Posted by Larry Hoover on April 14, 2003, at 8:21:51
In reply to Re: Xyrem comments, posted by btnd on April 13, 2003, at 18:52:29
> > > Of course it's not for everyone. Your mileage may vary. I gave you my person experience.
> >
> > "The patient required 507 mg of lorazepam and 120 mg of diazepam over 90 h to control agitation." is an example of another, very real, person's experience.
>
> But this person was using GHB (I will call it "Xyrem" from now on since Dr.Bob doesn't like non-FDA treatments :) non-stop, 24/7. No wonder he had psychological problems. But Xyrem is not physically addictive until you start to use it "round-the-clock". He could also have an addictive-type personality or was self-medicating himself inappropriately. If it wouldn't be Xyrem, he could also be using something else.Your argument is fine, until you manufacture the straw-man argument that the subject himself is responsible. The drug has characteristics which may lead a susceptible individual into problems. That needed saying....the drug has certain characteristics which are prerequisites for addiction.
The reason I was so taken by this account is that I have never heard of anyone requiring such massive amounts of sedation. Those doses are huge, and unprecedented, to my knowledge.
> > I have taken pains to find the most balanced and complete information about GHB, and posted it in the first message I put into this thread. That is not propaganda, or biased information. Negative connotations are not evidence for either characteristic.
>
> With all due respect Larry, it wasn't "balanced" information - you cited anti-Xyrem facts.I must disagree. The first posting I made to this thread was an examination of the pharmacology of GHB. It very closely matches the standard information provided in monographs found in the Physicians' Drug Reference, and reproduced at www.rxlist.com. By far, the bulk of this information is dedicated to physiological effects, adverse effects and interactions, overdose and treatment thereof, effects in special populations. The article I presented was as close to that model as I could find. Compare it to other monographs, and see for yourself. As I said, this is a big part of *informed* consent.
>There are 2 sides: pro-Xyrem and anti-Xyrem. They both deliver exaggerated information.
I do not believe that the information I posted was exaggerated in any way, or I would not have posted it at all. I didn't, for example, post a link to GHBkills.com
>The truth lies in between - Xyrem used in a RESPONSIBLE way can be a good tool against anxiety/insomnia/depression. It is a valuable medicine, but with cautious use - the moment you start to abuse it - the problems arise.
Which is what I have stated myself.
Here's my rationale. Because the withdrawal syndrome (and arguably, the after-effects of the drug) closely matches the presenting symptoms of depression and anxiety, there is a very real risk that the initial stages of tolerance and dependency will be mistaken for the persistence of the presenting symptoms. Because the drug itself has characteristics which lend itself to the development of addiction, a reasonable warning about that risk *must* be presented to anyone considering using the drug. Internet sellers of GHB do not do that.
> Anti-Xyrem sites show experiences of actual addicts who were totally ABUSING the substance.Some good (although rather pro-Xyrem) information to balance out your post :) can be found at: http://www.ceri.com - Special menus - GHB.
I went through the site, and I didn't find much of practical use. Perhaps you could enlighten me, if I've missed something? What I found was that some states have GHB listed as a schedule 1 drug, which means it has no legal use in those states, period. Simply possessing it is therefore a felony.
> > That's quite an inappropriate argument to make. You're comparing the "proper" use of illegal drugs to all usage of alcohol. Alcohol in moderation is beneficial to your health. Moderate use of alcohol is the only "proper" use.
> >
>
> It is exactly the same way with Xyrem. In moderation/properly used - it is beneficial for health.
>
>
> BradI have not once disagreed with that (though I can see where you'd think I had). The issue is the adherence to proper use.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:218347
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030411/msgs/219172.html