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Re: My Testostorone and some questions

Posted by john Henry on July 30, 2003, at 6:05:24

In reply to Re: My Testostorone and some questions, posted by don_bristol on July 29, 2003, at 9:39:04

>

>>>>I would like to state I am no doctor and any advice I give should be taken as such.I do thing off the book and I am sort of a militant.

John Henry, I am very interested in what you write. I am 47, live in the UK and I am not a body builder. In fact I am pleased enough with my musculature and do only light exercise. My sex drive is "middling" to low.

I have low normal testosterone and my mood is generally low (dysthymic). I started on testosterone specifically for MOOD. Not for muscles. Not for sex.

>>>>I started on Testosterone not for muscle building effects either but on research to get libido back from SSRI and it's mood enhancing abilities.I discovered at the same time it cured my anxiety/panic attacks.


I saw an endocrinologist to try and get me sorted out. All the testosterone he has given me has been official. Testosterone definitely helped my mood. Only testosterone and an MAOI, Moclobemide, will help me out of my low mood and apathy. But I have a problem to keep taking testosterone.

>>>>I am using Ritalin now to treat SSRI apathy and low mood.I'm giving up on SSRI'S.



I have a question for you. But first let me describe a bit for you and for anyone else who is interested what my testosterone background is.

My endocrinologist thinks there are two unusual factors at play in me. FIRSTLY I vary in testosterone levels more than average throughout the day. The highest levels are in the morning (I am low-normal at that time) and he suggests that by late afternoon I am lower than most men. SECONDLY I convert excess testosterone to estrogen very easily. So any supplementary testosterone turns into estrogen and we can blocking this conversion with Arimidex and/or Tamoxifen.

>>>>For people who don't know.Tamoxifen(nolvadex) is an anti-estrogen that binds to estrogen sites.It blocks estrogen at the receprtor site.
Arimidex is an Aromatase inhibitor which prevents testosterone from being converted into estrogen.
Generally arimidex is better than Nolvadex because it actually stops estrogen while Nolvadex only blocks at receptor site.Femara which is new was shown to be 10x more potent than arimidex in vitro.I will post a link of the study so you can check it out.Something to consider???



We also check for SHBG in case there is too much of it mopping up the testosterone but SHBG levels are normal.

>>>>SHBG is Sex Hormone binding globulin.It is a carrier protein for androgens.In normal men it goes like this:
2% Testosterone is free(unbound to carrier proteins)
54% is bound to Albumin and other proteins
44% is bound to SHBG(synthesized by the liver)

>>>Usually athletes like to get rid of SHBG to have more free tesosterone.

The actual cause of my low testosterone is partly linked to the excess estrogen because the estrogen is causing my body to think I have enough testosterone and so my body does not call for more.In endocrinological terms my LH and FSH levels are low indicating that my body does not want more testosterone to be produced.

>>>>LH is luteining hormone which stimulates leydig's cells of the testicles to produce testosterone.FSH is follicle stimulating hormone which stimulates follicles and is also critical for sperm count.

I have taken testosterone by patches (bad allergic reaction), by injection (Primoteston = testosterone enanthate) and by implant (probably still not available in the US). All delivery systems are "messy" and inconvenient. The best was probably the implant but it involves a deep deposit of material every six months and the sutures need time to heal.

>>>>>I had no problems with injections whatsoever.
Have you tried Omnadren,Sustanon or Testex Elmu(test cypionate) I have heard good reports with these


I saw my endocrinologist a few weeks ago and was hoping that Arimidex (probably without the Tamoxifen) would be enough to prevent the natural levels of my testosterone converting to estrogen. i can probably get to about the 60th percentile of the normal reference range (i.i.e.. just a bit below average).

>>>>Have you tried adding clomid(clomiphene citrate)? It is used at the end of a cycle to bring natural test levels back to normal.It is a synthetic estrogen that acts as a anti-estrogen.It binds to estrogen receptors and it will cause your LH and FSH to rise as a result it might bring your levels to normal.Have you tried HCG-Human chorionic gonadtropin-? This is used to trick your body into thinking it's getting LH.Also look into Femara.


