Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 214008

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Re: magnesium, Leeran, Bearded Lady

Posted by JLx on April 7, 2003, at 11:34:33

In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 10:43:17


>Bearded Lady to Leeran: I think you combined and confused a few posts--the one you quoted was from JLx; he's the magnesium man. I just started taking 200 mg. of magnesium citrate after dinner about six days ago.

Actually I am a magnesium WOMAN. :) People on message boards nearly always assume I'm a man for some reason. George Eby is the magnesium man, AFAIC, and Leeran, if you are interested in trying this, I would urge you to read his page and his many links too, to see how much might apply to you.

http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html

> Bearded Lady to Leeran: I know where you're coming from, though. And I hope JLx can answer your questions. His regimen is above somewhere, but it's a lot of stuff for a lot of specific issues.

I don't think I'm particularly knowledgeable, I can only say what I've learned from some reading and what has worked for me.

Leeran, PMS is known to be magnesium deficiency related. Here's an article about that:

http://www.mgwater.com/ww123102.shtml

Someone here recently recommended that Dr. Dean's book, "The Miracle of Magnesium". I haven't read it yet, as it's taking weeks to get it from my library. It must be popular!


 

Re: magnesium, Leeran, Bearded Lady

Posted by baracuda on April 7, 2003, at 12:07:19

In reply to Re: magnesium, Leeran, Bearded Lady, posted by JLx on April 7, 2003, at 11:34:33

im reading your articles/posts here about magnesium - do you think it has any dangerous interactions with taking A/D's?? because im so willing to try just about anything that will help me with my ailments....but im scared of interactions - i had a bad experience a few years back that has left me traumatized - and my next pdoc appt isnt for a nother month yet...

any info from anyone would be appreciated!

 

Maybe it's because you haven't enlarged your... » JLx

Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 12:26:32

In reply to Re: magnesium, Leeran, Bearded Lady, posted by JLx on April 7, 2003, at 11:34:33

breasts yet! (LOL)

Really sorry about the sex mixup. I can usually tell, but you write like a boy. Oh, well. At least you throw like a girl. : )>

I'm all fouled up now. This has just discombobulated me.

beardedlady : )>

 

Re: Maybe it's because you haven't enlarged your... » beardedlady

Posted by JLx on April 7, 2003, at 12:40:07

In reply to Maybe it's because you haven't enlarged your... » JLx, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 12:26:32

LOL! No need to enlarge them, but they could use another form of cosmetic surgery. ;)

How is it I write like a guy? That's been puzzling me for years now. I posted on a CNN board for a long time with many of the same people, completely unaware that most were thinking of me as a man until I said something to indicate otherwise.

I did make a reference to the women's herbal formula I was taking, btw, so you are obviously not reading my posts with due diligence. <g>

 

woman's herbal formula » JLx

Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 13:20:55

In reply to Re: Maybe it's because you haven't enlarged your... » beardedlady, posted by JLx on April 7, 2003, at 12:40:07

You know, I do remember that. But I'll tell you what happened. John posted about weight lifting, and we used to have a JohnX2 here (what happened to that brilliant man?). I crossed your names, and you became John Lx2.

Yes, it's a stretch, but it's absolutely the truth! So I have been reading your posts, but, alas, I'm reading too many posts.

Please let it be an essay test because I cannot explain my way out of objectives.

beardy : )>

 

P.S. » JLx

Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 13:22:42

In reply to Re: Maybe it's because you haven't enlarged your... » beardedlady, posted by JLx on April 7, 2003, at 12:40:07

Yeah, I'd like to have that other surgery, but on one side. I'm a leftist politically, but I lean biologically to the right.

Ah, TMI. Time to go.

beardy : )>

 

Re: P.S./ beardy

Posted by kara lynne on April 7, 2003, at 13:52:58

In reply to P.S. » JLx, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 13:22:42

Hi beardy,
Don't feel too bad, I thought JLx was a guy too (but I really haven't been reading all the posts diligently--my apologies!). I also thought IsoM was a guy for a long time. Maybe it's that scientific minded writing--(unfortunately or unconsciously) we don't expect it to come from women as much...? Well I'll speak for myself--after all, you do have a beard.

