find the one that best suits them, and allows them to live happy normal lives. It is possible, but it takes work. If we only knew more, we could produce those magic pills that will take care of everything. But we don't. It's a matter of finding the right combination to hit the neurotransmitters at the right time. A delicate dance of meds. I hate it. Everyone I know does. But for many, worth it once they find their combo. Hang in there. It sounds as if you are so actively participating in your health, you are one person I know will get there. Hugs and Good Cheer! Murph

Oh, Murph, I do hope you are right... I intend to get there and then thumb my nose at that delightful mental midget who terms himself a psychiatrist (evil grin there)
Yes, finally they have decided that just maybe I might actually be suffering from depression after all... who'd a thunk it?
and now they are deciding how to cope with it...
Hello??? they don't really need to cope with it... I am the one who has to cope with it...I am the one who has to live with it...
so maybe I should be invited into the discussions on coping...
Somehow these doctors forget that the patients exist.. I really love the way they can talk about us as if we were not in the room or discuss us when we are not there then present us with a decision... the way I decide on redecorating a room... which is of course a combination of inanimate and unthinking objects...
The side effects of Topomax do not bother me very much as I have learned to deal with them... mostly through this group of people, and you have given me a great deal of information...
however, I think I have found the one side effect that gives me cause for concern... if the manic part, the creative part of me is to be quashed, then I am no longer the creative person and there goes the writer, the artist... and where am I then...
I like being seizure-free I have to admit and the other anti-seizure med was not accomplishing that... I am not at all creative when I am dragging around in the post-episodic exhaustion state either...
LOL I want it all and I want it NOW...
I want to be seizure-free and I want to be depression-free and I want to be creative and flying high from that feeling that comes with reaching another of those wondrous moments of success... and I would like daily doses of that euphoria please...
greedy aren't I....
kat

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:35:16

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use dragonfly25, posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 9:56:40

I live in an area where there is absolutely no selenium in the soil or ground water... and not in Europe but in North America which is what led to the suggestion of adding selenium to the diet we use for the dogs...
it is not residual in the body... and is what we call a trace element in the minerals in the body ... we do not need much of it at all... taking more than 25 mcg is excessive really

if you are concerned about a deficiency of it, it is safer to take it naturally...
garlic, red meat, shellfish, fish, grapes (but never for dogs), broccoli, eggs, organ meat, chickent is an anti-oxidant and works with Vitamin E to boost the immune system...

It binds toxic metals such as mercury and cadmium, flsuhing them from the system, and works with iodine to enhance and unhealthy thyroid function...

but in most of North America it is best taken with medical supervision or direction as it comes in questionable dosages and can do harm as much as it does good...

This is not a trace mineral to be playing with on one's own wick... we tend to read things in books on vitamins and so on and jump in and diagnose ourselves or treat ourselves and this is not the thing to do
especially when trying to deal with side effects of a medication as this board was discussing...
when the supplement in question will do nothing to help it... and might, especially when taken in large amounts do harm ...
just a comment and an opinion based on ugly experience ... knowing that most of this region has more than sufficient of it in the soil, water and produce...
to the opposite, any vegetables produced in this region, and that would be the meat and vegetables I would use for my dogs and myself, have absolutely no selenium in them...
kat

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen

Posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 14:56:50

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover, posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:35:16

> taking more than 25 mcg is excessive really

No it is not. Please refer to the most authoritative review of the subject I have ever seen:
http://books.nap.edu/books/0309069351/html/284.html#pagetop

> It binds toxic metals such as mercury and cadmium, flsuhing them from the system, and works with iodine to enhance and unhealthy thyroid function...

It binds mercury, but does not flush it from the body. It stabilizes the mercury so that it can do no more harm, but the mercury remains in your tissues until death releases it. One of the most intense point-source anthropogenic (man-made) mercury emissions comes from crematoriums. Some of the mercury is from amalgam dental work, but the rest arises from tissue stores.

> but in most of North America it is best taken with medical supervision or direction as it comes in questionable dosages and can do harm as much as it does good...

That is a very misleading statement. The Lowest Observeable Adverse Effects Level (LOAEL) is 900 mcg/day, chronic ingestion. Individuals in the most seleniforous region of the United States, in Wyoming, consume in excess of 400 mcg/day seleniuum, with no adverse effects. The highest intake was estimated at about 800 mcg/day, with no adverse effect on health.

> This is not a trace mineral to be playing with on one's own wick... we tend to read things in books on vitamins and so on and jump in and diagnose ourselves or treat ourselves and this is not the thing to do

I recognize that caution is advised. But my recommendations are cautious.

> especially when trying to deal with side effects of a medication as this board was discussing...

....which can be ameliorated by mineral supplements.

> when the supplement in question will do nothing to help it... and might, especially when taken in large amounts do harm ...

...I'm not advocating large amounts. There is nothing at all large about 200 mcg/day selenium.

