Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 50878

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Re: bridgey Karen_kay

Posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 18:08:09

In reply to Re: bridgey dragonfly25, posted by Karen_kay on December 30, 2003, at 15:34:49

hi karen
i am glad you are having such a great experience with topamax. it has helped my mood as well, but after coming on this site i read alot of scary things. and what someone may mean to express as positive may be interpreted totally differently by the reader. b/c i was more turned off it than on.
just thought id point something out- i said i hadn't seen a positive comment YET. i might not have read yours. or any of the other positive comments...i was drawn to the negative subjects.
dragonfly

> Hello!! I just have to respond to your post....
>
> i hadn't read one positive one yet
>
> **I beg to differ... I think that my posts have been quite positive. While I did have a problem with some cognition difficulties on Topamax, I consider Topamax to be my "Wonder Drug" of sorts... I have nothing bad to say about it. I take it for Bipolar Disorder and it ahs been the only medication that has been able to effectively stabilize my mood. And the side effects do eventually go away! That is the point I was trying to make in my posts. It took a few months for my cognition problems to work out but they did. And I couldn't be happier!!! Good luck with your decision, but I did want you to know, there were positive posts out there! :) Karen


 

Topomax is really not such a bad thing dragonfly25

Posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 18:43:52

In reply to Re: bridgey Karen_kay, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 18:08:09

b/c i was more turned off it than on.
> just thought id point something out- i said i hadn't seen a positive comment YET. i might not have read yours. or any of the other positive comments...i was drawn to the negative subjects.

Dragonfly, could it be that you prefer to be drawn to the negative and turned off the drug rather than be drawn to the positive and given a positive opinion of it?
kat

 

Re: Topamax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen

Posted by Karen_kay on December 30, 2003, at 20:48:07

In reply to Topomax is really not such a bad thing dragonfly25, posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 18:43:52

Hmmm.. interesting theory! :) I originally wanted to try Topamax because I read it may help dump some extra weight and Lithium as well as depression caused me to gain a few pounds so I figured I would try Topamax and see if it worked. And I lost some weight in the meantime. And it stabilized my mood! It's like two drugs in one! PERFECTO!!!!

 

Re: Topamax for bipolar depression Karen_kay

Posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 20:49:39

In reply to Re: bridgey SLS, posted by Karen_kay on December 30, 2003, at 17:45:41

Hi Karen_kay!

In re: Topamax

> > > I take it for Bipolar Disorder and it ahs been the only medication that has been able to effectively stabilize my mood.

> > Do you think Topamax would work for bipolar depression? In what ways does it improve your condition?

> I am dx Bipolar I Disorder (which means I have manic episodes as well as depressive) but at the time I started Topamax, I had been having a depressive episode which lasted about 3 years in duration

> From what he tells me, Topamax is better for depressive episodes than manic episodes.

> So, in short, my main problem at the time was Bipolar depression. I wasn't concerned with a manic episode when I began Topamax.


Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have been stuck in an unremitting state of severe depression for 25 years. I am only minimally responsive to Lamictal + tricyclic. I'm going to put Topamax on my list of things to try.

Thanks again.


- Scott

 

Topomax is really not such a bad thing Karen_kay

Posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 21:04:15

In reply to Re: Topamax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen, posted by Karen_kay on December 30, 2003, at 20:48:07

> Hmmm.. interesting theory! :) I originally wanted to try Topamax because I read it may help dump some extra weight and Lithium as well as depression caused me to gain a few pounds so I figured I would try Topamax and see if it worked. And I lost some weight in the meantime. And it stabilized my mood! It's like two drugs in one! PERFECTO!!!!


I had never heard of it. I hadn't even heard of it when it was prescribed for me... the neuro simply said that he was prescribing an alternate anti-seizure med that was known to deal with migraines and as an aside said it had one serious side effect.. it hadn't occurred to me that the migraine bit was a side effect (dumb or what?)... it caused weight loss...

when he handed me the schedule I saw the name...
now to see if it stabilizes MY mood
kat

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen

Posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:34:22

In reply to Topomax is really not such a bad thing dragonfly25, posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 18:43:52

>
> Dragonfly, could it be that you prefer to be drawn to the negative and turned off the drug rather than be drawn to the positive and given a positive opinion of it?
> kat

hi kat
i think that is a very good possibility ... i found this site searching for the side effects i was having from the drug, so obviously i would be drawn to those topics (which i don't find esp pleasant). but no, generally i am not drawn to negative things, and i really wanted to find someone to say my side effects were from something else. but what i discovered is that they are from the drug and people just get used to them.
anyway i notice a difference since lowering my dose, not in my hair loss but in thinking. hopefully my mood doesn't change.
dragonfly

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing

Posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 21:41:36

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:34:22

Lamictal plus topomax? Whaddaya think? Problem: refractory bipolar depression. And what about the hair loss thing? I missed that somewhere. Is it common to have hair loss with topomax?

