Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 50878

Shown: posts 795 to 819 of 1085. Go back in thread:

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing

Posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 21:41:36

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:34:22

Lamictal plus topomax? Whaddaya think? Problem: refractory bipolar depression. And what about the hair loss thing? I missed that somewhere. Is it common to have hair loss with topomax?

Thanks.
Emme

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing

Posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 21:45:57

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 21:41:36

> Lamictal plus topomax? Whaddaya think? Problem: refractory bipolar depression. And what about the hair loss thing? I missed that somewhere. Is it common to have hair loss with topomax?

Sounds intriguing. How much Lamictal are you taking? I'm in the same boat you are.


- Scott

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing Emme

Posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:54:12

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 21:41:36

topamax can cause hairloss

 

Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS dragonfly25

Posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 23:00:49

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:34:22


not in my hair loss but in thinking. hopefully my mood doesn't change.
> dragonfly

Dragonfly....

I am a redhead, and if you are acquainted with any redheada, then you will know how frightfully arrogantly vain we are about our hair... I see a lot of nodding heads out there, especially among the redheads who are among us <g>

My hair is one of my two major vanities, and I find no shame in so admitting. However, I am also dependent upon two medications (why is that the word 'drug' is so abhorrent in this society?) that are hard on the hair, both of them can lead to hair loss, dry hair.
Tegretol is really the worst thing I can think of for the hair, short of using Nair instead of shampoo. (Do they still make that stuff?) Apparently Topomax does much the same to the hair. Murphia when she was present on the list told us that we could fight the damage by taking Biotin (2400 mg a day was the suggested dosage)
As I have mentioned, all too frequently for the old-stagers, I am sure, I breed, show and train dogs, a breed with coat and skin problems. Because of these problems, we include biotin and vitamin c in megadoses, along with vitamin E and zinc so the E is metabolized properly, Evening Primrose Oil or Borage Oil, fish oil, CLA, and I am trying to remember the routine... it is natural to do when I am preparing the meals for the dogs, but hard to remember... I hear the murmurs about cognitive problems... no, it is just that I am in the office and the prep area for the dog food is in another part of the house... for that matter as I left the dogs at the training centre rather than fly them back and forth at huge expense in order to complete the training courses I want to finish, I am out of practice... kelp, and a couple of other supplements and vitamins...
It never occurred to me until Murphia mentioned the damage to hair (familiar to Tegretol users) and that Topomax leeches the vitamins from Topomax users, that it might be a healthy thing to use vitamins and supplements myself...
even without Topomax, given the diet of today's society it might be a wise idea... oh vitamin D comes to mind...

but the C, E, zinc and Evening Primrose Oil and the other oil whose name eludes me with the biotin will help with dry hair or hair loss...

and if it works for my hair it will work for anyone... trust me...
there is no hair in the little strainer thing-y in the drain after a shower and shampoo and I am really paranoid about that...
I have very thick hair ... when it was long it took me an hour to dry it using a dryer... if I left it to dry itself it could take as long as six hours; now that it is excessively short it air dries in three hours...
and I do not want it thinning let alone falling out...
as I said, I am extremely vain about my hair and my voice
oh, and I am not really excited about wrinkles either...
Topomax would truly be the wonder drug if it prevented wrinkles...
kat

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS headachequeen

Posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 23:15:33

In reply to Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS dragonfly25, posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 23:00:49

hi kat

i feel like i just read a description of my hair! how weird. i haev really thick, redish hair and it is falling out at a crazy pace. :( i am soo vain about my hair as well. and i have been on all the drugs that cause your hair to fall out. the worst was valproic acid. i took zinc and selenium, but i went off that and stopped teh vitimans and didn't have a problem with my hair for a long time. i used those sudless shampoos which i hated, and i have bottles of vitamins, but i am not good with remembering things (must be the topamax :))
but i hadn't heard about some of the things you listed so i am going to check them out.
but i wasn't clear- did u say your hair stopped falling out? was it from using all that u mentioned or what was your combo?
thx
dragonfly

 

re: the benefits of topamax

Posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

In reply to Re: Topamax for bipolar depression Karen_kay, posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 20:49:39