Moreover, following your suggestion, I researched any link between selenium and reproductive health, and found that selenium deficiency is associated with low sperm motility. I found no evidence for a toxic effect from excessive selenium ingestion.

Selenium supplementation (in excess of the requirement for stabilization of plasma glutathione peroxidase concentrations) is associated with a reduction in cancer risk, and with mood enhancement.

Here's a review article that clearly states that supplementation of 100-200 mcg/day selenium is necessary for the cancer-protective effects. There are numerous selenium supplementation trials underway right now, testing the effect on a variety of differenct cancers.

Mutat Res. 2001 Apr 18;475(1-2):123-39.

The protective role of selenium on genetic damage and on cancer.

El-Bayoumy K.

Division of Cancer Etiology and Prevention, American Health Foundation, 1 Dana Road, 10595, Valhalla, NY, USA. kelbayoumy@aol.com

Collectively, results from epidemiologic studies, laboratory bioassays, and human clinical intervention trials clearly support a protective role of selenium against cancer development. Several hypotheses have been proposed to explain these observations. Increased genomic instability, either inherent or induced by exogenous agents (mutagens or carcinogens), has been considered as a primary event leading to neoplastic transformation. This report deals specifically with the evidence for a role of selenium in the inhibition of carcinogen-induced covalent DNA adduct formation and retardation of oxidative damage to DNA, lipids and proteins, and for modulating cellular and molecular events that are critical in cell growth inhibition and in the multi-step carcinogenesis process. At present, the bulk of our knowledge on the role of selenium on genetic stability is based primarily on animal data and from studies conducted in in vitro systems. Studies performed in vitro showed that the dose and form of selenium compounds are critical factors with regard to cellular responses. Inorganic (at doses up to 10microM) and organic selenium compounds (at doses equal to or greater than 10microM) elicit distinctly different cellular responses. The recommended daily allowance (RDA) is 50-70 microgramSe per day for healthy adults; with 40 microgramSe as minimum requirement. Less than 11 microgramSe will definitely put people at risk of deficiency that would be expected to cause genetic damage. Daily doses of 100-200 microgramSe inhibited genetic damage and cancer development in humans. About 400 microgramSe per day is considered an upper limit. Clearly, doses above the RDA are needed to inhibit genetic damage and cancer. However, it has been hypothesized that the intake of excessive doses of selenium may cause oxidative damage, leading to genomic instability. The use of a cocktail consisting of selenium, and other vitamins and minerals appears to be a promising approach to inhibit genetic damage and the development of cancer. It is the author's recommendation that development of mechanism-based hypotheses that can be tested in pilot studies in different populations prior to a large-scale clinical trial in humans, is of paramount importance in order to better understand the role of selenium on genetic stability and cancer.


Here are a couple references for mood effects of selenium supps:

Biol Psychiatry. 1991 Jun 1;29(11):1092-8.

The impact of selenium supplementation on mood.

Benton D, Cook R.

Department of Psychology, University College, Swansea, Wales, UK.

The possibility that a subclinical deficiency of the trace element selenium might exist in a sample of the British population was examined by giving a selenium supplement for 5 weeks. Using a double-blind cross-over design, 50 subjects received either a placebo or 100 mcg selenium on a daily basis. On three occasions they filled in the Profile of Moods States. A food frequency questionnaire was used to estimate the intake of selenium in the diet. Intake was associated with a general elevation of mood and in particular, a decrease in anxiety. The change in mood when taking the active tablet was correlated with the level of selenium in the diet, which was estimated from a food frequency questionnaire. The lower the level of selenium in the diet the more reports of anxiety, depression, and tiredness, decreased following 5 weeks of selenium therapy. The results are discussed in terms of the low level of selenium in the food chain in some parts of the world.


Nutr Neurosci. 2002 Dec;5(6):363-74.

Selenium intake, mood and other aspects of psychological functioning.

Benton D.

Department of Psychology, University of Wales Swansea, Swansea SA2 8PP, Wales, UK. d.benton@swansea.ac.uk

Selenium is an essential trace element although the level of selenium in food items reflects the soil in which they were grown and thus varies markedly between different parts of the world. The metabolism of selenium by the brain differs from other organs in that at times of deficiency the brain retains selenium to a greater extent. The preferential retention of selenium in the brain suggests that it plays important functions. To date mood is the clearest example of an aspect of psychological functioning that is modified by selenium intake. Five studies have reported that a low selenium intake was associated with poorer mood. The underlying mechanism is unclear although a response to supplementation was found with doses greater than those needed to produce maximal activity of the selenoprotein glutathione peroxidase. Although the functions of many selenoproteins are unknown some play important roles in anti-oxidant mechanisms. As there are suggestions that oxidative injury plays a role in normal aging, schizophrenia, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease, the possible role of selenium is considered. Although there is evidence that supplementation with anti-oxidant vitamins shown some promise with Alzheimer's patients, and in preventing the development of tardive dyskinesia in schizophrenics taking neuroleptics, a role for selenium has been little considered.

