Psycho-Babble Medication | about biological treatments | Framed
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Re: Clozapine not working now what????? bleauberry

Posted by yxibow on July 8, 2008, at 0:15:08

In reply to Re: Clozapine not working now what????? Jeroen, posted by bleauberry on July 7, 2008, at 19:48:57

> Of the two options you mentioned, definitely amisulpride, then sulpiride.
> But, I wouldn't be honest if I didn't say I think your options are a lot greater than antipsychotics. I don't know why you are being stuck in such a limited arena. If excess dopamine activity was involved in your symptoms, the APs up to this point would have done a lot more than they did. It aint dopamine man, and that's just my humble unscientific opinion, not knowing you or your doctors or anything. All I know is pure logic...when a bunch of antipsychotics don't do the job, then it is something else that is wrong. Profound resistant symptoms can be caused by such silly things as a faulty magnesium circuitry, requiring healthy doses of magnesium glycinate; or an excess accumulation of copper (talk about psychosis) requiring high doses of zinc+B6 to clear it out.
> Sorry, don't mean to sound any particular way, it's just very frustrating to see someone stuck in such a small confined area of treatment when there are OTHER causes of your symptoms. If someonoe thinks antipsychotics are the only things that can treat psychosis or schizo-like symptoms, they are dead wrong.

They aren't the only thing that can treat psychosis. Before we had chlorpromazine (Largactil) people either were locked up with insulin injections or if there was humane treatment there were discussion groups in hospitals that managed to get some higher functioning people with schizophreniform disorders to function better.

I know you believe a lot in alternative therapy, and that's fine -- but vitamins are not going to stop schizophrenia, a disorder that has befounded medicine for more than 50 years, and neither copper nor aluminum nor magnesium are exactly heavy metals. They are ubiquitous on our planet, especially aluminum, a part of clay (kaolin) and soil. Copper is somewhat less ubiquitous than aluminum and in fact we are stripping the planet of it, but thats neither here nor there.

Yes, I have heard of the reference to copper in the brains of people with schizophrenia, but at this point that is the same cause and effect argument as aluminum and Alzheimers. You can't escape aluminum on this planet as it is one of the most present elements.

Lead is allowed up to 7% in brass faucets in the US for water systems, an alloy of copper and zinc and has been for many years. I don't think anyone has dropped dead of water faucets.

It is some of the compounds of copper that are toxic, such as copper sulfate, a heavily used industrial compound. Not the metal itself. So don't cook in green rusted copper pots and don't put Miracle Gro in your koi ponds.

It is clear that dopamine has some function in it -- there are many other areas unexplored, sigma receptors, other serotonin receptors, etc.

If after exhaustive searches for a diagnosis for some years, I mean, Jeroen is free willed to do what he wants unless there really is a "psychotic episode" (which really can sound pejorative and not exactly a diagnostic name) and find other doctors for other therapy.

I feel for you, Jeroen -- but as I have said, I don't think doses are high enough to make enough of a difference so that you can appreciate it. And again, I will say mea culpa if your doctors have done this already.

I'm not for shoving APs down anybody but if there is an evidence based psychiatric diagnosis, then some use of it (MED) should make some difference. In the end, as all things, medication isn't everything. There is restructuring and reintegrating into the community and therapy which I hope is part of your plan from your doctors.

-- best wishes





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