Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 283363

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Re: UK Nardil is also Hansam's (old formulation)

Posted by Dave Hammond on December 15, 2003, at 18:29:11

In reply to UK Nardil is also Hansam's (old formulation), posted by Jonathan on December 15, 2003, at 14:28:51

"but getting it is like getting the Rugby World Cup out of Australia."

Besides the fact that it's not shipped into America, why is is so hard to come by?

 

Old Nardil ..... luther

Posted by maryhelen on December 16, 2003, at 8:23:25

In reply to Re: Nardil from Australia = 1950's version., posted by luther on December 15, 2003, at 12:11:12

Luther:

I have been taking Nardil since November 3rd, unaware of the controversay surrounding it. I now undersand that I am taking the old Nardil. I live in Canada. I have been getting information and help from the members at hhtp://anxietyhelp.org/treatment/medication/nardil.html They have does extensive research into the old and new Nardil and after giving them the information, which is on my bottle, determined that it is the old Nardil.

I hope this is helpful.

maryhelen

 

Pfizer/FDA contact info - NARDIL NOT WORKING!

Posted by strat on January 6, 2004, at 9:25:33

In reply to Old Nardil ..... luther, posted by maryhelen on December 16, 2003, at 8:23:25

Am I ever glad I found you folks. Just went through an horrific anxiety attack in mid-December after 20 days on the new formula. I also don't want to go through the horror of finding a new anti-depressant!!!

As to the actual compression/coating of the 'new' pill - anyone else experience the taste of this 'new' formulation? I usually pop my meds in my mouth in the morning then go off in search of water.

Yecch - this new one dissolves immediately and has a taste I can only describe as 'skunk-like'.

Are there any other boards that folks have found to post on, as well as this one?

I find when upping the dosage I feel more giddy than un-depressed. (upped from 2 to 3-15mg per day).

I've both called Pfizer and contacted the FDA and filled out the FDA's Medwatch form online. Pfizer told me same - that they'd changed the 'inactive ingredients' to prolong shelf-life.

Also, I've read the 'permission granted' on the FDA site - apparently there were no control tests on this 'new' medication - they simply removed the word 'corn starch' from the labeling and added a few blurbs. Seems to me they were somehow misrepresenting the actual changes.

MEDWATCH FORM:

http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/

Here are all the phone numbers I have

PFIZER
1-212-573-2323
1-800-332-1240
PFIZER/PARKE-DAVIS
1-800-223-0432
973-385-2000

I got MORE info from them HERE than at the above phone number:

1-800-438-1985

Hope this helps. PLEASE call these folks and report. I heard from Pfizer that a physician had also called to inquire about a patient that had a similar experience.

 

Re: Pfizer/FDA contact info - NARDIL NOT WORKING!

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 6, 2004, at 12:22:58

In reply to Pfizer/FDA contact info - NARDIL NOT WORKING!, posted by strat on January 6, 2004, at 9:25:33

"Am I ever glad I found you folks. Just went through an horrific anxiety attack in mid-December after 20 days on the new formula. I also don't want to go through the horror of finding a new anti-depressant!!!"

You might not have to. Have you increased your dosage, yet and are you taking anything else in conjunction with the "new" Nardil?

"As to the actual compression/coating of the 'new' pill - anyone else experience the taste of this 'new' formulation? I usually pop my meds in my mouth in the morning then go off in search of water."

I never wait that long. I always have something to drink to down my meds. I take one that would dissolve too quickly, and so I cannot risk it.

"Yecch - this new one dissolves immediately and has a taste I can only describe as 'skunk-like'."

Do not allow it to dissolve in your mouth. This one is no longer coated as I'm certain you've noticed.

"Are there any other boards that folks have found to post on, as well as this one?"

Yes, there's an Anxiety board and a couple of other less helpful ones that I've found.

"I find when upping the dosage I feel more giddy than un-depressed. (upped from 2 to 3-15mg per day)."

You are going to go through some changes here with side-effects that could last as long a 4 months. If this "newer' formulation helps you, then by all means stick with it. Otherwise, well, I suppose you already know what your options are or you soon will.

"I've both called Pfizer and contacted the FDA and filled out the FDA's Medwatch form online. Pfizer told me same - that they'd changed the 'inactive ingredients' to prolong shelf-life."

Okay, the inactive ingredients (expients) actually determine how your body metabolizes this medication. So when they change that, they are changing everything.

"Also, I've read the 'permission granted' on the FDA site - apparently there were no control tests on this 'new' medication - they simply removed the word 'corn starch' from the labeling and added a few blurbs. Seems to me they were somehow misrepresenting the actual changes."

