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Re: Anti-psychiatry theory of iatrogenesis » clint878

Posted by Squiggles on October 28, 2006, at 11:25:46

In reply to Re: Anti-psychiatry theory of iatrogenesis, posted by clint878 on October 28, 2006, at 11:03:36

> >Take a functioning bipolar II, give them a few rounds of antidepressants and the illness takes off like wildfire.

I have read that antidepressants can
make a bipolar brain worse. I can't recall
if this means before the onset of bipolar
manifestations or after, but certainly they
must mean after or while you are on an anti-bipolar drug. So the questions would
be:

- is it interaction
- is it a trigger
- is it a cause?

That's how it was with me anyhow. I really cannot believe that the course of my illness would have been this devastating if I hadn't had those treatments.

Do you mean that the treatments made your
bipolar state worse?
>
> After doing some more research, I'm not sure this view is proven either. I don't know what to believe. For example, recent journal articles suggest that the so-called "kindling theory" is not sufficient to explain the course of bipolar disorder.

"kindling theory" ah yes -- a very poetic term
(and taken from the firestorm model- btw, i am very sorry to hear of the firemen who died at the California fires).

Yes, it is the theory that bipolar episodes
get worse with time, if not treated. It is
based on the analogy to epileptic fits which
get worse if not treated. I don't know if it's true. Certainly, Kraepelin did not think so. He observed the life course of manic-depressives over as long as 40 years, and found that there was great variability in frequency and and severity of mania and depression.


>
> And even if it were, then it could have been drinking caffeine or dealing with too much stress that would have caused the episodes instead of the antidepressants.

It's a mystery i think -- it seems genetically based and the fact that the cycles are erratic rules out things like coffee, and diet, and even stress-- though of course stress is the last thing anybody needs who is mentally ill.


>
> There's a problem when we talk about "harm" being done. Depression, untreated, causes harm to the brain and the heart, and other parts of the body. It's shown that there are fewer neurons in the brains of people who have been chronically depressed.

That may be because of the stress that these experiences bring on-- it's like being an explorer and going taking an Antarctic exploration.


>
> So would the damage caused by the untreated depression be better than the damage caused by the antidepressants, which eventually led to finding the correct treatment?

Yes, i would say. Because it is very difficult to live with depression. Not only is the depression stressful, but the attempt to live a "normal" life-- that is a great challenge.

Squiggles


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poster:Squiggles thread:698173
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061028/msgs/698435.html