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Re: Desire versus Acceptance » DAisym

Posted by Trotter on November 4, 2008, at 18:26:28

In reply to Re: Desire versus Acceptance » Trotter, posted by DAisym on November 3, 2008, at 22:40:13

> No. Sorry. For me, this state of contentment would give rise to either a worry about what was gonna wreck this ideal scene or it would give space to think about "what is next." I find my joy in doing or writing or creating - not from reflecting or those quiet moments. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate them, I'd feel happy..but they don't just give me that surge of joy. Joy is that feeling that you can, at this moment, do anything and the world is yours to conquer.

I appreciate what you are saying. This has largely been my own experience with joy as well, at least through much of my life.

I think most people have great difficulty in reaching a state of contentment. Simply sitting on the porch etc will not bring contentment by itself. Most people will indeed start worrying about what they should be doing or what is wrong with their lives. That is the nature of the self, to worry about needs not being met, and to plan how to meet them. Just sitting there will gradually increase uncomfortable feelings of lack, associated with some needs not being met. Doing something takes one's mind off these unfilled needs and the feelings of lack diminish.

The usual way to 'feel better' and temporarily banish lack is to desire something and get busy planning to achieve it, or take steps to achieve it, or simply dream about it. This creates energy and positive anticipation, which combine to create a feeling of enthusiasm, which you might also describe as joy (energized positive feeling).

>
> Do you think that the pursuit of one's desire could come from a dominant feeling of purpose - not necessarily lack or need?

A very good question. I have been wrestling with this one for a while. I certainly would like to think that one can have purpose without a feeling of lack (of one's needs), but for me it is still an open question.

I believe purpose must be underpinned by desire, or it won't motivate sufficiently to be useful. In fact from an emotional point of view, for all intents and purposes, I classify purpose AS desire. I'm not talking about a stated purpose written on a piece of paper. I mean when you feel purpose.... when it inspires, energizes and provides meaning, then you are actually experiencing the emotion of desire.

So to me, and this is just my opinion based on my own perspective, your question becomes: "Do you think that the pursuit of one's desire could come from a dominant desire - not necessarily lack or need?" Of course this does not make logical sense, but perhaps the underlying question is "Do you think desire/purpose can exist without lack or need?"

My current thinking is that lack, as in the uncomfortable feeling that a need is not being met, is in fact the trigger for desire. If anything, desire amplifies that feeling of lack. Imagine walking into a cafe and spotting a delicious looking cake. You begin to really, really want it. You may even feel you need it so much it hurts. That is desire and lack feeding off themselves. That's not to say desire makes one feel bad, in fact usually quite the reverse. In a healthy mind the positive feelings associated with desire overpower the negative feeling of lack. One could argue that the best antidote for lack is desire. Similarly the best antidote for someone ruminating on how bad life is to get some purpose. Unfortunately depression stifles desire, which explains why depressed people cannot "pull themselves up by their bootstraps".

I think if one feels minimal lack and strong desire then one can experience joy. If one feels persistent or strong lack, and minimal desire (as in motivating desire, not just wishful thinking) then one experiences suffering. Buddhism argues that you can't have one without the other. If you want the joy from desire you will have to endure the suffering from lack, and the balance won't always be in your favour.

I still think you are underestimating the value of contentment. When one is stuck in the lack/desire endless loop, as most people are, one cannot experience true contentment. Is it possible you don't know what you are missing? They have connected Buddhist monks to brain monitoring machines and found that the regions of the brain associated with pleasure are MUCH more activated than in normal people. To me, this indicates they are experiencing joy. Speaking for myself, I have experienced joy on occasions while looking out over my balcony and connecting with nature. The key is to get the focus off the self.

Sorry for the long post. Obviously this is an issue that excites me (strong desire). :) I also appreciate that these are only my personal views, and in some respects I may be quite wrong. It is a work in progress. I hope I am not coming across as an arrogant know-it-all. I certainly don't feel that way. In fact I feel quite distressed at times by my lack of understanding with regards this subject.

What do you think?

Trotter


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