However he suggested we try either Nandrolone (Deca-Durobolin) or testosterone gel. I went for the gel because the Nandrolone involved injections and I find them a bit awkward - and the testosterone peaks and then drops too much with injections.

>>>>Here is my take on nandrolone....
It is a mild steroid that is a modified version of 19-nortestosterone.The Deca is a long chain ester which means it lasts in your body a long time to keep steady levels.It is the least androgenic steroid in nature of most steroids,often to the point it interferes with libido.It has high anabolic properties.Anabolic=increases protein synthesis in muscles.Androgenic=Maleness i.e.libido,aggresion,male pattern baldness. Most people use DEca for its muscle building properties.Although it does aromatize it does so at a slow rate.In fact its probably the least estrogenic of all steroids capable of aromatizing.One trait(downfall) is that is strongly supresses HPTA or hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis.HPTA is responsible for regulating the output of testosterone in your body.At the top of the axis is the hypothalamic region of your brain,which releases a hormone called gonadotrophin releasing hormone or GNRH.Gnrh stimulates the pituitary to release LH-luteining hormone and FSH.Both hormones but primarily LH stimulate the leydig's cells in the testicles to secrete Testosterone.The primary hormone involved in supressing the over secretion of test is Estradiol,which is the aromatized by product of Test.High Estrogen Levels serve as a signal to the hypothalamus to slow the release of GNRH and also desensitize the pituitary to this hormone that trickles down to the testes receiving less stimulation via LH.In additions,Androgens and Progestins can also cause supresion of LH and test output via the same target sites.Nandrolone can suppress endogenous(natural) test production through a different mechanism,one that exists outside the normal suppression of gonadotropic hormones.
There was a study in the Netherlands done on 11 males given Deca over 12 weeks.The total dosage was only 450 mgs.this was sufficent enough to suppress test production throughout the course of therapy.In fact,their test remained below pre-treated levels 3 months after the last injection after the study was concluded.So you can only guess how long ful HPTA recovery actually took.In this study Nandrolone Decanonate strongly supressed test production but no impact on serum LH.Supprresion was not caused at the top of the axis,with a lowering LH,as would have been expected.There is also one trait uncommon among steroids(only Trenbolone and Anadrol) in that it exhibits measurable progesterone activity.It converts to progesterone at doses above 400 mgs.This maybe why deca has it's effect on HPTA and libido.
Wow,Im rambling basically in basic terms use of Deca is usually used by athletes to promote muscle.It is usually stacked with a Testosterone ester to combat libido problems AKA Deca-dick.And since it suppresses HPTA your testicles will shrink really bad.One other reason athletes use this is because they notice a joint soothing effect.Deca stores water in connective tissues and blocks cortisone receptors,this in turn leaves a person with a temporary ease or even cure existing joint pain.It isnt very toxic at all.One interesting note...At UCLA they did a study on rats and found Deca alters brain chemistry leading to increased norepinephrine and serotonin levels.
Damn that was long winded lol!!!



Here are my questions.

(1) Do you think the Nandrolone would have been a good option for me? My endocrinologist said it was a good form of testosterone because it didn't convert easily.

>>>>I dont think so since its highly Anabolic and shuts down HPTA and can convert to progesterone.

(2) Dose Nandrolone have any more medical problems with it than testosterone does?

It has hardly any side effects,its not liver toxic,and most users only complain of "bloating"
due to progesterone



(3) How frequently would one have to take Nandrolone?

>>>> Since I am militant I dont know of clinical uses.Doses start at 200-600 mgs.a week.

Remember that I am only interested in mood improvement. I am not interested in bigger muscles. The extra sex drive would be nice but that is not my motive.

I would welcome any comments from you or anyone else who can advise. Please feel free to contact me via email if y


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poster:john Henry thread:246093
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030728/msgs/246705.html