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 15:07:30

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 14:56:50


>
> It binds mercury, but does not flush it from the body. It stabilizes the mercury so that it can do no more harm, but the mercury remains in your tissues until death releases it.


I was using the Mindell references for healthy use of supplements... as far as the intake of these things was concerned... and quoted him with regard to the flushing... and the dosage...

There are specialists now who recommend that one have the metal fillings removed and white amalgam I forget the name of the stuff fillings used to replace them; apparently the metal fillings, mostly mercury, cause a serious disruption in the body's balance and function... my orthopaedist has suggested it... and I am sure he is right...
except I have this great fear of dentists....
fear???? terror...
when we were kids one was never allowed to leave school for the dentist appointment, and the dental officer was an alcoholic... by the time we got there he was shattered... as my mouth was not big enough for adult teeth the DO at our last base had determined that certain adult teeth had to be removed; then we were posted... this new guy was to continue the work... he froze one side of my mouth and pulled teeth on the other... I do not go willingly to a dentist... and to have all my fillings replaced???? I'll keep the mercury ones thank you...
And darts used to be balanced with mercury... with which we used to play as children... and teachers brought mercury into classrooms... and and and...
scary thoughts indeed

kat

 

re: please be civil Karen_kay

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 2004, at 0:21:12

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by Karen_kay on December 31, 2003, at 20:02:22

> Proof positive my doctor really is a dumb [*]ss.

Sorry to be such a prude, but please don't use language that could offend others, thanks.

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.

 

re: please be civil Dr. Bob

Posted by Karen_kay on January 2, 2004, at 17:13:40

In reply to re: please be civil Karen_kay, posted by Dr. Bob on January 2, 2004, at 0:21:12

Oopsie! Just meant to say that maybe my Pdoc isn't always right on target. (Is that more civil?) Sorry, didn't mean to potentially offend anyone :)
Karen

 

re: the benefits of topamax headachequeen

Posted by Karen_kay on January 2, 2004, at 17:27:24

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:22:46

if the manic part, the creative part of me is to be quashed, then I am no longer the creative person and there goes the writer, the artist... and where am I then...

*That bothered me at first as well. I too am very creative. I hope to create documentaries, and my major is telecommunications currently. But, I've realized that I'm even more creative being stable. My ideas are currently coming at a more consistent rate. Though I don't have them coming at a "heavy flow" for a week at a time, I don't find that I have as many mental blocks for months at a time. I also find that due to my stability, I'm never short on creative ideas or endeavors. Every so often I do come across a mental block, but that is fairly common. And it doesn't last for moths at a time, due to depression. I think that my ideas for projects are some of the most creative and best put together (yes, I am biased but I try to also seperate that and look at it objectively) as a whole. I noticed that some of the projects I created while manice where just frantic. Fantastic, yes, but most certainly lacking. Now that medication has stabilized me, I still am very creative and I have the state of mind to follow through and see the project for what it is, not what I want it to be.
I think the key is finding a medication that works for you, without completely numbing your mind. Topamax is what is currently working for me. Not to say that won't change in the future, I hope not. But, currently it is working well. And I'm just as creative as before. Only now I can finish a project that actually makes sense. Not just to me, but also to the viewer. And that's wonderful!

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Karen_kay

Posted by headachequeen on January 2, 2004, at 21:41:11

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax headachequeen, posted by Karen_kay on January 2, 2004, at 17:27:24

I'm never short on creative ideas or endeavors... Now that medication has stabilized me, I still am very creative and I have the state of mind to follow through and see the project for what it is, not what I want it to be.
Only now I can finish a project that actually makes sense. Not just to me, but also to the viewer. And that's wonderful!

I am pleased that it is working so well for you... and just a matter of days ago someone said that there were never any positive slants to the comments about Topomax.. I hope those who think that are still here and still reading...

I have always been able to follow through on the ideas and complete the projects, in fact, it is the completion of a solid project -- the reaction of the audience or the reader or the editor or the station manager or the listener or the knowledge that the class I am teaching has really grasped the concept -- that sends me off into that high that is better than anything anyone can reach from any illicit drug I can think of. I always said I didn't need to try drugs, I had music, people and my mind to get me high...
When I put together a solid game plan and it works then I hit that peak that no one else can attain and I treasure most those people who don't object when I call at four in the morning to share my elation because the script is finished and it works... or who are there to celebrate with me when a programme comes together as planned...
the ones who understand that this is what makes me live and breathe...
well, actually it is those ghastly expensive inhalers that keep me breathing, the ones I am supposed to throw away so I can take control of my life <gg>, but you know what I mean...
and I am not sure that I am ready to have that particular part of my life suddenly controlled for me...
There is nothing like the rush of energy and excitement that flows through one's veins when one walks off the set after a show that has come together so well that one feels certain one is flying...
or the feeling that hits one's bloodstream when a tracking or agility session goes so well and every dog has hit the scent perfectly and every handler has managed his dog without overhandling and had a perfectly awesome experience...
I don't want to walk I want to soar ...
and I have to confess that I am afraid of losing that...
I don't want the seizures -- oh no, I do not want that but I do not want to walk forever...
I said I was greedy... I was an only child and I have come to believe that I was probably hyper...
I am always counting things when I walk... can't just walk there... and I have to have everying thing just so... have spent the past hour arranging photos in chronological order to put them in an album.. two years' worth of them...
I can't sit still even to watch television on the few occasions I sit down long enough to watch it... I read and watch television at the same time.. and knit or something of that sort at the same time as I am reading and watching; it drives my husband out of his mind...
actually I treat television like a radio with pictures...
or I arrange photos in albums or collage frames...
I cannot simply sit and be still..
tried meditation a few times... oh what a disaster that was...
My psychotherapist thinks it would be good for my... and he may be right but it is simply too much of a being still experience and it is not comfortable... I need to be doing things... anything ...
the only time I am still is when the depression phase sets in then I can lie in a darkened room for hours... not a problem... maybe I should try meditation then???
kat