There are six changes in expients between what Pfizer used to make and what it makes today. That's why it's metabolized differently than the "old" Nardil was.

 

strat .........e-mail address for anxiety board

Posted by maryhelen on January 6, 2004, at 20:33:09

In reply to Pfizer/FDA contact info - NARDIL NOT WORKING!, posted by strat on January 6, 2004, at 9:25:33

Hi Strat:

The email address for the anxiety board is in my post. This is an excellent site to go back and follow the discovery (by patients of course, not doctors or pharmacists) of the changes made to Nardil. I don't know if I am coming or going. My pharmacist is going to get the Pfizer rep to come in.

I just started taking the old Nardil on November 3rd

 

Re: strat .........e-mail address for anxiety board

Posted by strat on January 7, 2004, at 6:15:57

In reply to strat .........e-mail address for anxiety board, posted by maryhelen on January 6, 2004, at 20:33:09

Thanks, MaryHelen, for another good idea. I've used the same pharmacist for years; I'll ask him to do same. I found the anxiety board; have already posted there!

Pierre, thanks for the nod of approval! I appreciate having the support here!

Strat

 

Re: COMPAINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by jlbl2l on January 7, 2004, at 16:32:50

In reply to COMPAINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by ace on November 24, 2003, at 18:59:51

Hello, I am new here, and just started Nardil for social phobia a few days ago. Mine is the UK Nardil by Hansam. The ingredients list as :

phenelzine sulphate 15mg BP, inactive : mannitol and sunset yellow FCF.

It is districuted by Link Pharmeceticals Limited. The pills are small and red and do dissolve quite quickly and taste bad. No benefits yet...

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by strat on January 7, 2004, at 16:50:08

In reply to Re: COMPAINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by jlbl2l on January 7, 2004, at 16:32:50

In response to your post, jlbl21, this sounds to me like the 'new' Nardil. Take your time, see how it feels.... some folks who start out on the 'new' one seem to do just fine. It is those of us who took the 'old' one and are now taking the 'new' one that seem to be the ones mainly having difficulties.

Don't be afraid to report any difficulties to the person who prescribed this to you. Naturally, you're probably very concerned... especially since you've just started.

There's also a great board to post on/read on here:
http://www.anxietyhelp.org/treatment/medication/nardil.html

As I mentioned, not all of us are having big struggles.... just keep reading, keep learning, keep talking to your medical professional, and ask questions!

We're with you....

--strat

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by jlbl2l on January 7, 2004, at 17:16:48

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by strat on January 7, 2004, at 16:50:08

thanks! yeah so far few side effects or good ones. i have a medalert id bracelet, diet restrictions list, blood pressure monitor and nifedipine that i was given. im starting at 60/mg a day split between every 6 hours or so. (15mg tablets)

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by gardenergirl on January 7, 2004, at 19:46:25

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by jlbl2l on January 7, 2004, at 17:16:48

FYI, I started on the new Nardil, and I have not had any of the problems those that were on the old did. I guess I'm glad I avoided all that, but I feel for those who are coping with the change.

Good luck to all on Nardil! It takes extra strong coping to deal with the SE's and the diet. I applaud all of us.
g

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by strat on January 7, 2004, at 20:08:48

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by gardenergirl on January 7, 2004, at 19:46:25

jlbl:

Good on you for having the medalert bracelet! I'm forever telling dentists 'NO epinephrine!!!' (they have another novocain that doesn't contain it...)

I'm quite accustomed to the restrictions. However, after a bit, I dropped from 60mg (which was too much for me - plunged me back into a crying state/depression) to 45 mg... then eventually, (for years now) 30 mg. I eat cheese, ham, bacon, coffee (no booze at all, because I choose not to drink) and everything I want. Once you're stabilized and have been taking it for awhile, and are maybe on a lower dosage, you may not have to deal with all the restrictions. (BUT! I'm NOT a professional, and am NOT recommending this.) I just had pizza one day without thinking about it, about a year after I started Nardil, and it was fine.

gardenergirl: I'm doing better on the new stuff, too, although I note edema and sleepiness. I'm glad to hear you're doing okay! Haven't had a panic attack again since the 'transition time' (about 20 days after I started the new version) when I felt like I was actually withdrawing from the old. Sharing this because if it happens to others, I want to offer my reassurance that it will pass. :D

jlbl:

If you're in Canada, or outside the U.S. you may just be lucky enough to be able to continue to take the 'old' version. I've heard others on the board here say that this is predominantly a U.S. problem...

Nice thing about Nardil, for me, when I first started, was that it almost IMMEDIATELY took care of my panic attacks. Like, the first day or two. :D

That's nice.