Hi, I am a researcher and have been researching Topamax for about 7 years. In all clinical tests, topamax was more effective on mania, and not very effective for depression. In many documented tests, topamax actually exacerbated depression. However, topa can have varying effects on different people. If it helps your depression, that is great! But clinically, it has tested to go straight to the manic side of depression. As is zonegran, the new ms out of Japan, and very similar to topa. Hugs. Murph


> Hi Karen_kay!
>
> In re: Topamax
>
> > > > I take it for Bipolar Disorder and it ahs been the only medication that has been able to effectively stabilize my mood.
>
> > > Do you think Topamax would work for bipolar depression? In what ways does it improve your condition?
>
> > I am dx Bipolar I Disorder (which means I have manic episodes as well as depressive) but at the time I started Topamax, I had been having a depressive episode which lasted about 3 years in duration
>
> > From what he tells me, Topamax is better for depressive episodes than manic episodes.
>
> > So, in short, my main problem at the time was Bipolar depression. I wasn't concerned with a manic episode when I began Topamax.
>
>
> Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
>
> Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have been stuck in an unremitting state of severe depression for 25 years. I am only minimally responsive to Lamictal + tricyclic. I'm going to put Topamax on my list of things to try.
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
> - Scott

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by SLS on December 31, 2003, at 7:57:11

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

> Hi, I am a researcher and have been researching Topamax for about 7 years. In all clinical tests, topamax was more effective on mania, and not very effective for depression. In many documented tests, topamax actually exacerbated depression. However, topa can have varying effects on different people. If it helps your depression, that is great! But clinically, it has tested to go straight to the manic side of depression. As is zonegran, the new ms out of Japan, and very similar to topa. Hugs. Murph


Hi Murph.

Thanks for the input.

Have you seen Zonegran be effective for any kind of depression?

Which mood stabilizers do you feel have the best chance of treating bipolar depression?

Thank you.


- Scott

 

Topomax and HAIR LOSS and the dread SELENIUM

Posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 14:53:47

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 23:15:33


> but i hadn't heard about some of the things you listed so i am going to check them out.
> but i wasn't clear- did u say your hair stopped falling out? was it from using all that u mentioned or what was your combo?
> thx
> dragonfly

AAARRGGGHHHH
Watch the selenium
in fact take it ONLY, I repeat ONLY in miniscule quantities and then ONLY and again I repeat ONLY as directd by a doctor I almost wrote vet...
selenium is one of the trace elements and has such a wild effect...
it can cause sterility if absent in the mix... but it can also cause spontaneous abortion and terrible birth defects if ingested at the wromg time and does nothing for the hair...
it is only effective for the thyroid....
so it is not really linked to a Topomax side effect...
kat

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 15:00:06

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

> Hi, I am a researcher and have been researching Topamax for about 7 years. In all clinical tests, topamax was more effective on mania, and not very effective for depression. In many documented tests, topamax actually exacerbated depression. However, topa can have varying effects on different people. If it helps your depression, that is great! But clinically, it has tested to go straight to the manic side of depression. As is zonegran, the new ms out of Japan, and very similar to topa. Hugs. Murph


MURPH!!! Happy New Year...
and so glad to see a post from you...
now, some information, please...
does this mean that Topomax is going to kill the 'artistic temperament' that is the manic in me????
SOB....
and what is an 'ms"?
and as topomax is really making a difference with these silly and annoying and at times devastating not to mention embarrassing seizures, does this mean that I am going to have to go back on anti-depressants to deal with the depression that, as of today, is officially recognised?
While I do not want to spend the rest of my life with these times of blackness, neither do I want the joys (oh yeah) of zyprexa and its relatives... I know, picky picky...
but there has to be something better...
kat who is never satisfied....

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing

Posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:32:59

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 21:45:57

> > Lamictal plus topomax? Whaddaya think? Problem: refractory bipolar depression. And what about the hair loss thing? I missed that somewhere. Is it common to have hair loss with topomax?
>
> Sounds intriguing. How much Lamictal are you taking? I'm in the same boat you are.
>
>
> - Scott

hi Scott,

350 mg Lamictal. Are you taking it? How much? Any sustained positive effects? I did not do well with topomax the first time I tried it, but I wasn't taking Lamcictal then. I'd like to keep my brain able to think, but if the cognitive problems wear off, that would make it less scary.

Emme

 

Zonegran make more depressed?

Posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:40:37

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

Hi. Has anyone tried zonegran and found it worsened their depression? Is there mention in literature of zonegran exacerbating depression? I could swear Zonegran made me more depressed and interfered with sleep to the point of exhaustion in a very short time.

Emme

 

re: the benefits of topamax SLS

Posted by Sooshi on December 31, 2003, at 17:48:16

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by SLS on December 31, 2003, at 7:57:11

Scott-I also take take Topamax for bipolar depression (BPII), and did some research of my own (and with my pdoc)and found out that Topa can actually aggravate depression, so I take an antidepressant with it (Effexor XR), but many take Topa with Lamictal, which has great antidepressant properties. I think it's great that some can get good ms (mood stabilization) on Topa alone (wish it was me!), but most can't. Good luck to you!

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by Karen_kay on December 31, 2003, at 20:02:22

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

Hmmmm.. Proof positive my doctor really is a dumb ass. But, I've always had a suspicion anyway. Yeah, Topamax has worked wonderfully for my depression. I saw results almost immedietely. It took some fine tuning to get to the correct dose, but I'm pretty happy with Topamax. My Pdoc wanted to keep me on Abilify for ever because research indicates it also helps control manic episodes. I finally quit taking it on my own and told him several months later. He wasn't too happy, but he can't hold me down and shove pills down my throat. Not that I wouldn't mind him holding me down :)

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS headachequeen

Posted by Karen_kay on December 31, 2003, at 20:09:58

In reply to Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS dragonfly25, posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 23:00:49

Yeah girl, I hear you about the hair thing. And the wrinkles too. Good grief, I'm only 24 and I'm going grey :( ICK! But, My hair is SO dry from Topamax. But, I buy expensive products and use Paul Mitchell's The Conditioner and that helps. And when I get my hair done, you can get a protein treatment and that helps a lot as well. Also, if you don't blow dry your hair (I know, it sucks!!!!!) it helps to keep it from drying out. And only wash it every other day or every three days. It keeps the natural oils in and keeps it from drying out as well. My problem is that my hair is color treated as well (with a lot of color! Red, with blonde streaks and brown chunks! It's cute :) I say, I'm young, have fun!!) so, that tends to dry it out even more. My hair has always fallen out a bit, but not much more than usual. Thank goodness. I'd stop my medication if I began to lose hair. Well, I guess I'd talk to my Pdoc first. He did say that he could give me meds to counteract that if it happened. Crossing my fingers, Karen

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing Emme

Posted by SLS on January 1, 2004, at 0:07:03

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:32:59

> 350 mg Lamictal. Are you taking it? How much?

I am currently taking 200mg. I experience a better antidepressant effect at 300mg, but it wreaks havoc with my memory and cognition at that dosage. By itself, Lamictal does nothing for me. To be of any sustained benefit, I need to take an antidepressant.

> Any sustained positive effects?

I only experience mild relief, but it is better than nothing. At least I can function well enough to take care of the basics.

> I did not do well with topomax the first time I tried it, but I wasn't taking Lamcictal then. I'd like to keep my brain able to think, but if the cognitive problems wear off, that would make it less scary.

Yes. Some of the posts along this thread are encouraging.


- Scott

 

re: the benefits of topamax SLS

Posted by Murphia on January 1, 2004, at 6:12:44

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by SLS on December 31, 2003, at 7:57:11

Hi Scott: Well, sorry to say, the best meds for first defense of bipolar are lithium and depakote. However, trileptal and lamictal are my personal choices to recommend to try first. It all depends on your type of bipolar symptoms, as there are very different manifestations. Some people are more manic, some more depressed, and a lot of people are mixed, which is truly heartbreaking. Mixed, I think, is what a lot of people are, and don't realize it. However, back to your question: zonegran acts just like topamax, goes straight to mania, and not good for depression. If both depression and mania are your issues, topa works well on the mania side, combined with lamictal, which works on the depression (both being mood stabilizers), seem to be very popular, and work very well. As always, your body, your symptoms and working with a good Pdoc, all must be taken into consideration. Hugs. Murph