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen

Posted by Karen_kay on January 2, 2004, at 22:30:02

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use Karen_kay, posted by headachequeen on January 2, 2004, at 21:41:11

I used to be the exact same way. I couldn't understand how someone could just sit and watch a movie without also reading a book or without getting up at least 12 times to do the laundry, walk the dog, paint your nails, ect. Just watching a movie used to be so boring, unless I was depressed. But, when I was depressed I couldn't even leave the couch unless I had to let the dog out or use the restroom. That's the only way I left the couch. Unless I was going to bed of course. Now things have changed. I'm still a bit fidgetty granted. I still can't watch a movie straight through, but I'm not up and moving all the time. I get the jist of what's going on at least.

I too am selfish, though not an only child. But with being stabilized on medication my creative projects are able to be more whole. They aren't as frantic. I just think it depends a great deal on finding the right cocktail for your chemistry. That makes all the difference in the world. (Though I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know) I'm not quite sure what your dx is. You have seizures, is that correct? As well as bipolar disorder, right? Sorry, this thread has been going on forever and I'm a bit absent minded :)!

But I really haven't noticed a decline in creativity from taking medication. If anything my creativity has flourished. The medication has just helped me to be able to better finish my projects and work at a steady pace, rather than a rapid and frantic one. I look back at some older work that I completed during manic phases and I just don't even understand how my professors could have understood what I was thinking at the time. I understand what I was trying to convey and the idea, it just didn't come across the way I would have liked. It's a shame too. The ideas are fantastic, the quality is just lacking. Unsteady camera work, poor lighting, ect. Solid ideas, poor quality. Great ideas, it just didn't come together.


 

Re: Topamax Experiences?

Posted by Beck on January 3, 2004, at 20:14:25

In reply to Topamax Experiences?, posted by Kingfish on January 4, 2001, at 7:29:48

Does Topamax make anyone else really irritable and grouchy, kinda tightly wound up, like the littlest things are big dramas for me. Does anyone else get this or am I just special?

 

re: thanks (nm) Karen_kay

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2004, at 0:01:52

In reply to re: please be civil Dr. Bob, posted by Karen_kay on January 2, 2004, at 17:13:40

 

Re: Topamax Experiences? Beck

Posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 0:14:01

In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on January 3, 2004, at 20:14:25

I wish I could attribute that lovely personality trait to topamax, but well, ummm I was that way before. I am fairly certain I've read that here before though. Have you posted this previously? If not, you may want to do a search on Dr Bob's page through topamax and irritabilty and see what pops up if there aren't many hits from your post. I'm sure that I have read that here before though... I personally haven't been any more grouchy or wound up. Actually quite the opposite, except recently, but with good reason..

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Karen_kay

Posted by headachequeen on January 4, 2004, at 13:08:13

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by Karen_kay on January 2, 2004, at 22:30:02

> I used to be the exact same way. I couldn't understand how someone could just sit and watch a movie without also reading a book or without getting up at least 12 times to do the laundry, walk the dog, paint your nails, ect.

To my mind it is wasting time to simply sit there watching the screen, unless I am doing something that I view as useful and productive with that time... watching hockey when the Canadiens are playing is productive, watching a sit-com is not; grooming a dog while watching same sit-com is productive, although I have to confess that there are few sit-coms I would watch or listen to even while grooming the dog. Come to think of it, other than to watch an occasional movie, I have not had the television on for over a year, almost two...
I do pop into the room where the other television is now and again to see how a game is going (as in how soon will it be over or to see a bit on antiques roadshow with my favourite expert, Harry Sinden (he and the star of Chef! another BBC export make television worth having and I confess to being able to sit and actually watch Chef! and Darling Buds of May reruns without feeling that I am wasting time...)
but I have to be using that time properly... perhaps some link to childhood and the presbyterian upbringing?? when one was not encouraged to waste time... creative play was encouraged, passive play using games and ideas created by someone else was not... and books were encouraged as opposed to television as they expanded the mind and imagination...