Warmly, to both of you -
strat

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by shytilwet on January 8, 2004, at 8:25:34

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by strat on January 7, 2004, at 20:08:48

I was told Nardil had been discontinued by the manufacturer, and is no longer available in Australia.
Does anyone know if this is true or how I can find out, please?

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 8, 2004, at 11:06:16

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by shytilwet on January 8, 2004, at 8:25:34

"I was told Nardil had been discontinued by the manufacturer, and is no longer available in Australia. Does anyone know if this is true or how I can find out, please?"

Link Pharmaceuticals sells some form of Nardil in Australia. I believe it's hybrid between the "old" and the "new" forms of Nardil that Pfizer Park Davis makes, but I have not yet been able to establish this with exact specificity, because the indivdual who is trying to find this out for me does not understand how buffering agents work at all. In his world one could put 15 mg of Phenezline Sulfate into water and it would be metabolized the same way as it is taking any in tablet form.

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond

Posted by ace on January 8, 2004, at 19:02:39

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL, posted by Dave Hammond on January 8, 2004, at 11:06:16

, because the indivdual who is trying to find this out for me does not understand how buffering agents work at all. In his world one could put 15 mg of Phenezline Sulfate into water and it would be metabolized the same way as it is taking any in tablet form.

If you are refering to me, Mr, Hammond, I am well aware of how buffering agents work...I have not studied so much pharmacology (at uni, and outside as well) for nothing. The info I was given which I relayed to you, was assured to me by Mr. John Bacon. I begged to differ with Mr. Bacon, but he assured me he was positive of his facts- which were gleaned from psychopharmacologists. To me it sounds implausible, but YOU asked what Mr. Bacon said, not for my opinion.

 

Just Tell Me the Expients, Please? (nm)

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 8, 2004, at 19:54:24

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by ace on January 8, 2004, at 19:02:39

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 8, 2004, at 19:58:40

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by ace on January 8, 2004, at 19:02:39

You know that I am, Ace.

"I am well aware of how buffering agents work"

I once thought you might know what you were talking about, but statements you have made at another board have absolutely convinced me otherwise. If you would like, however, I will drag that post over here so you can re-examine what you said.

"The info I was given which I relayed to you, was assured to me by Mr. John Bacon. I begged to differ with Mr. Bacon,"

Why did you beg to differ if Mr. Bacon was telling you the truth?

"but he assured me he was positive of his facts-
which were gleaned from psychopharmacologists. To me it sounds implausible, but YOU asked what Mr. Bacon said, not for my opinion."

Actually I asked for the name of the expients of Link's Nardil, which you have yet to tell me - not anyone's opinion. I don't care what anyone's opinion is. I want to know the names of the ingredients in Link's Nardil. It's that simple and you either cannot or will not supply them.

Hence, my frustration with you.

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond Dave Hammond

Posted by ace on January 8, 2004, at 23:04:02

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by Dave Hammond on January 8, 2004, at 19:58:40


>
> Hence, my frustration with you.

Sorry about your frustration, but I am a busy boy, Dave. I have tried on the phone for the guy every day to no avail. I have a lot of things going on, and I am making time for this when I don't have to.

Most people are grateful for my help, and I am sure I have helped them. But if you are continually frustrated I think you should maybe ask someone else- and you will then have to wait anyway, just like your having to wait with me.

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 9, 2004, at 0:10:32

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond Dave Hammond, posted by ace on January 8, 2004, at 23:04:02

"Sorry about your frustration, but I am a busy boy, Dave. I have tried on the phone for the guy every day to no avail."

I can see that it has been to no avail, and I'm sorry that is the case.

"I have a lot of things going on, and I am making time for this when I don't have to."

I know you don't have to. However, if Link is just down the street, what prevents you from making that short walk? You did say that you wanted to help. That was no my imagination, I hope.

"Most people are grateful for my help, and I am sure I have helped them. But if you are continually frustrated I think you should maybe ask someone else- and you will then have to wait anyway, just like your having to wait with me."

Believe it or not, I am grateful to you, Ace. What I cannot understand is why you do not yet know the ingredients of the very drug you take -- the drug that is likely keeping you alive. I am running of time, Ace. Is it asking too much for you to list these?

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond Dave Hammond

Posted by ace on January 9, 2004, at 5:36:03

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by Dave Hammond on January 9, 2004, at 0:10:32

Dave, I do know the ingredients of the very drug keeping me alive. Do not come on this website and try and make me look like an uneducated fool please. I love this website and the folk on it. I have spent so much time research Nardil, and I do indeed know its pharmacological properties very well. But I try to explain things real easy, without the big words. Can we leave it at that?