 

Re: P.S. » beardedlady

Posted by leeran on April 7, 2003, at 19:14:55

In reply to P.S. » JLx, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 13:22:42

Ahhh, if only magnesium could lift the spirits as well as the bustline . . . what a wonder drug it would be, indeed.

Sorry for the overall confusion with who posted what, when and where. I DO read your posts with interest. Thanks for clarifying the "grief hell" after childbirth. It sounds like an incredibly trying time.


> Yeah, I'd like to have that other surgery, but on one side. I'm a leftist politically, but I lean biologically to the right.
>
> Ah, TMI. Time to go.
>
> beardy : )>

 

Thanks, hon. But I'll be getting blocked soon. (nm) » leeran

Posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 19:34:45

In reply to Re: P.S. » beardedlady, posted by leeran on April 7, 2003, at 19:14:55

 

Re: Thanks, hon. But I'll be getting blocked soon. » beardedlady

Posted by leeran on April 8, 2003, at 0:17:40

In reply to Thanks, hon. But I'll be getting blocked soon. (nm) » leeran, posted by beardedlady on April 7, 2003, at 19:34:45

Oh no! Because of what I said - or said in reply to you??? I hope not! I suppose I will be as well, especially for throwing out my personal antidote (in another thread) for the sexual side effects of SSRI's.

I'm wondering if this board might make me feel a bit too paranoid. The first-born/only child in me is always worried about getting in trouble.

In any case, if magnesium ends up being a salve for paranoia and guilty feelings I'll consider myself saved by this thread - and consider the entire venture/visit a success.

 

Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!

Posted by fuji on April 8, 2003, at 8:09:03

In reply to Miraculous results with magnesium!, posted by JLx on March 29, 2003, at 5:49:41

After reading all the posts on magnesium, I went out and bought some. It's about 7 days so far but I definitely am having sleep problems in that I can't fall asleep and I don't stay asleep 3 out of 7 days for sure. Mind you I never have sleep problems and I can usually sleep anytime any place so I have to attribute this to the mag. Anyone else have this particular side effect?
fuji

 

Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » fuji

Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 8:30:16

In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!, posted by fuji on April 8, 2003, at 8:09:03

I had a great 9 nights and 10 days with Mg. But, I overdid things, physically speaking, and my sleep does not appear to be as sound anymore. I am waking up early now. It really knocked me out the first week or so. I only had one morning when I woke up early and I felt energized as hell the first week. I am sure my problems are not all caused by Mg, as my history is one of having a tough time to fall asleep and early morning awakenings at various times. I am going to alter my time and dose(I have been at 400 and 600 mg). I do like the anti-anxiety feelings it gives me, kind of soothing, but taking it during the day leaves me sort of sleepy. Have you tried changing your dose or dose time? How much have you been taking? Hope it works out well for you. I seem to recall another person or two having their total sleep time shortened, but the quality appeared to increase. That is how I started to feel. How does the sleep quality rate?take care
johnj

 

Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » fuji

Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 8:30:24

In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!, posted by fuji on April 8, 2003, at 8:09:03

How much are you taking, what form of magneisum is it, is there anything else that you take with it, and when are you taking it?

 

Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!

Posted by fuji on April 8, 2003, at 8:43:49

In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » fuji, posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 8:30:24

I had been taking 400mg mag glycinate in the morning with my effexor and prozac. I started to increase to 800mg split am/pm and then 600mg am/pm and I think that is when I started to notice the sleep thing. I tend to have contrary reactions to medications and always have so perhaps I should stay at 400 for a while and see how that goes. By the way, I told my psytrst that I was taking it and he didn't hold much stock in it but didn't have a problem with me taking it as long as I didn't take too much which apparently can be bad.
I would love for this stuff to be the beall and end all of depression!!
fuji

 

Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!

Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 9:54:42

In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!, posted by fuji on April 8, 2003, at 8:43:49

> I would love for this stuff to be the beall and end all of depression!!

I would love to see it work for everyone else as well as it has for me too.

What brand of magnesium glycinate are you taking? I recall George Eby saying that someone wrote him and said "Oh, it didn't work" until he suggested changing the brand. (I wonder if that was KAL brand, as it's fairly easy to find, whereas Carlson's is not.)

