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Re: This CAN NOT be possible!

Posted by undopaminergic on May 25, 2008, at 17:20:32

In reply to Re: This CAN NOT be possible!, posted by mari stella on May 24, 2008, at 19:12:51

> So just because this is happening with adderall does NOT mean it will happen with ritalin type stims?

Yes, or at least, it's my general impression from what I've read as well as from personal experience that tolerance to methylphenidate is much milder and faster to reverse.

> Thats good news...I was prescibed focalin though and I never really noticed anything at all when I took it.

That suggests that "Ritalin-type" stimulants may not be powerful enough for you. Possibly, the use of this type of stimulant in combination with low doses of sulpiride or amisulpride might be a solution. Sulpiride and amisulpride enhance the release of dopamine by blocking D2 autoreceptors.

Ritalin, Focalin, and cocaine inhibit the reuptake of dopamine (and noradrenaline); they prolong the action of naturally released neurotransmitters. Amphetamines, on the other hand, reverse the direction of the dopamine transporter and so effect the release of large quantities of neurotransmitters that would not have been releaesed naturally. (Interestingly, by blocking the dopamine transporter, cocaine or methylphenidate can block the action of amphetamines.)

One problem with amphetamines is that they have a tendency to produce changes that can take a long time to reverse. For example, in brain scans mapping the binding of radiotracers to the dopamine transporter protein, binding is significantly reduced in chronic amphetamine users (or abusers), and this change isn't found after long-term cocaine abuse.

> I wish there was more data, I also wished I could find more personal accounts. I have read where some people used dxm and it "worked" but these were people who did not have tolerance issues like mine. They just wanted to protect themselves. IF their tolerance wasnt going up anyway than who can say if it "worked"?

Quite so, but there have been a few reports from people having tolerance problems with amphetamines suggesting that it does work. On the other hand, I don't think it would work for everyone.

Personally, I've found that memantine has some stimulant-like effects of its own, and therefore it's somewhat difficult to say how much of its effects are a result of its reduction of tolerance to stimulants, as opposed to stimulant effects of its own. It's my impression, however, that it does enhance the effects of methylphenidate to some extent, although it's not really sufficient for my purposes. I think the combination with amphetamines may be more successful than with methylphenidate.

> Right now, I am wondering if anyone has hard facts regarding time and tolerance lowering. I think I read an abstract at pubmed that said d2 downregulation still shown at 3 days but not after 14. But Im a dunce and those abstracts are above me.

I've recently discovered that the downregulation of D2-receptors may be a result of stimulation of kappa-opioid receptors by dynorphin - an endogenous opioid neurotransmitter. Therefore, the use of kappa-opioid antagonists like buprenorphine in combination with stimulants is a promising approach to solving the problem of tolerance. I don't know of anyone who has tested this.




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