I take Topomax to help control epileptic seizures... as has been mentioned before on this board, I am one of the redheads here... we are special... oh soooooooo special.. our blood does not clot properly, so we have a special risk of hemmorhage following surgery and have a hard time with bleeding following even a minor puncture wound...
redheads have severly compromised immune system as I have learned to my sorrow.. spend a lot of time on antibiotics and with an iv pump attached or with nurses coming to the house every eight hours to run iv with fluids and antibiotics...as I work in my fun time training dogs, and have a particular skill with dogs who need behaviour modification I run a particular risk there... it stands to reason that if Rover has a problem with people I may be the plat du jour as we work out the problem... and as I grow older I grow slower in my response time...
but even a sliver or mosquito bite can lead to a flare up of cellulitis and then the round the clock iv and antibiotics..
we are also more sensitive to pain ...
all that aside, following a major emotional breakdown.. the psychiatrist who treated me after my admission to hospital informed me in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a nervous breakdown and then went on to inform me that I did not need a psychiatrist as I was not depressed, although I had been being treated for depression for several years... something like fifteen or more...
he told me I had a personality disorder that needed treatment by a psychologist and that I am hypomanic depressive... totally confusing me...
adding that I would require five or six years of psychotherapy before I could overcome the incidents in my childhood that led to this state and that he expected to see me back in hospital in six months and have a good day...
I think mostly I am confused LOL

I know that Dr. Bob wants us to be nice about these people in the medical profession and I am being polite when I say that this man became a psychiatrist because he had no bedside manner and could not become a regular doctor and based on the experience I have had with my psycholist would never have made it as a psycholist either...
and my psychologist is not terribly impressed either...
My greatest fear when I hit the periods when I hit the periods of depression such as I have been in recently and the psychologist and my doctor have agreed finally is actually depression that I have been hiding from them because of these fears, is having to go back there and be treated by him again
He is the head of the service and decides which psychiatrist has which patient...
I do not want to go back at all and I certainly would not want him for a doctor... the psychologist and my own doctors have both reassured me that they think I can stay out with no problem but that if ever I need to go back I can refuse to have him as a shrink and ask for the one who admitted me...
my doctor says he would even refer me to her and see that she was my prime caregiver in such an instance...
and that helps immensely...
although I still have no wish to be in hospital...
or on antidepressants if I can help it....
I want it all... and gift-wrapped LOL
kat

 

Re: Topamax Experiences?

Posted by Beck on January 5, 2004, at 16:05:11

In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences? Beck, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 0:14:01

> I wish I could attribute that lovely personality trait to topamax, but well, ummm I was that way before. I am fairly certain I've read that here before though. Have you posted this previously? If not, you may want to do a search on Dr Bob's page through topamax and irritabilty and see what pops up if there aren't many hits from your post. I'm sure that I have read that here before though... I personally haven't been any more grouchy or wound up. Actually quite the opposite, except recently, but with good reason..

No I haven't posted that previously. Oh my, you know its bad when your grouchyness begins to annoy you! I do not know how people live with me! There must be another medicine I can take istead...

 

Re: Topamax Experiences?

Posted by cyimda1 on January 8, 2004, at 8:49:27

In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Beck on January 5, 2004, at 16:05:11

I'm taking Topamax for Migraines....started at 15mg then to 30, now at 45 and will be up to 75 within a week or so. I have experienced MAJOR weight loss--and have never had that problem before--always been a little on the chunky side. I just have zero appetite. Nothing appeals to me. Is that happening to anyone else?? Also--I have just started to experience the tingling sensation and what did the rash look like? I got two very strange spots under my arms that almost looked like "rug burns" like you get when you're a kid tussling around on the carpet. My husband said they looked like bruises, but they didn't hurt at all, they're just starting to fade though. I didn't even think about the Topamax, but now I'm thinking they could have had something to do with the meds because I couldn't figure out where they came from.....

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use cyimda1

Posted by headachequeen on January 8, 2004, at 11:22:56

In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by cyimda1 on January 8, 2004, at 8:49:27

> I'm taking Topamax for Migraines....started at 15mg then to 30, now at 45 and will be up to 75 within a week or so. I have experienced MAJOR weight loss--and have never had that problem before--always been a little on the chunky side. I just have zero appetite. Nothing appeals to me. Is that happening to anyone else?? Also--I have just started to experience the tingling sensation and what did the rash look like? I got two very strange spots under my arms that almost looked like "rug burns" like you get when you're a kid tussling around on the carpet. My husband said they looked like bruises, but they didn't hurt at all, they're just starting to fade though. I didn't even think about the Topamax, but now I'm thinking they could have had something to do with the meds because I couldn't figure out where they came from.....