 

re: the benefits of topamax headachequeen

Posted by Murphia on January 1, 2004, at 6:25:00

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 15:00:06

Thanks and Happy New Year to you too! May this be the year that you really start feeling better. An MS is a mood stabilizer. When you say you have depression that is recognized, does that mean your doc is diagnosing this? Or is this just something you know is going on. Yes, topa can make you flat; and many people grieve for the manic euphoria and creativity that they miss when going on an MS. However, it doesn't have to be that way. For all I've studied, it's still a dance of meds. Most people have to go through with the trial and error of med cocktails, until they find the one that best suits them, and allows them to live happy normal lives. It is possible, but it takes work. If we only knew more, we could produce those magic pills that will take care of everything. But we don't. It's a matter of finding the right combination to hit the neurotransmitters at the right time. A delicate dance of meds. I hate it. Everyone I know does. But for many, worth it once they find their combo. Hang in there. It sounds as if you are so actively participating in your health, you are one person I know will get there. Hugs and Good Cheer! Murph

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen

Posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:03:32

In reply to Topomax and HAIR LOSS and the dread SELENIUM, posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 14:53:47

> selenium is one of the trace elements and has such a wild effect...
> it can cause sterility if absent in the mix... but it can also cause spontaneous abortion and terrible birth defects if ingested at the wromg time and does nothing for the hair...
> it is only effective for the thyroid....
> so it is not really linked to a Topomax side effect...
> kat

hi kat,
thanks for the info. i am sorry if this sounds repetitive but i didn't understand what you meant, i am really hung over. were you saying that it will absorb differently at anytime and if you don't get enough you can become sterile and if you get too much you can cause birth defects? and for the birth defects is this only while pregnant? i am sooo scared, i was taking zinc and selenium for about a year when i was quite young and i am pretty careless about stuff like that. do you think i should worry? thx
dragonfly

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use dragonfly25

Posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 9:56:40

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:03:32

> > selenium is one of the trace elements and has such a wild effect...
> > it can cause sterility if absent in the mix... but it can also cause spontaneous abortion and terrible birth defects if ingested at the wromg time and does nothing for the hair...
> > it is only effective for the thyroid....
> > so it is not really linked to a Topomax side effect...
> > kat
>
> hi kat,
> thanks for the info. i am sorry if this sounds repetitive but i didn't understand what you meant, i am really hung over. were you saying that it will absorb differently at anytime and if you don't get enough you can become sterile and if you get too much you can cause birth defects? and for the birth defects is this only while pregnant? i am sooo scared, i was taking zinc and selenium for about a year when i was quite young and i am pretty careless about stuff like that. do you think i should worry? thx
> dragonfly
>

I'm sorry if I'm jumping in to other people's conversation, but I'd like to say that selenium is an essential mineral, and toxic effects (called selenosis) generally arise from groundwater with excessive amounts of dissolved selenium salts. The toxic effects are totally reversible on reduction of selenium intake.

In contrast (and because we have an international audience), it should be noted that most of Europe has too little selenium in the soil to meet even the most basic selenium requirement via intake from food and water. Up until the advent of the European Union, imported North American wheat was the primary source of selenium for many Europeans. With internal trade rules now in effect, little NA wheat is imported any more. So, if you're European, I can almost guarantee you are selenium deficient, unless you take a daily supplement.

Mercury exposure irreversible binds selenium. If you've amalgam fillings in your teeth, you're getting daily mercury exposure. If you breathe, or eat food, you're getting daily mercury exposure. If you're stressed or burned out, I can guarantee your selenium stores are depleted, even not taking into account mercury exposure.

Selenium toxicity is thought to occur at chronic intakes of greater than 850 micrograms per day, in the most sensitive individuals (chronic being defined as greater than six months exposure at that level). Many Europeans have intakes around 30 micrograms per day. North Americans tend to be around 80-110 micrograms per day. Subjective mood improvement has been demonstrated on supplementation at 100 mcg per day. I personally believe a daily supplement of 200 mcg per day is prudent.

Selenium is essential for proper thyroid function. It also serves as a primary antioxidant defender in neural tissues. It is the safest way to detoxify chronic low-level mercury exposure.

I have never heard of reproductive issues related to selenium exposure, but I would be most interested in learning about that.

Lar

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover

Posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 10:02:05

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use dragonfly25, posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 9:56:40

thank you, that is a relief, i don't live in europe, but i am very stressed:)

 

re: the benefits of topamax

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:12:45

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:03:32

> >
>
> hi kat,
> thanks for the info.


