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Re: Biopsychosocial vs Biological Reductionism yxibow

Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 23:50:25

In reply to Re: Biopsychosocial vs Biological Reductionism Estella, posted by yxibow on September 2, 2006, at 13:54:27

> Well we have fairly good models of OCD

I guess 'fairly good' is relative. The models we have now are better than the models we used to have, that is true.

> but its not clear to me that you may have not read any of the references pointed out.

I'm afraid I haven't had time to get to them yet. I will at some point. I've been reading about modelling in psychiatry more generally. People talk about schizophrenia and autism and depression and anxiety and alzheimers etc a lot. I've read a tiny bit about OCD but that is probably the disorder I'm least familiar with. I look forward to getting to it at some point :-)

> Schizophrenia is one of the few neurochemical disorders that can theoretically to the best of my knowledge be seen on MRIs simply because some forms are neurodegenerative. But they can certainly be seen on SPECT/PET.

Christopher Frith has done a lot of work on that "The Cognitive Neuro-Psychology of Schizophrenia". That is where I found out about their not being markers within individuals (you can't dx schizophrenia on the basis of fMRI) but there are differences when you look at averages across the population. He said that the neural differences tended to be correlated with the most severe cases. He also considered the possibility that schizophrenia isn't a natural kind, rather there are different kinds of disorders that have been thrown together.

> Its possible, but I do believe we will find, and already are starting to find genetic reasons for autism.

Trying... Not doing so well. Not doing so well with the genetic markers for schizophrenia either. Several different genes seem to be implicated but whether they are expressed or not depends on certain other genes. Also social influences. Perhaps whether the mother had an infection / virus in the third (?) Trimester. But none of those are sufficient and I don't know that any of those are necessary too. So the model is fairly vague indeed...

> > Lets say the following are causal factors for anxiety (in the sense of being sufficient but not necessary)

> > - endocrine system
> > - crappy environment

> > are there two kinds of anxiety (the first kind and the second kind) or is anxiety multiply realised? don't know... but taxonomy might change...

> ALL anxiety whether introduced environmentally ("crappy environment" -- please dont assume what peoples environment are like or how they assimilate their surroundings or life upbringings, that is insulting)

I wasn't assuming anything. The 'Lets say that' should have clued you in to the fact that I was speaking hypothetically. I replace what I said above with the following:

Lets say the following are causal factors for anxiety (in the sense of being sufficient but not necessary)


are there 5 kinds of anxiety (one for each aetiological factor) or is anxiety multiply realised? don't know... but taxonomy might change...

> > But it is funny that most people get to be NOS.

> Do please refrain from continuing to use the word funny in your hypothesis, its not amusing to those who are on here and are diagnosed with a disorder yet to be determined.

I meant funny as in strange, not funny as in ha ha. I know it isn't ha ha funny.

> There are various DSM-IV and DSM-V disorders that are indeed NOS. They don't fit into a regular category of a DSM diagnosis...

Yep. So more people with mental illness don't fit into a regular category than people who do fit into a regular category (or 5). I guess that I think that that shows us that the regular categories are inadequate.




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