While one of the reasons I was put on Topomax was to curb the migraine problem, I am primarily using it as a secondary med for epileptic seizures...apparently it cannot be used on its own for migraines... sigh... I had high hopes of being able to kick loose of the tegritol
At the beginning, I started on 25 mg in the evening increasing in increments of 25 mg every 2 weeks until I reached 200 mg then starting at 25 mg in the morning on the same schedule until I reached 200 mg in the mornings as well, I had no appetite...
the appetite has returned to some level now...
I am not as ravenously hungry as I used to be and I do not have the same cravings for food that I used to have ...
chocolate is said to be a trigger for migraine and I used to be unable to resist it... now I have little if any interest in it.. not even cocoa on a cold winter evening.. so that is no longer a problem ... and I have been a year without a migraine... it is official as of last evening...

I don't know about the bruising and topomax...
I bruise at the drop of a hat in the next county as it is... but have seen no increase with Topomax...
someone else may be able to tell you whether that is a Topomax side effect...
but the appetite suppressant effect seems to level off at some point...
I do know that I lost sixty-plus pounds that I could well afford to lose in the time since I started taking it and am now wearing size ten jeans and skirts and quite pleased about it...
with work and self-control may get back to my original size... but not to the anorexic size... never that...
kat

 

Topamax and migraines

Posted by cyimda1 on January 8, 2004, at 12:53:51

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use cyimda1, posted by headachequeen on January 8, 2004, at 11:22:56

Kat--

Wow--that makes me feel better. The migraines do seem to be slowing slightly. Down to a size 10?? Sixty pounds wow!! What kind of time frame are we talking about? I -- stupidly enough...didn't weigh myself when I started on Topamax at the beginning of November. But this was the first holiday season that I didn't binge. I also used to be a choc-aholic. No desire now, and I know they are a trigger for migraines as well as coca-cola and other caffeine products. Since all carbonated beverages taste much like "battery acid" now, I've gone almost exclusively to water so I'm sure that's helping the weight loss as well. How long did it take before you leveled off, and how quickly did the weight drop? Did you ever feel really weak because of it?

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use cyimda1

Posted by headachequeen on January 8, 2004, at 16:06:38

In reply to Topamax and migraines, posted by cyimda1 on January 8, 2004, at 12:53:51

> Kat--
>
> Wow--that makes me feel better. The migraines do seem to be slowing slightly. Down to a size 10?? Sixty pounds wow!! What kind of time frame are we talking about? I -- stupidly enough...didn't weigh myself when I started on Topamax at the beginning of November. But this was the first holiday season that I didn't binge. I also used to be a choc-aholic. No desire now, and I know they are a trigger for migraines as well as coca-cola and other caffeine products. Since all carbonated beverages taste much like "battery acid" now, I've gone almost exclusively to water so I'm sure that's helping the weight loss as well. How long did it take before you leveled off, and how quickly did the weight drop? Did you ever feel really weak because of it?

Funny but I hadn't thought about carbonated beverages... I just don't feel like drinking them any more... good thing too as the laryngo whatsis told me they are no longer to be on my list of what I am to drink anyway LOL along with alcoholic beverages (no great hardship there as far as I am concerned either)..
I used to drink a couple of cans of pop a day and not think about it.. and now if I do pour a glass of pop it sits there with perhaps a sip out of it until someone pours it down the drain... so that is probably another effect of the Topomax (Dr Jones would be so pleased to know that <G>)

The weight loss started almost immediately... three pounds in the first week and that was such a boost to my morale I must say as the antidepressants I had been on had increased my weight as well as my personal reaction to depression (eat like there may never be food again) and to think that I used to be a whole 96 or 97 pounds... sigh... those were the days...

by the end of the summer none of the clothes I owned including clothes I had bought to accommodate the change in size fit me... at the moment I have a guest room buried in clothes that I have tossed here and there as I tried to find things to wear over the Christmas period... and then by the end of September I was searching for slacks and skirts and jeans that were a size ten... from sixteen or so to a ten...
and then when I went on course in late October it seemed to level off.. or because I was so incredibly active... climbing, scrambling, crawling, etc... I was eating more in a day than I had eaten in a week or more prior to then...
I was still eating my yoghurt for breakfast and lunch with olives and cashews, about an ounce of each for snacks... but for dinner would have meat and a baked potato and a vegetable and sometimes even a dessert... a piece of pie or a couple of cookies...
now things are normal again, the Topomax normal that is.. I am not really interested in food during the day, although last night I ate a grilled chop and peas and tried to eat a baked potato... forget that one.. did eat the skin though, the best part LOL...
I seem to crave protein again and I know I have asked about that before on this board and no one seems to find that particular craving accompanying the medication but I have never had it before...
the levelling phase seems to have come to an end...
I find that while the size ten jeans and pants fit basically, the waists are too loose, loose enough to look sloppy and I have lost a couple more pounds again... and that is with the Christmas food chaos thrown in...
turkey and dressing and cranberries and potatoes and gravy and all that...
and gravy is something I have to have...
although I had no wish for seconds of anything... even mashed potatoes and gravy which last Christmas as other years has been an absolute obsession... and that despite the heavy depression that moved in to live with me this year...
So if I can lose a couple of pounds and an inch or so around the waist despite depression and still not crave chocolate...this stuff must really be effective...
I also find that I am not as interested in coffee now... and that is something to which I admit an addiction...
cannot finish the first cup in the morning...
I know, more than two cups causes dehydration,have heard it so often, but I drink it by the gallon as a rule, especially when I am writing or working... but lately, it is only when we are out that I finish a cup...
and that first cup sits there ignored... unheard of...
maybe I should quit taking this stuff LOL
I would be happy to lose another ten pounds...
very happy... but then I think I might worry????
of course I do not want the migraines back...
and I do not want to gain the weight back...
and I do not want the food cravings/binges back...
and I DO NOT WANT the seizures...
and I do not trust the other medication at all as far as the seizures are concerned..
saw my doctor today and his reaction was that the seizure was probably caused by stress...
and he fluffed it off... now that reaction causes stress... does he not realise how terrifying these things can be????
next appointment could be a real knock down drag out war if he continues with that casual approach...
I don't think that is what the neuro meant by management of treatment... surely????
kat