Thanks.
Emme

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing

Posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 21:45:57

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 21:41:36

> Lamictal plus topomax? Whaddaya think? Problem: refractory bipolar depression. And what about the hair loss thing? I missed that somewhere. Is it common to have hair loss with topomax?

Sounds intriguing. How much Lamictal are you taking? I'm in the same boat you are.


- Scott

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing Emme

Posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:54:12

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by Emme on December 30, 2003, at 21:41:36

topamax can cause hairloss

 

Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS dragonfly25

Posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 23:00:49

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 21:34:22


not in my hair loss but in thinking. hopefully my mood doesn't change.
> dragonfly

Dragonfly....

I am a redhead, and if you are acquainted with any redheada, then you will know how frightfully arrogantly vain we are about our hair... I see a lot of nodding heads out there, especially among the redheads who are among us <g>

My hair is one of my two major vanities, and I find no shame in so admitting. However, I am also dependent upon two medications (why is that the word 'drug' is so abhorrent in this society?) that are hard on the hair, both of them can lead to hair loss, dry hair.
Tegretol is really the worst thing I can think of for the hair, short of using Nair instead of shampoo. (Do they still make that stuff?) Apparently Topomax does much the same to the hair. Murphia when she was present on the list told us that we could fight the damage by taking Biotin (2400 mg a day was the suggested dosage)
As I have mentioned, all too frequently for the old-stagers, I am sure, I breed, show and train dogs, a breed with coat and skin problems. Because of these problems, we include biotin and vitamin c in megadoses, along with vitamin E and zinc so the E is metabolized properly, Evening Primrose Oil or Borage Oil, fish oil, CLA, and I am trying to remember the routine... it is natural to do when I am preparing the meals for the dogs, but hard to remember... I hear the murmurs about cognitive problems... no, it is just that I am in the office and the prep area for the dog food is in another part of the house... for that matter as I left the dogs at the training centre rather than fly them back and forth at huge expense in order to complete the training courses I want to finish, I am out of practice... kelp, and a couple of other supplements and vitamins...
It never occurred to me until Murphia mentioned the damage to hair (familiar to Tegretol users) and that Topomax leeches the vitamins from Topomax users, that it might be a healthy thing to use vitamins and supplements myself...
even without Topomax, given the diet of today's society it might be a wise idea... oh vitamin D comes to mind...

but the C, E, zinc and Evening Primrose Oil and the other oil whose name eludes me with the biotin will help with dry hair or hair loss...

and if it works for my hair it will work for anyone... trust me...
there is no hair in the little strainer thing-y in the drain after a shower and shampoo and I am really paranoid about that...
I have very thick hair ... when it was long it took me an hour to dry it using a dryer... if I left it to dry itself it could take as long as six hours; now that it is excessively short it air dries in three hours...
and I do not want it thinning let alone falling out...
as I said, I am extremely vain about my hair and my voice
oh, and I am not really excited about wrinkles either...
Topomax would truly be the wonder drug if it prevented wrinkles...
kat

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS headachequeen

Posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 23:15:33

In reply to Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS dragonfly25, posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 23:00:49

hi kat

i feel like i just read a description of my hair! how weird. i haev really thick, redish hair and it is falling out at a crazy pace. :( i am soo vain about my hair as well. and i have been on all the drugs that cause your hair to fall out. the worst was valproic acid. i took zinc and selenium, but i went off that and stopped teh vitimans and didn't have a problem with my hair for a long time. i used those sudless shampoos which i hated, and i have bottles of vitamins, but i am not good with remembering things (must be the topamax :))
but i hadn't heard about some of the things you listed so i am going to check them out.
but i wasn't clear- did u say your hair stopped falling out? was it from using all that u mentioned or what was your combo?
thx
dragonfly

 

re: the benefits of topamax

Posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

In reply to Re: Topamax for bipolar depression Karen_kay, posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 20:49:39

