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Re: Does Lamictal 'blunt' effects of Dex - 3beer Zo

Posted by JohnX2 on April 5, 2002, at 9:41:58

In reply to Does Lamictal 'blunt' effects of Dex - 3beer Zo, posted by Bekka H. on April 5, 2002, at 1:02:34

(SWAG) Perhaps lamictal may raise the dexedrine dose required to feel the effect but lowers the potential to develop tolerance? This was my experience when I added Klonopin to Adderall (needed more Adderall, but smoother ride and less tolerance).


> Hi to 3 Beers and Zo,
> Zo, it's good to have you back. 3 Beers, I have also been trying to combine Dex with Lamictal, but I am having the opposite problem -- sort of. I've had a lot of insomnia from Lamictal, and actually, once I added the Lamictal, I was able to "manage" on a much lower dose of Dex. (Constrast that with my attempts to combine Dex with an SSRI. . .In those instances, I kept having to raise the Dex dose to counteract the SSRI). Unfortunately, for the time being, I've had to put Lamictal on the back burner due to severe insomnia that lasted for four days after I stopped the Lamictal. I do intend to try it again, but I'm going to get ahold of the tiny 2 mg and 5 mg tablets. I know the titration will take an eternity, but I want to give it a chance.
> Anyway, Zo, NO, dextrostat is NOT desoxyn! Dextrostat is SORT OF a generic version of Dexedrine. 3 Beers says it's not generic, but I think it is because when my doctor forgets to write "dispense as written" in that little box on the rx form, the pharmacist says he has to give me the generic, and the generic he dispenses is Dextrostat. Now, in my experience, Dextrostat doesn't feel as effective for me as the proprietary (name brand) Dexedrine. It feels as if it washes out faster, I experience rebound sooner, and it doesn't feel as potent or intense as Dexedrine tablets, but that's just me. I know some people who feel as if they are identical. For me, the Dextrostat feels as short-lived as Ritalin immediate release, and that's pretty short!
> 3 Beers, I have not heard that Lamictal counteracts Dexedrine. If anything, I have heard the opposite. A number of posters have said that taking Lamictal seems to delay stimulant tolerance, in much the same way that Memantine, that NMDA antagonist, does. Unfortunately, as I said, I haven't been able to experience this first hand because Lamictal has given me severe sleep problems, so I haven't been able to sustain it long enough to come to any conclusions.
> 3 Beers, do you eat enough? I have absolutely no idea how long it takes for the body to start generating ketones if one is not eating, but I've read that if one is in ketosis (which happens during starvation and semi-starvation), the urine will become highly acidic, and the amphetamines will be almost useless. I have never experienced this because I like to eat too much. I do try to take my Dex dose one hour before or two hours after a meal and, except for my morning dose (when I haven't eaten since the night before), I can't say that I'm ever in a state of starvation.
> I would also like to find out HOW acidic the acidic foods are. Obviously, citrus fruits are acidic, a lot of other fruit juices are acidic, etc., but I have yet to find out how acidic things like coffee and coca cola are. I know coca cola and a lot of other sodas have phosphoric acid in them. For me personally, it would be almost impossible not to eat acidic foods throughout the day, and I think I'd drive myself nuts trying to figure out the pH of every morsel I ingest, so for now, I just avoid fruit juices and vitamin C until shortly before I go to bed.
> As for the 20 mg Ritalin = 10 mg Dex theory, I started out on Dex and then went to Ritalin when I was trying to lose my tolerance to Dex. I was never able to take a high enough dose of methylphenidate (i.e., never able to take the number of mg that would have been the equivalent of the number of mg of Dex I was taking). Who knows? Maybe that was the problem. Maybe that's why I didn't find MPH (methylphenidate) that effective, but I just couldn't tolerate more.
> 3 Beers, I wonder whether your Klonopin might be interfering with the Dex? Do you feel kind of groggy in the morning? I'm not an M.D., so I shouldn't suggest this, but what if you took a tiny bit less Klonopin and raised the Dex by a few milligrams? Is it possible that the Lamictal is potentiating the Klonopin? Do you think you could get by on less Klonopin, now that you're escalating Lamictal at regular intervals? If so, I would NOT stop Klonopin abruptly or taper it drastically, but maybe you can experiment a bit with changing the proportions?
> If you're combining caffeine with Dex, just be careful with your heart rate and blood pressure. I drink much less coffee than I used to, but I need a little just to reach consciousness in the morning, and I usually have a little bit of caffeinated soda in the afternoon, around 4 p.m.
> By the way, a very useful book to get is PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS by Norman Keltner and David Folks. There is a lot of information on amphetamines and what causes and/or exacerbates tolerance and rebound.
> One last suggestion for tonight. Have you communicated with another PB member named Hattree? She is another one who has successfully combined Lamictal and Dexedrine, so perhaps she could give you some ideas?
> Bekka




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