Posted by KaraS on July 7, 2004, at 22:41:21
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on July 7, 2004, at 10:59:59
> >> Then, and quite dramatically/suddenly, we both found that 10 mg/day was too much (as if the well filled up, and started to overflow). Thereafter, 5 mg/week was sufficient to maintain the effect. We both found that trimethylglycine (TMG) had a synergistic effect, making the NADH stimulation more pleasant.
> >
> > Larry, that's really fascinating to me and very encouraging. I thought that NADH was too expensive to use and that it didn't last long before pooping-out so why bother? (based on ifno I had read from Ray Sahelian, MD.) It really isn't that expensive after you've built up initially. Now I have two more reasons to try it again. Thanks!
>
> Ron and I may be in a special category.....long-term chronic dysfunction. Maybe that's a factor in responsiveness. Our cellular machinery might be breaking down.Unfortunatley, I've had over twenty years of depression so I'm sure I'd qualify for "long-term chronic dysfunction". Maybe it will work for me too then.
>
> > > I personally prefer DLPA over L-PA or tyrosine. I have a similar response, but at higher dose.
> > >
> > So you think that if I were to try 1000-2000 mg. of DLPA that I might get more out of it in terms of motivation, energy, concentration etc. rather than just more jumpy?
>
> I absolutely would not take it all at once, if jumpiness is a result for you. Increasing the total dose would require multiple doses per day, each on an empty stomach.
>
> On an empty stomach, a dose of a pure amino acid enters the blood as a bolus, a term for a sudden concentration increase. That temporarily distorts the proportions of all circulating amino acids, and lets the effect of DLPA dominate. If you increase the size of the bolus (i.e. by taking a single dose of 2,000 mg vs. 500 mg) you increase the magnitude of that concentration distortion. If you instead separate that 2,000 mg into four doses of 500 mg, you get four small concentration peaks, rather than one big (and potentially overwhelming) one.
>I was just a little jittery with 500-750 mg. of DLPA. Adding the chocolate was what really made me shakey and jumpy. Also, I'm hypoglycemic. I usually only eat a lot of sugar in combination with other food so I don't get a sugar rush. I can't remember what else I had that day along with the chocolate though. When I took 500 mg. DLPA I was fine. So maybe if I were to try that for twice a day without chocolate... It's a real nuisance though to wait a couple of hours after a meal to take the supplements, then wait another half hour before you can eat and do that several times a day. You end up with your whole life revolving around your supplements schedule. I couldn't stand that.
>
> > > Interesting. Your DLPA response might be to formation of PEA, then.
> > >
> > Yes, I was hoping for PEA formation when trying the DLPA. I have rejection sensitivity that I've read can be a sign of low PEA. I am a chocoholic also which could be my body craving the PEA. When I took some DLPA and later ate some chocolate, I got quite jumpy and shakey though. I didn't feel more motivated - just somewhat incapacitated.
>
> Chocolate has other stuff in it, other than PEA. Psychoactive alkaloids, for example. And sugar.
>
> You might want to consider that 500 mg DLPA is too high a dose for you (at least initially). If your body is PEA deficient, it may be hypersensitive to manipulations in PEA concentration, via upregulation of PEA receptors.
>
> Over time, that ought to normalize, which might then lead you to increase the DLPA dose. If you can break a cap open, discard a half of it, and see if the 250 mg dose is more comfortable.
>
> > That's interesting about the biopterin. I didn't know exactly what it was but perhaps uptake is a or the problem for me. I don't know the exact mechanism of acetylation but I think that it also makes for better uptake.
>
> I'm perhaps more cynical. It's darned easy to acetylate an amine. Just because e.g. N-acetyl cysteine is a specific enzyme substrate doesn't necessarily mean that N-acetylation is a general enhancer of function. I need to look more closely at the subject. I'm just giving you my gut reaction here.So your gut is telling you that the specialized Norival product is probably not a big improvement over the regular l-tyroise. Maybe not worth a try then.
>
> > Otherwise I'm thinking that I have a problem with one or more of the aforementioned enzymes or with too much MAO.