 

Topamax in all it's glory.

Posted by cyimda1 on January 8, 2004, at 22:53:31

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use cyimda1, posted by headachequeen on January 8, 2004, at 16:06:38

Funny but I hadn't thought about carbonated beverages... I just don't feel like drinking them any more... good thing too as the laryngo whatsis told me they are no longer to be on my list of what I am to drink anyway LOL along with alcoholic beverages (no great hardship there as far as I am concerned either)..
> I used to drink a couple of cans of pop a day and not think about it.. and now if I do pour a glass of pop it sits there with perhaps a sip out of it until someone pours it down the drain... so that is probably another effect of the Topomax (Dr Jones would be so pleased to know that <G>)
>
> The weight loss started almost immediately... three pounds in the first week and that was such a boost to my morale I must say as the antidepressants I had been on had increased my weight as well as my personal reaction to depression (eat like there may never be food again) and to think that I used to be a whole 96 or 97 pounds... sigh... those were the days...
>
> by the end of the summer none of the clothes I owned including clothes I had bought to accommodate the change in size fit me... at the moment I have a guest room buried in clothes that I have tossed here and there as I tried to find things to wear over the Christmas period... and then by the end of September I was searching for slacks and skirts and jeans that were a size ten... from sixteen or so to a ten...
> and then when I went on course in late October it seemed to level off.. or because I was so incredibly active... climbing, scrambling, crawling, etc... I was eating more in a day than I had eaten in a week or more prior to then...
> I was still eating my yoghurt for breakfast and lunch with olives and cashews, about an ounce of each for snacks... but for dinner would have meat and a baked potato and a vegetable and sometimes even a dessert... a piece of pie or a couple of cookies...
> now things are normal again, the Topomax normal that is.. I am not really interested in food during the day, although last night I ate a grilled chop and peas and tried to eat a baked potato... forget that one.. did eat the skin though, the best part LOL...
> I seem to crave protein again and I know I have asked about that before on this board and no one seems to find that particular craving accompanying the medication but I have never had it before...
> the levelling phase seems to have come to an end...
> I find that while the size ten jeans and pants fit basically, the waists are too loose, loose enough to look sloppy and I have lost a couple more pounds again... and that is with the Christmas food chaos thrown in...
> turkey and dressing and cranberries and potatoes and gravy and all that...
> and gravy is something I have to have...
> although I had no wish for seconds of anything... even mashed potatoes and gravy which last Christmas as other years has been an absolute obsession... and that despite the heavy depression that moved in to live with me this year...
> So if I can lose a couple of pounds and an inch or so around the waist despite depression and still not crave chocolate...this stuff must really be effective...
> I also find that I am not as interested in coffee now... and that is something to which I admit an addiction...
> cannot finish the first cup in the morning...
> I know, more than two cups causes dehydration,have heard it so often, but I drink it by the gallon as a rule, especially when I am writing or working... but lately, it is only when we are out that I finish a cup...
> and that first cup sits there ignored... unheard of...
> maybe I should quit taking this stuff LOL
> I would be happy to lose another ten pounds...
> very happy... but then I think I might worry????
> of course I do not want the migraines back...
> and I do not want to gain the weight back...
> and I do not want the food cravings/binges back...
> and I DO NOT WANT the seizures...
> and I do not trust the other medication at all as far as the seizures are concerned..
> saw my doctor today and his reaction was that the seizure was probably caused by stress...
> and he fluffed it off... now that reaction causes stress... does he not realise how terrifying these things can be????
> next appointment could be a real knock down drag out war if he continues with that casual approach...
> I don't think that is what the neuro meant by management of treatment... surely????
> kat
>

Now I really wish I had been on the ball and weighed myself--wish I had known about the effect AHEAD of time. I'm definitely fitting into clothes I haven't worn in a REALLY long time--so that's a plus...and I was amazed that I lost weight through Thanksgiving and Christmas BOTH. Oh sure--I like sweets--but I'm a CARB girl. Love bread..and now it just sits on my plate. As a matter of fact everything just sort of sits on my plate. Before I had the food down my throat in record time--now it just sits there until it looks even more unappetizing. What exactly is that all about??