I've had contradictory reactions to meds too, but remember magnesium is not a medication. If you started drinking a form of mineral water with magnesium, happened to change your diet to include many more magnesium rich foods, and/or started taking Epsom Salt baths to relax, you'd be getting more magnesium and probably not even think about it. (And that's still an option if you feel the magnesium glycinate is the problem.)

Perhaps the magnesium is changing how your body/brain reacts to your psych meds? I don't understand the chemistry to all this so I can't reason out how it might, but perhaps someone else here can. I quit taking my meds right away, which was easy for me as I always felt terrible while on them anyway.

I was also waking up after an hour or two of sleep the first few days on magnesium, but feeling quite refreshed when I did so. I started taking melatonin and 5-HTP at night and now sleep well through the night.

I'd suggest that you e-mail George Eby. I wrote to him to thank him and received a prompt, courteous reply. I got the impression that he is used to receiving e-mail from people for whom magnesium did NOT help, which is one reason why he includes all of the other advice he does regarding other dietary changes and factors. He might be able to sort out this reaction too.

You've already considered if you're doing anything else different that might be keeping you awake?

If you weren't deficient before, I can see how magnesium supplementation might not help, but it's harder for me to understand why it would contribute to sleep probs.

I suspect that for each of us optimal "brain health" may be a matter of a lot of fine tuning. I'm beginning to feel very lucky that I am having such great success with what I'm doing.


 

Re: magnesium interactions » baracuda

Posted by disney4 on April 8, 2003, at 10:37:30

In reply to Re: magnesium, Leeran, Bearded Lady, posted by baracuda on April 7, 2003, at 12:07:19

I had an interaction between Wellbutrin, Neurontin, and magnesium. It caused me to have terrible akathisia (heart palpitations, extreme anxiety). I had been off the wellbutrin for a day, but it was still in my system. I attribute it to having taken too high of a mag dose. I had taken a 2-84 mg slow release mag tabs 12 hours apart, a multi with 125 mg of mag, and was drinking a lot of mineral water. My take on magnesium is that it is great when taken in moderation with other vitamins. It can help with relaxation and migraines. Just be careful with dosage and any other sources of magnesium intake.

 

Magnesium--What type are most of you taking????

Posted by disney4 on April 8, 2003, at 11:12:37

In reply to Re: magnesium, sleeping » JLx, posted by leeran on April 7, 2003, at 10:30:26

Just wondering which type to get. I have been using the slow form mag-tab sr, but debating a switch to the mag glycinate. Are you finding it sedating for the most part or what? Also does anyone know if it runs the risk of movement dirders over the long haul?

 

Re: Magnesium--What type are most of you taking????

Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 15:15:23

In reply to Magnesium--What type are most of you taking????, posted by disney4 on April 8, 2003, at 11:12:37

I'm taking magnesium glycinate from Carlson's labs, and/or magnesium citrate, NOW brand, anywhere from 600 to 1,000 mg a day. I'm beginning to wonder if it's BECAUSE I quit the psych drugs that I have had such good luck with it. Or because I also followed the other recommendations too. 6 weeks and I still feel great...despite not having a job, being deeply in debt and facing foreclosure on my house! :)

 

Re: Magnesium--What type are most of you taking???? » JLx

Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 17:06:07

In reply to Re: Magnesium--What type are most of you taking????, posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 15:15:23

I have been taking Mg citrate. first 2 days at 200 mg, then 400, then a few days at 600 mg. I took 600 mg and woke up at 5:30 and couldn't get back to sleep, but I have no idea if this is related to the Mg or not. The only way to know is to back off and see what happens.
I have no explanation as to why I would have a great almost 10 days and then hit a rut that has continued almost a week now. Maybe I need less per day? I am not qualified to know if it would have to do with my meds? I don't think it should. Maybe I will try glycinate. take care
johnj

 

To johnj: exercise and sleep

Posted by jflange on April 8, 2003, at 17:41:11

In reply to Re: Magnesium--HELP anyone » Ron Hill, posted by johnj on April 6, 2003, at 19:50:15

Johnj:

I was looking over your posts about your magnesium success and your subsequent problems after exercise with your sleep patterns. I have had similar problems, basically an increase in anxiety for a few days after intense exercise. It drove me nuts because I thought exercise was supposed to be a relaxant and energizer. Anyway, I read later that intense exercise can sometimes cause disturbances in the lactic acid-pyruvic acid ratio. According to an article I read (cannot find it now but I am sure you could find this info online), this chemical process can lead to a decrease in the blood pH level which in turn causes a disturbance in the total calcium and ionized calcium. The brain stem looks upon this as a chemical signal of danger and the fight-or-flight reaction occurs as adrenaline is secreted into the blood stream.