Hi, I am a researcher and have been researching Topamax for about 7 years. In all clinical tests, topamax was more effective on mania, and not very effective for depression. In many documented tests, topamax actually exacerbated depression. However, topa can have varying effects on different people. If it helps your depression, that is great! But clinically, it has tested to go straight to the manic side of depression. As is zonegran, the new ms out of Japan, and very similar to topa. Hugs. Murph


> Hi Karen_kay!
>
> In re: Topamax
>
> > > > I take it for Bipolar Disorder and it ahs been the only medication that has been able to effectively stabilize my mood.
>
> > > Do you think Topamax would work for bipolar depression? In what ways does it improve your condition?
>
> > I am dx Bipolar I Disorder (which means I have manic episodes as well as depressive) but at the time I started Topamax, I had been having a depressive episode which lasted about 3 years in duration
>
> > From what he tells me, Topamax is better for depressive episodes than manic episodes.
>
> > So, in short, my main problem at the time was Bipolar depression. I wasn't concerned with a manic episode when I began Topamax.
>
>
> Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
>
> Thanks for taking the time to respond. I have been stuck in an unremitting state of severe depression for 25 years. I am only minimally responsive to Lamictal + tricyclic. I'm going to put Topamax on my list of things to try.
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
> - Scott

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by SLS on December 31, 2003, at 7:57:11

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

> Hi, I am a researcher and have been researching Topamax for about 7 years. In all clinical tests, topamax was more effective on mania, and not very effective for depression. In many documented tests, topamax actually exacerbated depression. However, topa can have varying effects on different people. If it helps your depression, that is great! But clinically, it has tested to go straight to the manic side of depression. As is zonegran, the new ms out of Japan, and very similar to topa. Hugs. Murph


Hi Murph.

Thanks for the input.

Have you seen Zonegran be effective for any kind of depression?

Which mood stabilizers do you feel have the best chance of treating bipolar depression?

Thank you.


- Scott

 

Topomax and HAIR LOSS and the dread SELENIUM

Posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 14:53:47

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on December 30, 2003, at 23:15:33


> but i hadn't heard about some of the things you listed so i am going to check them out.
> but i wasn't clear- did u say your hair stopped falling out? was it from using all that u mentioned or what was your combo?
> thx
> dragonfly

AAARRGGGHHHH
Watch the selenium
in fact take it ONLY, I repeat ONLY in miniscule quantities and then ONLY and again I repeat ONLY as directd by a doctor I almost wrote vet...
selenium is one of the trace elements and has such a wild effect...
it can cause sterility if absent in the mix... but it can also cause spontaneous abortion and terrible birth defects if ingested at the wromg time and does nothing for the hair...
it is only effective for the thyroid....
so it is not really linked to a Topomax side effect...
kat

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 15:00:06

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

> Hi, I am a researcher and have been researching Topamax for about 7 years. In all clinical tests, topamax was more effective on mania, and not very effective for depression. In many documented tests, topamax actually exacerbated depression. However, topa can have varying effects on different people. If it helps your depression, that is great! But clinically, it has tested to go straight to the manic side of depression. As is zonegran, the new ms out of Japan, and very similar to topa. Hugs. Murph


MURPH!!! Happy New Year...
and so glad to see a post from you...
now, some information, please...
does this mean that Topomax is going to kill the 'artistic temperament' that is the manic in me????
SOB....
and what is an 'ms"?
and as topomax is really making a difference with these silly and annoying and at times devastating not to mention embarrassing seizures, does this mean that I am going to have to go back on anti-depressants to deal with the depression that, as of today, is officially recognised?
While I do not want to spend the rest of my life with these times of blackness, neither do I want the joys (oh yeah) of zyprexa and its relatives... I know, picky picky...
but there has to be something better...
kat who is never satisfied....

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing

Posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:32:59

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by SLS on December 30, 2003, at 21:45:57

> > Lamictal plus topomax? Whaddaya think? Problem: refractory bipolar depression. And what about the hair loss thing? I missed that somewhere. Is it common to have hair loss with topomax?
>
> Sounds intriguing. How much Lamictal are you taking? I'm in the same boat you are.
>
>
> - Scott

hi Scott,

350 mg Lamictal. Are you taking it? How much? Any sustained positive effects? I did not do well with topomax the first time I tried it, but I wasn't taking Lamcictal then. I'd like to keep my brain able to think, but if the cognitive problems wear off, that would make it less scary.

Emme

 

Zonegran make more depressed?

Posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:40:37

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

Hi. Has anyone tried zonegran and found it worsened their depression? Is there mention in literature of zonegran exacerbating depression? I could swear Zonegran made me more depressed and interfered with sleep to the point of exhaustion in a very short time.

Emme

 

re: the benefits of topamax SLS

Posted by Sooshi on December 31, 2003, at 17:48:16

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by SLS on December 31, 2003, at 7:57:11

Scott-I also take take Topamax for bipolar depression (BPII), and did some research of my own (and with my pdoc)and found out that Topa can actually aggravate depression, so I take an antidepressant with it (Effexor XR), but many take Topa with Lamictal, which has great antidepressant properties. I think it's great that some can get good ms (mood stabilization) on Topa alone (wish it was me!), but most can't. Good luck to you!

 

re: the benefits of topamax Murphia

Posted by Karen_kay on December 31, 2003, at 20:02:22

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax, posted by Murphia on December 31, 2003, at 7:45:37

Hmmmm.. Proof positive my doctor really is a dumb ass. But, I've always had a suspicion anyway. Yeah, Topamax has worked wonderfully for my depression. I saw results almost immedietely. It took some fine tuning to get to the correct dose, but I'm pretty happy with Topamax. My Pdoc wanted to keep me on Abilify for ever because research indicates it also helps control manic episodes. I finally quit taking it on my own and told him several months later. He wasn't too happy, but he can't hold me down and shove pills down my throat. Not that I wouldn't mind him holding me down :)

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS headachequeen

Posted by Karen_kay on December 31, 2003, at 20:09:58

In reply to Topomax is really not such a bad thing HAIR LOSS dragonfly25, posted by headachequeen on December 30, 2003, at 23:00:49

Yeah girl, I hear you about the hair thing. And the wrinkles too. Good grief, I'm only 24 and I'm going grey :( ICK! But, My hair is SO dry from Topamax. But, I buy expensive products and use Paul Mitchell's The Conditioner and that helps. And when I get my hair done, you can get a protein treatment and that helps a lot as well. Also, if you don't blow dry your hair (I know, it sucks!!!!!) it helps to keep it from drying out. And only wash it every other day or every three days. It keeps the natural oils in and keeps it from drying out as well. My problem is that my hair is color treated as well (with a lot of color! Red, with blonde streaks and brown chunks! It's cute :) I say, I'm young, have fun!!) so, that tends to dry it out even more. My hair has always fallen out a bit, but not much more than usual. Thank goodness. I'd stop my medication if I began to lose hair. Well, I guess I'd talk to my Pdoc first. He did say that he could give me meds to counteract that if it happened. Crossing my fingers, Karen

 

Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing Emme

Posted by SLS on January 1, 2004, at 0:07:03

In reply to Re: Topomax is really not such a bad thing, posted by Emme on December 31, 2003, at 17:32:59

> 350 mg Lamictal. Are you taking it? How much?

I am currently taking 200mg. I experience a better antidepressant effect at 300mg, but it wreaks havoc with my memory and cognition at that dosage. By itself, Lamictal does nothing for me. To be of any sustained benefit, I need to take an antidepressant.

> Any sustained positive effects?

I only experience mild relief, but it is better than nothing. At least I can function well enough to take care of the basics.

> I did not do well with topomax the first time I tried it, but I wasn't taking Lamcictal then. I'd like to keep my brain able to think, but if the cognitive problems wear off, that would make it less scary.

Yes. Some of the posts along this thread are encouraging.


- Scott

 

re: the benefits of topamax SLS

Posted by Murphia on January 1, 2004, at 6:12:44

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by SLS on December 31, 2003, at 7:57:11

Hi Scott: Well, sorry to say, the best meds for first defense of bipolar are lithium and depakote. However, trileptal and lamictal are my personal choices to recommend to try first. It all depends on your type of bipolar symptoms, as there are very different manifestations. Some people are more manic, some more depressed, and a lot of people are mixed, which is truly heartbreaking. Mixed, I think, is what a lot of people are, and don't realize it. However, back to your question: zonegran acts just like topamax, goes straight to mania, and not good for depression. If both depression and mania are your issues, topa works well on the mania side, combined with lamictal, which works on the depression (both being mood stabilizers), seem to be very popular, and work very well. As always, your body, your symptoms and working with a good Pdoc, all must be taken into consideration. Hugs. Murph

 

re: the benefits of topamax headachequeen

Posted by Murphia on January 1, 2004, at 6:25:00

In reply to re: the benefits of topamax Murphia, posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 15:00:06

