Posted by Dr. Bob on August 15, 2003, at 22:44:45
In reply to Redirect: medical profession or drug companies, posted by Dr. Bob on August 14, 2003, at 18:29:49
Re: serious exchange desired » jlo820
Posted by Ima on August 15, 2003, at 21:16:10
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030812/msgs/250855.html
> jlo
> You keep questioning the chemical imbalances in people's brains - If you can offer a better theory on which scientists and doctors can treat depression>
IM the one looking for answers.
Im really not trying to put any one down on this site. My questions may be controversial but my intentions are honest.
I know many people who claim to feel a tremendous help from Ads. But I also know people who feel abused by the methods pdocs use and the medicines.(including me)
> Also, let's not kid ourselves, opiates are not a SAFER choice to treat depression that anti-depressant medication.I ve done the research, at least about opiates.Ive talked to a number of doctors and they have all told me I sound fine, even the pdoc I went to. Im not interested in kidding myself, believe me. Less than 1% of people on pain meds (for non malignant chronic pain )end up with abuse problems. A statistic that suprised even me. Hydrocodone and oxycodone are taken by an incredible (frightning) number of people in this contry. Possible only surpassed by the number of people on ADS (thats a quess) :) I know people in far worse pain and on far harsher pain meds than me who have steel rods in their backs. If not for the meds their lives would be unlivable. So I feel as strongly about this subject as you do about ADS.
I have other problems that because of my exposure to pain meds have have come into sharper view. I have lived with depression 30 years. Once I went on the pain meds and then off them for a couple of months I realized I didnt have to (or no longer wanted to) live with the mental pain.Ive sought help but have felt more confused and misquided than anything. The answers I get about meds seem self serving. When I related that the neurontin (I could tolerate for sleep) made me feel like a zombie if I took it during the day the pdoc said that was just my depression. Having lived with it 30 years I know what my depression feels like. When I said that she backed down. But thats the kind of thing that makes me nervous. Any complaining and Im in denial? Any way Im glad you feel safe. Ive been to so many docs. Its hard to keep going.
>
> Your cynicism is bordering on irrationality,One of the good things I heard from one of the psychotherapist Ive been to is that my feelings are very normal considering the tramatic experiences Ive had with docs. That was a relief to hear but it doesnt change that docs are the ones I have to trust about mind altering medication. Thats why Im here. I want to share my concerns with people who've had them. And Ive done alot of reading about different ADS but there is so much hype.
So here I am!
Sorry this post is so long and
Im sorry if Ive put you on the defensive.
peace
Ima--
Re: serious exchange desired
Posted by jlo820 on August 15, 2003, at 21:52:15
In reply to Re: serious exchange desired » jlo820, posted by Ima on August 15, 2003, at 21:16:10
We are just trying to help you understand. Sometimes it seems like you are wearing blinders, and that you are really not interested in what others have to say. It appears that you have already made up your mind and have come here to trash the medicines. If that is not the case, I guess the problem is just how you present your argument.
Now that you have stated that you have been through trauma with Doctors, some of your posts and your thinking makes more sense.
Good luck with your problems.
--
Re: General comments » linkadge
Posted by Ima on August 15, 2003, at 22:11:25
In reply to http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030812/msgs/251053.html
Thank you for your kind respose.
> Actually not sleeping for a week before final exams is not a common/normal responce in universities/college.
Maybe you are right to say it is not normal but it is seems to me not an unusal response to stress. Stress does funny things to people that can be relieved by encouragement, excersize, or funny movies. Shes sorry she went on the ADS was my point. But maybe thats why she and I get along. :)
> If you are findinding that the antidepressant you are taking is making you emotionally numb or insensitive this a *tell-tale* sign that you are on too much. The drugs themselves are strong and often dosed too high. Most people are on them for moderate depression, not severe.
Are you trying to say that perhaps my depression is moderate? And that is why I feel overmedicated?
Or just that over medicating is typical?
The pdoc Im seeing at the moment started me on 300mg of Neurontin to help me sleep (my lack of sleep I think is peri menapausal as much as anything)But the nerontin helps.
After initial 3 day period she wanted me to go to 300 in the morning. I felt horrible, so morose. When I explained that she said that was me. I told her that is not how i feel when Im depressed.
It was kind of distressing to me that she said that. Like i dont know if Im over medicated. Is this normal to have to argue to convince your pdoc?Many people I know, are greatly helped by 5-10 mg of Celexa.
What is Celexa? Is it MOAI or SSRI or something else?
>
> Chemical imballance is not just bunk - this is what bitter/depressed people say as a way to stay and justify their bitter and depressed behavior. If you're looking to be convinced by us you never will. If you're in bad shape you need to ask yourself - do I even *want* to get better?I might be one of those people (bitter and cynical) but I read that info on a science web sight and it was testified to in court during a law suit. They have to qualify their adds by using the words "..MAY be caused by chemical imbalance." Maybe I would be better off if I had never read it but I did. My own theory is that our resposes can create the pathways that cause the imbalance. We can learn new responses... etc ....maybe youve heard all this and probably thought about more than I have, but I have given it some thought. I cant just take someones word. I feel the need to have things explained to me. Doctors arent always happy to do that.
The pdoc Im seeing told me about "racing thoughts" but I have no idea what else she thinks is wrong with me. She gave me Zoloft next and I had a pretty bad reaction because of my pain meds. She new I was taking pain meds,
Honestly It makes me feel like crying to be told Im cynical. It was a major drug interation, with potentially fatal side effects! I looked up the interaction on a drug checker web site. I feel pretty strongly that I need to look out for myself and that sort of confirmed it.
>
> It *is* possible to aproprately dose an AD so that you are not depressed and yet can still feel emotional.I need to hear that.
>
>> But remember what I said about emotional blunting.
>
> >
> Right dose
> (for me 10mg) = I could see what was most
> important. I understood what
> I could do to help and what
> I could not do. This is
> what is 'normal' - the
> understanding of what is
> and what is not useful
> behaviour.
>
>Another statistic I ve read is that 50% of ADS users have serious withdraws when they discontinue. I could feel better about trying different ADS but some of them seem to require a long period of trial and adjustment and trying so many seems frightning.
Did you have to try many or only 2 before you settled on the Celexa?
In my oppinion its really about finding the right dose of the right med. But don't think that all of us here are a bunch of hedonistic self centered drug pushers. I want for you what is best.
>
Thank you
peace
Ima
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poster:Dr. Bob
thread:251221
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20030808/msgs/251221.html