Posted by 64Bowtie on December 10, 2008, at 19:47:31
In reply to Re: Doesn't have to be an alcoholic Xmas, posted by seldomseen on December 6, 2008, at 4:15:31
You shared: >>>I think if it were just that simple, millions of alcoholics would be cured.
I say: <<<In your own words, "layers and layers of complexity" is the answer to why alcoholics always say, "its toooo hard" to find a cure. "There's just toooo many layers". To the excuse maker, this is gospel, this fact. When you get them to dig deeper they admit that that's how they feel. When you catch them in a moment of clarity, they suddenly see that feelings are real but not of the same fabric as logic and fact or gospel. The fact that they had that feeling is real and undisputed. That its substance is logic because they really did feel it is the route of their confusion. Logic and feeling serve parallel purposes to a successful end. For such a success, they must remain separate in function. Mixing them creates distorted and defective results.
>>>I also would disagree that alcoholics have distorted and defective natures.
<<<...distorted and defective TRUE natures, not the natures you see and accept. I am talking about "Image of self" as true nature. Why wouldn't you trust an alcoholic to watch your minor children when you vacation for two weeks in Europe? You've seen their results. You know why. You'd have to spend thousands to get them outta hock after being sold in exchange for "a good time out on the town" they claim they deserved. You say that's not distorted? You say that's not defective?
>>>In fact, the overwhelming majority of addicts have some sort of underlying, undiagnosed mental illness and/or co-morbid abuse history.
<<<Is this in defense of their lack of distorted and defective selves as not being distorted and defective but mentally ill?
>>>In some families, I was shocked to learn, it is more acceptable to drink than to seek mental health care.
<<<My case in point.......
>>>As someone who has worked with addiction in chronic pain situations for years, it is apparent to me that the old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get moving" attitude only goes so far. I'm not denying it works for some, but for so many the situation has layers and layers of complexity.
<<<It is said that it takes an average of five years of dry-clean-sober to actually dry out and get some of that distorted and defective "wireing" hooked up the way it used to be. Even BillW didn't think in the beginning that five years was long enough. I'm not into "Original Sin" theorey, thereby implying I believe in the concept of "cure". AA is almost as unwise as the Salvation Army about this particular issue. AA warns "once alcoholic, alcoholic for life" while the Salvation Army warns "must be abstinent" or return to your sinfull self. It only takes 100 miliseconds for the mind to change permenantly (research published seven years ago). So, some 100 milisecond period after the 5 years dry-clean-sober, we can start with the "pull yourelf up by your own bootstraps" injunctions, and not a milisecond sooner.............
Rod
poster:64Bowtie
thread:866795
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20081126/msgs/867961.html