Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 26, 2009, at 20:42:08
In reply to Re: I don't want to go back on antidepressants, posted by bleauberry on June 26, 2009, at 18:52:20
What is it about SNRIs that lead me to have such reactions if they do nothing for norepinephrine? There's something, but what? Because the reactions I have on those is so much different than the reactions I've had to SSRIs (even though neither SNRIs or SSRIs have been tolerable).
I agree that pdocs have started me on way, way too high of doses. And have overemphasized serotonin. I was, however, on small doses of fluoxetine for a few months (5 mg) and felt no relief. Do you think I wasn't on it for long enough?
Maybe you are right about Zoloft. But then again, I tried it and was taken off b/c of chest pains (4 days). I was not on a high dose, at all. Something really small, for Zoloft, but I can't remember what.
Is LLMD "lovably languid medical doctor"? Or "lama loving medical doctor"? I'm confused.
I have read your references to psychotropical.com. It would be nice to be able to consult with him. I believe I may have been suffering from low-level serotonin syndrome for many years.
I do pubmed searches a lot. That's how I know that the pdocs I've seen in the last 2 years are $hite. This recent idiot wants me to try Abilify ALONE for mmd. My genetics report shows polymorphisms that are, and this is a quote, likely to cause "significant weight gain." Sure, what I need for my self-esteem that is already in the toilet, not to mention my history of anorexia, is to be put on something that causes massive weight gain. Bravo, pdoc.
And do you want to know something really weird? This only started happening in the last two years, but every time *every time* I am taken off of Prozac, after 10-21 days, I start getting hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations. This only happens when I go off the Prozac. It shouldn't happen, but maybe if my body is not breaking down the Prozac, and it is building up in my system--? It's possible.
> I have learned a great deal from these sources:
>
> 1. Observing pbabble patients for many years.
> 2. The writings of Dr gillman at psychotropical.com.
> 3. My personal med journeys.
> 4. My LLMD.
> 5. The mistakes of my psychiatrists.
> 6. Case studies on pubmed.
>
> Putting all that together, I can see two strategies that could be rewarding to you.
>
> The first is a norepinephrine serotonin combination. That does not mean a SNRI. Their action on NE is so insignificant it seems ingenuis to call them SNRIs. What I mean is, something like Zoloft and Nortriptyline (or Desipramine). Or Amitriptyline. Zoloft could actually claim to be a Serotonin Dopamine reuptake inhibitor more than Effexor can claim to be a Serotonin Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
> The effect you are talking about is not uncommon with strategies that are prominentaly strong on serotonin. There needs to be balance with norepinephrine. And it needs to come from two different molecules, not one. That is so the balance can be manipulated. Two different molecules work in different ways than a single molecule. The onset of efficacy is faster as well.
>
> The second thing is, dose. My LLMD has taught me that the usual doses of meds are very often extremely too much. He starts patients on, for example, 2mg Lexapro. Some of them end up there as the final remission dose. One patient is healed at 1mg. Another at 3mg. Zoloft 5mg. Nortriptyline 20mg + Zoloft 12.5mg combination. Stuff like that. The drawback is that these supposedly subtherapeutic doses take longer to work, unless it is the serotonin-norepinephrine combination, in which rapid results can be expected.
>
> The effects of how you felt on antidepressants are the results of two things:
> 1. Too much emphasis on serotonin.
> 2. Too high of a dose.
>
> My two cents.
>
> All that said, I do not believe any manipulation of the brain will bring us back to where we were pre-illness. We can end up somewhere feeling completely better, in remission, but it is never exactly the same as where we came from. It can be very close, but little things will be different. Everything is in constant motion evolving, so there is no way to ever go back and recapture what was. We can however reach a non-apathetic, motivated, happy, interested, caring, remission, by exploring serotonin-norepinephrine combinations and using lower than common doses.
poster:Amelia_in_StPaul
thread:902496
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090620/msgs/903370.html