Carbonated beverages were a complete surprise, but the first time I tried one after the Topamax--I thought I just got a bad can out of the machine. Finally I sat down with my husband and 4 or 5 bottles of different brands and made him try them with me.

I also lost all craving for coffee, hot cocoa, etc. No desire at all. I'm just wondering -- since I lost so much weight already at such a small dosage, now that my dosage is being increased by more than 100% (from 30mg to 75) if I'm going to naturally plateau or if (HA HA -- this is joke-able) I would hit a point where I'd actually lose too much or not be able to control the loss of weight. MIND YOU I'M NOWHERE NEAR THAT NOW. I started this venture in the neighborhood of a 14/16. I think I'm in a 12 now--though I'm only trying on old clothes nothing new.. time for a shopping spree (whee hoo). By the way--noticing the same thing with the waist. I think I'm gonna try to hit the gym to at least tone somewhat so that as I lose it looks "normal"?? But if I'm in a 12 from a 16 with 30mg, and I've only been on it two months, and he's boosting me to 75mg...am I going to shrink away? Boy wouldn't that be great?? Ha!

Migraines seem to be slowing and the seizures which were relatively mild are all but gone, so I could stay on this stuff forever. The key is lots of water to avoid the potential for kidney stones though right??

Mic

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use cyimda1

Posted by headachequeen on January 8, 2004, at 23:02:19

In reply to Topamax in all it's glory., posted by cyimda1 on January 8, 2004, at 22:53:31


increased by more than 100% (from 30mg to 75) if I'm going to naturally plateau or if (HA HA -- this is joke-able) I would hit a point where I'd actually lose too much or not be able to control the loss of weight.


I worried about that too but it seems that I have reached a point that some sort of control has come into effect and I am eating some sort of sensible amount of food on my own.. something that I have been unable to do for a long time...
first the anorexia routine then came the depression when food seemed to provide comfort...
but during December and into the first few days of January when I was battling depression I did not gain any weight...
so things seem to be controlling themselves I know it is not me...
I am not ready for a size eight jean or slacks but the waist of the ten is much too loose... not sure what to do there... and hate to look sloppy...
how things change in our outlook LOL
kat

 

Re: Topamax Experiences?

Posted by Sabeen on January 11, 2004, at 15:09:04

In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences? Beck, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 0:14:01

Hey Beck, I too am having a real problem with the crankies! and I am pretty worried as I start a new job in customer service in a week... I currently find everything super annoying and have a very short attention span. I just started taking Topamax 2 days ago though so hoping it will pass soon...how are you doing now?

 

Re: weight loss

Posted by kka on January 11, 2004, at 19:54:25

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use cyimda1, posted by headachequeen on January 8, 2004, at 23:02:19

> I started Topamax to counteract weight gain with Anti-D's and aslo help my Migrains. I have finally worked my way up to 125-150 mgs a day in three months. Although I have not had hardly and side effects since I have slowly increased the dose, I have not seen ANY weight loss. The urge to binge or over-eat has dimished, any I definitely eat less, but I am very fustrated with the lack of weight loss. What dosage has anyone begun to see real weight loss? Any input would be great! Thanks
> increased by more than 100% (from 30mg to 75) if I'm going to naturally plateau or if (HA HA -- this is joke-able) I would hit a point where I'd actually lose too much or not be able to control the loss of weight.
>
>
> I worried about that too but it seems that I have reached a point that some sort of control has come into effect and I am eating some sort of sensible amount of food on my own.. something that I have been unable to do for a long time...
> first the anorexia routine then came the depression when food seemed to provide comfort...
> but during December and into the first few days of January when I was battling depression I did not gain any weight...
> so things seem to be controlling themselves I know it is not me...
> I am not ready for a size eight jean or slacks but the waist of the ten is much too loose... not sure what to do there... and hate to look sloppy...
> how things change in our outlook LOL
> kat

 

Re: Topamax Experiences?

Posted by Beck on January 11, 2004, at 21:57:04

In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by Sabeen on January 11, 2004, at 15:09:04

> Hey Beck, I too am having a real problem with the crankies! and I am pretty worried as I start a new job in customer service in a week... I currently find everything super annoying and have a very short attention span. I just started taking Topamax 2 days ago though so hoping it will pass soon...how are you doing now?

Super annoying with a short attention span, I can totaly relate. I would say hang in there, it does pass. Mine did after the first two weeks, sort of,(not all the way gone but I think somthing else is going on there)anyway, yeah it should go away hopefuly. Hope it goes well with your job.


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