Dragonfly, I wouldn't worry NOW, but don't continue taking it... this is more info I learned the hard way and from the dogs... this is a selenium poor area.. none in the soil... and as the dogs were having problems conceiving, as the girls went long periods with no litters, not uncommon in this breed but frustrating as we waited anxiously for the next stage in the plan... and one vet suggested adding selenium in miniscule amounts to the diet...
things got worse, the girls began delivering early with litters of dead puppies and on occasion puppies born live but with their internal organs external... about a year ago I discovered the effect it could have on a pregnancy ...spontaneaous abortion, and the potential defects... stopped adding it to the diet... and we had our first pups since selenium ... healthy happy incredible puppies...
the stuff does not have lingering effects... it is simply not good to use unless there is a need identified by a doctor... and then it needs to be monitored by the doctor...

if you are not using it now, then don't worry about it. Just don't start using it again and things will not be a problem...
it won't help your hair anyway and it does not battle any of the side effects I have seen identified unless topomax also causes thyroid inconsistencies and if so then that is not something that one should decide to deal with on one's own...

not to worry and bonne et heureuse annee
kat

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:22:46

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax headachequeen, posted by Murphia on January 1, 2004, at 6:25:00

> Thanks and Happy New Year to you too! May this be the year that you really start feeling better. An MS is a mood stabilizer. When you say you have depression that is recognized, does that mean your doc is diagnosing this? Or is this just something you know is going on. Yes, topa can make you flat; and many people grieve for the manic euphoria and creativity that they miss when going on an MS. However, it doesn't have to be that way. For all I've studied, it's still a dance of meds. Most people have to go through with the trial and error of med cocktails, until they find the one that best suits them, and allows them to live happy normal lives. It is possible, but it takes work. If we only knew more, we could produce those magic pills that will take care of everything. But we don't. It's a matter of finding the right combination to hit the neurotransmitters at the right time. A delicate dance of meds. I hate it. Everyone I know does. But for many, worth it once they find their combo. Hang in there. It sounds as if you are so actively participating in your health, you are one person I know will get there. Hugs and Good Cheer! Murph

Oh, Murph, I do hope you are right... I intend to get there and then thumb my nose at that delightful mental midget who terms himself a psychiatrist (evil grin there)
Yes, finally they have decided that just maybe I might actually be suffering from depression after all... who'd a thunk it?
and now they are deciding how to cope with it...
Hello??? they don't really need to cope with it... I am the one who has to cope with it...I am the one who has to live with it...
so maybe I should be invited into the discussions on coping...
Somehow these doctors forget that the patients exist.. I really love the way they can talk about us as if we were not in the room or discuss us when we are not there then present us with a decision... the way I decide on redecorating a room... which is of course a combination of inanimate and unthinking objects...
The side effects of Topomax do not bother me very much as I have learned to deal with them... mostly through this group of people, and you have given me a great deal of information...
however, I think I have found the one side effect that gives me cause for concern... if the manic part, the creative part of me is to be quashed, then I am no longer the creative person and there goes the writer, the artist... and where am I then...
I like being seizure-free I have to admit and the other anti-seizure med was not accomplishing that... I am not at all creative when I am dragging around in the post-episodic exhaustion state either...
LOL I want it all and I want it NOW...
I want to be seizure-free and I want to be depression-free and I want to be creative and flying high from that feeling that comes with reaching another of those wondrous moments of success... and I would like daily doses of that euphoria please...
greedy aren't I....
kat

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:35:16

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use dragonfly25, posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 9:56:40

I live in an area where there is absolutely no selenium in the soil or ground water... and not in Europe but in North America which is what led to the suggestion of adding selenium to the diet we use for the dogs...
it is not residual in the body... and is what we call a trace element in the minerals in the body ... we do not need much of it at all... taking more than 25 mcg is excessive really

if you are concerned about a deficiency of it, it is safer to take it naturally...
garlic, red meat, shellfish, fish, grapes (but never for dogs), broccoli, eggs, organ meat, chickent is an anti-oxidant and works with Vitamin E to boost the immune system...

It binds toxic metals such as mercury and cadmium, flsuhing them from the system, and works with iodine to enhance and unhealthy thyroid function...

but in most of North America it is best taken with medical supervision or direction as it comes in questionable dosages and can do harm as much as it does good...