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 9, 2004, at 7:19:52

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond Dave Hammond, posted by ace on January 9, 2004, at 5:36:03

Ace, that's good news indeed. Could you be so kind as to list the inactive ingredients of Link's Nardil then?

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond Dave Hammond

Posted by ace on January 9, 2004, at 16:53:27

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by Dave Hammond on January 9, 2004, at 7:19:52

> Ace, that's good news indeed. Could you be so kind as to list the inactive ingredients of Link's Nardil then?
>

We have a deal. I ring again first thing Monday. Also, I will give a detailed graphic description of the pill again- please ask further qstns about its appearance as there is only so much i can describe...

Ace
Nardil, 105mg
Zyprexa, 2.5mg

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond

Posted by shytilwet on January 10, 2004, at 2:52:15

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond Dave Hammond, posted by ace on January 9, 2004, at 16:53:27

Dave......Thank-you so much. Your post gave me the courage to ask my pharmacist if Link was now making Nardil. He said that Link is a subsiduary of Parke-Davis and is going to make some phone calls for me to see what the situation is.
I feel that Nardil was a medication that kept me alive. What I'm doing now is not living......just existing in a bleak, grey world......

 

Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 10, 2004, at 9:11:51

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by shytilwet on January 10, 2004, at 2:52:15

Now, that is outstanding news to hear, shytwilet.
Link does manufacture Nardil so have no fears. This drug makes all of the difference in my life too. I suspect that is the case for everyone here. When I cannot take Nardil, my life simply is not worth living, and the world is indeed extremely drab and grey appearing. Yes, I agree with you completely; life becomes mere existence without it.

Would you do me one favor please, shy? It's a very hard one to keep, so do not agree to it at all, unless you are willing to follow through upon your promise -- especially when you start feeling better -- something you might not be able to fully appreciate right now.

You see once people start feeling better, they tend to bail right out of here and begin enjoying there lives again, thus leaving the rest of us in the lurch. It's perfectly understandable, but it then does nobody else, besides yourself, any good.

Would you be so kind as to keep me appraised of your situation? I would very much like to know what Link's Nardil is like. Pfizer Parke Davis in America changed their formula for Nardil completely, and I cannot take it anymore, due to an untoward side-effect that I never encountered when I used their older product. You see I need to know if Link's Nardil would be suitable for me to take. However, because Link cannot import their product into America (very probably due to an FDA restriction here), there is no way for me to know what Link's Nardil is like -- something I really need to know. The only person here who has been kind enough to assist me so far is Ace -- who also lives in Australia and takes Link's Nardil.

Therefore, if you could find out what the properties are of Link's Nardil are -- specifically what the inactive ingredients of it are (Link will tell you this or your pharmacist will)--I would quite literally be in your debt forever! You see it is these inactive ingredients that determine precisely how our bodies metabolize this product. I need to know what those ingredients are in Link's product. Would you please help me find this information out?

I do realize it is a great deal to ask of someone who probably does not yet feel very well right now. But would you now help me?

David

PS

If there is anything you do not understand in what I just wrote above, pleased do not hesitate to ask me either here or in an e-mail at the following address: Twinoppose@hotmail.com

 

Re: please be civil Dave Hammond

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 16:55:40

In reply to Re: COMP(L)AINTS REGARDING NEW NARDIL » Dave Hammond, posted by Dave Hammond on January 9, 2004, at 7:19:52

> I once thought you might know what you were talking about, but statements you have made at another board have absolutely convinced me otherwise.

I'm sorry if you're frustrated, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.

> Just Tell Me the Expients, Please?

> I want to know the names of the ingredients in Link's Nardil. It's that simple and you either cannot or will not supply them.

> if Link is just down the street, what prevents you from making that short walk?

> Could you be so kind as to list the inactive ingredients of Link's Nardil then?

Also, please don't pressure others. Thanks,

Bob

PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirect to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.

 

Re: please be civil

Posted by Dave Hammond on January 10, 2004, at 17:10:21

In reply to Re: please be civil Dave Hammond, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 16:55:40

"I'm sorry if you're frustrated, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down."

Certainly, Dr. Bob. I'm sorry I posted this, since it's a carry over from another board and it's not a polite statement.

"Also, please don't pressure others. Thanks,
Bob"

I will endeavor not to do so in the future.

"PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirect to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted."

I'm sorry but I honestly do not understand what you are saying right here:

1. Do you mean that I should re-read the posting policies of your website?

2. Or do you mean I should get in touch with you about this incident?


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