Thanks and Happy New Year to you too! May this be the year that you really start feeling better. An MS is a mood stabilizer. When you say you have depression that is recognized, does that mean your doc is diagnosing this? Or is this just something you know is going on. Yes, topa can make you flat; and many people grieve for the manic euphoria and creativity that they miss when going on an MS. However, it doesn't have to be that way. For all I've studied, it's still a dance of meds. Most people have to go through with the trial and error of med cocktails, until they find the one that best suits them, and allows them to live happy normal lives. It is possible, but it takes work. If we only knew more, we could produce those magic pills that will take care of everything. But we don't. It's a matter of finding the right combination to hit the neurotransmitters at the right time. A delicate dance of meds. I hate it. Everyone I know does. But for many, worth it once they find their combo. Hang in there. It sounds as if you are so actively participating in your health, you are one person I know will get there. Hugs and Good Cheer! Murph

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen

Posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:03:32

In reply to Topomax and HAIR LOSS and the dread SELENIUM, posted by headachequeen on December 31, 2003, at 14:53:47

> selenium is one of the trace elements and has such a wild effect...
> it can cause sterility if absent in the mix... but it can also cause spontaneous abortion and terrible birth defects if ingested at the wromg time and does nothing for the hair...
> it is only effective for the thyroid....
> so it is not really linked to a Topomax side effect...
> kat

hi kat,
thanks for the info. i am sorry if this sounds repetitive but i didn't understand what you meant, i am really hung over. were you saying that it will absorb differently at anytime and if you don't get enough you can become sterile and if you get too much you can cause birth defects? and for the birth defects is this only while pregnant? i am sooo scared, i was taking zinc and selenium for about a year when i was quite young and i am pretty careless about stuff like that. do you think i should worry? thx
dragonfly

 

Re: really worried about past selenium use dragonfly25

Posted by Larry Hoover on January 1, 2004, at 9:56:40

In reply to Re: really worried about past selenium use headachequeen, posted by dragonfly25 on January 1, 2004, at 9:03:32

> > selenium is one of the trace elements and has such a wild effect...
> > it can cause sterility if absent in the mix... but it can also cause spontaneous abortion and terrible birth defects if ingested at the wromg time and does nothing for the hair...
> > it is only effective for the thyroid....
> > so it is not really linked to a Topomax side effect...
> > kat
>
> hi kat,
> thanks for the info. i am sorry if this sounds repetitive but i didn't understand what you meant, i am really hung over. were you saying that it will absorb differently at anytime and if you don't get enough you can become sterile and if you get too much you can cause birth defects? and for the birth defects is this only while pregnant? i am sooo scared, i was taking zinc and selenium for about a year when i was quite young and i am pretty careless about stuff like that. do you think i should worry? thx
> dragonfly
>

I'm sorry if I'm jumping in to other people's conversation, but I'd like to say that selenium is an essential mineral, and toxic effects (called selenosis) generally arise from groundwater with excessive amounts of dissolved selenium salts. The toxic effects are totally reversible on reduction of selenium intake.

In contrast (and because we have an international audience), it should be noted that most of Europe has too little selenium in the soil to meet even the most basic selenium requirement via intake from food and water. Up until the advent of the European Union, imported North American wheat was the primary source of selenium for many Europeans. With internal trade rules now in effect, little NA wheat is imported any more. So, if you're European, I can almost guarantee you are selenium deficient, unless you take a daily supplement.

Mercury exposure irreversible binds selenium. If you've amalgam fillings in your teeth, you're getting daily mercury exposure. If you breathe, or eat food, you're getting daily mercury exposure. If you're stressed or burned out, I can guarantee your selenium stores are depleted, even not taking into account mercury exposure.

Selenium toxicity is thought to occur at chronic intakes of greater than 850 micrograms per day, in the most sensitive individuals (chronic being defined as greater than six months exposure at that level). Many Europeans have intakes around 30 micrograms per day. North Americans tend to be around 80-110 micrograms per day. Subjective mood improvement has been demonstrated on supplementation at 100 mcg per day. I personally believe a daily supplement of 200 mcg per day is prudent.

Selenium is essential for proper thyroid function. It also serves as a primary antioxidant defender in neural tissues. It is the safest way to detoxify chronic low-level mercury exposure.

I have never heard of reproductive issues related to selenium exposure, but I would be most interested in learning about that.

Lar


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