>
> Well, there are numerous MAO inhibitors that might be tried to test that theory. But that's a whole new experiment.Someday I ought to try an MAOI. I always wake up slow moving, depressed, irritable and my mind is like mush - unable to focus or think clearly. This situation slowly gets better as the day goes on. By the time most people are ready to leave their jobs, I'm just starting to wake up. That makes me think that I have too much MAO which is active when I'm sleeping. (Isn't that when most reuptake occurs?) Or is this just the norm for those of us with atypical type depression?
>
> > >
> > > You really ought to give TMG (trimethylglycine) a try. It has profound effects on my energy level. In fact, I have to be very cautious about dose because it exacerbates my insomnia.
> > >I'll definitely have to five TMG a try. Anything that can help with my energy would be amazing.
> > Wouldn't TMG do the same thing as SAM-e? Since I had no result whatsoever form that, is it still worth trying the TMG also?
>
> Just throwing SAMe into a person is not the same naturally increasing SAMe precursors. Your body has exquisitely refined feedback regulators to control the *localized* availability of reactive molecules. Saturating the body with SAMe is not the same as letting your body create SAMe where it is needed. And I'm not yet considering the fact that too much SAMe is associated with high blood levels of homocysteine. There are other implications to consider.
>
> I think it is no coincidence that the human genome carries within it all the instructions for the induction of the formation of an enzyme which processes TMG. In other words, if the diet begins to supply TMG, the liver DNA activates the production of an enzyme with one known function, the methylation of homocysteine to methionine. Betaine (beet amine, as TMG is found in sugar beets) is another name for TMG, and that enzyme is called betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase.
>
> Maybe TMG has other functions (I know of a couple), which we don't fully understand. The thing is, taking TMG doesn't distort your natural biochemistry. In fact, your body is actually primed with a latent capacity to use TMG if it makes its way into the diet. However it is that your body actually works, I am confident it "knows" what to do with TMG.
>
(Assuming you're not short on that enzyme) (betaine-homocysteine methyltransferase)Also, what about taking l-methionine directly? I actually have some of that here.
> Just for the record, on recent days (two instances) when I have used NADH and TMG, I am substantially enhanced in functioning the *next* day, and on subsequent days, rather than on the day I dosed.
>
> I am using single 750 mg tablets of TMG, Source Naturals brand. The first dose of Enada NADH was 10 mg, the second was five.BTW, Is Source Naturals DLPA any good?
>
> > > > Sorry to to be so long-winded here but I'm determined to figure out why I'm so lethargic, depressed and unfocused. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Glad to help with the advice part, but it all comes down to how well you do the experiment, and some luck in finding the right experiment to try.
> > >
> >
> > > Lar
> >
> > With your expert help, I'm sure I can find the right experiment(s)!
>
> Let us hope.
>
> > By the way, have you ever tried Rhodiola Rosea? (I don't think I've asked you that yet but please forgive me if I have.)
>
> Actually, about three years ago, I was fervent proponent of Rhodiola. I had actually considered going into the business of preparing Rhodiola for sale, and marketing my own brand. I knew people whose lives had been miraculously transformed by it. My own reaction was adverse, however. I had a paradoxical reaction to it (the opposite of what is expected). I have paradoxical reactions to pharmaceutical drugs, too, some of the time. Anyway, it messed me up, and I lost my ambition to market Rhodiola.Now that I read about your paradoxical reaction to the Rhodiola, I do recall your mentioning that before. It's encouraging that many people have had such huge success but unfortunate that you weren't one of them. Are you more inclined to be anxious or are you more in need of energy and motivation?
>
> > I just bought some of that and am really looking forward to trying it. I just have to decide if I want to take it with the small amount of Effexor instead of the SJW while I withdraw ... Decisions, decisions....
> >
I have taken two pills of the Arctic brand so far. One each on two different days. This only equals 180 mg. So far so good. Today I definitely felt more able to concentrate after taking it. I am no longer worried about tolerating it. I am more worried that it won't do much and will be another dead end. Short half life though? That means withdrawal, doesn't it?
> > Kara
>
> It has a short half-life. A single day substituting Rhodiola for the SJW should give you an idea of the effect.
>
> LarThanks again. Be well,
KaraS
poster:KaraS
thread:359642
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040613/msgs/363881.html