In short, intense exercise made me lose sleep, feel down, but keyed-up and anxious. So now I do yoga, which so far does not have the same negative effects. Maybe try to moderate your exercise regimen, but don't get rid of the magnesium! I could not live without my 400mg/day!!
jflange

 

Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » jflange

Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 18:30:02

In reply to To johnj: exercise and sleep, posted by jflange on April 8, 2003, at 17:41:11

Thank you very much, it is very kind of you to respond. I will look that up or store your email so I can look at it when I get a little better. I have had no energy for the last two days. I am just getting by at work by the skin of my teeth.

I took 600 mg last night and had about 6 hours of sleep and woke up early and couldn't sleep. It feels as if I used all my energy that period when I was feeling well. I am puzzled on whether I should continue with Mg or not. I had a response when I took 200 mg so I will go down to that or lower and see if I can sleep well. I don't want to quit, but it has been a week since I have excercised and things have been up and down with the last few days pretty rough. Acutally, I feel that my energy level is even lower now than before the Mg.

Is there anyway to balance out the pH so the the flight or flight mechanism doesn't start? I did yoga last Wednesday and was ok the next day, but I have a feeling upping my Mg is not a good idea. The odd thing is fish oil initially helped me, but then left my sleep fragmented. I wonder what is going on? I am going to see a doc if things don't get improve for the better, even a little improvement would make me feel better. Tonight will tell. As I will only take 100 or 200 mg. Thank you for your post, I appreciate it very much.
johnj

 

Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep......Larry Hoover

Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 18:33:41

In reply to To johnj: exercise and sleep, posted by jflange on April 8, 2003, at 17:41:11

Hi Larry,

What do you think of the jflanges post? Any input would be appreciated. See below.


<I was looking over your posts about your magnesium success and your subsequent problems after exercise with your sleep patterns. I have had similar problems, basically an increase in anxiety for a few days after intense exercise. It drove me nuts because I thought exercise was supposed to be a relaxant and energizer. Anyway, I read later that intense exercise can sometimes cause disturbances in the lactic acid-pyruvic acid ratio. According to an article I read (cannot find it now but I am sure you could find this info online), this chemical process can lead to a decrease in the blood pH level which in turn causes a disturbance in the total calcium and ionized calcium. The brain stem looks upon this as a chemical signal of danger and the fight-or-flight reaction occurs as adrenaline is secreted into the blood stream.

In short, intense exercise made me lose sleep, feel down, but keyed-up and anxious. So now I do yoga, which so far does not have the same negative effects. Maybe try to moderate your exercise regimen, but don't get rid of the magnesium! I could not live without my 400mg/day!!
jflange>

Also I had one question regarding cortisol. If the adrenals are stressed doesn't it eventually shut off cortisol production? So, high or low could be a problem right? Thank you

johnj



 

Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » johnj

Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 20:00:51

In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » jflange, posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 18:30:02

Hi JohnJ,

Sorry to hear you aren't feeling any better. I looked up the info presented by JFlange and found some interesting stuff.

This may be the article referred to: http://www.cantfly.com/c/information/whitepapers/ One thing recommended by that doctor for anxiety is that people avoid alcohol, caffeine, Nutrasweet, food colorings, MSG (Monosodium Glutamate), and cold medications.

I think I told you that I found I have to be careful about glutamates. I was already avoiding the other things before I realized that I had to watch those too.

This sportsmedicine site

http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/glossaryn-z.html

makes several points relevant to your situation perhaps. One is that he states under "Overtraining" that this can result in insomnia and depression, among other things.