This is not a trace mineral to be playing with on one's own wick... we tend to read things in books on vitamins and so on and jump in and diagnose ourselves or treat ourselves and this is not the thing to do
especially when trying to deal with side effects of a medication as this board was discussing...
when the supplement in question will do nothing to help it... and might, especially when taken in large amounts do harm ...
just a comment and an opinion based on ugly experience ... knowing that most of this region has more than sufficient of it in the soil, water and produce...
to the opposite, any vegetables produced in this region, and that would be the meat and vegetables I would use for my dogs and myself, have absolutely no selenium in them...
kat

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen

Posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 14:56:50

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover, posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 13:35:16

> taking more than 25 mcg is excessive really

No it is not. Please refer to the most authoritative review of the subject I have ever seen:
http://books.nap.edu/books/0309069351/html/284.html#pagetop

> It binds toxic metals such as mercury and cadmium, flsuhing them from the system, and works with iodine to enhance and unhealthy thyroid function...

It binds mercury, but does not flush it from the body. It stabilizes the mercury so that it can do no more harm, but the mercury remains in your tissues until death releases it. One of the most intense point-source anthropogenic (man-made) mercury emissions comes from crematoriums. Some of the mercury is from amalgam dental work, but the rest arises from tissue stores.

> but in most of North America it is best taken with medical supervision or direction as it comes in questionable dosages and can do harm as much as it does good...

That is a very misleading statement. The Lowest Observeable Adverse Effects Level (LOAEL) is 900 mcg/day, chronic ingestion. Individuals in the most seleniforous region of the United States, in Wyoming, consume in excess of 400 mcg/day seleniuum, with no adverse effects. The highest intake was estimated at about 800 mcg/day, with no adverse effect on health.

> This is not a trace mineral to be playing with on one's own wick... we tend to read things in books on vitamins and so on and jump in and diagnose ourselves or treat ourselves and this is not the thing to do

I recognize that caution is advised. But my recommendations are cautious.

> especially when trying to deal with side effects of a medication as this board was discussing...

....which can be ameliorated by mineral supplements.

> when the supplement in question will do nothing to help it... and might, especially when taken in large amounts do harm ...

...I'm not advocating large amounts. There is nothing at all large about 200 mcg/day selenium.

Moreover, following your suggestion, I researched any link between selenium and reproductive health, and found that selenium deficiency is associated with low sperm motility. I found no evidence for a toxic effect from excessive selenium ingestion.

Selenium supplementation (in excess of the requirement for stabilization of plasma glutathione peroxidase concentrations) is associated with a reduction in cancer risk, and with mood enhancement.

Here's a review article that clearly states that supplementation of 100-200 mcg/day selenium is necessary for the cancer-protective effects. There are numerous selenium supplementation trials underway right now, testing the effect on a variety of differenct cancers.

Mutat Res. 2001 Apr 18;475(1-2):123-39.

The protective role of selenium on genetic damage and on cancer.

El-Bayoumy K.

Division of Cancer Etiology and Prevention, American Health Foundation, 1 Dana Road, 10595, Valhalla, NY, USA. kelbayoumy@aol.com

Collectively, results from epidemiologic studies, laboratory bioassays, and human clinical intervention trials clearly support a protective role of selenium against cancer development. Several hypotheses have been proposed to explain these observations. Increased genomic instability, either inherent or induced by exogenous agents (mutagens or carcinogens), has been considered as a primary event leading to neoplastic transformation. This report deals specifically with the evidence for a role of selenium in the inhibition of carcinogen-induced covalent DNA adduct formation and retardation of oxidative damage to DNA, lipids and proteins, and for modulating cellular and molecular events that are critical in cell growth inhibition and in the multi-step carcinogenesis process. At present, the bulk of our knowledge on the role of selenium on genetic stability is based primarily on animal data and from studies conducted in in vitro systems. Studies performed in vitro showed that the dose and form of selenium compounds are critical factors with regard to cellular responses. Inorganic (at doses up to 10microM) and organic selenium compounds (at doses equal to or greater than 10microM) elicit distinctly different cellular responses. The recommended daily allowance (RDA) is 50-70 microgramSe per day for healthy adults; with 40 microgramSe as minimum requirement. Less than 11 microgramSe will definitely put people at risk of deficiency that would be expected to cause genetic damage. Daily doses of 100-200 microgramSe inhibited genetic damage and cancer development in humans. About 400 microgramSe per day is considered an upper limit. Clearly, doses above the RDA are needed to inhibit genetic damage and cancer. However, it has been hypothesized that the intake of excessive doses of selenium may cause oxidative damage, leading to genomic instability. The use of a cocktail consisting of selenium, and other vitamins and minerals appears to be a promising approach to inhibit genetic damage and the development of cancer. It is the author's recommendation that development of mechanism-based hypotheses that can be tested in pilot studies in different populations prior to a large-scale clinical trial in humans, is of paramount importance in order to better understand the role of selenium on genetic stability and cancer.


