Posted by georgebabble on January 29, 2009, at 23:13:56
In reply to Re: Do not do it!, posted by princenamor on October 11, 2008, at 17:17:44
> I need more information from you Babak to discuss this with my psychiatrist. The problems you describe about how Buprenorphine made you more lethargic; these are the same symptoms that make taking an opiate necessary for me. I have terrible lethargy and concentration problems including self neglect. This has literally been my entire life. Vicodin didnt make these problems go away, but it opened a door of possibilities that I could work around these problems, and it did make many of them better. However, I can not get Vicodin legally, and do not want to put my faith in an insecure black-market. Buprenorphine is not nearly as good as Vicodin, but with some symptom management it has the real possibility to help with my concentration and lethargy problems. Given a choice I would much more prefer to take hydrocodone or another more natural opiate; they are obviously more effective and side effect free, but it has taken me forever just to find a Doctor who will give me Buprenorphine. If I am going to get him to help me get a natural opiate; I need much more information from you than the links you have given provide.
> First, I need a much more detailed description of the symptoms you began to have after 2 years, and the way in which they came about. If you were on Suboxone for depression, how were the symptoms of lethargy you had before you started the drug different from the symptoms you had when the drug began to go bad on you. How did the drug itself feel before it began to go bad for you?
> Second, are there any studies that show how many people taking Suboxone have had it have these negative effects after 2 years, OR are there sites with many people who were on Suboxone (not just one or two) telling their stories of how after 2 years the drug started to have these effects.
> Third, when I try to get psychiatrists to give me opiates to help my depression I use the Harvard Bodkin study of 1995. Are there any studies, or case studies, that use natural opiates like Vicodin? Not for substance abuse, but literally for mental health problems like depression.
> Right now, through legal channels the only way to get an opiate or opioid to help my depression is to get Suboxone, and even that is very hard. Vicodin was so much better for my symptoms than Buprenorphine, but Legally Buprenorphine is all that is available to me. Yes, the drug war Sucks. It sucks not only for me, but for elderly people in chronic pain whos doctors cut them off Vicodin or morphine, because they are scared of addiction, this is the most ridiculous thing I can imagine. In my case, it drives me nuts that drugs that can give you permanent loss of muscle control, and adult diabetes (antipsychotics), or procedures that can give you permanent memory loss or brain damage (ECT) are considered safe while opiates are considered unsafe because of addiction. Especially ridiculous since when treating a chronic problem youd be taking it on a regular basis anyway. However, if I am to convince my now open-minded doctor that Suboxone is dangerous, and that we must switch to a natural opiate; I need more data. Given the choice between Buprenorphine and nothing I have to go with Buprenorphine.
> HELLO. I'M A NEWBIE TO THIS SITE. IVE BEEN READING THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC OF THREADS FOR QUITE A WHILE INFACT BECAME A MEMBER JUST TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS THREAD. HOPING TO LEARN A LITTLE ABOUT SUBOXONE. AND ALSO TO HOPFULLY HELP ALIGN YOUR VIEW OF VICODEN. FROM THE WAY YOU SPEAK OF MEDS SUCH AS VICODEN, I CANT HELP BUT TO ASSUME YOU LIVE IN AN AREA THAT DOESNT PROVIDE THESE TYPE OF MEDS.? SURELY YOU HAVE RESEARCHED THESE MEDS ON THE NET? VICODEN,LORTAB,AND HYDROCODONE ARE LITERALLY ALL THE SAME DRUG! AND THEY ARE NOT NATRUAL NARCOTICS(OPIATES). THEY ARE SYNTHETIC NARCOTICS(OPIOIDS). SO (HYDROCODONE-VICODEN-AKA-LORTAB) (OXYCODONE-PERCOCET) (OXYCONTIN-TIME RELEASED OXYCODONE)(HYDROMORPHONE-DILAUDID) AND (DIACETYLMORPHINE-HEROIN) ARE ALL PARTIAL-SYNTHETIC OPIOIDS. FULL SYNTHETICS ARE MEDS LIKE METHEDONE,FENTENYL,TRAMADOL. MORPHINE,AND CODEINE ARE NATURAL OPIATES ALKALOIDS. NOW OF COURSE THESE SYNTHETICS ARE GONNA MAKE YOU FEEL GREAT, AND RID YOU OF YOUR DEPRESSION. LOL. THEY ARE OF SYNTHETIC DESIGN TO HIT YOUR OPIOID RECEPTERS PERFECTLY, AND HIT EM' HARD! SO YOU FEEL GOOD. TO "ALTER YOUR PERCEPTION TO PAIN" AKA ANALGESIA. NO WAY CAN VICODEN BE USED TO TREAT DEPRESSION! THEY HAVE A VERY SHORT HALFLIFE. THEY TREAT PAIN, BY HITTING THOSE RECEPTORS HARD, WHEN YOU USE THEM FOR A WHILE YOUR BRAIN STOPS PRODUCING ITS OWN "NATRUAL" MORPHINE LIKE HORMONE SO THAT IT DOES NOT PRODUCE EVEN WHAT IT USED TO MAKE BEFORE YOU STARTED TAKING THE PAINMEDS. SO THAT EVERYLITTLE CUT OR BRUISE CAUSES YOUR PAIN TO MORE INTENSE, CAUSE YOUR BRAIN CANT MASK THE PAIN LIKE IT COULD BEFORE, PLUS YOU CRAVE,CRAVE,CRAVE YOUR PAINMEDS SO BAD BECAUSE AGAIN YOUR BRAIN GOT USED TO GETTING SLAMMED WITH ALL THIS STIMULATION OF NARCOTIC, BEING CHEMICALLY ENGINEERED TO BIND SO MUCH MORE ACUTE THAN THAT OF A NATURAL OPIATE OR EVEN YOUR OWN BRAINS MORPHINE-LIKE SUBSTANCE. YOU JUST CANT LIVE WITH OUT IT. PLUS YOU THINK YOUR DEPRESSED NOW, WAIT UNTIL YOU BECOME THIS WAY, AND YOU DONT HAVE YOUR MEDS? WOW!! PEOPLE TAKE 30 TO 40+ VICODEN A DAY. YOU CANT JUST TAKE A FEW VICODEN A DAY FOR DEPRESSION IT WILL SOON FOR A FACT TURN INTO A PROGRESSIVE MAINTANANCE OF YOUR OWN UNKNOWING DOWNWARD SPIRAL OF SEVERE ADDICTION BY TAKING MORE AND MORE AND MORE. YOUR BRAIN WILL PRODUCE LESS AND LESS AND YOUR RECEPTORS MORE AND MORE DAMAGED. YOU WILL SOON FIND YOUR SELF TAKING 10+ AT A TIME JUST TO GET YOURSELF TO FEEL LIKE YOU DID BEFORE YOU STARTED TAKING THEM.TO GET YOUR SELF TO FEEL LIKE WHAT YOU CALL DEPRESSION NOW....... TAKE IT FOR CHRONIC PAIN ONLY IF YOU HAVE TO. NOT FOR DEPRESSION, THOSE WHO TAKE IT TO FEEL BETTER, SUCH AS FOR DEPRESSION. WILL CONTINUE TO TAKE MORE AND MORE TO CATER TO THE NEEDS OF THEIR FEELINGS.