He says that "Pyruvic acid increases in quantity in the blood and tissues in thiamine (vitamin B-1) deficiency."

He also notes that "RDAs are far too low for serious athletes and even for fitness enthusiasts who exercise regularly."

About B vitamins, "When you exercise strenuously, your body quickly burns up its vitamin B supply. A shortage of Bs affects both performance and recovery. High consumption of sugar, caffeine, processed food and alcohol cause depletion."

Under "Vitamin C" he says that it's "depleted rapidly" by exercise and stress among other things, and that it "slows down lactic acid buildup".

Considering that info, could you have not been taking enough extra Vit B and C to counteract the increase in exercise?

On this biology site, http://www.biology.arizona.edu/biochemistry/problem_sets/medph/02t.html I see the explanation:

"Excursions in the acid direction (i.e., below 7.35) are particularly to be feared, given the variations in production of acids such as lactic acid, pyruvic acid, acetic acid, etc., by metabolism. Production of such acids during peak exercise can lower peripheral blood pH to well below 7.0."

The more I do things to alkalize myself, the better I feel physically and also mentally. It seems like I just feel "sharper" somehow.

Here's a list of alkalizing and acidifying foods:

http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html

 

Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep

Posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 20:43:04

In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » johnj, posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 20:00:51

JLx,

Thank you so much for the information and help. I cannot express how much I appreciate it.

I have been taking an extra 1000mg of Vit C and extra B's too. Interesting you mentioned about the apple cider vinegar. I just found out my brother takes some in warm water every morning since his mother-in-law has been doing it. My wife said they do it in Asia to strengthen the blood (pH, I assume).
I have a rare disease called peyronie's(quite embarassing for me to say but what the hell) so I take extra E and alpha lipoic acid. My stomach has been feeling a little overloaded. I do believe I should go down on the Mg and see what happens. I will go with 100 to 200 mg tonight. The last two days have been days with little or no energy just barely getting by.
I will read the articles and will print some out and make a binder with things in so I don't get so confused. Thank you again.
I hope Beardy saw my apology.
Hope things still work for you and keep us posted on what you have done to tweak the process. What amount of Mg are you taking now? Any other supplements together at the same time? Or do you take everything after eating?
take care
johnj

 

Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep » johnj

Posted by JLx on April 8, 2003, at 21:12:32

In reply to Re: To johnj: exercise and sleep, posted by johnj on April 8, 2003, at 20:43:04

> Thank you so much for the information and help. I cannot express how much I appreciate it.

You're welcome. :) I know how hard it is to not feel like doing anything and besides I was interested for myself too. I have the book "Strong Women Stay Young" by Mirian Nelson, have read it and even bought the weights last summer, but have yet to get doing the strength training on a regular basis. I am feeling overwhelmed with the "things to do" in my life right now that were neglected or have been compounded by my poverty due to the years of depression, starting with "find a job", so I am not pressuring myself too much on the weight training issue just yet. But when I do, this info will come in handy!

This morning I took apple cider vinegar mixed with a little lemon juice and a few drops of stevia and it was not only tolerable to drink but I really felt good a short time afterwards. One thing it is supposed to do, besides alkalize the body, is lower the glycemic index effect of food (and hence blood sugar fluctuations) if you take it with or just before a meal.

> Hope things still work for you and keep us posted on what you have done to tweak the process. What amount of Mg are you taking now? Any other supplements together at the same time? Or do you take everything after eating?

I'm still taking 600/800 or 1,000 mg of magnesium each day. I am also following all of the other advice of George Eby's site, the boron, fish oil, no glutamates, etc. I'm not very systematic about my supplements as far as keeping track of exact amounts of what I take each day, but they are pretty much as I told you previously. One new thing is that I ran out of the enzymes I was taking and could feel the difference in how long food seemed to stay in my stomach, so I had to go buy some more of those.

Did you think any more about finding a doc to help you sort these things out? If I didn't already give this site to you, here is one http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/directory/ with both organizations and a page where you can put in your city. There is a clinic in my general area, that I have heard about before for it's natural approach, and I would go there if I had the bucks. It's difficult sorting all this out on one's own.

I hope you have better luck soon.



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