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ELIZABETH - Ambien: Sleep Architecture and Dose » Elizabeth

Posted by fachad on April 11, 2002, at 20:09:21

In reply to Re: Is Ambien a Benzodiazapine? » fachad, posted by Elizabeth on April 11, 2002, at 10:59:38

Elizabeth wrote: "It (Ambien) is more innocuous. It doesn't cause the type of sleep architecture changes seen with benzodiazepines..."

Are you sure about that? I'd heard that before, but I wasn't sure if it was really true or if it came from Searle and was just marketing hype.

Also, do you take your 20mg all before bed, or 10 at bedtime and 10 in the middle of the night? I'm just wondering if 20mg lasts longer than 10mg or if you just need more because of high natural tolerance.

At this point, I wouldn't mind paying for Ambien if it lasted all night and if it didn't mess up my sleep architecture.

> > I think Ambien IS a benzodiazepine.
> >
> > The whole argument turns on semantics and your definition of what is or is not a benzodiazepine.
>
> Ambien isn't a benzodiazepine. "Benzodiazepines" are chemicals that have a certain core chemical structure. "Benzo" refers to the benzene ring. The "diazepine" ring has seven-atoms, with nitrogens at the 1 and 4 positions, and one double bond. These two rings share a bond; benzos also have a second benzene ring (it's called the "pendant ring" because when you draw a 2D representation of the molecule, it appears to be "hanging from" the diazepine ring) which doesn't share any bonds with the others. There are some other features, but the point is, Ambien doesn't share the benzodiazepine structure -- in other words, it's not a benzodiazepine. \
>
> Like SLS says, Ambien *is* a type 1 benzodiazepine *receptor agonist*. Receptors are often named for the first agonist that is found; for example, the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor is named for nicotine, which is an agonist at this receptor. The benzodiazepine receptor is named after benzodiazepines. Just as not all nicotinic receptor agonists are nicotine, so not all benzodiazepine receptor agonists are benzodiazepines.
>
> > So, from the standpoint of a chemist Ambien is not a benzodiazepine, but from the standpoint of a patient's nervous system it is a benzodiazepine.
>
> Even then, it's not. At prescribed doses, its action is almost exclusively confined to one of the subtypes of benzodiazepine receptors (type 1).
>
> > It is particularly annoying to me that the marketing folks at Searle have leveraged this little word game to make Ambien seem more innocuous to prescribing physicians and sleep disturbed consumers.
>
> It is more innocuous. It doesn't cause the type of sleep architecture changes seen with benzodiazepines, tolerance is relatively infrequent, and withdrawal symptoms are typically mild.
>
> > Postscript: The motivation for this venting is twofold. First, I'm sore that they charge so much for Ambien.
>
> That makes two of us (well, a lot more).
>
> > Second, I had SEVERE rebound insomnia when I tried to switch from Ambien to a generic benzo.
>
> Some people get that (although it's the exception, not the rule). Take it as a sign that Ambien is *not* identical to the benzos!
>
> -elizabeth


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