Here are a couple references for mood effects of selenium supps:

Biol Psychiatry. 1991 Jun 1;29(11):1092-8.

The impact of selenium supplementation on mood.

Benton D, Cook R.

Department of Psychology, University College, Swansea, Wales, UK.

The possibility that a subclinical deficiency of the trace element selenium might exist in a sample of the British population was examined by giving a selenium supplement for 5 weeks. Using a double-blind cross-over design, 50 subjects received either a placebo or 100 mcg selenium on a daily basis. On three occasions they filled in the Profile of Moods States. A food frequency questionnaire was used to estimate the intake of selenium in the diet. Intake was associated with a general elevation of mood and in particular, a decrease in anxiety. The change in mood when taking the active tablet was correlated with the level of selenium in the diet, which was estimated from a food frequency questionnaire. The lower the level of selenium in the diet the more reports of anxiety, depression, and tiredness, decreased following 5 weeks of selenium therapy. The results are discussed in terms of the low level of selenium in the food chain in some parts of the world.


Nutr Neurosci. 2002 Dec;5(6):363-74.

Selenium intake, mood and other aspects of psychological functioning.

Benton D.

Department of Psychology, University of Wales Swansea, Swansea SA2 8PP, Wales, UK. d.benton@swansea.ac.uk

Selenium is an essential trace element although the level of selenium in food items reflects the soil in which they were grown and thus varies markedly between different parts of the world. The metabolism of selenium by the brain differs from other organs in that at times of deficiency the brain retains selenium to a greater extent. The preferential retention of selenium in the brain suggests that it plays important functions. To date mood is the clearest example of an aspect of psychological functioning that is modified by selenium intake. Five studies have reported that a low selenium intake was associated with poorer mood. The underlying mechanism is unclear although a response to supplementation was found with doses greater than those needed to produce maximal activity of the selenoprotein glutathione peroxidase. Although the functions of many selenoproteins are unknown some play important roles in anti-oxidant mechanisms. As there are suggestions that oxidative injury plays a role in normal aging, schizophrenia, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease, the possible role of selenium is considered. Although there is evidence that supplementation with anti-oxidant vitamins shown some promise with Alzheimer's patients, and in preventing the development of tardive dyskinesia in schizophrenics taking neuroleptics, a role for selenium has been little considered.

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use Larry Hoover

Posted by headachequeen on January 1, 2004, at 15:07:30

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 14:56:50


>
> It binds mercury, but does not flush it from the body. It stabilizes the mercury so that it can do no more harm, but the mercury remains in your tissues until death releases it.


I was using the Mindell references for healthy use of supplements... as far as the intake of these things was concerned... and quoted him with regard to the flushing... and the dosage...

There are specialists now who recommend that one have the metal fillings removed and white amalgam I forget the name of the stuff fillings used to replace them; apparently the metal fillings, mostly mercury, cause a serious disruption in the body's balance and function... my orthopaedist has suggested it... and I am sure he is right...
except I have this great fear of dentists....
fear???? terror...
when we were kids one was never allowed to leave school for the dentist appointment, and the dental officer was an alcoholic... by the time we got there he was shattered... as my mouth was not big enough for adult teeth the DO at our last base had determined that certain adult teeth had to be removed; then we were posted... this new guy was to continue the work... he froze one side of my mouth and pulled teeth on the other... I do not go willingly to a dentist... and to have all my fillings replaced???? I'll keep the mercury ones thank you...
And darts used to be balanced with mercury... with which we used to play as children... and teachers brought mercury into classrooms... and and and...
scary thoughts indeed

kat


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.