Posted by linkadge on April 20, 2011, at 17:43:08
In reply to Re: the only way out, posted by poser938 on April 19, 2011, at 8:10:08
>that it stimulated my receptors to where they're >not tolerant of dopamine anymore. i know they're >not because i tried ritalin and tianeptine in >the past hoping they would help, they only made >me worse.. ritalin made me worse after just one >dose.
Is this before or after the mirapex? Also your investigation is by far not diagnostic of anything. Ritalin has effects on norepinephrine too. Depression can depleat norepinephrine and dopamine rendering it less sensitive to monoamine reuptake. Ever consider that your catecholamine levels are just low (due to depression)?
Also, the sensitivity towards ritalin euphoria is not universal. People with ADHD oftentimes notice the side effect of *depression* from stimulants, yet they still work for ADHD. In mice, the sentivity to stimulants is dramatically influenced by levels of p11 (which is decreased in animal models of depression). When people are depressed, they get less reward from most things, including food, drugs, sex, whatever. Its also got to do with dynorphin and prodynorphin which are natural kappa agonists which are increased in animal models of depression.
When you take a stimulant, it increases the levels of dynorphin to try and reduce the dopamine's pleasurable effect. Interestingly, even though dynorphin has prodysphoric effects, it has potent anti-ADHD effects. Some theorize that its actually the natural dynorphin response that produces the antihyperkinetic effect of ritalin.
Dynorphin doesn't decrease dopamine responsivity it just decreases dopamine release. Dynorphin levels are increased in depression and also dramatically influence the behavioral responses to stimualants.
Also prolonged exposure to dopamine can actually produce depression. Read the following article. Dopamine is *not* the magic pleasure chemical. When mice are exposed to too much mesolimbic dopamine they get depressed! (And this is not due to a simple loss of dopamine responsiveness). The brain is wired to produce a depressive response to too much pleasure! Yes, this is because too much activation of mesolimbic dopamine actually turns on CREB and BDNF in these regions which produce behavioral depression! This is why dopamine blocking (or serotonin raising antidepressants, are generally effective), because, by boosting serotonin, they lower dopamine and hence CREB in this region, and reballance serotonin / dopamine (or so the theory goes).Stress can also increase dopamine release, and increase risk of psychosis and/or depression in susceptable individuals.
People here don't seem to get that! They just read some stupic oversimiplistic websites that say dopamine makes you feel good.
http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20050728/dopamine-may-play-new-role-in-depression
In certain instances, dopamine mediates feelings of pleasure, but its not a simple dopamine = pleasure effect. Dopamine works in conjunction with many many other brain chemicals to mediate feelings of well being and reward.
For instance, SLS has noted that ritalin often makes his depression worse. Is this because his dopamine receptors are not sensitive??? Of course not necssarily, its because his particular biochemical problem is probably different.
Also, what one drug does one day, does not predict what it will do the next.
>i've been trying DXM (dextromethorphan) at 60mgs >a day lately to see if it would help, but hasnt >at all so far. its been a week since i started.Get your mind off this stupid oversimplistic dopaminergic theory.
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:983009
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110418/msgs/983360.html