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Re: which of the TCA's are genotoxic ? » FredPotter

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 29, 2006, at 18:49:10

In reply to Re: which of the TCA's are genotoxic ?, posted by FredPotter on May 29, 2006, at 15:34:05

> Larry you mentioned broccoli. I've been thinking about fresh green leafy veggies. Why would they be good for us? I thought many plants evolved spines and poison on and in their leaves and stems which helped to prevent them being eaten. Many leaves are poisonous. However giving us cancer some years down the track would be of no benefit to the plant. But most plants don't "want" their leaves to be eaten.

Before I get down to this question, I'd like to first say that any ruminations on the subject are in the realm of rationalizations. To think plants have intention, or to ponder plants being good for us or not, is all self-serving thinking. Self-satisfying. Some things just are. Meaning is not an inherent trait one can simply observe or describe.

To consider broccoli, and its peers, is an excellent choice. Broccoli and brussels sprouts and cabbage and kale and kohlrabi and cauliflower and "broco-flower" are all one species, Brassica olaracea. It also includes some members of the chinese cabbages, depending on the particular botanist describing the group. The rutabaga is a cross with mustard.

None of them, save the mustards, and maybe the kale, are ever found in nature, growing wild. They are cultivars, selections made by people. One group of people selected for the winter storage leaves of the biennial flowering forms(cabbage or brussels sprouts), whereas another group selected for annual flowers (broccoli and cauliflower). Yet another selection went to stem characteristics (kohlrabi). The wild plant is not the same as the cultivated one. And flavour goes along with noxious elements, in that mild flavour is generally an indication of safety with respect to consumption. It is the bitter elements in broccoli sprouts (the freshly sprouted seed is very high in what happen to be potential carcinogens) that confer the risk. Yet, in moderation, they seem to be powerfully good for you. Dose must be an important variable.

The progenator plant for what we call corn in North America, or maize elsewhere, is no longer seen in the wild. We have evidence of the lineage for corn (from archeological work), but there is no wild plant that seems to be the source for the corn genetic material. Wild corn is gone. Wild potatoes are very different from your McDonald's potatoes. And so on.....

The distinction between culinary herbs and medicinal herbs is arbitrary. I prefer the simplest explanation; culinary herbs are those medicinal herbs that taste good. The rest, we call medicine. E.g. rosemary oil contains one of the most potent antioxidants known from nature. I just like the taste, in stuffings and with roast meat and potatoes. I don't think the Greeks were thinking longevity when they selected rosemary from the wild. But, people who use it are healthier than those who don't.

There is so much variety in the plant world, that we have not even sampled all of that diversity. Who knows how many St. John's worts (treatment for depression) and Madagascar periwinkles (leukemia treatment) have been ploughed down or buried by mankind's rapacious behaviour. And yet, we depend on less than 0.01% of all the plant world's species diversity for virtually all of our food. I think it is just seven plants that supply 90% of all of mankind's food energy (including indirect energy via meat or eggs or dairy).

No, what we have done is we have become highly selective. Bitterness is a pretty good indication of alkaloids, for example. Bitter food, we spit it out. And we have our liver, and our portal circulation, to act as customs and immigration for anything that gets past the mouth, or the acid of the stomach. We co-evolved with our food sources. We'd not be here without them. And we seem to be pretty good at making sure we plant some more of those species that feed us. We seem to be pretty good at selecting characteristics of those plants, to provide us with food that even Mother Nature never contemplated, on her own.

> However nuts and fruits "want" to be eaten. That's why they taste good and are good for us (they want to keep being eaten - for seed dispersal in a pile of dung preferably).

There are far more fruits and nuts that we don't eat, than ones we do. Again, we are very selective. I suspect that different animal species also have some divergent ideas on what tastes good. Each species has its own niche, its own environmental variables. Except man. We escaped our niche on the savannahs of Africa.

> So while the advice on fruit is sound I doubt the advice on leafy veg. Is there any truth in what I'm saying? Anyway I find them pretty tasteless
> Fred

If you do not have strong smell or taste, you may have a metabolic need for zinc. Quite apart from that, though, I don't agree with your generalization. It seems like it's imposed, in my view. Not everybody likes garlic, for example, and its pungency deters most pests. I do not recall ever seeing a single insect mark on my garlic plants. Yet, when roasted, that pungency is completely absent. Insects never discovered fire, or maybe garlic would be on their menu, too.

Good thoughts, Fred. There is no right answer. There are only self-serving answers. In any case, the more natural a food is, the more I tend to trust it as a food source. The more processed it is, the less nutritious it tends to be. Bleached white flour or sugar crystals are not natural. Not the way I think natural, anyway. The best part was discarded, IMHO.

If you're looking for a rationale to avoid veggies, fine. I think you might simply not have met a good enough cook, though.

Lar

 

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poster:Larry Hoover thread:647031
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